'Parent volunteer' - Working with Children check??

I am wondering if anyone knows about the requirements for a 'Working with Children' check for parents who volunteer in primary school classrooms?

My son is in Prep next year and there is a requirement for an aide in the room as one of the children has high level special needs. As there is inadequate funding for the aide for all the hours one is required (the child requires a full-time aide) the current plan is to utilise a 'parent volunteer' for approximately 16 hours per week. The parent who has mentioned that she would be willing to assist is from a different year level. She has only been a part of the school community for 5 weeks and has just moved here from overseas. If an additional staff resource is required in the classroom, I am unhappy that a parent (who is untrained, unqualified and has no experience) will replace a qualified and experienced aide. The mother of the child who requires the aide has stated that this parent does not require an background check as she will be in the classroom under the supervision of the teacher?

I have tried to word this post carefully - I want to make it clear that I do not have any problem with the child being in my son's class (she has been in his kinder class for the past year). My issue is with an appropriate aide not being provided and an unknown, untrained 'volunteer' being used instead (and without any background check!).

Any advice would be appreciated.

I just had to do my working with children check as i am voulenteering at my daughters school i have the forms in front of me right now by law to voulenteer in a primary school you DO need a working with children check that will check your criminal record for major crimes and sex offences but im not sure if it checks records from overseas or just offences commited within this country

I'm not sure which state you are in, but I know in Vic all parent volunteers need a working with children check. It is worrying though that a qualified aide is being replaced by a parent who, as experienced as she may be with children, may not have appropriate training with a special needs child. I would be concerned too incase the lack of adequate support results in disruption, or lack of attention, for the rest of the class. Perhaps you should raise this with the school principal before the year starts and see if they are able to reassure you?

That's a good point Mrs S, when I got the application for a working with childrens check, there was nowhere that checked for a criminal record from Scotland. So whilst this parent will have a check it will only be for Australian issues.

Heys nickle,

I am not sure what state you're in, but this is from the victorian government:

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Working with Children Check
In 2006, the Victorian Government introduced a new checking system to help protect children under 18 years of age from physical or sexual harm.

The Working with Children (WWC) Check creates a mandatory minimum checking standard across Victoria. The WWC Check helps to keep children safe by preventing those who pose a risk to the safety of children from working with them, in either paid or volunteer work.

If you work or volunteer with children you may need to apply for a WWC Check. Employers, volunteer organisations and agencies must ensure that any of their staff or volunteers who need a WWC Check have applied.

Everybody who requires a WWC Check must have a WWC Check or have applied for one by 30 June 2011.

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From this, I would take it that the decision as to whether or not the aide requires a WWC check is not that for the mother of the child to decide, as you have so very correctly stated, there are more than just her child in the room.

Also found this which sorta agrees with the mother of the other child around the being directly supervised, but as she will be working regularly this is void:

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Who Needs to Apply
Under the Working with Children Act 2005, only people engaging in ‘child-related work’ must apply for and pass the Working with Children (WWC) Check. Not everyone whose work brings them into contact with children will need to apply for a WWC Check.

You need to apply for and pass the WWC Check if you meet all of the following criteria:

your work or volunteer role involves contact with children in connection with one of the 20 listed child-related occupational fields
you volunteer or do this work on a regular basis
you have direct contact with children under 18 years of age and are not directly supervised
you do not qualify for an exemption from the need for a WWC Check.

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Then there's this from the list of 20:

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Educational Institutions

Educational institutions for children, specifically:
• State Schools (including all primary, secondary, technical and special State schools)
• Non-Government schools (including all primary, secondary and special non-Government schools)
• TAFE colleges and TAFE Divisions of universities providing VCE and/or Victorian Certificate of Applied Learning (VCAL) subjects
• Some adult education providers providing VCE and/or VCAL subjects
• Other institutions providing children's study or training programs

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I would be talking with the teacher / principal and clarifying with them as opposed to the mother(s).

I would think that if a parent is working in the school on a regular basis they would need to have a working with children check. I have had parents come along with my class on school excursions as 1 off events, and we have a special stat dec type form they have to sign before they are allowed to attend.

As for the aide time, special needs students are allocated teacher assistant time based on their level of needs, it is VERY VERY VERY difficult to get full time teacher assitant time for a special need students, basically for a student to be allocated a full time assistant, they need to have such a severe disability that they need to be toileted and fed, as well as all of their other needs. I am not sure of the state you are in or the system (ie public, private) but I have recently completed an application for a teachers assistant for a student in my class, and it is a long and lengthy process, and I think (his assistant time was only granted after I started my maternity leave) he was only entitled to 0.6 or the equivalent of 3 days per weeek.

Looking at this from the perspective of being a teacher, It would be better to have a parent in the classroom to assist, than no one at all. A high special needs students who does not have an assistant, takes alot of time away from the learning of other students, it is unfortunate, but that is the way it is. So to have an extra pair of hands is invaluable, believe me I have been in many classrooms with special needs kids (although probably not as high level) and no assitant and it is hard work for everyone.

As a parent I too would like to know who was in the classroom with my children, however I would trust that the teacher would be in the room at all times- as the teacher is the one who has duty of care of the students. I would take any concerns you have to the principal, hopefully the parent who does take on the roll, gets some training or proffessional development to ensure they know what they are doing.

It depends on the state. In Qld, parents are OK, but grandparents, aunts and uncles need the check. Go figure.

I would be a little apprehensive about it also, but Ali makes some good points about the positives of it. And I guess that if I'd just moved to a new country a few weeks ago and wasn't in a routine yet, I could see how volunteering for that kind of role might help to settle in.

Suggest that the volunteer gets checks - if the person involved has nothing to hide, there won't be any issues.

We're in SA, our school requires *every volunteer* to have current police background clearance. Without it, no sausage sizzles, no reading, nothing. I don't know if that's legislated but that's the policy at our school.

I am in SA too, and same as Marydean. We can't even be on a council that runs after school without police clearance. Technically any parent that comes into the class to read to their own child in the mornings should have police clearance.

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Looking at this from the perspective of being a teacher, It would be better to have a parent in the classroom to assist, than no one at all. A high special needs students who does not have an assistant, takes alot of time away from the learning of other students, it is unfortunate, but that is the way it is. So to have an extra pair of hands is invaluable, believe me I have been in many classrooms with special needs kids (although probably not as high level) and no assitant and it is hard work for everyone.

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As a parent as a high needs child, currently going through the insane guidelines of funding, I can totally agree. There are many classroom aides at DS's school and each one is amazing in their understanding and generosity of spirit. I have found that many of these aides have special needs children themselves, have completed a short course (and police checks etc) to give back iykwim?

Do you know exactly how 'unqualified' this woman is? I TOTALLY understand your concerns - but it might just be a matter of her volunteering her time as she gets her quals. I would imagine she is attracted to this position because she would like to help kids.....and in a world that most parents can't spare the time to help in the classroom, ANY help is wonderful.

I think it would be a better idea that the school sends a letter home to the parents formally introducing this woman rather that just sticking her in the classroom and leaving you all to wonder!

OMG... I just typed a long response explaining a bit more about the situation and it has been lost!!! :cry:

Thank you all so much for your advice and information (Kazbah, how did you find that info so quickly?!). I am in Vic, so all relevant. The kids are at a private school which has previously offered an exceedingly generous funding policy for aides. The policy was not sustainable and has been changed as of next year, it is for this reason that the funding is not available for the aide for the hours required.

The parent who 'volunteered' has no experience with education or children (apart from her own!). The child has a full time aide this year (under the old funding policy) who is excellent and she does a good job of managing the child's behaviour which often is disruptive. Most of the kids seem to cope well with the disruptive behaviour although I am concerned that next year requires a lot more focussed learning and an untrained volunteer may not be able to adequately or appropriately deal with the situation. The child has a GDD and is not expected to learn the class curriculum (this is information from her mother, not my own expectations!) and her mother states that she will attend school for the social integration. The mother has stated that she therefore believes a volunteer will 'be fine' and a qualified aide is not required full time.

Having the child at the school has been an ongoing negotiation between the parents, the Head of Campus and the Principal. The principal believes that the school cannot adequately accommodate the child's level of needs. The HoC believes that as a caring community we should set the children a good example and do whatever necessary to accommodate a child who has additional needs. He has on several occasions 'bent the rules' to accommodate the child. I should clarify that I know all of this because both the parents of the child and the mother who has volunteered to assist have older children in my daughter's class. I am privvy to a lot more information than most of the other parents with children moving into prep next year. I have been aware of all the negotiations over the past couple of years between the school and the parents. The information given to me by the mother has in the past proven to be accurate. She has kept me well informed as she has tried to use me as a conduit to garner support amongst the parents of the class. I have tried to stay out of it as I feel it is not really appropriate for me to be involved unless my own child is directly affected.

When the mother informed me that the aide would be replaced by a 'parent volunteer' and told me that I needed to 'get all the other parents on side' (yes, really) I told her I thought it was not appropriate and questioned the legality of the plan. This is when she informed me that a WWC was not required. She also informed me that if 'anyone kicks up a fuss' and the volunteer is not allowed to replace the aide then the child will have to leave the school as the parents cannot afford to pay the aide for the additional hours. I want to do what I think is right for my own child, but I don't want to be the cause of another child leaving the school.

The mother has told me that the plan to use a volunteer has the full support of the HoC, although the principal has not yet been informed (the mother told me that we, being herself and the HoC, 'are going to try to slip this one past the bastard'). I don't feel I can discuss the issue with the HoC or the principal as the only information I currently have comes from the mother and not through official channels, but the year is almost over and if it is not dealt with soon then I fear it will be too late. There is also a part of me that simply doesn't want to become involved and I would feel terribly guilty if the outcome was that the child had to leave the school because I complained. But I really think that it is not ok to have a 'volunteer' in place of a qualified and experienced aide and I am horrified that the laws would be ignored in terms of a WWC check.

I'm sorry... it's long again! But it feels good to get it all out and written down! Thank you again for all your advice. Please keep it coming, even if it is to tell me that you disagree with me. (But be gentle, I'm hormonal and I cry easily right now...!)

ETA - Thanks for your response Lulu, I was typing when you posted. I would love to hear more from the perspective of a parent who has a child who requires and aide in the classroom. The parent who has volunteered to 'help out' (I'm not sure she knew what she was volunteering for!) has no experience or qualifications. Her own children do not have additional needs. How long is the course for a teaching aide, do you know? I did wonder if she could be given some training prior to be placed in the classroom. I agree, the issue needs to be formally addressed by the school, but I fear there might be a bit more 'rule bending' happening!

Every parent who does anything at our school has to do a Working with children check- even if its man a stall at the fete.
I agree with Ali- its very very hard to get a trained teachers aid even in a paid position- I have an untrained paid one 2 hours per week. It would be awesome to have one FT even untrained as they free up the teacher to help the rest of the class. I would be pleased if it was my child's class.

Ok - firstly I'm not an expert on the world so I'm just going to give you my experience and knowledge thus far.

1) - If you swapped roles with the mother of this child I can assure you that you would be fighting just as hard as she. I imagine that paying private school fees would maybe make this woman feel she should get her moneys worth (I know that probably sounds wrong I can expand if you need - but maybe tomorrow!)
2) I also bet the school started off with the best intentions in regard to funding aides - but the govt changes the goal posts on this sort of funding often. So at the start the school may have felt they could offer this but have been stuffed up a bit.
3) Private schools get 7 - 13% of aide funding, compared to what public schools get.
4) no matter how much funding any school gets it will never cover the expenses of an aide, no matter what level.
5) I hear the school when they say they cannot cater to this child - because they can't access the level of funding needed.


On the experience...as long as the person aiding the child understands them, it should be ok. Lots of times they just need distraction or a quiet place to regroup. I can't speak for everyone though :lol:

My son is the highest need level. YEP. But you wouldn't know it thanks to the aides at his school. He has plenty of friends, is a barrel of laughs and all the teachers love him to death. Proud mummy moment, I can't help it :lol: All he needs is time out when he might freak out.

I don't know the ins and outs but you seem very caught in the middle. Maybe you could let this mother know that in a different school her child would be funded for a full time aide....and there would be not so much need for the constant meetings and bunfights?

bbl - happy to clarify any points...in the morning!

Sounds like you are in a very difficult situation....doesn't it stink that in the 'education revolution' still we are having issues like these?


I was at our local state prep just this week, the children were using lovely pearlesent paint, and there was a lady volunteering who was the teacher there many year back - her comment was this is just about the last of this paint we bought when I was here, they don't get funding for such extravegences now that we are under the new prep system.....

i realise it is not relevant to this particular topic but in qld the direct parents do not need blue cards to volunteer but i don't know whether there is a max time limit of volunteering to meet this requirement

Thought this may interest you. The school and individuals involved may be up for some serious consequences if the WWC law is not followed. We were warned at work that we must have our card on us at all times as if there was an inspection or audit, we may be fined ourselves and the organisation may face penalties.

ORGANISATION PENALTIES
If a Working with Children (WWC) Check is required, you must not engage, or continue to engage, a person in ‘child-related work’ if the person does not have a current Assessment Notice. This does not apply to employees or volunteers who have validly applied for a WWC Check and the application has not been finally decided or to employees or volunteers who are exempt under the Working with Children Act 2005.
Penalty: Natural person: two years imprisonment, a fine of 240 penalty units* or both

As an agency, you must not offer the services of a person to undertake ‘child-related work’ if the person does not have a current Assessment Notice if one is required. This does not apply to people who have applied for a WWC Check and the application has not been finally decided or to people who are exempt under the Working with Children Act 2005.
Penalty: Natural person: two years imprisonment, a fine of 240 penalty units* or both

INDIVIDUALS
If you do not hold a current assessment notice, you must not undertake 'child-related work' unless:
- you are exempt under the Act
or
- your child-related occupational field has not yet been phased in or
- you have applied for a WWC Check and your application has not been finally decided.
Penalty:Two years imprisonment, a fine of 240 penalty units, or both

I didn't track down the info on 'penalty units' but I understand that it amounts to about a $12,000 fine. OUCH.
Given the application fee is only $77, I think it'd be well worth them getting it done.

As for experience and qualification... well, I think that comes down to the individual. Yes, of course training can be extremely useful, but I've come across some highly qualified aides and therapists that just don't 'get' the child or the needs of the situation, and some unqualified individuals that were just born to it, and were BRILLIANT.

Sounds like a tricky situation. All the best.

Thank you again for the info. A $12K fine or 2 years imprisonment? Yep, I'd get that check done! It is concerning that there is no overseas check for non-Australian citizens, that doesn't seem right.

Lulu, the mother is aware that the funding is much better in the state system. She has told me that the state school system is funded by the state government and the private school system by the federal government? She has told me that the funding is far better in the state system, but I was not aware that the difference is quite so huge!! That just seems all shades of wrong... but that is a whole other can of worms! The mother has stated that she wants her younger child to be educated in the private system as that is the system that they have chosen for their elder daughter and it is more 'practical' for the younger daughter to be at the same school ie. one school pick up and drop off. The mother has also stated that she wants her children both in the same school because the elder daughter can then 'look out for' the younger daughter. I do get that, I expect my kids to look out for each other as well, but the expectations on the elder daughter are pretty high. Again, a totally different can of worms and really none of my business.

I hear what you are saying about fighting as hard as this mother is if my child had the needs that her child does. I have tried to imagine being in her position, but you can't truly walk in someone else's shoes. The mother can be aggressive and manipulative. I don't know whether she behaves that way because it is her personality or because she is dealing with a bloody hard situation. I try not to judge her behaviour and I think it is for the same reason that no one has complained when rules have been bent and policies ignored thus far. I have no desire to make life harder for this family.

I feel kind of scuzzy even saying it, but as you raised the issue of private school fees... my DH and I made the decision to educate our kids in the private system. We are fortunate to be able to afford it, although it is not without sacrifice. The school pays above award wages to it's staff in order to attract the 'best and brightest'. If an additional staff resource is required in the room, I expect the school to provide the 'best and brightest' available. It's one of the things we're paying for. The mother has always stated that the aide in the classroom is not for her child. She has said that the aide is to assist the classroom teacher with the entire class as that class presents a bigger workload for the teacher due to her child being a part of it. Semantics perhaps, but it is certainly true that the full time aide this year (it is a full time kinder program) works with all the children. She usually takes the child with additional needs and a small group of others and they work together under the aide's direction. It is not possible to integrate a child on their own! The children, being young, make no distinction between the aide and the other classroom teachers. They are all adults in a position of responsibility.

Given all of that, I do feel that I have some right to an opinion on whether it is appropriate to have a volunteer in the room to take the place of an aide. My child will deal directly with any adult in the room. If that adult is in a position of responsibility, I expect them to have some training and qualifications and I certainly expect that their background has been checked as required by law. The particular lady who has offered to assist seems nice enough (I've only known her a few weeks). When she interacts with the child (whilst waiting for the older siblings to finish school) SHE... TENDS... TO... SPEAK... VERY... LOUDLY... AND... SLOWLY... to her. From the brief time I have seen her with the child she is certainly caring and kind but doesn't appear to have any understanding or insight into the child's needs. Perhaps she would learn? I don't want my child to think that the appropriate way to speak to a person with an intellectual disability is to speak to them like the are deaf and dumb. It is so important that the aide sets the correct example in her own dealings with the child (and in correcting the behaviour of the other children toward her) and I don't know that someone without any training can be expected to do that.

I truly feel conflicted and unsure what to do. I think I might be hoping that you all convince me to do nothing! I certainly take it on board when poster's have said that having a volunteer is better than nothing. The thing is, if there is 'nothing' my understanding is that the child will have to leave the school. And that makes me feel terrible. But I think that all of the children, mine and the child with additional needs included, deserve better than a stop-gap halfway measure?

Keep the advice coming... I'm sorry it's long again, it's like I have two parts of my brain arguing with each other!

On the funding - it's given to the school to see fit to distribute. The mother is right on this one. I'm not sure if she is right about the state/federal funding - but I know I'm right about the % levels. I had to take DS out of his beautiful independent school (yep, paid a fair level of fees too) because they couldn't afford the aide and the little funding is also 5000 times harder to get in non-govt. I wasn't happy but it wasn't the schools fault. I felt pretty sad my educational choice was taken away. Worms worms worms!

Whoa on the SPEAKING VERY SLOWLY. It doesn't show much understanding but maybe she needs time to get to know the child (*cough - who talks to anyone like that though?). I wouldn't call that a good example for the other children either. I suppose I'm lucky that each and every aide that DS deals with is like some sort of mystic angel to me. Every, single one of them appear to understand is needs very quickly....but then again he has Aspergers and these kids are pretty much everywhere...in every single class in every single school in the universe.

It seems the school is bending over backwards to accomodate this woman...maybe due to her aggression who knows. I'm not sure what I would do myself. Do you think it will really negatively impact on the other students? It's far from a perfect situation, but if the school can't cater to her, they just can't. That won't be your call in the end though anyway. Although as a parent I feel you have the right to enquire about what's going on.

I have been a teacher in a special education unit and to be honest, most of it is learning on the job. I went in with very little experience with kids with disabilities and I learned while I was there from working with the kids, from the other staff and some training that I attended. Most of the teacher aides that I have worked with also start out with little to no experience but a keen interest to learn. I am not really sure that paying someone necessarily makes them qualified to work with kids with a disability. I did 4 years of teacher training and to be honest, still walked into my classroom on my first day and that is when the real learning began. The parent will have the teacher to support them and give advice and training and I think if she is willing, she could be a very valuable asset. My hat goes off to her a little bit, it can be quite an intense job and she is offering to do it for free.

I have read through your posts and I am trying to figure out what the biggest issue for you is because she is most likely going to get her working with children check approved and that is not going to be an issue - I don't really think that this is what you are actually concerned about (if I was to be completely honest :)). It sounds a bit to me like you don't want the parent in the classroom and you are trying to find excuses for her not to be there because you feel your child will be disadvantaged and you are paying for an education for your child to make sure they are not - I am not trying to be offensive in saying that, so please don't be offended. I am just trying to understand what it is you want out of this situation because unless you can articulate what it is that you want, it will be very hard for you to work out which solutions you will be satisfied with.

I think there are some things about that seem to be out of everyone's control - there is no funding for a full time teacher aide for this child and the school probably doesn't have the funds to provide it so alternative solutions need to worked out. I guess you could try putting yourself in the shoes of this child's parent and thinking about what you would want if it was your child and how you want the school to handle it.

From the perspective of the parent volunteer - if she has just moved here from overseas, the school community might be one of her only social outlets and she might just be trying to make herself a part of the community. Volunteer work is a great way to get involved. I thought that most people coming into our country were screened for criminal offenses before moving here so I would assume (maybe wrongly?) that she has a clean criminal record since she is allowed to be here in the first place.

Please don't take my post as judgemental. I am not trying to be harsh, I am trying to understand the issues for you. I kind of get the impression that even if her criminal history is clean, you still have a lot of other concerns and I am just trying to understand those. I think you are right to question what is happening - if you have concerns it is good to get answers but in many of these situtions it is about a good fit and it takes time to work out whether it is working for everyone. Even if the person was a paid, experienced person it doesn't necessarily mean they will gel will with the teacher, the classroom environment, the student with special needs and the other kids. I think it is one of those things where they have to give it a go and see how it works out. There are so many dynamics and variables, it is impossible to know.

That's my 2c anyway :)

JustMe, you are quite correct, I'm not entirely sure of my biggest issue either! Perhaps that's why my post's are so long and I feel like my brain is split in two!

I had not considered your point that the mother from overseas will have undergone a criminal history check as part of her visa application (I think so, anyway?). I agree, the school community is a great social outlet for someone who has recently moved here from overseas. I also admire her willingness to volunteer her time to assist although, as I previously stated, I'm not sure she knew what she was getting into in terms of the time commitment! I was present when she said 'Oh, I could help out' and the mother has run with it and now has her scheduled for several hours a day! Anyway, I assume that the mother who volunteered can speak up for herself if the commitment is too great.

Perhaps one of this issues is that we have been spoilt this year with a full time aide who is excellent. She is amazing with the child who has additional needs and also with all of the other children. The idea of losing this aide half time and replacing her with a volunteer who doesn't appear to have much insight into the child's needs is... disappointing. I guess I would like the school to cough up for the aide full time next year. But I understand why that is not viable. But then, that's where the fees come into it... we're all paying expensive fees, if the aide is required I expect the school to provide it. But I understand the funding is not available. And around and around it goes!!

I hear what you are saying about paying an aide not ensuring that they are the best person to fill the position and by even offering her time the volunteer has shown that she possesses both an interest and an empathy, which is a good place to start. But the way she deals with the child (loud and slow) concerns me. Whilst I recognise that she will have the classroom teacher available for guidance, the classroom teacher is not qualified in special education either. The school has never had a student before with such a high level of additional needs and I know from the mother of the child that many of the primary staff members have expressed concern at whether they are able to cater adequately to the child's needs. I fear it will be a case of the blind leading the blind.

If I am honest, my other issue is that I am tired of being manipulated by the mother of the child with additional needs. I have known her for three years and in that time I have nodded and smiled and tried to understand her motivation, although I don't think I can truly understand what it is like for her. When I questioned having an aide replaced with a volunteer her response was 'well, that's how it's gonna be, so you'll all just have to deal with it' (yes, this was her literal response, I believe word for word!). Part of me thinks 'no, my child and I have rights here too'... and part of me thinks 'bloody hell, this must be incredibly hard for you, I'm not going to make it any harder'. I am aware that my own motivation, if I do decide to act on this matter, shouldn't be that the mother pi**ed me off!!

I do honestly believe that my child will be affected. I assume that the volunteer, like the aide, will work with small groups including my child. It is important to me that the aide sets the correct example for my child. For the kids, there is no distinction between the aide and the teaching staff and if an adult will be in the classroom 'teaching' my child (as the aide does) I want to know that the adult knows what they are doing and they are qualified for the job! The aide takes the children and is not supervised by any other staff. I have always assumed that this is permissible and that direct supervision is not required because the aide is qualified and has all the appropriate checks? I have always been happy for the aide to teach my child unsupervised as she is excellent. Is this how it is supposed to work? I have never questioned before whether an aide can work unsupervised with the children? In doing this, the aide manages not only the behaviour of the child with additional needs, but also the behaviour of all of the children in the group, including mine. I am happy for the aide to be responsible for managing my kid at school, not so happy for a volunteer to teach my kid what is ok and what is not. How can a volunteer know what is acceptable and what isn't (in general not just in relation to one child) and how can that volunteer be expected to know how to appropriately manage and direct the behaviour of the kids? She is a volunteer, not a teacher, not an aide.

In the middle of all of this is a lovely little girl who seems to have settled reasonably well into the group. Initially, many of the kids were frightened of the child as her behaviour can be quite confronting. Now, the rest of the kids have, for the most part, accepted her as one of their peers and are keen to assist her. Most of the children are kind and caring and are inclusive of the child in their learning and their play. I believe this is partly due to the nature of the children, but also due to the example set by the aide and the way in which she has taught the kids to interact with a child who is very obviously different to themselves. Perhaps the kids could train the volunteer!

No offense taken, JustMe. I'm still not entirely clear on why this situation sits so uncomfortably with me. One of the things I have realised over the course of typing this post is that I need to clarify exactly what role the volunteer will take in the classroom - how much responsibility she will have and whether she will work with the children independently. I'm not sure how to do that when the school has not formally informed the parents of the plan? It is very valuable for me to hear from Lulu as a parent of a child with additional needs and from yourself and others as educator's working with kids. I'm also very interested in how other parent's would feel and whether they would be concerned. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

i dont know if someone's already mentioned this, but maybe you can say to her something along the lines of "it'll be much easier for me to help you get everyone on board with this if she has a WWC check, as alot of the other parents don't know anything about her, and nor do i, and it'll put everyone's mind at ease" that way you're getting that check done, and she still gets her aide.

i understand about the fact that she hasnt worked with children, but maybe she has had experience with kids with special needs? or perhaps the lady knows this child and the mother thinks she is suitable? either way, it seems like you dont have a lot of choice in the situation, but if you can do something to make YOU and the OTHER parents feel safer, and let her think shes getting her own way, it'll be (somewhat) win-win?

Nickle - I am so glad that you didn't take offense at my post - I was trying to word it carefully but you know how these things come across online sometimes. It sounds like an incredibly stressful situation and I am starting to understand more why you are concerned. I guess my big concern about what you wrote initially is that if you fight for her to have the check done and it comes back fine, and it still doesn't sit well with you then it just looks a bit petty. If you are clear about why you are concerned and can raise those issues with the school all at once, then it looks a lot more valid, if that makes sense.

I understand your concern about the other mum - I think it is hard when people decide something that is going to affect everyone and you get told to just lump it. I think one thing about lots of parents of kids with special needs is that they are used to having to fight every step of the way. I am not defending her because I think your point of view is valid, but I think her aggressiveness may come out of having to do a lot of fighting on behalf of her child.

I also think the loud and slow yelling is a problem - is the volunteer mum ESL at all? The teacher may also have an issue working with that going on in her classroom (I know I would). Noise begets noise - if you have an adult talking loudly it encourages the other kids to talk loudly to compete with it and I could see that causing a lot of issues for the teacher. I am surprised the little girl's mum is happy with her being spoken to like that too - it would bother me.

I didn't want to read what you wrote and not reply a little though. I think you are right to be concerned and to raise the issues with the school but it is good for your point of view to be heard if you know what you are worried about and can express it to the school so that solutions can be discussed. How you handle this with them will also give them an impression of you so you need to be careful how you approach it.

My greatest concern with them using a volunteer would be whether that person would be in for the long haul if you know what I mean - it could be a very stressful position, if they aren't being paid they may not be as likely to stick it out as if they were. In the case of the child, I think it would prove quite disruptive for them to be having a change of person should they not last the distance.

Hi Nickle

oooh what a tricky situation! I feel your pain. Will have to be quick but wanted to say a few things - hope they help.

-Re: what Ausgirl has said - absolutely right. I think vol mum has no idea what she's gotten herself in for, and I can't see her lasting the year. Why would you spend that much time helping a child that's not your own for free? I mean, hat off to her for volunteering, but as you mentioned before it seems to have snowballed from a "I could help out" to suddenly this woman is working part-time for free! The situation is unsustainable in the long term.

-I always think in these situations that I don't need to make a fuss because chances are someone else will do it before me, and do it louder! I can't see all the other parents being ok with it and I'm sure once the year starts it will be pretty quickly noticed what is going on and someone will speak up.

-re: WWCC. Not your problem, let it go (don't mean that to sound harsh). Not a mountain to die on here, KWIM? It's not the deal breaker. Plus, if you kick up a fuss you don't want volunteer mum thinking you think she's dodgy.

-you're not an awful person for feeling the way you do. I would feel the same. Just as the other mother's job is to fight for her child, yours is to fight for yours, because no-one else is going to do it.

-do teacher's aids actually have training? I have a feeling in NSW they have very little or nil. I don't mean any disrespect to teacher's aids - they do a great job.

-overall I think the whole situation will be self-resolving without you having to kick up a fuss, KWIM?

Will come back later, but hope that helps a bit!

If you are not being paid you don't pay for your WWC card. It is only if you are being paid that you need to pay the $77.

For the amount of time it takes to apply for a card, fill out the form, get a photo done and then take it to the post office I cannot see why there would be an issue. If she is going to be one on one with this child she needs a WWC card even if her child is in the classroom.

There has recently been a change in some of the rules so the school should know these. We get emails everytime something is changed in regards to WWC.

If anyone has changed their WWC details lately I hope you put down every place you volunteer and/or get paid to. If not, you are not longer registered at these places.

The thing that would be concerning me about this situation is the sneaking past the principal, the is all kinds of wrong to me. I think you may find at the end of the day, that both the principal and the classroom teacher may have something to say about this situation, I can tell you if this was going on in my classroom, then I would be right up there having my opinion heard.
I am not familiar with how the private system words, I have only ever worked in public school, but do the parents really have that much say in how things work? Can this mother really manipulate the system that much that she can sneak something past the principal?
I think for now maybe you should just take a back seat in the situation, I certainly wouldn't be listening to the mother and 'convincing the other mothers' or anything like that. If the mother approaches you about it again, maybe just tell her that it is not your place to get involved.
Can the school not apply somewhere else for funding for the assistant (this is probably a rhetorical question)? In the govt schools you apply for an assistant and you are funded for an asistant for that child, based on the students needs. I wonder how the funding works in the private system, because if the child is deemed needing a full time assistant and funded for one, then where is the other money going?- Anyway just my musings, I hope it helps!

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Can the school not apply somewhere else for funding for the assistant (this is probably a rhetorical question)? In the govt schools you apply for an assistant and you are funded for an asistant for that child, based on the students needs. I wonder how the funding works in the private system, because if the child is deemed needing a full time assistant and funded for one, then where is the other money going?- Anyway just my musings, I hope it helps!

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I was wondering the same thing. In childcare, which I know is a different kettle of fish, you seek assistance through an inclusion agency (so a govt funded body who assist to include disabled and ethnically diverse children). As long as the child is diagnosed as being special needs, you receive funding for a certain number of hours (5 hours per day in cc) for each day they attend. I was naively thinking it should work the same way in the school system but I could be very misguided in my thinking! I too would be wondering if they have approval for an aid for this child, just where that money is going to?

ausgirl - as we discussed earlier there is funding available, but not as much in the private system.

i have a real problem with the no WWC check.
i think this needs to be addressed and i would be going to the Principal with my concerns if i were you.
my dh has worked as a tradesman in schools around Vic and would not be allowed on site without a WWC.

Yeah, I don't care what this woman says about getting it past the principal, it isn't going to happen. There is no way a school would allow no WWC.

I don't know about the actual teachers aides, but parents volunteering for group work and literacy programs at our school (NSW) do not have to have the WWC check done - I've been volunteering there for 5 years now and never needed to have it.

Re the training of teachers aides, there is a 12 month TAFE course that they undertake. A friend of mine started out at the school volunteering in her sons class all the time, and the school offered her an aide position. She worked for 2 years as an aide before starting the course this year. There seems to be a bit of confusion about what the role of the aide is, and it's not a teaching role at all. The aide is there to assist the SN child with their work, reading it out to them so they understand and also keeping them on-task and much of the training is workplace assessment as well. If an aide assists with group work in the classroom, then it would be in no greater capacity than what a regular parent volunteer would do.

In my DD2's class there is a SN child who has an aide and she never takes part in the teaching of the class - she hangs back and sits at the back of the room with the SN child and keeps him calm (he has outbursts). She never works one-on-one with the other children and during literacy groups which needs parent helpers to help it run smoothly she may assist on a group if there aren't enough parents to help on the day.

And really, the WWC check is a bit of a farce because it's only going to show up any Convictions - if they have never been convicted for an offence then the school will not know if they are a paedophile/abuser or not. Not saying that it shouldn't be done, but it shouldn't be the main focus over why this person should not have the job. But the way it seems to be getting arranged doesn't seem right and the Principal of the school has the ultimate say over who works in the school.

I think aide qualifications vary state by state too - MIL used to work as an aide, her friend still does, and neither of them have any qualification at all.

Excellent points about the actual quals. I got quite a shock to hear that in Vic it's only a course of 6 months or less. In fact I started to panic about it not being enough and wondered who DS might be 'stuck with'. Since then I have met at least 6 different aides in the last few months and can't speak of them highly enough. So for me I understand I can't expect a teaching standard qualification....but have since found it's not always necesarry for them as an aide.

What Trill said about the role of the aide is accurate. It's not a highly paid job either, so I believe most people are drawn to it for good reasons. Again - the difference these people can make is amazing. Patience and a good sense of humour are the best qualifications.

** This post is a bit off tangent but I just wanted to clarify for anyone not familiar with the concept of a classroom aide, and the minefield funding can be.

Just a little further OT, but I agree Lulu about the minefield that it is. I have teacher friends and a friend with a boy on the spectrum and they all say that the day you have the assessment for aide hours done is the day you want them to be at their absolute worst so you can try to get more aide hours than what they would if they were having a good day.