9 wks old, when does it get easier?

Up until 6 weeks we had dramas with attachment and pain, and then we hit the 6 week mark and it all just fell nicely into place. I had it under control, no pain, great latch. This however only lasted a couple of weeks! For the past week my nipples have been so sensitive and painful. I think she has her latch right, it looks and feels ok. But that being said I am not 100% sure?! I am back to taking panadol and dreading each feed.

After feeding my nipples look pinched, like yellowish if that makes sense?

We have also been battling oral thrush for going on four weeks now. Just as it seems to ease up, it comes back again. I am doing everything right. Airing out the nipples, hot washing/sun drying bras daily, nilstat (onto 3rd bottle which I dont want to have to use!), daktarin, soaking dummies in boiling water after each use, probiotics for me, downing natural greek yoghurt like its going outta fashion and even giving her tongue a gentle scrape with a clean cotton tip after each feed. I think the thrush is the best I have had it at so far, so cant understand why now this would be causing me pain?

I feel like breastfeeding so far has been nothing but a drama and I really have not been enjoying it. I dont understand the whole bonding thing with it either, I just cant wait for her to finish each feed. If only the pain would stop and then I could maybe learn to like breastfeeding!!! I am only sticking this out because she is such a content little baby, 3 hrs between feeds, fantastic at night (so jinxed myself now), no gut/wind issues like DD1 had on formula and obviously because I know its the best thing for her and she likes it so how can I take it away from her? Also I have a couple of people I want to prove wrong. But seriously I am hanging on by a very fine thread now...

Hi,
I just wanted to say that it sounds like you are doing a wonderful job. Sorry to hear about your difficulties with breastfeeding. I stuck with bf with my DS because I thought I 'should' and he ended up losing weight and going on the bottle at 6 months old. He weaned himself off and took to the bottle immediately. I think it all depends on what is best for mum and baby. If you are happy to keep perserving, then give it a go, who knows you both might find your feet again. However, if you find it no good for the both of you or it is affecting your parenting then ditch it. Either way and you both will be fine. Best of luck with it all!

The thing is, she is gaining weight! And she is happy between feeds. So that part of it is going right for us. Its just the pain. :(

And I deep down think chucking it in will be what gets me down, because I really want to breastfeed. I just want the pain to end ahhh!

Thanks for listening :)

Hi, there,

It sounds like you are going through a rough period. Usually thrush clears up quickly when treated - I think that it is very likely that what you have now is not thrush (it may have been so initially, but probably isn't now) It might be good to go back to see an LC at this point.
Early breastfeeding can be tough - it really is worth persisting, and it really does get better. Mothers don't have to "pu up" with discomfort. It is likely that you have had other challenges in your life - learning to drive a car for intance. Remember how difficult that seemed? How you kangaroo hopped down the road? Now I bet you don't give it another thought. It will be the same with breastfeeding soon. But you do need the right support (just like you needed quite a few driving lessons) before it just became second nature.

Damn. I'm really sorry to hear you're still having troubles.
Try to remember how good it was when things fell into place - you can have that again.
Your DD is obviously doing really well, so good job! The pain could well be due to the thrush - maybe get some more advice about ways to get rid of it. It can be a real bugger to get rid of. We're still trying here too, but thankfully no pain for me.

It sounds like you want to keep perserving, it is worth it and the bond is special once you are both settled in well. Barb's advice was wondeful, please do get help to sort out your issue so that bf can be enjoyable.

Can only offer hugs hon... Hope it gets better soon xxx

I had a few struggles with pain the the early weeks with my DD, i wasn't expecting it at all as i'd already sucessfully breastfed my two boys. It just goes to show that feeding each individual can be very different. I too would cringe on attachment for each feed, when she was done my nipple would be squashed and i also had a blister on one nipple for a little bit there. Thoughts of whether or not i'd be successful at feeding her entered my mind but i was determind not to give up.

I have just recently at 3 months of age been thinking how i now feel no pain and feeding is really quite enjoyable. For us it was definately attachment and once we had that figured out and i think my nipples were able to adjust to DD's attachment we were much better so if you can bare it i'd definately say hang on a little longer.

I'm not sure if Barb as a professional would recommend this but i was in the line at the chemist ready to purchase nipple shields when a lady said to try the Rite Aid gel breastpads, they where really soothing and helped with the painful blister. It may or may not work for you but it did help me. You should be able to buy them at your local supermarket.

Stick at it a little longer and hopefuly once you are able to eliminate thrush and any other issues you will be able to enjoy your breastfeeding you little one.

Good luck :)

I didn't ever love it either, but ended up feeding for about 18 months. It's ok not to love it. ;) I found the first 3 months hard tbh. But i would be going back to get that pain checked out. If it wasn't painful, then sounds like everything else is going well. So if you can get on top of the pain things will be easier. 3 bottles of nilstat is a lot. If it hasn't worked after the first bottle then maybe the dr can recommend something else. OR maybe it's not thrush, it's something else that's why not responding to the treatment? :dunno:

Hang in there, you are putting in an awesome effort.

Hi Isadora,

Don't forget you can call the breastfeeding helpline (1800 Mum2Mum) anytime. They can support you over the phone and they can put you in contact with your local group, and you will be able to talk to a counsellor face-to-face.

I was at a seminar about pain in breastfeeding the other day. If you are tense or anxious about the feeds, it is likely to hurt more. How would you rate your usual pain threshold? The pain that you experience when feeding - how would you rate it is intensity (1 being low, 10 high)? How would you rate your comfort? Is it pain all through the feed, or just at the beginning?
How is your back? Drop your shoulders, breathe deeply and look forward to the feed for the goodness it brings to your baby (who by the sounds of it, is doing really well - you are doing really well). Focus on each feed as it comes. Not the last feed or the next feed. Do you know about baby-led attachment?

xo

sorry to hear things are challenging at the moment.

there are some great suggestions already and i just wanted to reiterate what junglemum said - it's ok not to love it. i posted that sort of thing a few times. i felt a bit guilty for not loving it but in the end the months passed without me really noticing & i just weaned my DS last week at 20 months.

I wanted to be able to breastfeed so bad and even joined the ABA before I had bubs to make sure I stuck with it. Well nobody told me that I would get nipple vasospasm & thrush like I did and I could only manage to breastfeed for 4 weeks. 2 of those weeks I expressed every feed. I also saw a lactation consultant three times to make sure attachment was good. She actually said that she had never seen as perfect "Special K lips" as my son had so I know that his attachment was perfect and not the problem.

My plan to breastfeed exclusively did not work but the best decision I made was for me to get better. I know that if I kept breastfeeding the way I was (in tears at every feed) then I would have lost my sanity. There are two ways to feed a baby - breast or bottle feed and in the end, I chose bottlefeeding because it was right for me at that time. I would do it all over again if I had the choice.
You have done a great job Isadora to feed your bubs for 9 weeks - it may get easier as others have said. I didn't get as far as you but good luck with your breastfeeding journey :)

Just wanted to give you some big :hug: BF and sleep deprivation is so hard :( Hope it get's better for you soon xox

yes. it does get easier! that's the crux of it love. I had a bumpy BF ride too and, while i feel immense guilt in saying this, was so relieved when my boy weaned at 7months BUT things do get easier and you get into a rhythm, so does bubs.

have you seen a LC? maybe you can go to an ABA meeting and get them to check attachment if that's what you think may be the cause of the pain? and also get that thrush checked out again sweets.

have you considered using a pump? When i got an infected and very sore nipple i pumped for a bit from that sore side to give my nipple a rest. And i do know there are ladies that completely pump to feed their LO, which I think is amazing and such a huge commitment that i'm in awe of those mummies :)

While I didn't 'love' bf, I am glad i stuck with it and after a few months things improved and I did start to enjoy it... watching your gorgeous little bub as they feed (without pain or crying) is bliss.

I hope things improve for you. and Yay for the sleeping! so she's obviously getting plenty of good milk from you! you are doing a fantastic job!!!! At the end of the day, you need to decide what is best for YOU as well as your bubs - and remember there is no right or wrong way and you WILL make the best decision for your baby- because you are a great mummy.

not sure if any of that helps but big fat hugs to you oxoxo

Oh thanks so much ladies, you bring me to tears!

I am not giving up just yet. I think I really need to remember baby led attachment, as it really works well. I just forget, especially at 3am when I am tired, and kinda just get her to open her mouth and then I bring her to the breast, instead of letting her attach herself.

grub17 - I think I will feel that same relief when DD weans too haha! I am not a breastfeeding fan. Then again its probably too early to say that, especially with the dramas involved with it for me.

Nelly4 - I too put my first on formula, I just could not get past the pain. Thats why I am even more determined second time around. But thank you for reassuring me that formula is ok!

Catherine - Thank you for reminding me to relax. The pain is definately not toe curling like in the first couple of weeks, but its enough to be uncomfortable and to know that something is not right.

Madb - Hope you get rid of your thrush soon! Its so darn resilient!!

JM - Yes 3 bottles of nilstat is no good. Thats why I havent cracked open that third bottle yet!! Just doing the daktarin atm.

EJ - You reminded me that I have those rite aid gel pads in the bathroom, will whip them out. So it took you around 3 months to be comfy feeding?

Barb - Thankyou, may be time to take another trip back to the LC.

Thank you ladies. Trying to keep positive about this!

You really are dong a great job Isa. X

:grouphug: It does get easier! Your babies mouth is getting bigger and bigger and your own knowledge of breastfeeding is growing with every feed. YOU are the expert in your body and your baby and you CAN do this if you want to (and it sounds like you're doing brilliantly bar the pain).

Ok, so you said your nipple looks squshed after a feed? Is it a lipstick shape? Have you read anything on vasospasm? The symptoms are similar to thrush, but it is a blood flow issue. Have a look on the net and see what you think. I had vasospams that lasted easily 6 weeks and it was pretty hellish...for me it was a nipple trauma thing...so one bad night of attachment and then I'd suffer.

I would recommend calling the ABA 1800-MUM-2-MUM as well for more advice or support when you need. I remember calling them in absolute floods of tears and the lady was so helpful.

Perhaps different positions might help? Football, cradel, lying down etc. Your bub is obviously getting enough milk, but you WILL feed pain free again soon.

Oh and nipple sheilds until your nipples heal a bit might help???

Good luck. Keep us updated!

Hi,
just wanted to offer support. I'm having some issues with this bub but with DD1 i had a very similar experience. I thought i had thrush and so did the doctor and gave me Difllucan tablets on pbs as otherwise they are around $300 i think but are supposed to work the best. Anyway the doc also did a swab and it actually turned out that i had a staph infection in both nipples so needed AB. Apparently the symptoms are very similar to thrush. Are your nipples cracked? Unfortunately for me DD had a high arch palette and short frenulum so damaged my nipples constantly and i kept getting staph so i expressed for 6mths. Maybe check with a LC to make sure there is nothing physical going on.

When i thought i had thrush i rang the ABA and there was a thrush specialist i was able to call who gave me heaps of ideas and info so if it is thrush it might me worth doing.
GL

For middle of the night feeds you may find attaching with you both lying down works better - it's worth a try.
I found that when my bub was 3 months old things started to hurt - he'd got strong enough that the imperfect attachment that we had was now causing problems.

If your nipples come out a funny shape then the attachment isn't right - in our case I had to get more of the underside of my nipple in his mouth. I went to a lactation day stay, and the nurse there picked it up.

Arcadia - From what I read I dont think its vasospasm, but I definately get blanched, lipstick shaped nipples from bad attachment.

So I think the thrush has now gone, and i'm sure the pain is from dodgy attachment. I have spent the past couple of days really focusing on each feed and pulling her off when the attachment is uncomfy - which I do a bit unfortunately. And my nipples have healed a bit. Though I still cant get attachment 100%. I guess I have come to the conclusion that this is the best possible attachment we can get at this age, and hopefully with time/age it only gets easier?

All of that being said, I feel so darn confused and emotional. Trying to keep positive but I just keep thinking how much I dislike breastfeeding.

The pros for me are:
- She is gaining weight. And people come over, hold her, and say wow she is definately bigger and heavier.
- She feeds 3 hourly during the day and pulls longer stints at night.
- I barely have to burp her, even at night feeds. She just goes back to bed easily. I remember spending up to and hour with my first during the night trying to just make her burp (on formula), she would grunt and groan till she did. Breastmilk just seems much easier to digest!
- She is happy!!!!
- I know full well the health benefits it provides for her!

The cons:
- It hurts.
- My boobs are constantly aching and leaking.
- I hate the engorged, lumpy feeling.
- I feel frustrated and unhappy. I even feel frustrated with my innocent baby.
- I feel chained to the baby.
- I dont feel the bonding side to bfeeding, I just cant wait for her to finish each feed.
- I feel selfish and guilty.

I just wanted to write that, more for myself. But thanks to anyone who reads and understands.

For now I will continue to chug along....

oh im sorry you are going through a tough time. I understand how you feel. i really wanted to breastfeed but had huge dramas with his attachment as he wasn't sucking etc, and then got Mastitis which hung around for weeks.
i persisted for what seemed like months when it was actually only 3 weeks, before making the decision to switch to formula. i was so upset and felt sooo guilty that i was depriving my baby of breastmilk because i couldnt handle the pain.
but those feeds seem to come around really fast when you are in agony. and i was dreading my baby waking up. so in the end it was about both of us being happy and enjoying each other instead of me bawling my eyes out all the time.my nipples hurt more than labour itself!!
so remember, its not the end of the world if you choose to stop, especially if you really dont like it. but you are doing so well persisting. i wish i could have persisted.

This is going to sound very nasty, but please get some professional help with attachment now.
Over the next month or so your babies mouth will grow (i.e. attachment should get better), but she will also get a much stronger mouth (i.e. damage from poor attachment will get worse).
I think you need to explore options like:
*joining the ABA and taking bub along to a few meetings where people can help you with attachment
*seeing a lactation consultant (it is likely that one session would fix this)
*lactation clinics or day stays in your area

At 9 weeks, unless you have huge nipples or bub has a really tiny mouth or a very high palate, there shouldn't be attachment issues.

You've hurt for long enough - get some help please!

I'd be going back to the LC Is.
It can and does get easier, it really does. Try not to focus on how much you dislike it - it's just another thing that mummies do that they may not love all that much. Do you enjoy wiping pooy bottoms or cleaning up spew? I know I don't, but I don't think about it too much and just do it.
You don't have to love breastfeedign to do it, it's just a way to feed your baby. You do it and then you do the next thing you have to do.

It's great to hear how well she's thriving! I really hope you can sort these issues out very soon :hug:

i'd def agree with the PP re-working on attachment now. would you consider going to a local ABA class/meeting or getting an LC in again? it is a matter of trial & error - i felt like it took me ages to get right but once it is sorted out, the feeds are far less uncomfortable.

i know it seems draining now, but i promise it does ease - soon your baby will feed a bit less & even if they don't, you will find you can do other things at the same time that make feeds less stressful - for me, it took a while but once we were going really well, i'd read a book when i was feeding. other people seem to master feeding in a sling so they can still do chores or play with their other children.

don't feel selfish or guilty for feeling the way you do. there are plenty of us who feel/felt the same way. if you choose to keep going, we're here to support you & offer any advice we can

:hug:

MadB - I know, I'm being so negative about the whole thing, it isnt helping the situation is it! I am trying to keep positive.

Kmn - Not nasty at all, you are very right. I certainly dont have huge nipples, I barely have boobs lol.

Thank you girls you are all so full of advice. I feel like a selfish drama queen lately.

I am going to try to see the LC I saw a few weeks back, she put me back on the right path so hopefully she can do it again.

That being said, for the past couple of days I have really being focusing on each feed and ensuring a good attachment. I think I got a bit too relaxed too early on and didnt check attachment as much - hence the sore nipples came back. But since keeping an eye on things, my nipples are much better. I also notice she is opening her mouth much wider, as I have been pulling her off alot to start again. Frustrating but necessary. Now when she opens her mouth, she can get her bottom lip just past the outline of the areola iykwim? And it is fine when she does that. But I think she is used to not having to open as wide and after a few sucks, she pulls her bottom lip closer to the nipple :wall: Thats when I detach and start again. If I keep doing this will she get it eventually?

I think they are going to ban me from BB soon, such a drama queen!!!

No, this is great! You sound better today :) I know with DD we had trouble at the start. A bit of a rough start, which meant she had to be retaught and I popped her on and off and coaxed her over and over to open her mouth. At first I wasn't sure that it woudl ever work - I was so disappointed to start this way - but by 3 weeks we pretty much had it.
Anyway, yes, she will learn. Hopefully very soon you won't have to think about it, she'll just go on by herself while you compose shopping lists or something more interesting.

You are not a drama queen! I am just really happy for you that you are having such a good go at it.

Keep posting as much as you need to.

With dd1, she was pretty tiny so I had a few probs getting her on. It seemed like ages before her mouth was big enough for her to get a good attachment on her own, but we got there. And then it was easy. I could feed while doing just about anything! You'll get there. X

I know this isn't your purpose in posting, but i have learnt so much about breastfeeding that has helped me and friends of mine who have wanted to breastfeed from reading other people's stories who have had difficulties and tried different things. I don't think you are a drama queen, and it is so great to hear that you are having some really good feeds now. I also had to do the detach, attach again (and again...) but bub worked it out and it was so much better.

She will get it !
When she does "get it" are you getting nipple-shaped-nipples after the feed??

And in this bit of BB we like drama queens - because it means that you are giving your best efforts to feeding your bub in the best way you can. And as Kate said - everybody learns.

hi isa
i second what other people have said about getting the LC back out just to check how things are going.
it's great that you're coming on here and talking about it and getting some support. just remember there may be some other new mum out there that is struggling and following all this and getting support from it too, just not posting about it xoxo

Thank you so much girls. I am hanging in there. I have an appt tomorrow afternoon with the LC who pulled me through last time, so hopefully she can do it again. My nipples are a tad sore this morning, but had a bit of a dodgy night feed. This was due to being so engorged when she finally woke, poor thing has to gulp and my attempts at keeping her mouth wide open are poor!
Just had a big cry on the phone to my mum. She told me I can only do my best and at the end of the day 9-10 weeks of feeding has given her a good start. Obviously I am trying to go longer than this though.

Huge hugs!! :hug:

Breastfeeding can be hard work because of all the changes your body goes through...the engorgement, leaking tenderness etc, but you've come so far! Your supply really settles down around 12 weeks and it gets easier and easier.

The worst is seriously behind you! You CAN do this if you choose...you ARE doing it!!! Each feed, each day is an achievement!!!!

Please keep us updated. You will be inspiring so many other mums who are struggling through pain.

Crying and breastfeeding go hand in hand for me...it's the way my hormones work. I found twelve weeks a huge milestone and much of it settled.

:hug: