When did it get better for you - attachment issues

Hi there,

DS is 1 month old tomorrow and we are still working on attachment. We start on the breast and when the feed is unsuccessful which is 95% of the time (goes to sleep or throws himself off and refuses to go back on) we end on the bottle (EBM) to ensure he is gaining weight. Then I express to make more EBM. The whole cycle takes about 1.5 hours (including burping, changing and washing the equipment). We do this every 3 hours. It gets a bit frustrating as I only have 1.5 hours to leave the house and get back so I have access to the breast pump.

We are working with LCs at the hospital and have weekly appointments. One LC and and a few BB members have told me that it does get better maybe around the 4-6 week mark. Other LCs have said there isn't a magic age but it gets better in the bubs own time.

I still feel in a grey area of not knowing if I should just be and exclusive expresser, move onto formula or continue in the hope there is improvement just around the corner.

If you had difficulties with attachment when did it get better for you, or did it? Was there any tricks or was it more to do with your bubs age?

:hug: :hug: The early days are so hard hey? You're doing a great job.

We had some horrible issues in the beginning too - and it took around 10-12 weeks for me to feel like we were really doing well.

I think what your LC saying about it getting better in your baby's own time is correct. Each little one is different. It's funny, I thought that breast feeding would come naturally and be *easy* but we both (me and DD) had to really learn it and it did take a while before we found our groove.

Don't forget too that the ABA has a hotline which is awesome 1800 6862686. Are you a member of the ABA? I found my local support groups to be really awesome too :)

I also find (even now and DD is one) that we didn't attach in the conventional way - when we did it the "textbook" way, I got horribly damaged nipples. Like I said before, we found our own groove and we do what is working for us.

:hug: :hug: You're doing great :)

Hey there

I had problems with both my girls (very, very long story) which in hindsight I put down to having large nipples and them having problems fitting it into their small mouths. Lactation consultants didn't tell me this, they just told me to keep trying which I found futile. Anyhow, because for me it was predominantly a size issue, it got much, much better around the 6-7-8 week mark and instead of attachment being a complete nightmare, it became quite easy.

It sounds like things are really tough for you at the moment :hug: I know it would be so much easier to have an idea of when things will be easier. I only had to express every feed for a few days when DS1 had a tongue-tie and it was so time consuming I don't know how mums do it for longer than that.

Unfortunately I think it is really variable - it comes down to what is going on that is stopping things from working well (and it might be more than one thing). With all the people you are seeing, I guess you have tried Baby Led Attachment and Susanne Coulson's Laid-back Nurturing? These would be the first things I'd suggest. Susanne's DVD blew me away when I saw how much difference the laid-back position and having baby diagonally across mum rather than in cradle hold made. Also the obvious checks for tongue-tie, high palate etc. Some mums have great success with an osteo, especially if it was a diffiult or instrumental (eg vaccum) birth. I think sometimes it's just a matter of bub getting bigger or supply settling down, but other times it's a matter of investigating until you find a solutioin that works.

I hope it's soon for you - I know how great it will feel to have feeding going well :hug:

Lisa B, I have written your post numerous times over the past 3 months lol! My DD has just hit the 12 week mark and attachment has only become easier over the past two weeks. I was in the same position of being so close to using formula too. All I can say is just try your best to hang in there (I know how hard that is) and things will only get easier with time. There will actually come a time when you feel like you can enjoy breastfeeding! :)

Isadora - thanks. I don't know how you hung in there for 10 weeks. That's amazing.

MantaRay - we don't really have a diagnosed problem. The latest theory is that because it was too painful for me and I had nipple damage when I left the hospital and we began to use a bottle that DS might have just developed a preference for the bottle. Yes I've been introduced to infant led and seen the DVD. I find the laid back position hard to get bub into the position. The DVD was beautiful and made me want to cry.

Fionas - I hope we can get it together in the same timeframe as you.

MummaSue - yes we can't do the text book way. In fact we use a nipple shield and I just let him get on the way he wants and then make some adjustments. I've been a bit reluctant to join ABA as I'm worried that I will feel like even more of a failure if I start going along to meetings and then end up bombing out to formula. I guess I feel like I'm mentally in no-mans land at the moment. Again, 10 weeks seems like such a long time to hold out for. You've done an amazing job to get through that.

It took quite a while for us, DD was born quite small so had heaps of trouble attaching and it wasn't till around 3 months that things became easier/comfortable. It is tough, really tough.. hang in there, I hope things get better soon :hug:

The only thing that really helped while waiting for her to grow was holding her closely and trying to support her head as much as possible so she didn't slip or drag on the nipple.

I also feel your pain and have been wanting to write a similar post.
DD2 is 6and a half weeks. We had issues getting her mild tongue tie snipped even though she was damaging my nipples and had to travel to Sydney which is normally a 7hr drive but with a newborn and a 2yr old much longer. We had the snip done at 4.5wks. I noticed instantly that DD could put her tongue out further but she still clicks during feeds which i now think is oversupply. I've been told that she has to relearn breastfeeding as she developed bad habits from the TT. I still have sore damaged nipples and am battling staph infections and possibly thrush now. I'm not supposed to use any teats as to not interfere with the relearning breastfeeding so have had DD on the breast the whole time feeding through. I EE for DD1 for 6mths so unfortunately bf doesn't come easy for me but i will continue to persist because i want this so bad and every feed i remind myself that the turning point is probably just around the corner. Take each feed as it comes. Set yourself little targets ie. i'll get to 6wks and see how it's going etc. I would definatly keep putting your bub to the breast. I did this at least once each day with DD1 even though i was expressing and found it helped keep the bond happening. It also helped keep my hopes up for a bf relationship to eventually happen. Her issues were anatomical though so never were resolved. I also never let anyone else feed DD1 the bottles of EBM for about the first 4-5mths.
Have the LC's done a proper assessment of your bubs mouth to check for palette problems etc? My LC told me so long as nothing anatomical is wrong it will happen eventually. So fingers crossed for both of us and lots of hugs as i do know what your going through.

It's great to hear stories of others bf relationships happening despite initial problems. I'm sorry if i hijacked your thread!

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I've been a bit reluctant to join ABA as I'm worried that I will feel like even more of a failure if I start going along to meetings and then end up bombing out to formula.

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Hun, I really want to stress that you are not a failure. In fact you are amazing for continuing through so much difficulty. I went to my first ABA meeting when DS was 1 week old and only just feeding with nipple shields. I only went out of guilt because a friend bought me membership and I felt obliged. I turned up hoping against hope that he wouldn't need a feed while I was there because I couldn't possibly use shields in front of all these "real mums" who "know how to breastfeed properly". As it turned out, going to the meeting was the best thing I could have done. My confidence was so boosted by all these people I'd never met before who thought that I was amazing for being able to feed at all with everything going on. I look back at that time differently now - I know I wasn't "failing", I was doing the very best I could. And so are you hun :hug: Pat yourself on the back for working through all these issues and not giving up. That is truly inspiring.

Lisa - just wanted to come in and add that I felt so much pressure (from myself) when I was finding it tough doing what you're doing - BF, expressing and EBMing to "make a decision godammit" about whether to continue, whether to exclusively express or whether to go to formula. I just found it so absolutely draining and frustrating to do three things in one feed. It's not easy although the LCs can often make it sound so straightforward.

I say do whatever it takes to have enough strength to fight another day. If that means throwing in a couple of formula feeds, so be it. I know that will go against the grain but I think it's better to do whatever it takes to stick it out for the long haul rather than throw everything at a sprint, if that makes sense. I should have given myself permission to give myself a break rather than torturing myself to make a decision because every feed was just so hard and I wasn't sure how long I could keep it up.

My story in brief: I stopped the BFing, expressing, top-up merry-go-round at 3 weeks with DD2 (attachment just wasn't working despite trying 8 times per day for 3 weeks). For the next 5 weeks, I exclusively formula fed - no BFing, no expressing. At around 8 weeks, I tried to attach again just for the hell of it. Easy as pie. But I had no milk. Then relactated (by expressing every hour for 2 weeks and taking meds) to gain some supply back. Then partly BFed and partly FFed for the next 3 months.

So .... there's more than one way to skin a cat.

DD is 8 weeks old and her attachment is still bad bad bad. Every feed is painful. She makes a clicking noise every feed. She has a disorganized suck and gets tired and sick of sucking quickly so she is never full so she feeds hourly. LC can't figure it out. Her attachment looks right it just isn't. I have had enough. But unfortunately she has just as much trouble with a bottle and chokes on every teat I have tried. She can't control the flow at all. So I try to offer her a bottle of ebm to give my nipples a break and she refuses it once she starts choking. So I just have to hope it gets better. I really hope it gets better.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

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Hun, I really want to stress that you are not a failure. In fact you are amazing for continuing through so much difficulty. I went to my first ABA meeting when DS was 1 week old and only just feeding with nipple shields. I only went out of guilt because a friend bought me membership and I felt obliged. I turned up hoping against hope that he wouldn't need a feed while I was there because I couldn't possibly use shields in front of all these "real mums" who "know how to breastfeed properly". As it turned out, going to the meeting was the best thing I could have done. My confidence was so boosted by all these people I'd never met before who thought that I was amazing for being able to feed at all with everything going on. I look back at that time differently now - I know I wasn't "failing", I was doing the very best I could. And so are you hun :hug: Pat yourself on the back for working through all these issues and not giving up. That is truly inspiring.

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I just want to second what MantaRay has said. The meetings are awesome and a wonderful support. Everyone is lovely and have all had their share of difficulties at the start. It took me longer to attend the meetings, DD was around 4 months old and we had sorted our issues out with the help of BB and the ABA hotline - but oh how I wish I'd gone in the earlier days. Even just to sit and have a weep and have someone hold DD for me for a while. Hindsight is a wonderful thing......

Anyway, you're doing a terrific job! Keep us posted on how you're doing :)

Sue xxxx

ABA meetings are great and i don't think i would've gotten through expressing etc with DD1 for so long without them. Even when i couldn't bf at all anymore i still went because i made great friends and it was a social outing for me. I was never made to feel inadequate for expressing and the advice and support i received was invaluable. They will not make you feel like a failure because you are not. You are doing an amazing job.

Ladies, you are all amazing sharing your stories, difficulties, successes and just offering support to me. I really don't know where I would be without the support. Maybe I will look into the ABA meetings.

Jellyfish - it's fantastic that you hung in there for 3 months

Crystal - hijak away the more stories the merrier. All of the LCs I've seen have looked at his palate but I do have an appointment with a doctor that specialises in antenatal and breastfeeding. You have amazing determination to hang in with EE for 6 months. Very admirable. I hope your BF issues will be sorted soon. Yes we are setting small targets.

Mantaray - thanks for your encouragement and reframing things for me.

Fionas - your story is inspirational and I'm glad it worked out in the end. Yes the LCs make it sound easy and don't really see it as a problem that I'm almost housebound one told me that women of other cultures spend 40 days at home with people coming to them and then working women are so much on the go they find it hard to slow down. Although the same LC showed me how to go hands free on the pump and give bub a bottle at the same time...a little awkward but has helped so much as DS is not grizzly whilst I am pumping.

Mumof2boys - gosh your situation sounds really really hard. At least DS will take the bottle after failing to attach. I hope it gets better for you soon. You've struggled on for awhile now.

Mummasue - yes there's a good chance I would breakdown in tears at an ABA meeting.

Update from me: well the council breastfeeding support has basically said she's done everything she can for me and that my situation is unusual and hasn't volunteered anymore appointments. She had suggested that I get a paediatrician to double check everything is okay and perhaps seek support from an Osteopath. Good suggestions that I will follow up, but I feel like I've been lumped into the too hard basket. I also see an LC at the hospital I just hope they continue to offer appointments. I kind of need these appointments as some kind of goal post to get me through each week. They usually don't have too much different to offer but at least I have someone to sit down with, share the problem with and to give me some kind of hope things will get better.

Hun, I'm sorry to hear that you are still struggling. Would you consider seeing a private LC at all? Many mums who do find the money well worth it. The IBCLC qualified ones are trained and experienced in things like tongue-tie and high palate that many medical professionals and even some other LCs don't often come across. Just a thought but being in Melbourne you would have a good choice around you most likely. If you would like some help in finding one, please feel free to PM me or Barb with your suburb or general area.

Hang in there hun, you're doing a great job.

Lisa I so know how you feel, its such a tough time. Really feeling for you. Dont put too much pressure on yourself. This is your first baby right? With my first I was so overwhelmed by dealing with a new baby, let alone trying to make BFing work, that I put my baby onto formula. Today at 3.5 yrs she is such a happy, healthy child. Now that I am BFing my second, I am a bit sad that it didnt work out for my first, but I did what I had to at the time to keep myself happy, no regrets! With your second you are not as shell shocked and will find it easier to stick it out. I know how you feel because I felt exactly the same way less than two weeks ago. Its easy to feel like switching to formula is failing your child, the guilt is huge. But its so not. I have hung in there, but only just, so I really understand whats running through your mind at the moment. You can only do your best!

Oh Lisa, I'm so sorry you're not getting the IRL support that you need right now.

:hug: :hug:

It took about 6 weeks for it settle for me. I had a mantra going: If I'm still doing this tomorrow, it's a good thing. That got me through every feed. I wish I could say I dealt with my frustration like an angel, but I can't. There were times I yelled at Jack, at DH, at Mum. There were times I cried when it was time to feed him, and times I cried through the whole feed. But as bad as it got, it does get better. I felt like over night, we both just 'got it'. I hope the same will come for you through support and learning. Xx

As for 'dropping your bottle' at ABA meetings... well! I have lost count the amount of times I broke down at ABA or New Parent group. Even in the presence of women doing it tough, I still felt out of my depth! I was so anxious I was going to be discovered for 'faking it', and actually having no idea what I was doing. At those times, someone would hold jack, and let me have a cup of tea. it was heavenly. you'll see. :)

I don't know if I can help with the attachment issue... but would love to offer some support.

It is normal to feel like you are pinned to the couch. I certainly felt that way up til about 7 weeks. 1.5 hours without feeding was a marathon for both of us, and leaving the house was daunting - and that was without problems to compoud it.
Pumping is such very hard work, and it is a wonderful thing to do for your baby. A mum in my MG had to do it for 12 weeks to get BFing established, and now, at 4 months, she has this gorgeous, chubby, super settled baby and she loves feeding. I think she is amazing to have persevered for so long with it, and now she is reaping the rewards.

Our ABA group meetings are great too. I have made great friends, and had some delicious cups of tea. There is always support. For everyone. About anything. Strongly recommend.

Good luck. You're doing great. xx

Hey ladies,

I haven't had internet access for the last couple of days.

You are all so fabulous with your support.

Audux - wow that woman in your mother's group is so inspirational. If I had a crystal ball and could see that it would all pan out at 3 months I would just know to keep going. I will look into the ABA meetings.

Entreat - I undertand the emotions that you talked about. I'm hoping we will turn a corner soon as we are 5 weeks tomorrow. I so hope, but not convinced we are near the corner yet.

MummaSue - thanks for the hugs. I need them.

Isadora - yes it's my first baby. I agree there is so much to learn and take in with the first. I hope things work out for you too.

MantaRay - I did see a private LC for one session but she didn't really offer anything different from the hospital clinic.

AFM: well we have an osteopath appointment booked and a paediatric appointment booked. I was at the MCHN today and she saw him refusing his EBM bottle and suggested I see a MCHN at the Children's Hospital who specialises in feeding refusal. I will also follow this one up. At the moment I have seem to have fallen into a groove (or accepted me current lot) of expressing and accepting that we try BF and when it fails move onto the EBM bottle. I'm trying to focus on small achievements like once a day we get a 15 minute feed and an attempted latch on the other side. I'm still hoping for a better day and hopefully it will be soon but right now I feel I can hold up this pattern for another week or two.

I know it may not seem like it to you Lisa, but it sounds to me like you're really making progress here. Definitely focus on those small achievements :hug:

You're doing great Lisa babe, really great.

We're actually having some attachment issues ourselves at the moment!!!! One year down the line! But it's the dreaded teeth. It would seem that DD likes to use my nipple as a teether at the moment :( OUCHIES!

:hug:

i can highly recommend the osteo! so am happy to see that you have booked in to see one :)

we had loads of attachment issues with DD2 and at around 8 weeks i lost the plot after numerous bouts of mastitis and saw a LC who recommended an osteo. so we went along and after the first session there was a noticeable improvement and by the third (and last) session we were awesome and havent looked back!

Madb - thanks for you encouragement, it is hard to see progress when you are in the thick of things.

MummaSue - thanks hun, the teeth sound very ouchie!

Cass - Can I ask which Osteo you saw? I live in Thornbury so yours might be close and given you've had success I might look into it. I'm booked in the city at VUT as they have a BF specialist Osteo but the city is a bit of pain particularly as I have to express on a regular schedule so getting in, the appointment time and getting back home is really going to push it for me.

Update from me: I have refined my schedule a bit further so I now prepare the bottle, the hot water to warm it and the breast pumps prior to attempting the BF so when the BF fails (almost always) I can quickly attend to DS with the bottle, feeding him on the end of my knees which reduces his tears and hop on the pump at the same time (double pump hands free). I think I've shaved off another 10 minutes of time and depending on DS drinking time I can now do the feeding/xpress cycle in 40 mins...yay!! It's only 10 minutes less but made such a difference both in my time and not having to see DS distressed whilst his bottle is being heated.

we go to one in fitzroy on brunswick street (so i catch the tram down with her in the carrier) called Osteopathic Sense. they all deal in babies and BF stuff...so cool!

Cass - thanks for that I will look them up now it's great that it worked for you and hopefully I will get some joy as well.

Cass - We are booked in with Isabelle for next week. Looking forward to my appointment now!! We can combine it with a nice stroll around Brunswick St and even be back for the next express :)

I just wanted to update where I'm up to as a sense of completion of this thread.

I tried attaching DS to the breast for 9 weeks and he would cry each time and never complete a full feed. I tried all the advice given by LCs and tried seeing an osteopath. Then at 9 weeks DS began to reduce his volume of top up bottles (EBM) and would cry each time the bottle was offered. I stopped attaching DS to monitor his volume and it had reduced. We ended up at the hospital and were put onto people who could help with feeding like a paediatrician and a MCHN who specialises in fussy feeding. DS also started reflux medication but the specialists are not sure if he has reflux or an allergy to something I am eating. The issue of nipple confusion was raised by many of the professionals.

I am sad to say but I have stopped trying to attach DS to the breast at 9 weeks. I am still expressing and providing BM exclusively. I know this is the right decision for us as I need to focus on his feed times being positive and satisfying, and I am still doing the best I can for him by providing BM. His EBM bottle feeding has improved with the strategies and help I have been receiving. I am also about to begin working with a dietician to see if he is reacting to something in the BM.

Thanks everyone for your support and I hope that those of you still experiencing attachment issues see resolution soon.

Big hugs. You've been through a serious struggle, and by continuing to express, the door for breastfeeding is open for later on, when both of you feel more comfortable.

My son has reflux. It was PITA & heart breaking until he was medicated. What medication did they start him on?

keep up the good work on expressing. :D

Big big hugs to you Lisa B. I hadn't realised you were still struggling from when you had posted so so many weeks ago.

Well done on getting so far as you have and on having the courage to make a decision that you have done to make feeding your DS a good experience.

Like Entreat said by continuing to express you are going to continue to keep your supply up so could go back to breastfeeding again in the future if it was right for both of you.

We did the whole breast feeding, little top up, express roundabout for months probably until my DS was about 4 months old and I was constantly worrying about how much he was taking. We seemed to turn a corner at about 4 months and then again at 6 months when top ups were dropped completely. However every baby is different so what worked for me mightn't work for you. That is what is so difficult when you are trying to give help and support to someone. I think its just a case of trying different things that have worked for others and keeping fingers crossed that it will work for you too.

Like MR and MS have said the ABA are fantastic. I lost count of the number of times I was on the phone to them in tears in the early days when I couldn't get DS to feed. Some of my friends who'd had children before me just couldn't understand why I was persevering with breast feeding if it was upsetting me so much. Others who were supportive and who had bubs at the same time as me had babies that took to BFing like a duck takes to water so they didn't really understand the problems we were experiencing. But we did and I continued to BF DS until he was just over 18 months old when he basically decided his time was up. I was also ready to leave go at that stage so it worked out well for both of us.

But you need to do whatever works for the two of you. Any help/support I can give just shout out.

Xx

Hi,
I'm coming into this thread a bit late, I only just saw it, but I just wanted to give you a little glimmer of further hope in case it is helpful.
You have done such a great job, and as you say it is so hard and time consuming, and what you are doing right now sounds like the best decision for you at the moment.

Just in answer to you original question - for us it took 4 months to get it sorted. We exclusively expressed for a period from about 1 week old and then got back onto the breast with nipple shields, and finally managed to wean from nipple shields at 3 months. I went on to breastfeed for 2.5yrs :D
Sometimes the initial road is so, so hard, but when they are 1yr, or 2yr (or 4yrs like mine is now!) that awful struggle does seem more distant.

If that doesn't happen for you, then please do recognise you've given it a great shot and done the best you could and you and your baby will be great anyway! But maybe, in a week, or at some stage you both might just feel like trying the breast again and it may just "click", you never know.

All the best.

Lisa, you have done such a great job :hug: You know you have tried everything so hopefully that will give you some inner peace. I am really glad that you have a plan that you are happy with. Have you seen the Exclusive Expressers support thread? You might like to join them in there - they are all doing a fantastic job, are very supportive and have picked up some tips along the way that might help you out. Here is the link in case you are interested: https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...ressers-85910/

All the best hun :hug:

Great work Lisa! I know it's not what you'd hoped for, but you're doing really well and should feel proud :hug:

totally agree with MadB...you did a sterling effort and have continued to do so!

I had similar problems and only got by durin the first couple of weeks by expressing and finger feeding. I set myself a target of 6 weeks. 9 weeks later we are still going. I use a nipple shield - this was a life saver for me. a mid wife suggested it because we were having attachment problems - my DS would come off continually and my nipples were killing me. I have heard that nipple shields can affect your supply but I have too much milk at the moment! I saw a lactation consultant at the hospital too who was great. When things were bad I used to dread each feed. I used to cry through them. It was horrible. I just took one feed at a time. Now it is a lot better - I still have a few issues which I think are now down to there being too much milk and try as many feeds without the shields as I can but don't worry too much about using the shields.

Most of my friends had problems too so I was prepared for it to be difficult - that didn't make it any easier though.

Hang in there - your persistence will pay off.:D

attachment magically happened for us, at the four month mark.

until then, it was bad enough, that i was constantly saying "i commit to bf-ing for the next 24 hours, i cannot commit any longer than that".

are you seeing a range of LC's at the hospy?
is there a cut off point for the help?
my friend found out, the LC help at the hospy, was only for babies under ten weeks old. So when she had issues at 12 weeks, she was not eligible for the help.

Some people find a huge difference between seeing many different hospy LC's, and seeing ONE private LC on a regular basis e.g once a week until things settle down - in YOUR HOME, so they might pick up on things that the hospy LC's wouldn't, purely cos they're seeing you and bub, in your normal environment.

Have you got a comfy place to bf? i bought a rocking chair to feed in, it was anything but comfy to bf in. i wished i had bought a recliner instead. I tried so many different bf-ing pillows. i often fed on the sofa, so had support for my arms, when i fed on ONE side, but when it came time for 2nd side, zero support.

i remember me and my bub being picked up by a kind stranger, for a ABA meeting (i was too unwell to drive at three months) and i was so exhausted. the aba meeting was being held out on the person's outdoor entertaining area, i found it very noisy and needed to feed bilby. so the person offered me to go into her lounge so i could feed bilby someplace quiet. Next time she checked on us, i had fallen asleep cradling bilby in my arms (the sofa was very wide, so she was safe)! She woke me up at the end of the meeting. Apparently this is not unusual behaviour for their new mums - i was SO embarrassed.