Uh oh! I think we 'broke' our baby...

Well not quite, but right now it feels a bit like that...

DS has been a great sleeper for a long time now. When he was ready for bed he'd point to his cot, we'd pop him and he'd go to sleep by himself and sleep through.

We went to the US to visit family for a month over Christmas. While we were away we sat with DS while he went to sleep or rocked him to sleep because he was in a strange places and we were also sharing a room with him.

Now that we're home, he refuses to go to sleep by himself. He's fine if one of us sits in the room with him, but the second we leave he starts screaming. Now I wouldn't mind keeping this up, but each nap and night it is taking longer and longer for him to go to sleep. ATM it's about an hour and a half of him tossing and turning in his cot and mucking about. And then he wakes 3 or 4 times during the night and we have to go through the whole thing over again.

Because he's tossing and turning I can't help but wonder if he's uncomfortable. I've toyed with the idea of giving him a pillow (but he's only 18 months and still in the cot) and wondered if I need to get him bigger sleeping bags (his are meant to be ok till 2 years and he is small for his age). I've also wondered if it's time to take the side off of his cot, but am saving this as a last resort...

It's pretty clear that he's feeling a bit insecure at the moment, after all we went away and turned everything he's ever known upside down, so I'm ok with taking the time to work with him to make him feel safe and secure in his own room. But now I can't help but wonder if there are other things at play. After all, he's a month older and I feel like his sleep needs have changed, I'm struggling to know when is the right time to put him down... Or is it that to feel safe he needs the security of being able to get in and out of his bed... Or could it be time for a pillow and blankets?

What do you think? Sorry I'm a little lost and looking for ideas and advice or just some details of any sleep changes you had at this stage. TIA :)

ETA Oh yeah just wanted to add that at CC the other day he napped for 2 hours! The little bugger won't nap for more than 40 mins at home right now and that's after a good hour or more of trying to get him to sleep!

well, as you know i am certainly no expert on how to have a good sleeper :lol: but...we gave corey a pillow a couple of months ago because he kept stealing ours & always put his head on one if he was on our bed, itms? we got a cot pillow that said from 12 months & he likes it. he moves it around to where he wants it & it seems to help as another sleep cue - we can say 'put your head on your pillow, time for sleep' and he knows what we mean.

i've also noticed some big changes in the last couple of weeks with his attitude towards sleep - he's on a mattress on the floor & now he doesn't cry for us when he wakes up but he'll either call out 'mum' or he'll get up & come looking for us. i have to say that it's given me the biggest fright to wake up to this little person standing by the bed yelling 'MUM' :lol: but apart from that, i feel like he's pretty happy with the small increase in freedom.

we're still using a sleeping bag but he's in one for up to 36months & he really doesn't re-settle as well without it - but blankets could be worth a try?

what about his bedtime? do you think maybe a slightly later (or earlier) bedtime could work?

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Thanks hun, where did you get the pillow from? I looked in a few places yesterday and couldn't find any cot pillows. Maybe I should take the side off the cot and see how he goes... We're a little bit worried about him getting in and out, especially because we have lots of stairs, but then I do still have the AngelCare monitor on, so we'd know right away when he got up!

Not too sure about the whole bedtime thing, it feels like there is never a right time iykwim? His tired signs used to be so obvious and when I'd put him down he'd be asleep within 10 mins. Now he can be in bed, yawning and rubbing his eyes and still not go to sleep. Because it's taking so long to get him to sleep his nap is getting later and later which has meant that bedtime is too... He's always had a tired period at around 9.30am so I'm wondering if giving him a nap earlier in the day might help... Ah who knows, it doesn't matter how long you do this parenting stuff, there's always a new challenge that leaves you feeling like a complete novice :rolleyes:

we got it from baby bunting - it's a nice flat one. there's one not too far from you, isn't there?

we still get the morning tired period as well - down to one nap but sometimes he down for it by 9.30. can make for a long afternoon :lol:

I find with my DS, if he hasn't been outside to play, he takes longer to go to sleep. He's such a high energy boy too so it's difficult to tell his tired signs. We mostly go by time. If he's been outside running around or at the park, he's asleep within minutes of going into his cot. If he's been sitting around watching TV or in the trolley while I'm shopping, he takes a lot longer, often close to an hour.

My DS loves having a pillow so it could be time for that. We've recently taken the side off his cot so he can climb in himself (we have a safety rail and there is a small gap he can climb through at the foot of the cot). He loves it and will climb in happily. My DS is a little older than yours though.

Is he screaming in distress or just having a little sook? Since he was in the same room as you on your trip, he's probably used to having you there so maybe a slow introduction to being alone again will help. Try leaving the room when he's almost asleep and gradually make it earlier. I found with my DS, he actually went to sleep quicker when we started leaving the room. Sometimes he'd cry out and I'd go back in and let him know I was nearby and he'd lie down again. If we stayed in there, he'd lie there watching us and wouldn't close his eyes. It was like a game for him.

Maybe the sleeping bag is restricting him? Have you tried PJ's?

Good luck.

ETA: We got DS's cot pillow from Ikea.

Sloane, I was going to go to Baby Bunting, but thought i would try elsewhere, I think I'll be making a trip over tomorrow. I also think I'll try an early nap tomorrow, I've always tried to stretch him till around 11.30am, but maybe one early in the day will work better... fingers crossed anyways...

Thanks Rowellen, I'm definately going to give the pillow a try, then maybe try taking the side off the cot if I get really desperate. Our cot is an oval shape, so I'm pretty sure he wouldn't fall out cos when the side comes out there isn't that much space if that makes sense. After a few days of being back we did try to see what would happen if we just left him like you said. The minute he realised we were gone he'd start screaming. It's funny, cos he doesn't cry, he more yells iykwim? when I go in he doesn't have tears, he just lays right down as if to say 'Im ready to go to sleep' but if I leave again he's up and screaming and it will go on for hours with us going in and out. I feel awful saying it, but the day after we did that he lost his voice, made me feel like such a mean mummy!

If you take the side off his cot you could put a gate on his bedroom door so he couldn't get to the stairs. That way he'd also know bedtime means he has to stay in his room, preferably in his bed but if he's not ready for sleep he'd be able to play but still stay in his room.

:hug: You're not a mean mummy! Maybe he just needs you there for a while. Once his routine is re-established, it might get easier. As you said, you were gone for a month, completely changed everything he knew and he's grown up a lot in that time. It must be very frustrating for you, but I think, if you work with his needs, encourage him and keep reassuring him, he'll eventually learn that you are still there for him even if you're not in the room ITMS?

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:hug: You're not a mean mummy! Maybe he just needs you there for a while. Once his routine is re-established, it might get easier. As you said, you were gone for a month, completely changed everything he knew and he's grown up a lot in that time. It must be very frustrating for you, but I think, if you work with his needs, encourage him and keep reassuring him, he'll eventually learn that you are still there for him even if you're not in the room ITMS?

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That's what I'm hoping, fingers crossed.

Hi Babe
In a bit of a rush so can’t write too much but will try to pop back later if I can.
Well, I am also not the best person re sleep as both my boys have been shockers (that said J slept thru last night and sun night, the only times ever so far). J’s sleep is improving a lot now…
I do think this is partly an age thing, I have noticed chgs over time with J and at the moment I think they are developing so much they know they are tired but they are also really aware that they are ‘missing out’ when they are asleep. I make sure J knows we will all be going to bed soon (at night)… in case that helps (they understand so much)
J has a pillow and LOVES it. It is a Sheridan kids one and is v small and flat. Ikea also have good kids ones for the cot. He is also in a sleeping bag but I use a v light cot quilt – we sometimes pull it over him (even w the bag, we use the merino ones) and sometimes it is just there at the bottom of his cot. He seems to find it comforting. And recently we got him a little toy tyo cuddle, which he likes (but this is prob more bc his older bro has toys in his bed!).
I often sit with him while he sleeps, but I tell him I will leave if he plays/gets up. Sometimes I have to leave na dhe gets upset but then I go back in and he is more likely to sleep. I sometimes give him some water at night. Generally I ask him what he wants… but tell him it is still sleep time.
We went oseas for a couple of weeks and it took about a week for him to settle at home again – it also coincided w going back to crèche after3 weeks with us – all the adjustment messed with him for a week or so…
I hate to say this, but I have just weaned in the last week – and this has helped night waking (or it is a coincidence)
Hope that rambling helps… (my main thoughts is it is an age thing and the disruption from travel…)
ps in reading back - guess i did have time for a full reply LOL

It took a couple of months for our DD to go back to self settling after a 10 day holiday where she shared our bed. What did it for us was getting her out of the cot and into a bed. I settled her in the bed and often stayed till she was asleep, then left.

Thanks Mama Pan, glad to hear J is sleeping much better! Ash has also just gone back to creche this week, and DH has only gone back to work this week, so I think all of that is coming into play as well...

Do you use the Merino Kids sleeping bags? Thats what we've got, but I'm starting to think the 0-2 years ones are a bit small. Is J in the 2-4yrs ones yet? I'm thinking I'll invest in the bigger size and hope that that helps, mind you I don't really want to spend all those $$$ only to find he doesn't like sleeping bags anymore...

It's interesting you say that the weaning has helped too. I've been thinking for awhile I'd like to wean soon. At the moment he just has a feed before bed at night and one in the morning when he wakes up (mind you of late this has slipped back to about 4.30am when I give up and bring him to bed with us). But I do find sometimes when he wakes at night he is demanding a BF and I have to get DH to come in and settle him... I was actually thinking yesterday that maybe I would try dropping his bedtime feed, cos at the moment he's not really seeing it as a sleep cue iykwim?

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It took a couple of months for our DD to go back to self settling after a 10 day holiday where she shared our bed. What did it for us was getting her out of the cot and into a bed. I settled her in the bed and often stayed till she was asleep, then left.

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OMG a couple of months... Here I was hoping for a couple of weeks. So did you go to a big girl bed? Or did you put her to sleep in your bed?

J wasnt having a feed before bed for a while ( we moved to DH putting to bed for the most part) but always had a 4.30ish feed (sometimes 3.30ish)... i think when he woke in th enight it was like 'is it time for that yet???'. he was clawing at me all the time in the day trying to feed and it was a major comfort thing for him (but was becoming hard for me to manage - different issue/circumstance). iot wasnt as hard asi thought to wean him - maybe you can get rid of those feeds using your DH to help - i decided it was time when the feeds werent a sleep cue...
he is in the merino kids bags (the ones from nz). i love them. his fits ok but he isnt so big (only just hitting 10kg). i think i will buy one a size bigger soon and see how we go. i know with DS1 i bought some bigger bags and then he gave them up!
some sep advice - DS1 was a terrible sleeper - we moved him to a bed at 19 months (a king single so a big boy bed) and this created a much more positive experience for him (and me!). i used to lie down and settle him and then leave. it chgd things a lot for us. but he never really liked his cot! i have also heard of people putting a mattress on the floor and that helping a lot too....

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some sep advice - DS1 was a terrible sleeper - we moved him to a bed at 19 months (a king single so a big boy bed) and this created a much more positive experience for him (and me!). i used to lie down and settle him and then leave. it chgd things a lot for us. but he never really liked his cot! i have also heard of people putting a mattress on the floor and that helping a lot too....

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that's what we've done - we have a king single & at the moment just use the mattress on the floor. when DS is a bit bigger we'll use the base as well. DS has been in it since he was about 10 months old and it is soooo much easier to settle him. but as MP said with her DS1, corey has never liked his cot.

i was also going to say that i'm about to start the weaning process as well. as with sleeping, i've noticed a big change in how DS feeds now - he doesn't really attach properly for a good feed, it really does seem to be about comfort & i'd really like to see if we can meet that need another way (i feel a bit selfish but figure that we've had a very good run!).

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i was also going to say that i'm about to start the weaning process as well. as with sleeping, i've noticed a big change in how DS feeds now - he doesn't really attach properly for a good feed, it really does seem to be about comfort & i'd really like to see if we can meet that need another way (i feel a bit selfish but figure that we've had a very good run!).

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Yeah, Ash is the same, it seems like my nipples are always a bit sore now and I can't get him to attach 100% properly. Also he hardly ever seems to swallow anymore, so it does seem like it is more out of comfort than anything else... I know what you mean about feeling a bit selfish, that's why I've been putting it off, but there is a big part of me that really wants my body back (god I feel selfish just writing that) for awhile before we go for number 2 iykwim? And, one of my best friends is getting married in a few weeks and having her hens down the penninsula, I'd love to be able to go down in the afternoon and not have to be home to feed DS before bed at 7pm (even more selfish!).

Think we'll try putting him to bed without a feed tonight and see what happens... (gulp)

i totally hear you on that one - it's exactly why i'd like to wean as well. i feel horrible & selfish for it, but also think that i am entitled to have my body back for a bit.

good luck tonight :)

girls - we are all on the same page here!!!!! amazing!
best of luck tonight Miss - it may be best if you are out and he sees you go (maybe for a walk) so your Dh could put him down. it wont be easy - it isnt the first time... but then again when we did it it was easier than i thought. maybe give hima cup of milk or water and tell him you arent going to feed him. let us know how you go! xxx

this is why BB is great - now we all feel 'normal' :D

i agree on being out - i went out for dinner on tues night & it only took DP about 10 mins to get him to sleep & he slept for 7 hours instead of the usual 3. think i might go out more often :lol:

its a sign honey....

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this is why BB is great - now we all feel 'normal' :D :

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I chickened out tonight! I such a softie, might try tomorrow lol!

:lol: so did i! but i'm going to try not feeding overnight.

Just logged on to see how you went lol!!!!! Hope your nights were ok anyway....
Hmmm tonight is another night...

We're so in sync Sarah! I got through the night with no feeds how'd you go?

MP we did a little better last night, only 1 hour to go to sleep! And he only woke up once, mind you he was up for three hours! Here's to a better night tonight.... I just put him down for an early nap today, here's hoping it makes bedtime a little more straightforward tonight....

let's hope so!!!! xxx

glad to hear the time to get him to sleep shortened a bit - those middle of the night playtimes are a killer though! hopefully the earlier nap will help too :)

only two feeds here (and one was to get him through a little longer so i didn't have to get up so early :lol) which is a big improvement. i'm going to try for none tonight because DP will be home for the weekend so i can sneak in some naps if i need to!

How are you both going now?..

things are good here - down to one feed overnight & he's slept for 6-7 hours for his first sleep for the last couple of nights. i'm really happy with that, esp since it's been quite warm. normally he wakes alot if it's warm overnight (don't we all :lol:)

think i'll need a bit of a cheersquad when it comes time to tackle the rest of his feeds. DP is happy for me to do whatever but i do want to stop, although i'm horrible at taking the easy option - which is to feed. all a bit confusing at the moment!!

how are you & your DS going miss e?

and how's your little man, mamapan?

we are going great..... i would say he is weaned now and generally he is sleeping well. slept through a couple of nights and the others we have had 1 or maybe 2 quick settles. i am amazed at how he has improved recently.
i also took him to his gparents yest to see if they coujld get him down to sleep (they will have him1 day a week soon when DS1 starts kinder) and he slept for 2 hours!!! so relieved!
and to top it off - he just started to walk! so its been a great week for little Jakey!

sounds like lots of improvement for you too sloane - 6-7 hrs is great!!! i know what you mean re feeding being the easy option - in some ways it is... i think there comes a pt you will be ready and sop will he - it is just diff for everyone!

Hahahaha! I've been taking the easy option to Sloan, still haven't tackled weaning, I still really want to, but every night when bed time comes it just seems easier to give him a feed and put it off till tomorrow... Mind you, I've got this hens night coming up in three weeks and DH just said that if I wanted to spend the night he was okay with that and he would just work it out. But if I do do that I think I will have needed to drop his bedtime feed by then and then use that as the first day without a morning one...

Sleep is getting better slowly, he's still waking quite a bit, but the last couple of nights we've been able to pop in quickly and then leave him to resettle on his own which is a good step in the right direction!

MP, don't you just love how they will have long naps for other people, but not for you. DS does the same thing at CC, it drives me nuts. At the moment I'm finding getting him to sleep for a nap to be the biggest problem, yesterday he fell asleep in the car and I managed to get him inside without waking him. I tell you I was jumping for joy at no having to spend an hour trying to get him to sleep so he could sleep for 40 mins. And to top it off he slept for an hour and 15 mins!

how are you both going now...
All is well w us!

We're finally back on track! DS has slept through the last few nights which has been wonderful, but he is also back to waking up for the day at 5.00am... But hey I guess you take the good with the bad don't you. Only thing is we have just sold our house so are going to be moving in 3 weeks which will probably mean we'll be right back where this read started urgh!

How are you doing MP?