The *down* side to gentle parenting?

I need to clarify before I post anything here that I am - or have always thought of myself as a gentle parent, and I believe in and am even passionate about the basic philosophy behind it.

I am going through a real challenge at the moment as I once again find myself at the crossroads. Gentle parenting has broken me for the second time, with my second daughter. I only wish that all the co-sleeping, baby wearing, gentle time I have spent with my daughters would translate into a peaceful rewarding relationship, but for me it has taken me to some of the worst places I could imagine as a mother.

Don't get me wrong, it has also given me the best, and most rewarding moments also, but this parenting caper is such a challenge, such a mixed bag and such a difficult thing to manage that I just can't make gentle parenting work for all the belief I have in it.

I also truly believe that a sane mother is better than an insane one and because of sleep deprivation, I am teetering towards insane at the moment so I am having to leave behind some of my strongly held gentle parenting beliefs, as much as I really don't want to. And this is where my question fits. Is the down side to gentle parenting the fact that if you cannot maintain it you feel like more of a failure than if you never entertained thoughts of it in the first place? A real side effect of gentle parenting for me is the terrible guilt I feel at not being able to meet it's standards. Maybe if I never bothered to read Margot Sutherland's book or Pinky McKay, or "The Continuum Concept" I would not feel so damn terrible.

I know that when I get over this hurdle, I can re-visit gentle parenting, I just hate that it has led to me being as overtired and as insane as I am right now cos I know better.

Just have to get that out.

WHy not throw away the labels and do what works best for you all?
:hug:

Honestly, I think that there would be very few people who could read those books, adopt that philosophy and have it go easy peasy without any troubles. What I have learnt is that we can read all the parenting books in the world, but our kids don't read those same books so sometimes it kinda ends up with you trying to fit a square peg in a round hole kwim? I think that it is probably being overly ambitious of anyone to think that they can get it to work exactly as it says in the books - sometimes they might and that's awesome, but the reality would be that some parents would have to make concessions if they are going to make anything work.

So what I reckon is stop trying to put so much pressure on yourself to be a certain type of parent and just be yourself, because I'm sure being yourself and just doing whatever works for you and the girls on that particular day is going to be far better for everyone involved as opposed to you trying to stick to something that sounds like it isn't working and making you a mess in the process. Your girls aren't going to care that you followed Pinky or the continuum concept down to the the last letter, they are going to care that you do whatever works for all of you :hug:

And that doesn't mean you are a sellout, or not a gentle enough parent, all that means is that you realise that sometimes your little square pegs need a square hole even if the book says they need the round one ;)

hugs, what ever your going through sounds hard and i have sympathy for you. some times when i was in DDs room for the 3rd hour straight rocking her to sleep and i thought of other mums who just let there kids cry a bit for a few nights then they settle them selves to sleep id hate the way i had chosent o do things and would think ''what difference would it really make in ten years time'' ''would she even notice if i just let her cry a bit''

What ever you decide to do is for the best for you and your children!!! you need to find what works for you all, even if you just take one idea from the book and then work that into your own stuff! hugs and good luck, hope your probs sort them selves out!

aye aye aye aye! Yup, know how you feel and actually said to a couple of friends today... me + gentle parenting today = EPIC fail on every level! Ooooh boy do I hear you.

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WHy not throw away the labels and do what works best for you all?
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:yeahthat: Big hugs hun I think we all reach a point where every type of parenting gets thrown out the window and you do what you have to to cope! Big hugs xxx

I guess labels are exactly the problem.

and I feel the problem is also that I have been trying to do what feels right, what has felt natural for me and the kids and I have been please and proud of how beautifully they have responded to me. I just wish that there was more sleep! It is really only the sleep deprivation that has driven me to this point of despair and unfortunately that has made me into an irritable, intolerant mother who is so far from what I want to be.

I am more realistic than to try to follow the advice of such books to the letter, and it is not that I am down on myself for not living like the Amazonian Indians or never letting my children cry, because believe me, I know when a little bit of crying or less than textbook mothering is not the end of the world. I just feel that I am beyond that and have begun to behave in a way that I am really not proud of. I don't even want to mention some of the things I have done or thought today as it is certainly more than just being hard on myself.

Anyway, I'm visiting with my MCHN tomorrow and have put other avenues of support into place, I am just interested in the feelings I am having of (I guess) 'grief' at not being able hold it together. ...or even shame at some of the ways I have delt with things.

... and I have no inspiration to be a perfect parent

I'd have low points on my gentle parenting journey too, resort to less gentle methods and then go back to it when I was stronger. I think the big thing is support. All methods of parenting work better with extra hands, support and most importantly - giving more to yourself. You can so easily burn out with gentle parenting if you dont have this. Do you have other people around you who can come and give you some help for a while? Makes a huuuuuge difference.

You're not alone feeling like this jackrose.
It's a very clear sign that you need rest and time out - I hope you can find the support and help to let you do that.
There is no such thing as a perfect parent, just like there's no perfect child.

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I'd have low points on my gentle parenting journey too, resort to less gentle methods and then go back to it when I was stronger. I think the big thing is support. All methods of parenting work better with extra hands, support and most importantly - giving more to yourself. You can so easily burn out with gentle parenting if you dont have this. Do you have other people around you who can come and give you some help for a while? Makes a huuuuuge difference.

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You know what, this is exactly it.

DH works faaaar to many hours in the day, 7 days a week and I do feel like a work-a-holic widow, (with a third child when he is here :rolleyes:) Plus he is about to head off for another overseas trip this week....

This is burnout for me and it is not the end of the world as I can still see the forest for the trees, I can see it for what it is. I am keenly aware that I need support and do what I can to arrange it. I just really wish that some of the parenting I had employed to date resulted in a baby who slept for more than 2 hours at a time... or a husband who got it when I said, I am exhausted, please help, let me sleep.

With regards to the other people who can help, I did have help from mum in the last few weeks but was so sleep deprived I have reached the level of insomnia and couldn't get to sleep when I had the chance. Seem to be addicted to those bf sleepy hormones :doh:

So i guess my next question to consider is "does gentle parenting only work with support?"

(ETA: this is really just me thinking things through in a way)

Oh, I could have written your post (in fact I may have) when DD was 8 months old...the only thing that saved my sanity was going home to my parents for a week and SERIOUSLY sleeping. I mean, I only had the baby for feeds, and everything else was done for me.

YES gentle parenting works better with help...in fact ALL parenting works better with help.

You sound isolated and overwhelmed, and frankly very darn lucid for someone so fatigued.

Is is possible to keep some of your philosophies about GP, while still getting support? Can you call on relatives for a "holiday" wiuth only one child, or for some meals, or some cleaning duties.

It is very hard to ask for help, but even harder to cope without it. Where are you based? Could some local BBers come and give you a hand.

You're not alone in this.

Let go of the guilt (some advice I need to take). This too shall pass, and right now you sound like you're in survival mode...do whatever it takes to get you through!!

:grouphug: thinking of you

We are not wired to parent this way. We weren't designed to do it all. We weren't designed to work full time, raise a family - women are nurturers and all about community. But we're stuck in a house with babies and at our wits end trying to parent how our heart tells us but the body is screaming out, 'please stop and care for me.' Its just not going to work that way. I too had the IT widow/overseas travelling situation and felt very very alone. It sent me crazy and doubting myself, the way I parented, and the guilt because I wanted to give them what they deserved.

It takes a village to raise a child and its never too late to build your village. Go get yourself a massage STAT and think about a plan to support you, so you can mother to the best of your abilities - because you feel mothered too. If youre on my FB had a very interesting discussion about this yesterday!

I agree with Arcadia - nothing works without support. If you are in that situation it wouldn't matter what you did, you would still reach a point where you just burn out. And there are no guarantees that if you followed other methods that you would have babies that slept better. Some babies are just crap sleepers period. I know what it's like to feel like you are mostly doing it alone too. When I had our 3rd bub DH was working a 13 day fortnight with only Sundays off and 14 hour days for SEVEN MONTHS!! I had a 3.3yo, a not quite 2yo and a newborn and it was hell! It was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. So I totally understand where you are coming from in that regard. So just do what you have to do and when you do have the support available to you grab it with both hands and take it. And don't be afraid to tell people you need help. We get pretty good at making it look like we are coping and have our act together when really we are like a duck on water - calm as anything above the water but paddling furiously beneath it.

*nods* oh I remember the full on sleep deprived days like that... Elijah was shocking until 14 months old and I was at my wits end so often and just pictured myself looking like in some of the cartoons, the ladies with the fag hanging out of their mouths (except that I gave up years before), the slippers on, the robes and the hair up in rollers with the scarf around it and those GINOURMOUS bags under their eyes... that's how I felt I looked lol. I have to say that the days where I have not had a good nights sleep.. .yep are the hard ones... but also I hear you on DH working. Now, I know he has to work, I understand that and I feel very lucky to be able to be a SAHM (but I tell you sometimes I wish I worked cos it's easier during the day lol..) but the hours are just insane! Today, for instance, he left home at 4:30am and didn't get home until 6:30pm... it is really hard when the days just drag on and on. :hug: Some days, I actually do nothing, no housework, apart from cooking and just the kitchen tidy up but NOTHING else cos I NEED to not do it.

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We are not wired to parent this way. We weren't designed to do it all. We weren't designed to work full time, raise a family - women are nurturers and all about community.

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I couldn't have said that any better. The society we live in isn't really geared for gentle parenting (witness the amount of people who think you should feed to a schedule and that baby should 'fit in with our lives')

And what Arcadia said - all parenting works better with help.

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I know that when I get over this hurdle, I can re-visit gentle parenting, I just hate that it has led to me being as overtired and as insane as I am right now cos I know better.

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I have to say, CC and CIO don't give any guarantees of a good night's sleep - I have done it the other ways & I was still tired & stressed out. At least this way I know she's doing better than me :p
I don't think anyone should beat themselves up though if they need to do things differently for a bit. It's all part of doing what works for you. We all have our limits, I don't know any supermums who don't have a point at which enough is enough! or an area in which they wish they could do better.
And, FWIW what you have done, all your gentle parenting so far IS valuable - don't discount it all & feel like it's worth nothing just because you're burnt out right now. It's the downside of being informed I guess, how you are feeling now - but better to know, and practise it where you can, than not know at all.

:hug: You're doing a wonderful job, and this too shall pass :hug:

Thank you so so much for posting this thread. I've been thinking it was just me who was having trouble sometimes. It's good to know I'm not alone - and that it doesn't make me a failure or a bad mummy!!

:hug: everyone has said it better than I could ever hope to.

But thank you for posting this thread. I think I really needed to read your responses at the moment too.

The 'down side' to gentle parenting is that because our society has become so family un-friendly (so much for work-life balance - unless it involves no family and balancing houseboat trips with work!), it takes more effort to 'hold the space' and shield ourselves from all the pressures we get from all sides!
To me, gentle parenting is my aim, not necessarily what I do all the time. We're all fallible.
I remember one of Pinky's general emails that said if you feel like you "can't cope" it means you're not getting the help you need to do the job you're doing. When DP gets home and sees the house (well, his mum's house where we lived until last Friday...he's still there, he he!) messy and things not done and gets antsy about it, I know that he's on the verge of accusing me of 'not coping'. And I just want to yell "No, I'm not 'coping', so get off my case and just let me parent"! As in, my 'job description' is for parenting, NOT housekeeping...that's a bonus I chuck in when I can, these days ;)
Mate, I've been having some shocking days, lately. DS is really taking off in his personality and with all the pressures until I moved the kids and I to the farm I just couldn't really balance out what DP expected to get done, how MiL was getting peeved with the kids doing their kid things in her house (and the not so subtle indications that she doesn't agree with my parenting, therefore, won't support it), external pressures like bill paying etc. I am now living in a caravan with my kids, but dammit, it's on my own turf, with very little 'housekeeping' and I've had the best 5 days I've had in ages with the two kids. And that's on my own! I thought I'd be a heaving mess by now! DP is due to join us for a couple of weeks next week, so I wonder how that will change the dynamic again. I'm hoping the rest of the week is a good innoculation against whatever negatives he brings with him.
Amazing what taking away some pressure can do. The only aggro I've had is at the pool when DS has tuned me out and nearly drowned his sister...another story...
Ultimately, be true to yourself and to your kids. You are only answerable to them, and one day they'll be asking you about how you raised them, and I reckon you'll be able to hold your head pretty high :hug:

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Ultimately, be true to yourself and to your kids. You are only answerable to them, and one day they'll be asking you about how you raised them, and I reckon you'll be able to hold your head pretty high :hug:

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*nods* this I like... this I think I need to keep in mind.

I love the idea of getting rid of the labels lovely.

I can't call myself a gentle parent - but I also don't believe in harsh parenting (lots of yelling, smacking etc)

If I had to describe my way, it'd be in the middle.

We don't co-sleep - I love my alone time with DH way too much after a full day of cuddling, feeding, playing etc with my 2 babies.

We use sleep "routines" (not schedules) because the thought of having a baby dependant on me to be able to fall asleep and stay asleep didn't appeal to me.

We introduced solids early due to reflux AND because my DD is a little piggy LOL

We use time out, occasionally a "smack" on the bottom if my nearly 3 year old is especially defiant and talking isn't stopping the behaviour. A swift smack on his nappy is normally enough to get him to stop so I can then concentrate on either time out, diverting attention etc/

Darling, there are no "down sides" to parenting if YOU do what's right for YOU xxxx

You know the old saying "it takes a village to raise a child" - well when you get into a situation like this, it's time to call on the village!

Try to take some pressure off yourself and know that you are a beautiful mumma - a wonderful lady and you are doing your best. Don't place unrealistic superwoman expectations on yourself - all that will do is cause you to stress more....

Have you got a good support system around you honey? xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I'm having trouble responding to your wonderful replies, both on a personal level (you have all offered wonderful, supportive, positive and real advice) and on the bigger question which is a very interesting one I think. There is so much to address in all of this and I am not really in a state to organise any of it into any sense!

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You sound isolated and overwhelmed, and frankly very darn lucid for someone so fatigued.

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Thank you for your kind works, I am glad I have come across making reasonable sense as I do feel quite confused!

Honestly, I have thought about this issue a lot, at times when I didn't feel quite so overwhelmed. Mostly it was at times I read other people's posts about feeling lost in the world of parenting, at the end of their tether, and have at times replied with support. It is good to have threads like these sometimes so that those of us going through the challenges realise and remember that it is common, normal and to be expected. (:hug: Shades, CheezleMonster and Ozziehoffy and anyone else reading this and nodding your head).

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We get pretty good at making it look like we are coping and have our act together when really we are like a duck on water - calm as anything above the water but paddling furiously beneath it.

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This is exactly the truth. I can't count the number of people who have said I look great/together/doing well in the last few weeks. Right at a time when I feel at my wits end! (I blame the sugar! - I recently gave up sugar and have never felt better for it so I hate to think how I would be traveling if I was still 'on the stuff'!!)

I do feel strongly about sharing our bad times as much as we do our good times so have made it clear to those around me that I am struggling. I have received lots of supportive encouragement which has been a blessing - just knowing that people know and understand can make the difference between making it through the day or falling in a heap. Practical help is a little more difficult to line up though isn't it?

Having said that, my little breakdown last night did have a happy resolution. Felt better for getting it out here and Dh and I negotiated an answer to the sleep issue. He took the first shift and I got the second. I slept on the couch and managed to get 6 straight hours for the first time in MONTHS! What a difference, new woman here!

I think it is important to get past the issue of labels though because that is not really what this is about. Labels can sometimes make life easier as they can clarify things, but on the flipside, they can alienate and weigh heavily too. I guess for me, the label gentle parenting makes things simple as I can 'grasp' what it is that I want to do/be but it is not the be all and end all. I hate to think that it makes me feel like I have all the answers. It is just that "low point" I am interested in/struggling with and think it helps to work through.

I guess my original question and the title of this post should be changed to "the down side to having ideas about how you want to parent"!!

I realise that this does sound as if I have very high standards and am putting undue pressure on myself. I think this is a pretty normal thing but do recognise that it can be detrimental if it becomes too overbearing. It can be such a fine line really.

I know my children will survive and not suffer for what has gone down around us for the last few weeks/months but it is pretty heartbreaking to loose it completely in front of your children and then have your 3 year old look at you frightened and say "take a big breath mummy, then you will feel better" breaks my heart. Then, to watch her replay out my little tantrum, complete with the swearing, at her little sister for touching her toys :shakehead:

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all your gentle parenting so far IS valuable - don't discount it all & feel like it's worth nothing just because you're burnt out right now. It's the downside of being informed I guess, how you are feeling now - but better to know, and practise it where you can, than not know at all.

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You are right and I do hold on to that thought. I do believe that all the work I have done to this point is a great foundation and it is good to be reminded of it right now. I think you have actually summarised my entire point here with your statement how I am feeling now is the downside to being informed.


I guess I also feel really angry that I don't have the support I want and need. Disappointed in myself and in my DH for letting me down. That is part of being a parent too I guess, working through these issues.

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I remember one of Pinky's general emails that said if you feel like you "can't cope" it means you're not getting the help you need to do the job you're doing.

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Right on! Parenting is never ment to be a solitary exercise and our society is pretty crazy arranaging itself in nuclear families, then expecting parents to head out of the house to work without the support networks in place that children flourish under. :shakehead:

As I mentioned before, there are a lot of wonderful words in this thread, I am sitting on many of them and feeling better, inspired...

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To me, gentle parenting is my aim, not necessarily what I do all the time. We're all fallible.

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I like it.

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You are right and I do hold on to that thought. I do believe that all the work I have done to this point is a great foundation and it is good to be reminded of it right now. I think you have actually summarised my entire point here with your statement how I am feeling now is the downside to being informed.

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I am another for who this thread has come at a good time, but also probably too sleep deprived to be able to add much constructive info to the discussion.

This reminded me of a time when i was posting through frustration about birth issues and was questioning educating myself and said that maybe ignorance was bliss, cos those who didn't seem to know or care didn't seem to hurt as much. Inanna posted and said that "Ignorance is just ignorance" and not a good thing. At first i was bit irritated but then i realised it's so true (and it has stuck with me) and i know staying ignorant wouldn't work for me anyway, and reading your posts i don't think it would be work for you either.

Just briefly: Will it only work with support? I have to no doubt! We have just moved interstate to gain more support from family. My DH rejected the need for support until last year. We were living in Melbourne... pretty much in isolation from our extended family... and the universe chose to teach a lesson: bam bam bam we were hit with event after event that made DH realise that we just couldn't keep trying to raise our 3 kids without help from our family. So he finally agreed to seek work in rural NSW. The thing was... and don't want to scare you... but you don't just need support when the kids are little. We needed the most support with our teenage DD! So here we are. My kids are in almost daily contact with my extended family and it's been great. All our values are being reinforced (and my kids now realise we aren't the only ones saying something they don't want to hear!), and our minds are at ease knowing that if anything happens at 3am my sister etc is only minutes away to help... as we are for them.

Is the grass always greener?
If I let my son cry for hours, would we really have gotten more sleep?
And why do discussions of parenting styles and methods always come back to sleep anyway? Do we guage our parenting 'success' or how well something 'works' by how much sleep we get?
Parenting to me is the long game - it's ultimately about raising children who will be caring, considerate and productive members of society as adults.
So I can't fail as a parent because my son took 2 years to learn to self settle. And I can't fail just because I yelled and swore at him the other day. I can see signs that I'm heading in the right direction when he rushes to cuddle his little sister if she's crying.

BUT, I feel like utter **** when I haven't slept properly for months. But that is not a failure of my parenting - that's a failure of the context in which I parent. If affects my day-to-day parenting (unfortunately), but it doesn't define me.

:yeahthat:

Sleep is not a metric of our success as parents. In fact our cultural value of uninterrupted sleep is actually part of the problem. We all need sleep, but why does it have to be at night and in solid blocks? I have never felt more rested, and it's because I have finally learnt the art of napping. Sleep when toddler does, why playschool is on, when dh is home etc. It has taken some time though and I have been forced to let go of my perceived ideas of 'achieving' things in the day.

I think information and education are wonderful things, but I blame both for my own feelings of inadequacy at times. It's hard to go from a career to sahm, and harder to just be present with your kids and snatch at sleep, rather than participate in the wider cultural context of work/play/sleep. This is why mayaness says we have a family unfriendly society...our society is geared towards economics and the idea of maximizing working hours...

It's ridiculous most of us don't see our dh or dp for twelve hours a day.

Isolation is such a killer.

:grouphug: for everyone. I am loving this thread and I will revisit it when I start to muddle my way through parenting two kids. This time though, I will accept and ask for more help. I proved nothing but my own fallibility by doing it alone with dd...that and the limits of my mind as I tried to keep it together for us all.

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There is no such thing as a perfect parent, just like there's no perfect child.

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Great advice :clap:
You're doing a wonderful job, you just need some time out and sounds like you could do with some "me" time.....what are things you enjoy? :)

eta - I found around 8mths of age was a really challenging time of parenting for us!! DD's sleep went totally haywire and I was absolutely exhausted, for months...... you will get through this chick xx

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Isolation is such a killer.

:grouphug: for everyone. I am loving this thread and I will revisit it when I start to muddle my way through parenting two kids. This time though, I will accept and ask for more help. I proved nothing but my own fallibility by doing it alone with dd...that and the limits of my mind as I tried to keep it together for us all.

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:yeahthat: me too!! I didn't have much help with DD but I've asked for more help this time around when bub #2 comes along.....I have to let my guards down and accept help instead of saying "im ok" all the time!!!! :lol:

:hug: Like many others have said, do whatever works for you I'm sure if you gentle parent 90% of the time and resort to other methods the rest your child will still feel that amazing bond with you. Support has also been mentioned. I'd have to agree with that. If dh wasn't home most of the time I'd be struggling with fatigue. I'm only 4 and a half months into being a mum but DS is till waking a few times a night for feeds, anywhere from 2-4 hours sleep in a row. Just this week I've had my mothers group scoffing at us co-sleeping and how DS is probably waking because he can smell me :rolleyes: whatever I say, I want him to smell me and to wake up every morning to dh and I smiling at him

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I want him to smell me and to wake up every morning to dh and I smiling at him

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That is beautiful. Cherish those moments...before long you'll have a leggy toddler taking up the bed...

I find gentle parenting has been a hard but very fulfilling journey. Nudie sleeps in the day with dd are one of our simple pleasures...

It's so hard when you're in the thick of it though...

Thank you for all of your posts in this thread, they have been invaluable to me, helping me work through some things and have held my hand during a difficult time. I wanted to say thanks earlier but our Internet was down so i have been unable to pop back in.

I had a meeting with the MCHN which was very helpful and a chat with other friends who have been through similar stuff. That plus a big talk with the staff at a sleep school has highlighted to me how close I am to going under. I can see that i am close to suffering from, if not already in the grips if PND and it is scary.

The last few days have been a blur of fog, tears, snapping, screaming at the kids, fury at my partner, sleeplessness and gut wrenching fear that I don't think i have any more in me. I think the only thing that has saved me and will save me from things getting worse is facing up to the challenges, thinking through the things i have posted here and getting some perespective from everyone (both here and in real life). I can see that head down and keep going is such an easy path to depression when things are like this so i am trying to keep a check, keep perspective, keep talking and keep asking for help. I hate to think where I would be without that.

I did post earlier that the downside to being informed is that you risk feeling so much more devestated when thngs don't work out, i think that being so sleep deprived can colour one's ability to take that sort of feeling with the necessary grain of salt. I feel I have lost my perspective. Still, one good thing about being informed is that i have been able to recognize very quickly when things are getting beyond just bad for me and know to take steps to help myself.

Thank you though to you for your hands out help in working through this.
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