Need some hope right now

My little one is 16 days old and we haven't got breast feeding established partly due to the pain factor but mostly now due to plain difficulty of getting him attached properly. I am expressing around the clock for feeds in the hope that I can get BF established in the near future. I'm now seeing a couple of different services to get support for BF but I find that I can do it with the LC support but not when I get home. I just can't get the attachment right. The whole thing sees me just end up in tears.

The stress is beginning to affect the bond I have my bub but I'm not ready to give up on BF just yet. I"m not sure how much longer I can go on trying to get the attachment right.

Does anyone have any stories of hope for late establishment of attachment? I'm worried that I will have to make a decision of either remaining an expresser or having to move onto FF.

The only advise I have is stick with it. Does bub have a tongue tie or anything to hinder attachment?

I applaud you sticking to your guns!

I hope that you get the help. Breastfeeding doesnt always come perfectly at first. Stick at it!

You're doing a fantastic job :)

:hug: Its so tough in those early days hun but it will get better...have you tried nipple shields? Have you spoken to the ABA? they have a hotline you can ring and maybe you could see a lactation consultant. :hug: Hopefully Barb will come in and give you some wonderful advice xx

Sorry to hear you're having a rough time. It can take a while to get things sorted, unfortunately. My DS was the same - always performing well for the LCs :wall:
Perhaps you could get a recommendation for another LC? Sometiems you ahve to see a few bbefore you find one who somehow knows just what you need. You can also try the ABA (if you haven't already) - 1800-686-2-686 or in person at your local group meetings.

Have you tried infant-led attachment? Basically you lay baby between your breasts and let him find his own way. They're hard wired to find their way to the breast and latch on and often when things aren't workign well getting back to basics like this can really help. Try this ABA LINK for details.

It can take a while to get things working right. With DS it was 11 weeks before he could attach comfortably and I used nipple shields for much of that time. :hug: I hope you get there soon

Oh Lisa B you poor thing. I can so relate to the pain you are currently going through. But would urge you to keep going as it WILL all come together - might not be tomorrow or the next week but it will happen. If you do a search under my name you will see the ridulous numbers of posts I did about establishing breast feeding with my LO and also just how supportive everyone on here was.

I just couldn't get DS to actually suck when he did attach so we had low weight gains and a very sleepy baby that I had to wake to feed. As a result of him not sucking my supply dried up so ended up expressing round the clock to restore supply. Very very tiring but worth it if you want to persevere. The LC I saw also got me to get a script from my doctor for Motillium which helps build supply. You are doing the right thing by seeing an LC and most of them will also give you phone support after they have seen you.

Where I am in NSW there was also breast feeding support groups run by the local health services that I could drop into and I would also suggest contacting the Australian Breastfeeding Association (ABA) they have a 24 hour support line that you can ring for those times that it all becomes too much. Their number is 1800 686 2 686 or 1800 mum 2 mum. They are national. They also have local support groups which meet up on regular basis and when you phone the help line they can give you the contact number for your local leader. If you are suffering pain on attachment it would normally mean that the attachment isn't correct so it might be worth while considering a nipple shield until your baby is a little bit bigger. I used one until DS was about 3 months old.

I would like to think I am a prime example of how perseverence can pay off. DS is 18 months old and we are only now looking to stop breastfeeding. Down to 1 feed in the morning now which I think he is now ready to drop. It really can work and I personally I think it can make it so much more special if it doesn't come easy as you know then that all the hard work paid off.

In saying that a happy Mummy is the best Mummy and they are only little for such a short time so if you continue to try and it isn't working and you find it too upsetting them its the best thing to maybe comp feed or switch to formula. Whatever decision you make will be the right one for you and your special little baby.

Feel free to PM me if you would like to chat more.

Big big hugs. You are doing such a good job.

Xx

Hi,
It is so distressing when circumstances mean your baby doesn't attach well to the breast. I'm sure that if you wanted to share with us there is a *story* behind what you are currently experiencing. It is my firmly held belief (from a lot of experience) that with tme and patience all babies will go to the breast. It often takes time and patience to get to that point - but it will happen. It can help to do some detective work to find out what the problem is, and then enlist some expert help to help you find the solution. Often mums feel like they are in a pressure cooker - having to get it right - quickly. People often tell a new mum *you have to make a decision* - but the fact is, you don't. You have time on your side.

:hug: My DD has a high palate. It took us 10 weeks to over come our hurdles.
Its hard, but you just have to keep fighting x

My DS was attaching properly but would fall asleep within a few minutes only to wake not long after and want to continue the feed. Nothing I did helped (like stripping him, tickling him, changing his nappy (or pretending to do so) etc). I decided to express (I had already bought a pump before DS was born) and fed him exclusively from the bottle from about week 2 until he was 2 months old. Then I got sick of the time doubling up (expressing time and then feeding time with bottle) so one day out of the blue (when he was 2 months old) I decided to breastfeed him.

He got it pretty quickly and I just had to get past the pain factor (of the sensitive nipples) which subsided after 3 days. I almost gave up in those first couple of days and would cringe if he came off or before I attached him because of the pain I knew I was going to go through. Sure enough though after 3 days it was much much better and by the end of the week, no pain at all.

We still gave him one bottle of EBM at night before bed.

We continued until he was 7 months old.

So, in summary, my DS just proves it is possible that you can express and feed exclusively from the bottle from such a young age and for 2 months and then reestablish breastfeeding.

In saying this I would recommend that you continue to try to resolve the problem/s and push through (there is light at the end of the tunnel) but if it doesn't work I wouldn't get too upset about expressing. You are still giving your baby your breastmilk. Try to enjoy the closeness that you still have when bottle feeding the breast milk. Afterall, it's still your milk that you are giving them and you still have to work hard to get it.

Good luck - it gets better!

Thanks for sharing and giving me some hope. I did about 3-4 feeds today using a nipple shield and the infant led style. I'm still not sure if the attachment is correct because bub was very fussy and throwing himself off during the feeds. At the end of most feeds I ended up giving a little EBM. I guess it's a start. I'm also seeing another LC tomorrow so hoping it goes well.

Nes - gosh 2 months on the pump, you are a champ! I take heart in the pain dulling down after 3 days for you.

Clover - 10 weeks, wow good on you for pushing on.

Barb - thanks for reinforcing that time is on my side.

NW3 - I've just started exploring the nipple shield and today did some feeds with it and found the attachment so much easier. I did have a MCHN tell me that be careful because they can use it like a dummie so I still feel a bit confused if it is the right thing or not.

MadB - yes as I mentioned to NW3 I've just started trying with the nipple shields. Lol...yes it always seems much easier when with the LC. I'm trying someone else tomorrow so crossing my fingers...so exxy! Oh, and I've also been doing some of the infant led attachment today and I've got him on but I'm not sure if it is a good attachment or not as he throws himself off after about 10 minutes.

Boomba - nipple shields seems to be a common theme here!

Lisa - thanks for you support and kind words.

I used sheilds in those 10 weeks too :)

I wouldn't worry about any problems arising from them. You could have more problems with a bottle then a sheild, because the flow is faster & they don't have to work as hard, so they start to prefer the bottle, but this isn't always the case!

I had the same problems with all mine, but with DD1 & DD2 I gave up. I had no support to push on.
With DS I had that help & support. With both him & DD3 our problems (cracks etc non stop) just disappeared when they were 5 kgs. It was 6 weeks for DS & 10 weeks for DD.

great to hear that today was positive- well done!

Good luck tomorrow, have confidence, you are showing so much strength and love for your little fella, remember to share some for yourself as well xxxx

Hi,
To me, a nipple shield is just like any other tool we use to ultimately get breastfeeding happening. It's good to get some-one to check your technique when using one, but if you can hear swallowing and if you can see milk in the shield, and your breasts are feeling softer after a feed, and your little one is weeking and pooing, then it's working just fine. Nipple shields often allow a baby who has been prem or has had a difficult birth to breastfeed, where the next alternative would be to express and perhaps bottle feed. Most mothers use it with their baby for a short time and then don't need it any more. LCs seem expensive, but if they help you achieve successful breastfeeding the cost is very moderate. You are probably doing better with your little one that you even know

We didn't have attachment issues, but BF was SO painful. Everyone said it was all going fine and they didn't know why I was getting the grazing. I had to just grin and bear it and then when the grazing finally fully healed without coming back, it was all perfect! It took the full 6 weeks for me to actually feel that we had achieved breastfeeding itms?
DD was feeding every 20minutes, I never left the couch, and she just cried all the time, I really felt like there was something wrong, but that 6 week mark was some kind of magic turning point.
You are doing so well, and good on you for keeping it up! Just hang in there, use plenty of lanolin on your nipples, get a shield if you need, use every tool you can, and you will get there!

Thought I would just give an update. I saw the LC today and she kind of went with my style of getting DS on the breast and supported the use of the nipple shield for at least the next couple of weeks. So far we've had 2 BF today including when the LC visited. I'm still not sure why DS is grizzly after the feeds and throws himself off every 10 minutes or so. When I feed EBM via bottle he usually goes to sleep after the feeds so I'm not sure what is going on.

I'm aiming to finish the day out with BF and try at least one overnight.

That's good Lisa, one step at a time!

Well done you're doing great. One step (feed) at a time is the best way to approach it. Good to hear the nipple shields seem to be helping. As Barb said they're a tool that can be used to get breast feeding started and hopefully at some stage in the future you won't need to use them. Once we were a few weeks in my LC used to try to get me to slip it off once he was sucking away - worked sometime and didn't work others! (Mainly worked when she was there - lol!). So I just continuing using them until one day we were both confident enough not to use them any more.

Just another update on my journey.

I couldn't finish the day out yesterday with BF due to DS refusing to take the breast. I was very disappointed, frustrated and had a cry when I was expressing. The good news is that I did 2 feeds overnight very easily instead of expressing. Today I did 2 BF in the morning - 1 with the hospital LC. This afternoon I had issues with DS thrashing in the afternoon but he was overall a bit more receptive to the breast than he was yesterday afternoon. So, I have been BF all day with probably 3/4 feeds.

The LC has suggested that i offer top up feeds with EBM as DS weight gain wasn't quite up to scratch. I really want to get off the express train but it seems it will take a bit longer.

What an awesome job you are doing Lisa! Inspiring.

xo

Well done Lisa you are doing such a fanastic job. The expressing is tiring but is worth it as it can get a little bit more into him which makes him stronger which means he is able to take a little bit more from the breast. I found that it did get easier over the weeks and worked out the best times for expressing when my supply was at its fullest so I didn't feel like I was expressing round the clock.

You should be so proud of yourself hun what you are doing for your little man. Well done Xx

Hi Lisa, how are you going with it all now? My bub is 12 weeks old now, and attachment has only become much easier as of almost two weeks ago. Its such a long road at the start and breastfeeding is not easy!!! But if you can stick it out you will get there. Check out baby led attachment as that helped me so much.

Hi Isadora,

Thanks for asking after me. We are still pretty much at the same place: starting with BF and ending with EBM. He falls asleep or cries and refuses to continue to feed. I hope I get there soon as it is difficult to continue the way things are going.

Congratulations to you on finally getting there with your bub!!

Hi Lisa,

I've been in a very similar situation for about the first 3 weeks of my DD's life. When we were in hospital we were having such troubles feeding, and when we got home, it just got worse, shed scream and scream when we'd try to feed her! Then we ended up feeding with a syringe and that was so bad because shed get so much wind!

(If you want to read in more detail, I'll show you my thread which shows the whole story) We did use a nipple shield, but even then, for awhile that didn't work! We ended up bottle feeding with EBM for a couple days while still trying to BF here and there.

We saw a lactation consultant who suggested to us to do breast compressions while were feeding until letdown happens, and also try shaping the breast in the "C" shape (Check the ABA website, sorry, I can't post a link at the moment)

Somehow that worked? I wish I could explain how and why, but I can't, all I know is that we haven't had to use a bottle since (except by choice a couple times)

If you would like some more info, let me know, and ask me questions and I'll help you in any way I can :hug:

At least you are still able to BF, even if it isnt for the whole feed! It will get better Hun, and I know it's the worst thing to hear (I know it peed me off to no end when people said it to me, but it's true!) perseverance is the key! My DD is feeding like a champ now, no shields, no nothing!

Hope - I'd love to read your story. I take inspiration from other people's journey. I've tried some breast compression. When I do it DS seems to choke but when a LC did it in the past it seemed to work. I find the C hold I bit difficult to twist my hand into the position. I'm glad you found somethings that work and I hope the answer presents itself soon for me.

Here is my post :)

Hi Lisa. Hang in there girl it will get better over time. I know at the moment it can seem really hard but you will both get there though might not be tomorrow. One of the things that I found did help with my let down was using a hot facecloth on the breast before I started feeding. In the earlier days I used never feel a let down occuring and believe that my let down was slower than other peoples which didn't encourage my DS to feed properly. We used to try the compression and I would see a difference in his sucking when I did this but also found the hot facecloth worked also. It might give a gentler flow which would mean you little man won't choke. I never really managed the C hold as I couldn't see to twist my hands into the right position and also hold him - where is that spare 3rd hand when you need it lol!

Are you doing EBM on each feed or just some of them? And are you using the shields?

We kept doing top ups for months and then when he was about 3 months old I decided I was only going to offer him top ups on two of his feeds. One in the early afternoon and the other at his dream feed. This has a two fold effect. I stopped freaking out about how much he was taking in as I knew on two of his feeds how much extra he was taking and then gradually he started refusing the tops ups or greatly reducing down the amount of top up he took. I was always doing the BF first and then offering top up. He went from taking maybe 100mls in a top up to 5-10mls. When he was about 6 months old we went overseas and probably due to jetlag and much to much going on during the day he went through a month of feeding multiple times during the night so I stopped the top ups completely and we never went back there.

I have only just stopped breast feeding him a week ago and he has just turned 18 months so please please believe me when I say you will get there. Our start was difficult and I wouldn't wish it on anyone but it is proof that you can make it through. He's still little and just needs a little bit more time to work out what to do. If his wees and poos are okay and he is growing okay then you don't need to worry.

Hope this helps and happy to try to answer any questions you have:hug:

Hope - thanks I appreciate you posting your story.

NW3 - I agree, where is the extra hand. It would be very handy!!! :) We have a good and over supply of EBM so this is where his top ups come from. I express after each feed, or attempted feed. Yes we are using shield and that extra hand would be handy here too. Okay, so if we are still on this roller coaster ride at 3 months maybe I will try dropping some of his top ups and see how we go. Great hint. I hope I can make it through too.

Hi Lisa
i cant give you a story of hope as i was unable to bf past 3 weeks.everything was against us from the start.bub had to be syringe fed for 4 days,then got mastitis,in and out of hospital,the cracked nipples (oh the pain). i made the choice to FF because i wanted to enjoy my son,and not dread him waking up. kwim?

but i can say you are doing such an AMAZING job so far. you are really trying so hard. i know how hard it can be expressing around the clock, and iv been there crying on the couch with the pump also. i also understand how frustrating and upsetting it can be when bub throws himself off your boob. it sucks.
you are doing everything right and to the best of your ability. so if you can, keep persisting. as all the previous posters have said, it does get better.
sending you lots of positive bfing vibes though the computer lol really hope it gets better for u hun.