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I am wondering if I am the only person that does NOT view negatively towards surgery?
The discussion has come up many times, and I am shocked to hear peoples opinions.
I think surgery is a great option for those who have long term struggled with their weight, and I see surgery as a better choice than draining our health system from obesity related illnesses.
Am I alone here?
I don't view it negatively. I agree that for those that have struggled with weight over the long term it is a great option. I also TOTALLY agree that it is far cheaper than dealing with the range of obesity related illnesses later in life.
That being said, I do have a concern that sorta like c-sections they might become overused. Particularly for those that are moderately overweight and have not tried any other weight loss methods such as lifestyle changes, eating patterns, exercise.
I'm 50 / 50 on the matter.
I think surgery is definitely a good option for some people; but I don't agree with people resorting to it for a 'quick fix' solution, IYKWIM? Example, my friend had been overweight for most of her life, I've known her since I was 9. She never attempted to lose it through exercise or food intake - and she had openly admitted to me she wanted lap band surgery as she can't be ar$ed trying to lose it herself (she had about 50kgs to be in a healthy BMI range). She said the surgery would give her the 'kickstart' she needed. I never bagged her or thought negatively about it. She's had the surgery in Feb 2011, and still has shocking eating habits. She hasn't altered the foods she eats at all, just the amount (which is due to the surgery).
However, I've lost almost 40kgs from just exercise and good food intake after having my second child. And I've now got 8kgs to lose after just having DD2 one month ago. And I'm confident that I can and will do it. Yup it was tough in the beginning, but it got easier and easier as time went on, and just became a part of my daily routine.
But yes, its a case by case approach, there is no one size fits all when it comes to this topic I believe.
I think it's a legitimate option that is abused.
In 99% of cases its simple, energy inout far out weighs energy output. And there seems to be an increase in people having the surgery thinking it's the easy way out.
I actually know a number of people who have had lap banding, most have put 60-80% of the weight they lost back on 5+ years later.
A lot of people defend the surgery saying people see nutritionist and what not throughout but most people over eat for a reason and if that reason isn't identified and dealt with no surgery or diet will work.
I also don't see a need to have to "cure" over weight people, not everyone wants to fit into the xyz mould and are quite happy the way they are. Skinny people are also a drain on the health system.
I don't think tying a band around your gut to make it half its size or stapling your stomach in two should be taken so lightly as it is now. Its major surgery. My mum still 10 years later has problems with her band and vomiting because food gets stuck, this is going to have major health implications as she gets older.
I hope we can one day move away from having to "cure the fatties" and just except people will always come in different shapes and sizes.
I am with the other girls here. There are people who it is a fantastic solution for, but it doesn't work on its own. All it does is make your stomach smaller. I think there is a view out there that if you have this surgery then you will lose weight and look amazing in no time, but that is not necessarily the case and should only be undergone if other options like healthy lifestyle have already been attempted.
Leesa, has your friend lost any weight? We have a friend of the family who has stayed almost as big years after her surgery because she still eats utter crap, just in smaller portions more often.
I also agree witht he others. It needs to be carefully wieghed up as to whether it's the right option for you. I have heard of people changing their entire lifestyles around and the surgery being the point of change, but I have also heard of people like Leesa;s friend who have just continued on their merry way of eating junk and no exercise. There needs to be better psycological testing to see if you're mentally prepared for such a life altering thing to be done.
I don't know how I feel about it to be honest! I think it is a valid option for many people, however, if it is not supported with the right eating and exercise coaching, it is still doomed to fail.
I am very overweight and I am working towards slowly slowly losing the weight on my own.
I feel good about the fact I am really learning what I should and shouldn't do.
A friend of mine had lap banding done a few years ago and hasn't budged any weight at all.
It's like any aspect of weight loss I suppose. Hard work pays off!
I suppose for me, weight loss isn't just about reducing size. It's about health and fitness. I don't know much about the surgical options, except i think there comes a point where people need it as drastic action (like when they can no longer walk, for example). However, lap band isn't going to miraculously cure the build up of fat in arteries and the pressure that puts on the heart and brain. It won't suddenly cure liver or kidney disease or improve bone density. Over time, if the fat falls off, it may help. However, if people dont exercise, they cant improve or maintain their fitness or strength. The same goes for skinny people who dont exercise - some of them are heart attacks waiting to happen too.
I'm not obese, but I'm overweight. My weight hasn't increased much, but due to physical restrictions, I haven't been exercising properly for over a year. I know i've lost fitness, strength, flexibility etc. I've tried to adapt my diet accordingly (I'm not perfect though), so i don't create extra problems for myself or for bub. However, I'm conscious I don't have the same resting heartbeat I had when I was fitter. I'm hoping once bub arrives and I can work to get rid of the SPD, then i get back to some sort of training regime. I may not be able to the same sort of exercise i did pre-baby, but I'll find a work around. I hate being inactive.
A lot of resistance to health and fitness is habit and what people learn from their families growing up. A lot of it is psychological. I'm a comfort eater myself, so I can relate. However, it is everyone's choice as to whether or not they access the help they need to get better (I see extreme unhealthy eating, whether over or under eating as an illness). I don't think just getting surgery is going to solve anything, if people dont also work on the psychological side of things and learn to consciously exercise and eat appropriately.
i think in the right circumstances, the surgical assistance can be warranted - but it has to be done correctly. using it as the be all and end all is not gonna work. you need to make significant lifestyle changes before undergoing the surgery so that it is the boost to the changes, not the kick start. i am the daughter of two failed surgical weight loss candidates. neither made the required lifestyle changes. i am friends with a couple of people who HAVE made the changes and simply used the surgery to boost that weight loss
so yes, i can see both sides. it CAN be a fantastic thing if it's not abused.
This has been taking up most of my mental capacity lately, LOL. I'm supposed to get a gastric sleeve in August, but I just can't make up my mind. I personally would rather lose it the old fashioned way, I guess because of the way people view it? I think I focus too much on the opinions of others. At the end of the day, I just fricken wanna be healthy! But I also question whether getting skinny that way IS healthy. Sure, it's effective, probably moreso for me, given how much difficulty I have losing weight. But the accompanying mineral and vitamin deficiencies concern me - am I healthier now, even obese, than I would be after the op?
Such an interesting topic.
Nah berme, my friend didn't / hasn't lost weight ad yet.
Keike - I can understand your thinking there (about how to lose the weight). For me personally it was kinda like saving hard to buy my first car; I took far more pride and care of my car when I bought it, compared to my friends who had theirs bought for them. Sometimes time / patience can be a factor - depends on the real motivation behind you wanting to lose it eg - ttc. Just do what feels right for you Hun, I'd be 100% behind you no matter what decision you make :).
And I do agree, skinny is not necessarily healthier by any means if it's been achieved thru unhealthy methods.....lol, hope that makes sense ;)
Yeah, I understand :) I suppose, looking at it simplistically, I would be at less risk of dying from a heart attack or something. Mineral/vitamin deficiencies can be controlled and supplemented, but excess weight around vital organs can't be fixed apart from losing that weight.
Something else I worry about is whether it's safe or possible for me to lose that amount of weight - I mean, an obese person has a lot of extra strain on the heart, and then doing cardio is even more strain. Is it safer to use the surgery as a kickstart, and then follow it up with a tailored exercise regime, than it would be to jump in and start flogging it right now?
I think the safest way to lose weight regardless if it's a little or a lot is eating a healthy diet with variety, portion control and exercise.
But with exercise you have to push yourself past whats comfortable to have any effect, you have to start sweating.
That's my point, is my body capable of being pushed past its limit without killing me?
as long as you're not flogging yourself.
Set a goal, push yourself a little, when that becomes easy push yourself a little more and so on.
I don't think it's a matter of having to hitting the pavement and doing a 10km run straight up.
A good friend of mine had lapband surgery and at first I was worried and cynical because I too had only heard the bad stuff.
And I can tell you it was not an instant fix. She still watched what she ate and exercised. And she is one of the most successful band patients. It's not the norm but that doesn't mean it can't happen. The band is like a crutch, that you can lean on. And it also depends on how you eat and whether or not you eat a lot. Not everyone gains wait from eating a lot. Some people gain by WHAT they eat. For example if you have a band eating chocolate, lollies etc empty calories will still be consumable through the band even if you are consuming small amounts.
I think Lap Band Surgery is good for some people. But NOTHING is a quick fix. Everything should be balanced with smart eating (not starvation) and exercise. Because that is the way to a healthy lifestyle. I love the new ads we have here. "Don't stop it, just swap it." and it's so true. Small changes can change everything.
Keike if you need a treadmill buddy let me know. I need to get back on it. And I used to MMS my final treadmill screen to my gf to keep us motivated... :)
BTW I lost 17 kgs last year. And when Lucy died in Jan I stopped everything I was doing. Whilst I haven't lost much more, I haven't gained a single kg. So I know I have changed. I just need to get my mojo back so I can lose more ;)
I think that when it is combined with a commitment to having a healthy lifestyle it can be a good option.
I read something interesting about stool transplants and gut flora a while ago - they have been transplanting stool from the bowels of slim people into people who struggle with weight and finding that it can help weight loss and reduce diabetes risk so maybe that is a less drastic option.
If you don't sweat and you don't hurt just a bit it's probably not going to work. Pushing yourself past your limit is how you gain strength and fitness.:
If you push yourself you will learn to love the pain and the endorphin rush afterwards.
When I first started training, I couldn't run around an oval without stopping 5 times. I couldn't believe it. But you have to start somewhere. My fitness started to increase but I didnt start losing real weight/size until I altered my eating habits and stopped eating so much junk. Remember, if nothing changes, nothing changes.:
I once read about a woman who was morbidly obese who started just walking around the Hills hoist in her backyard. For someone carrying her weight, that was enough to start without risking her life. Combined with healthy eating (both in quality and quantity), she lost heaps of weight. I think this way, you put so much work into losing the inches, you're less likely to indulge in things that will compromise all that work. Also, the healthier you become, the better you feel and the less you want to stuff the emotions with food, IYKWIM.
I think you need to talk to a professional - a qualified dietician. Not just someone with Cert 3 in personal fitness. Someone who really knows their stuff and can work with you and your doctor on a realistic program.
Oh Rouge, that'd be awesome! I've just started back on the treadmill, waking up earlier in the morning to do it. It's great, because I was getting home at night and was too sore/tired to get on. Plus I wasn't waking up early enough to make breakfast in the morning, so we'd buy something on the way in. So now, I wake up an hour earlier, spend half hour on the treadmill, have a quick shower and then wake up Professor with a cooked brekkie. And I'm SO much more alert for the day :)
Ok done :) shall we start tomorrow? I'll Pm you some of my tips too, so that you can see that you don't need to push past what you can achieve to start with. I didn't and I still lost...
Sounds brill :)
Tried to rep you, but I need to 'share the love', so the comment I was gonna make was 'thanks darl, could you BE more awesome?' :)
Oops, sorry Tash, missed your post. Inertia suggested a dietician to me the other day actually, I hadn't thought of it before. The surgeon who may do my surgery recommended a woman who works out of his offices, and apparently she's well versed in PCOS as well, so I rang yesterday. She's away til next week, but I'm looking forward to seeing her.
I found going to a naturopath helped as well, getting the other levels where they should be.
I'm from the school of 'do as thou wilt'. It's not for anybody to judge another person's 'suitability' for weight-loss surgery or anything else - that's up to the individual and their doctor to decide.
I may be biased, but I come from the perspective of someone who had 'unnecessary' surgery purely for myself and anybody who doesn't agree that I 'needed' or was a suitable candidate, can go jump ;) I'm a size 8/10 and until 7 weeks ago, had a size 14 midsection. I felt horrible. I looked about 7 months pregnant all the time. I couldn't bear for DH to see me naked and had to stick to wearing dresses instead of shirts and pants because I couldn't tuck my belly in. I couldn't even work out properly because if I stepped up for anything other than a brisk walk on my treadmill, my saggy belly shook and jiggled from side to side (like big boobs without a supportive bra) and it HURT. Friends and family told me I was being stupid, my body image was all in my head, told me I should feel good about myself as my body was a result of growing two healthy kids, that if I just did enough sit-ups and ate nothing but f-ing salads for months on end, I'd get my flat tummy back... but no.
Screw them and their opinions, I got a tummy tuck and I couldn't be happier! And no, I'm not sitting here watching every forkful I put in my mouth - I have my junk blowouts and love my food and have my 'off' days like everyone else where I just can't be bothered to watch my portion size. I paid a stupid amount of money but I have my life back, and even if people don't notice right away (I've lost another dress size after surgery purely from not wanting to eat and feeling uncomfortable while recovering), I don't care because I did it for ME. People can say, 'Oh, but you didn't even need it, why should you have had it when there are people out there who *really* need it' (whatever that means!), or believe that plastic/cosmetic surgery should only be available for truly 'needy' people (eg boob jobs for breast cancer patients only, plastic surgery for car crash survivors or burns victims who are disfigured etc), but I don't understand why anybody would think that way - like a burden they simply don't understand or relate to is somehow completely invalid and I should just 'put up with it' because someone out there is worse off than me?
So yes, I view weight-loss surgery very positively. If the individual in question is going into it as a 'quick fix' and isn't willing to work hard and change their whole life to get the best results, then that's their problem and the consequences of their actions will be theirs to bear. It doesn't affect me or anybody else. If someone thinks weight-loss surgery will be the 'kick start' they need to get them motivated to change those bad habits, then more power to them - my tummy tuck did the same for me. I was so miserable beforehand, I figured dieting and exercising could just go to hell because it wasn't going to change anything - and I know a lot of overweight people feel the same way. 'What's the point, I've tried and failed before, if I could *just* get this surgery to give me a head start it would be the catalyst for change'... and it certainly has been the case in my situation. Now that I can put on a pair of skinny jeans and not have a big gut hanging out, I find I do watch my diet more carefully and I do find those early-morning workouts easier to face with a smile because I can SEE the results and now I'm not just chasing a dream, I'm maintaining a reality - a much more powerful motivator imo.
I know a guy who got lap-banding surgery to help him tackle his morbid obesity. He's still morbidly obese and lives on Mars Bars and thickshakes. And that's his problem to deal with - he didn't use the opportunity wisely and HE will be paying the price with poor health and self-esteem. Not anybody else. I know others who have been given the same opportunity and found a whole new lease on life because they stepped up to the challenge and took it all on board - and they are reaping the benefits.
So I'm all for weight-loss surgery if that's what a person feels is an option for them. Whether they do it 'right' or not, whether they 'deserve' it or not, it's for the individual themselves to deal with.
Weight-loss surgery, like mine, certainly isn't minor. More power to those who can't (or just don't want to) fight a losing battle all on their own and are brave enough to go under the knife in order to free themselves from a lifetime of bad habits and misery and make such a huge change!
(And that's not to say that people who lose heaps of weight the 'traditional' way are weak or any 'less than' those who get weight-loss surgery, I am in absolute awe of those who can push on and on for so long and make huge lifestyle changes in order to be healthy - just that for many people, traditional doesn't work and they need to pursue other methods to achieve their goals... and it takes a lot of guts to go to such lengths to get there!)
I err on the side of caution with surgery like this. It is a concept that does not sit well with me, mostly a "gut" feeling, but also from what I have seen. Now I can only really comment on those with a lapband that I know in real life and in those cases I do not believe it was the best thing for those people. One I know was quite capable in the past of losing weight, he completely ballooned after marrying a fabulous cook. The other, yes she has struggled all her life with weight and I fully supported her lapband choice. Well that is until I watched her eat lots of fried food and leave behind the veg (even when cooked in a way that she could eat).
I think certainly that it is just a piece of the jigsaw for losing weight, but I do not believe it is the one and only solution.
not wanting to start a negative stance here but just want to say that it CAN, quite seriously, impact others.:
When you have a parent who has been through this surgery who doesn't do the right thing afterwards and has resultant health problems, directly related to the surgery, that require you to care for them, it impacts you. when the direct result of that failed surgery leaves you with a mother that can't function on a normal daily basis because she is so malnourished, grossly overweight, but severely ill, it impacts you. when that same person ends up with a stomache that is so ulcerated that it is constantly leaking stomach acid into their abdomen and slowly killing them to the point you need to care for them at 15, it impacts you. when that same parent feeds you crap as a child because "i can eat anything cos i have this lap band and i won't put on weight" and you end up overweight and unhealthy, it impacts you. when you sit in a hospital waiting room at 21 while your mother undergoes lifesaving corrective surgery to remove the lap band, sew the holes in her stomach, and, "while we're there" performs gastric bypass, with the surgeon having told you that no surgery means death within a couple of years, surery could mean longer life, but it's 50/50 your morbidly obese mother will die on the table, it impacts you. when you are living away from your folks but cooking for them daily around work to make sure they meet the dietary requirements of the surgery, it impacts you. when you watch your mother pile on kilo after kilo because she doesn't care what she eats cos she has the runs ALL THE TIME as a result of the gastric bypass and malnutrition, it impacts you. when you can't go out anywhere with your mother because chances are high she will have an accident from said constant runs, it impacts you. when you are overweight yourself and trying to lose weight and fighting the battles keike mentioned due to PCOS, and instead of support, you get the "why not just have surgery, it's so much easier" line, it impacts you. when you have to have written rules on what a grandmother can feed her grandchild just to make sure said grandchild isn't eating the same crap you ate growing up, it impacts you
i've seen the best and worst of this surgery. if someone doesn't follow the recommendations of the surgery it leads to further, and more dangerous, complications. if you can't change your mind to see past this as the cure and see it only as a boost, you will not have success - and it can, and does, have a MASSIVE impact on those close to you. society as a whole may think it's not a drama and each to their own - but it does hurt others. trust me - i've lived it from the age of 11 so 20 years of the side effects impacting me
Well obviously I'm speaking in generalisations here, and assuming that the individual in question has been made aware of the process, the implications and understands that weight-loss surgery isn't somehow a magical 'cure' for fat and that they can then proceed to stuff themselves stupid with fried, sugary or otherwise unhealthy food and somehow never gain another ounce. I'm speaking more about people who, for whatever reason, feel that the surgery would help them but are afraid of feeling judged as 'undeserving' by others.
I had lap banding surgey in october last year....starting weight was 160kg - so very much morbid obesity - despite my physical job.
I have lost 45kg since then, and have undergone a lifestyle revolution/resolution? during this time. With the support of a dietician and using the 'portion perfection' plate i have completely changed not only the type of food i eat, but quite simply the amount of food i eat also. Yeah sometimes i will blow out, but usually end up feeling quite average so that i try and avoid that happening to the best of my ability.
I am going to the gym and averaging 9-12km a session - and go at least 3 times per week.
People have to be ready to make it a lifestyle choice... it is not the miracle quick fix. It took me 32 years to get so fat, and will be happy even if it takes me 32 months to get to a healthy weight range.
I am available if you have any questions that i might be able to help you with.
I had a gastric sleeve done a week ago. It was a big decision. There is a long process including seeing a dietician before hand.
Reading this thread has only reinforced why I have only told 1 close friend that I have had it done, who is very supportive. Quite sad how negative people are about it.
I think there is certainly a reason for it - but with caution. I have a friend who had the surgery years back and lost lots of weight but was uncomfortable and didn't enjoy the tiny amounts of food she could eat. She was considering having it reversed.
I know that nutrition counselling is very important afterwards as it can be easy to miss out on essential nutrients when tiny amounts are being eaten.
Howdy, I posted ages ago in a thread on surgery (that lap band thingo). But no one ever responded to it... hmmmm maybe I'm on everyone block list :think: lol Anyway I'm against it! My sister is very large and she had the surgery. It has done nothing for her. I suspect that it has something to do with the science behind excess calorie consumption making people fat coupled with lack of exercise, not just portion control and the amount of food that you eat. No doubt she kept eating crap food and consuming too many calories makes you put on weight. If she had just restricted calories or at least only ate healthy food and got a little more active she would have lost weight anyway without the surgery (which didn't work anyway). This is just one story though, maybe going to such extremes is just what some people need to make a permanent change to the way they eat.
I also love the new ad "don't stop, just swap" Best advice the government has ever given!!!
My thoughts are the same as everyone else, though i do have some experience in this field as a nurse who has worked with these patients.
Without the will power and determination to lose the weight, the surgery is utterly useless along with having many risks and complications.
I have looked after many people who have had the surgery only to have real bad complications. beit not being able to eat, severe vomiting, infection, slipped band etc.
But the worse ones we always came across were the ones having sleeve gastrectomies. This is a major surgery. And what really annoyed me is that the doctors often would do the surgery on very large patients, because they obviously have a lot of issues with regards to their health. But little did the doctors think about the post operative period. They would put these people through massive surgery without really thinkiing about how things were going to go afterwards, and how cooperative the patient would be with recovery.
I can think of two cases where the patients were very large and were non-compliant with medical advice. the doctors would do the surgery then leave it to the nurses to clean up the mess so to speak. these patients didnt want to remain fasting for the required period, didnt want to do physio and were verbally aggressive to staff. these two patients ended up eating postop within the time frame specified by the drs due to healing surgical incisions. which led them to have food leak into their bodies. which they didnt seem to understand. and no matter how many times youd explain it to them, they wouldnt listen.
this leakage would then lead to fistulas (which are cavities in the body which are very difficult to heal), causing the patient to have oozing holes in their bodies.
they didnt want to get out of bed and do the required exercise postop, preferring to stay in bed and have everyone serve them hand and foot. with no consideration for the nurses who might injure their backs when the patient didnt feel like helping lift their own weight. now there is no way as yet that has been designed to transfer very large people without putting strain on the health care workers backs etc.
their partners were also part to blame, not wanting to do what the nurses wanted. often making excuses for the patient and becoming aggressive towards staff. and the patients often knew how to get their way with their loved one, having done it for many years.
Now i dont want you to get the wrong idea, that these people annoyed me. what annoyed me was that the doctors didnt think about the psychological side of the surgery and recovery. that these patients ended up with horrible complications, which also eventually led to death. and i grew very close to these patients. and they didnt end up having much quality in their life, due to being hospitalised for long periods of time, pain and inability to eat.
I am not saying i am against the surgery, just that when the surgery is contemplated that people think really hard about it. that they are fully informed of what is expected of them in the post op period. and a psychologist or someone similar should be consulted as to the psychological preparedness for this kind of surgery.
Im sorry if this post offends anyone. i am merely trying to pervay my thoughts. and to stop what happened to these patients happening to someone else. coz noone deserves to live the way these people had to after the surgery. may they rip.
if you have made the decision whole heartedly, i have nothing against it. if you have made the choice to go to the effort you deserve all the benefits this surgery can give you. as i understand some people cant lose the weight no matter how hard they try. and this surgery just gives them the little help they need along with their will power to succeed. i wish you all the best and you should not be ashamed of your decision. at least you have made a decision to make your life healthier.:
well done, i wish you all the best on your journey.:
i feel for you. i am sorry you had to go through all of this. i have nursed a few people who were unwell after their surgery and know what you mean. and even when they are so sick they can barely move they still eat dimsims and drink coke etc. even when whatever they put in oozes out of them. that they are fed through a tube. that they are so malnourished they have osteoporosis and crush fractures to their spine. i would not wish this upon anyone and feel sorry that you had to watch it happen to your mother. i wish you all the best with your weight loss and teaching your children the important facts of healthy living.:
congratulations on your weight loss.:
the only criticism i have is that it can affect others. as after the surgery these people can be in hospital around 10 months of the year, which leads to a massive drain on the health system.