Solids, supplements or... what?

DD, who is just five months old, has really ramped up the overnight feeds in the last couple of weeks, to the point that she's up every two hours or less. With an autistic three year old who also is up several times a night (and I only mention the autism because it means that there's not much we can do to alter DS' sleep patterns), and a partner who is helping take the strain by getting up with DS but is near collapse himself because DD is in our room (and is working twelve hour days on top of it all), it's getting to a point where something has got to give.

I remember DS went through a similar stage at around 5 months, like any other growth spurt it doesn't necessarily mean that they are ready for solids, but that they just need more breastfeeds. DD is showing great interest in food, but doesn't display the other signs of readiness - she still has a tongue thrust reflex, and is not sitting independently, although she's pretty close. So, she may not be quite ready for solids yet, but I don't really want to introduce supplements at this late stage (or at all really), and it's also quite possible that she's thirsty, as it is insanely hot up here at the moment, even at night. Her output is fine, btw, and she's a healthy, happy, chubby baby.

Normally I would tell myself to just ride it out, it's only a month or so more before she'll start solids, but the truth is, this lack of sleep is untenable. DP and I are like walking zombies. It's getting to a point where I'm concerned for DP's safety, and I am finding it difficult managing DS.

At this stage, what would you try: solids (we will be doing BLS), supplements, or maybe even trying giving her water to drink?

I am going through the exact same thing with Ambah. She's been waking up more at night for feeds in the past week. I really think it's got to do with the heat at the moment. If it were me, I'd try and water first. If that doesn't seem to help, then it's a toss up between supplement feed or solids. But if she's not completely ready for solids, then maybe a supplement feed.
I really feel for you hun, I'm finding it hard enough as well, but can't even begin to imagine what you're going through with E. :hug:
I have the 2 bigger girls in care on Thurs & Fri this week. If there is anything at all I can do, let me know. Even if you just want to chill with a coffee, and I'll play with Annika.

Ah, you're gorgeous Jodi! I'm so sorry we haven't managed to catch up recently, Euan's term at EI went so quickly: we had a bout of flu that everyone in the house got and seemed to last forever, then he had his tonsils out nearly three weeks ago, and now it's nearly Christmas! I'm still not quite sure where the last three months went to be honest!

If we don't manage to catch up before Christmas, E will be at 'school' three days next year, Monday to Wednesday, so perhaps I could come and visit you once he starts?

of course :)
3 days a week! That will be great for you and him :)

Hi Suse

That's tough especially when you have another toddler to deal with as well. Hugs!!

Firstly, there is a huge Wonder Week around the 20 week mark so I'd say that's most likely what happening. I remember that one clearly with our DD - it went on for about 5 weeks!! She was really unsettled and drinking a lot more (I was BF then too) and she was teething so the whole time was pretty uncomfy for her. I feel for you, I seriously won't forget that Wonder Week (weeks???) in a hurry!!

If your DD isn't sitting unassisted yet then I don't think I'd be starting solids just yet, more milk and water might be a better option. Do you / can you express to give her top ups?

Also, has your DD started rolling yet? That was another thing that threw my DD. I was up and down with her like a yo-yo as she insisted on practising in her sleep and getting herself in a right state!!

I know it doesn't help a lot but I honestly think it's a growth spurt so try to remember 'this too shall pass'

I would try some water honestly.
Charlotte had similar issues here - and it being sooo hot can really effect them. Charlotte still drinks a lot overnight during summer months.
We started by offering watered down EBM every second wake overnight, eventually she would take water overnight if she was hot and thirsty, and I would give her maybe 2 BF at around 6 months.
Also, extra feeds before bedtime, and some water during the day if you feel you are not hydrated enough. It is so easy for even BF bubs to get thirsty in climates like ours, and she gets all her hydration from the BM, so make sure you are well hydrated.

Is there anything else you can do to cool her down? Stop wrapping or have a fan blowing near her?

Thanks Taurean. Yep, DD is rolling already, has been for about two months now. She started early LOL. She does stir when she rolls over, but very rarely needs resettling, and when she does, a pat on the head suffices. She's always been a frequent feeder, but she was sleeping for up to 6 hours at a time for the first part of the evening after cluster feeding, and then would feed every two hours after that. But now, we're still getting the cluster feeding, but she's up at least every two hours if not more.

I don't express, but with a baby feeding less than two hourly I honestly don't know when I would express though. Even if I started now, she'd probably be two by the time I had enough for one feed LOL.

I've been trying to work on the 'this too will pass' principle, but it's getting to the point that I'm near collapse. Unfortunately, DS' lack of sleep contributes on a huge level (and this is not something that will pass, unfortunately), and I worked out the other day that I can count the number of times that I've slept for more than six hours in a night for the past three years on one hand. It breaks my heart that DD gets the short end of the stick when she's just being a normal baby, and I wish I could ride it out, but it's getting out of hand. I can keep going as long as I can, but it's at the point where I need a back up option.

Incidentally, how many babies are sitting completely unassisted by six months? My DS was (he was sitting before six months), but he was the first, by a long shot, amongst all of his peers. When I think sitting unassisted, I think of sitting on the ground, without using hands to support themselves. But a lot of babies aren't doing that until 7-8 months, right? By sitting unassisted, do they mean sitting in a chair (ie: back support) without falling forwards/sideways? Because DD's doing that now, she's sitting for short periods on the ground too, just not completely independently.

Ta LS! At the moment, she's sleeping in a singlet and nappy, and we have the fan going in the bedroom, as well as the loungeroom aircon on a dehumidifying setting which cools the bedroom a little. She's never been wrapped, and doesn't have a blanket or cover over her. Short of her sleeping nekkid, LOL, not much else I can do.

But my own hydration is a good one to watch, I'm always the last to get a drink around here. Might also break out the activite again too.

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Incidentally, how many babies are sitting completely unassisted by six months? My DS was (he was sitting before six months), but he was the first, by a long shot, amongst all of his peers. When I think sitting unassisted, I think of sitting on the ground, without using hands to support themselves. But a lot of babies aren't doing that until 7-8 months, right? By sitting unassisted, do they mean sitting in a chair (ie: back support) without falling forwards/sideways? Because DD's doing that now, she's sitting for short periods on the ground too, just not completely independently.

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Nina was sitting independently until she was around 9 months of age! She was slow with everything lol, but she was on solids long before that. Ambah can sit without falling, but not unassisted.

With you being so exhausted, it could be possible that your milk is being affected by this.

I agree with you on the 'sitting unassisted' rule for solids - I think they mean supported in a high chair, bumbo, etc but not slumping or falling forward, etc. Your DD may be ready. We started our DD on solids at 5 and a half months and she was ready, took to it really well. It didn't help her sleep though. Our DD was doing 12 hours straight from 10 weeks but that all went out the window around the week 20 Wonder Week. The only thing that settled her was comfort ie Boobies!! She used a dummy too so that helped as well.

LS gave some good advice. If your thirsty then your DD may well be too. I know I don't listen to my thirst enough though but I'm always offering DD water. We started giving our DD water when she started solids and she took to it well. That could definitely help.

I'm not sure if your against formula or not but we also gave DD formula top ups when we felt she needed them. I had a horrible start to our BF journey (lots and lots if expressing and pain - a whole other story!) so I didn't enjoy expressing that much by 5 months so both DH and I agreed formula was ok for top ups when DD seemed to need more milk and I wasn't up to it. But if you're against formula then that's cool, I just thought it was worth suggesting.

I shouldn't have to say this but I will, for anyone else reading this, please no criticising about using formula while BF. I'm suggesting something that worked for us and I also had a very successful BF relationship with my DD until she turned one. I didn't suggest that to start a debate.

We went through this stage when DS was around 5 months as well, i ended up putting the night waking down to a developmental shift as he all of a sudden could do so many more things, sitting up, really paying attention to toys, grabbing, watching, etc. Once he had 'mastered' them his sleeping went back to semi-normal (1-2 times per night rather than every 2ish hours). I am not sure if solids is going to help here, but if it helps reassure you, just when i was really at breaking point it all suddenly got a whole lot better! Just be kind and gentle on yourself in the meantime and trying and try and get to bed earlier if possible, try and relax with the other stuff as well.

Suse, this is a difficult age. :hug: It's certainly a wonder week (or weeks ;) ) - this will be a period of rapid brain development in readiness for the next milestones like sitting. Breastmilk is the very best food for this as it has all the proteins needed for brain development. Offering an extra feed or two if you can squeeze them during the day might help, but might not also. I would not offer water at this stage - your milk is likely to be more watery if it's hot there anyway and the milk is really what's needed here, not water.

I tend to think that solids might make life a bit more difficult right now, more mess and work, but if you are truly following BLS she won't eat anything until she's ready so in that sense it won't hurt. The main risk with BLS before they are ready is well meaning adults - family and friends - who try to "help" the baby eat and put food in their mouths instead of letting the baby decide when she's ready.

All the best hun. I hope it gets easier really soon :hug:

Actually, that's a really good point MR - if she's not ready for it, then she won't actually eat it. Well, that makes me feel a little better about trying it. I might offer her some steamed pumpkin next time we have it and just see what she does with it. DS didn't take to solids until just after 7 months, so it could be the same for DD. She does feed quite frequently throughout the day, and she still cluster-feeds in the early evening, with a really long feed just before bed, but I'll try to feed her more during the day.

Although you are all right - starting solids doesn't necessarily mean that sleep will improve, it certainly didn't for DS, although he does have other 'issues' which are a big factor in his lack of sleep. And you are also right about this being one of the most full-on wonder-weeks there is, I remember it was the same for DS too.

Taurean, to answer your question, I don't have anything against formula, but seeing that she's five months old, I'd be reluctant to try to introduce it now if solids is a better alternative. She may well not accept a bottle anyway. And in terms of my own laziness, I can probably cope with solids more easily than I can with preparing formula and washing bottles and all of that.

Thanks everyone for your advice - it's been really helpful! Now, if someone could just tell DD that wonder weeks are all very well and good, but she needs to sleep at night before her parents turn into walking zombies, that would be great!

Yeah, I was thinking about day feeds as well - is she feeding just as frequently then or maybe you could squeeze another 1-2 in?
If it's a nighttime thing then adding solids during the day mightn't actually help - but as you say, if she's not ready she won't eat it anyway. MAybe it's a heat related thing too...
hope you get some sleep soon!

No worries :) I still reckon it's that damn week 20 Wonder Week! Good luck, it will be over soon!

On balance, I think I would try solids. it might not be a quick fix, but she is close to the right age to start them. It sounds like you have plenty of milk. Do you co-sleep? Often it is the closeness of their parent that babies want at this age.
Above all, you need support for your family. It is a really hard time for you all - and I know help can be hard to find. Look after yourselves

Sorry, everyone. Have been meaning to pop back in for yonks and update (and to thank everyone for their thoughtful responses!)

We've had a bit of improvement, followed by some hell nights, and followed by a bit more improvement. We are on a good cycle right now. Last night she slept from 8:30 till 4:00, then until 6:00am-ish.

Barb, to answer your question, we semi co-sleep. She's in a cot in our room and comes in with us if she needs/wants to. But generally she sleeps in the cot, because like her brother, she seems to actually prefers her own space for sleeping. She's more restless when she's in with us, and will roll and kick and wriggle and generally be a prize pain in the butt to sleep next to. She actually pushes me over to the edge of the bed (by kicking me) and then spreads herself out in the middle of the bed. Only once I am no longer in her space will she lie still and go back to sleep. Little terror. :D Although if I lay down to feed and we both fall asleep, she will sleep happily cuddled into my armpit. I think that like her mother, she's a woman of extremes. (ETA: I should add that she is worn a lot during the day, which I think fulfils a lot of the need for close contact. DS was the same, worn during the day but preferred his own space at night).

My suspicion is that apart from the growth spurts it has something to do with how she goes down in the first part of the night. If she has a good long feed, and then goes into bed and isn't disturbed for the first couple of hours, she will sleep for up to 7 hours and will self settle if she stirs. But if that first part of the night is disturbed and she wakes enough to need resettling out of the cot (usually with a feed), then it sets up a pattern for the rest of the night, and that's the only way she'll resettle. We do settle her quickly by whatever means, because apart from us not wanting her to cry, if she does it wakes her brother who then takes hours to settle.

We ended up not worrying too much about solids at this point because to be honest, it seemed like more work than just giving her breast feeds. My DP hasn't been home much in the leadup to Christmas and it was all a bit too hard thinking about it. (Although she did have a lick of a piece of watermelon yesterday and seemed to be quite intrigued). She's only a week off six months so we'll start offering her food as the opportunity arises.

Thanks everyone for your help - it did help us to get through this rough patch. :hug:

I'm so glad to hear that things are going better hun. Your instincts are working well :hug:

mmmm, watermelon!
Sounds like things are under control