[ADVICE] lactation cookies and fenugreek tea ...

Hi there,

I'm trying to increase my milk supply ... since having surgery, my supply just seems to be getting lower than lower, and I really want to be able to keep exclusively breastfeeding for another 2 weeks, to get DS up to 6 months :pray:

We've made some of those lactation cookies, and got some fenugreek tea (I assume it's more easily absorbed in tea than in capsules?? not sure...?)

how many cookies and how much tea does it take to work?

I haven't noticed any difference yet ... how long does it take?

all advice appreciated :D

thannks!!

Start slow and increase slowly. I found the capsules worked quicker than the tea - still noticed the increase with tea but not as sudden. Drink plenty of water too. Good luck

I used the capsules - 2 three times a day - and they worked within about 24 hours. You can also take blessed thistle which will help with your supply also. Sometimes fenugreek only helps with let down.

With the cookies eat as many as you want :) they are YUM!

You need to eat the cookies and sip the tea....whilst feeding your baby! The cookies and tea distract you while your baby kick starts your supply by feeding more often. So, tell us about the surgery? What makes you think you don't have enough milk? How many times are you feeding in 24 hours?
Separation from mum can be a very anxious time for babies - and they often react (when they get back with mum) by feeding ALL the time - if her nipple is in their mouth they know she's staying right with them. Mums interpret this as hunger - but not necessarily so.
So, pull up the chair, get out the cookies, put the kettle on and feed your baby - frequently. The more you feed the more milk you make.

thanks, ladies :)

barb - the surgery was correction of a recto-vaginal fistula. I was under general anaesthetic, and the whole ordeal was very upsetting, and my milk supply just hasn't been the same since.

I work full time, and our routine is that I bf and also express before work (around 6.30am) and then I express twice at work (around 11am and 3pm) while DS is at home, and DH feeds him EBM (around 280ml per feed). I then get home, and bf again around 7pm, and express, and then express again before bed (between 10-11pm).

Despite all that expressing, I generally have not been expressing tghe 560ml per day needed to cover DS's two daytime feeds.

DS is putting on weight - not as much as we'd like, but the MHCN isn't concerned. He's around the 50th centile for height and head circumference but is around the 30-35th centile for weight. But that was before we increased his daytime feeds from 250ml to 280ml. We increased those feeds, because DH felt that DS was satisfied but not full from the feeds ...

As for his feeding in general, DS has been a 4 hour routine baby since his arrival, and started sleeping through his 3am feeds from around 6 weeks, and stopped needing his 11pm feeds from around 3 months. But the other feeds increased - previously he'd feed from one breast in the morning and I'd express the other (usually would get around 240ml) but now he drains both - a combination of there being less there, and him having larger feeds.

I'm confident that he gets enough milk all up, because he sleeps so wonderfully well, and is happy for most of the day. But we're almost all out of our frozen supplies of breastmilk - I worked really hard to have lots stored up before the surgery, and had about 4L in frozen bags, but we only have about 400ml left, and some days I'm only able to express 300ml over the whole day ...

It's all pretty depressing, I really want to be able to get him as much milk as possible, but there's just not enough hours in the day to express any more ...

DS sleeps from around 7.30pm until 6.30am, so the only way to get him to feed from me more would be to wake him up ... we tried that a few times (to do it as a dream feed - lights off, minimal interaction, etc) but it didn't go very well, and just made him sleep fitfully for the rest of the night.

But I'm open to your suggestions :)

Argh, how frustrating. It really sounds like it's more of an expressing problem than a supply problem per se.
could you try a different pump maybe...?

Hi,

You've had a tough time of it - such a lot going on. You have done and an amazing job providing all that milk for your little one. He is growing fine. It's normal to be on different percentiles for height and weight, and normal to cross percentiles. Do you still expres on weekends? It's normal that babies go from wanting just one breast when they are smaller to wanting two. some people find keeping up their normal expressing regime even if they are at home (plus BF on demand ) helps get the amount of milk needed. Another idea might be to ad another quick express into your work day.
I went back to work fulltime myself when my baby was 6 weeks old - it can be hard at time - you are doing an amazing job

marcellus - I see your point, but don't think it's the pump, because before the op I'd often be able to express 300+ml per pumping session! after the op, 200, then 180, then 140, now it's often only 100-120 ... sometimes less :( And I wsas expressing at work for two months before the op, and the supply/demand volumes were going really well ...

barb - thanks for the encouragement :) I've wondered about speaking to work about negotiating a third express in there ... maybe that will be the next step, but I have no idea how that would work because it's hard enough getting work done and doing two pumps! ... on the weekends, I bf all his feeds, and often have to do at least one or two extra feeds or top ups with EBM because he's often still hungry after the during the day feeds. And I express a lot too - I don't get much, but the stimulation hopefully helps, and besides, even if it's only 20ml three times accross the day, at least that's 60ml I didn't have before!

anyway, have just expressed and am about to feed my little man and drink some more stinky tea :)

any more ideas welcome!

You could give accupuncture a try? It worked brilliantly for my supply, and if the issue is caused by your body not having recovered properly from the surgery I think it'd be likely to help.


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Could you take a little time off work and just have mummy baby time. Just a few days. So you could have the weekend and 2-3 days extra. Stay with him all day, feed him as often as you can and relax a little. Don't go out don't do anything other than be with your DS. Have a bath with him, have a nap with him let him have bf's as often as he will...that always helped with my supply when I had a few days off, by the time I went back to work, my boobs were so full and I could always express more!

The catch with expressing at work is that it probably won't work so well if your'e stressing about getting back to work... An extra session might help, though. Is there any way to be more flexible with work? What sort of pump do you have? It could still be worth hiring a different one and just seeing if it makes any difference...?

You are doing a great job - it's tough combining all these things

I've been using the Avent electric pump - it's a gem! As I said, before the op I was able to pump a cup full of milk in 10-20 minutes without breaking a sweat. Now, I express by hand to get started, pump and squeeze and massage and use hot towells and look at pictures of Josh and press the ducts and do anything else I can to get 100+ml over 40 minutes... :(

While work is great about everything (making sure I have a private room, understanding that I've had extra Drs appointments and need time off, not complaining when I'm late in, etc) it would be really difficult realistically to get another pump in ... by the time I've got my stuff, gone to the room, got set up, had a drink, pumped, cleaned the pump, dried the pump, got back to my office and got back to work it's an hour. Twice a day. And in my work, I have meetings, appointments out of the office, lectures, etc, and it's hard enough doing it twice per day ...

That sounds like a bit of a whinge - please don't misunderstand me, I completely understood going in that this is what it would be like, and I am happy to do it, to get my little boy his milk. I just would love him to be able to get enough! At least for another two weeks ... then we can start supplementing his diet with some solids (I know it doesn't happen in the first 5 minutes :) ) and I might be less stressed.

It's just been upsetting to be going through all this post birth physical stuff and the op and everything, and now having it making my supply decrease so badly.

The cookies and fenugreek don't seem to be kicking in yet - I was only able to express 130ml and 120mls at today's 2 daytime sessions ... grrr ... the only difference so far is very bright pee!

DH is picking up some of the fenugreek capsules... FX they help!!

But it's almost the weekend, and I'll jest spend as much time as possible bf DS ... I'm thinking about lililas' comments, and maybe I'll spend Saturday in bed with DS, just playing and feeding and napping ...

A day in bed might be nice anyway!
One thought - do you ahve a frideg there for your expressed milk? You could pop a plastic baggy over the pump thingy and just stick it in the fridge between pumps...? You don't really need to clean it each time.
ANyway, I hope taht one way or another this all becomes less stressful for you.

I use the fridge in the staff kitchen ... along with all the other employees on the floor!

but thanks for the idea :)

Ah, thought it might save you some time.
Well, the only other thing I was going to say was try not to get too hung up on dates and deadlines. You've done fantastically to exclusively breastfeed this long! It's ok if you change plans on how and when to supplement from here :hug:

thanks, marcellus !

Hey Peanutter, I have been meaning to reply to your PM but been so busy sorry. I seriously came on here to ask the exact same question as you did when you started this thread. How long do the cookies and Fenugreek take to work?? I also am experiencing supply drop and it's driving me crazy. I am still getting about 120mls each work time express but DD has upped her needs to 720mls. *sigh* I am getting about 620mls on a good day. So started the tablets and cookies. Can you let me know if you think the tea works? The tablets say 1 tablet twice a day with food but I am going to up the ante for a bit. I might also try the blessed thistle. Will let you know if I come across any magical solution. Hugs for you and seriously, you are doing so awesome. This bf/expressing thing is HARD! :)

Heya, starangelk ... unfortunately, it's not doing anything much yet!!

The cookies and tea didn't do anything much so I've also been having fenugreek capsules. They say on mine to take 2 pills 3 times per day, and each pill has 529mg of seed powder.

And a girl from my mother's group takes 15 per day!!

I'm hoping they just take a few days to kick in, because otherwise, they just don't work on me... :(

Over the weekend, I've just been pumping as often as possible, but some times I've only been able to get 10ml ... but over the day, that's still 60ml I didn't have before, I guess :)

It is hard - but you're doing super !

15 per day!!!!

I am taking Herbs of Gold - they have 1.5gms.............a bit more if you wanted to try them? Also did a google search and apparently Fennel Tea is helpful too. I might go get some of this tomorrow.

starangelk - any noticable difference?

I've found that my BBs feel bigger, but that there isn't any more milk yet ... I'm up to 10 fenugreek tablets per day.

I've also hears that you can mix the active ingredients of the lactation cookies and just drink it (the brewer's yeast and flaxseed stuff) to make it work quicker. Might try that too.

Good luck!

Hey Peanutter - great minds! I just logged on to see how you were going. I am taking 5 tablets a day and trying to get an extra mini express in during the day. My bb's are definately bigger but I think DD is just drinking all the extra milk!! Usually I express before bed and she wasn't feeding for long in the evenings but now my bb's are fuller, she seems to be staying on for longer and drinking more. So not so much luck in the getting more milk for the next day situation.

I was thinking about you this morning..........have you considered buying a hand pump for your 3rd express? That way you could just do a mini express and give it a rinse instead of a full wash and maybe save time that way.......just a suggestion.

If you try the brewers yeast/flaxeed mix - let me know what it's like.........I am still eating the biscuits but seriously, the sugar in them is killing me so I might try that too.

I also got DH to get me some fennel tea, apparently that's supposed to help? He just got it today so I might try a cup tonight after dinner and see if I get any more at my last express.

If I don't see any noticeable difference by the end of the week I might give the LC a call and see if she has any further suggestions.

Xx

DH just had DS weighed, and he's LOST weight. 80gm.

Formula it is I think.

Oh Peanutter.............hugs babe. Don't lose hope - if you don't want to give formula then don't do it. Stick with the BFing. I can totally understand you must be feeling so disappointed considering how hard the whole expressing and keeping the milk up thing is. I'll PM you.

Honestly - at this stage he doesn't need formula - he just needs food. He is 1 wk off 6mnths.
You have done such a great job. If he is happy and healthy he doesn't need to be weighed - it just doesn't matter very much. You have done a fabulous job feeding him so well - time to start solids.
BTW - lactation cookies really....just....don't .....work.. There are really no active ingredients.

Like everyone's already said, you're doing brilliantly.
Maybe even just a small amount of high-calorie food will give him the little extra to fill the gap.

No active ingredients in the lactation cookies? I am so glad to read that, thanks so much Barb. I am going to stop eating them because I feel sick every time I have one.

thanks for the advice.

we tried a little banana and a little potato.

I'm thinking a bit of meat, avacado, cheese, pasta ... I know he won't really eat much at all, but those sorts of thing make more sense than starting with puffed rice and pear, in terms of calories...

still feeling down and upset, but a lot more at peace.

no more tears.

I've decided that when you put it in perspective, 6 months would have been 185 days, and we've made it 175 days. That's 95% - pretty good, in a lot of ways.

Am deciding that I will turn the page at midnight, and just enjoy this next step - solids!

:hug: Peanutter - you have done an amazing job! 95 is a HD in anyone's language :)

You have done a superhuman effort under circumstances where most people would have crumbled and you have come out the other end with a happy healthy bub.

Don't fret too much about his weight - remember that he would take in more than 80g at any feed and loose more than that on any wee or poo so depending on his last feed/poo/wee etc he could have actually put on weight but it doesn't show because he was slightly emptier this time than last time. And remember that he is more active now than he has ever been before so that burns calories as well.

I probably wouldn't go onto the more full on foods first - and stick with the more regular ones just for a few days or weeks because it takes a while for their little guts to develop the ability to digest new things so I'm not sure of the benefit of hitting with things like meat first because he probably won't actually get any benefit from them. A couple of weeks ramping up to the more intense ones won't make much difference to his actual calorie intake because if he is anything like DD the first week or more is learning how to use his tongue differently and having his little mind blown by this new experience rather than actually ingesting anything that is put in his mouth.

Solids is such an exciting adventure - we started DD a few weeks ago and my kitchen floor will never be the same but it is just so much fun deciding what new thing to introduce every day and discovering that this little creature that is DD has very defined preferences as to what she likes (and I am very glad that her favorite so far seems to be broccoli!)

Have fun

Hi Peanutter-
This has nothing to do with lactation...but...
I just want to say your the first person I have come across that has had a recto-vaginal fistula...like me. I had one with my first dd and found the whole process quite disturbing. It took me 5 months to convince the gyn that something was wrong with my vjj! I wonder how common this type of fistula is?

Hi con - you're the first person I've "met" with one too :) not a fun club to be in, eh?

I don't know statistically how common they are, but they're common enough that the surgeon who did my op does them reasonably regularly, but rare enough that only one of the midwives I saw had heard of them before (and she knew about them because she had an interest in pregnancy and birth in developing nations, where they're a lot more common due to severe lack of medical assistance).

not sure if that answers your question... but I hope your fistula has been repaired, and is all healed up now :hug:

and thanks for the tips, muppity! you're a star :)

starangelk - the fenugreek seems to be helping :) not loads, but a bit. I might be getting an extra 100ml per day, over the 5 pumps?

not loads, but enough to be worth taking!!

hope you're doing ok :hug:

The fenugreek seems to be working here too Peanutter - in about the same way! 100mls over the 5 pumps but that's all the extra I was looking for anyway :) Totally worth the $$$ outlay. So things this end are going great...........been thinking of you lots. Really glad to hear the fenugreek is working. Xx