Vaccination related VENT of a different kind...

Some of you might alreaady know that we've decided that at this point in time we are not comfortable with the idea of vaccinating DS or DD. I promise I'm not going to make this post into a argument about whether people should vaccinate or not, because all previous medical histories aside, we probably would have vaccinated. And at the end of the day, my post has nothing to do with whether it's the right or wrong thing to do...

Ok, so I've had a couple of "Immunisation Concientious Objection" forms half filled out for months. My part is all done, but we needed someone to sign it. The person needs to have a particular type of provider number and sign it under the condition that they believe we are "informed". I called the office of the doctor I initially discussed vaccines with, but she is no longer working there so I couldn't get her to sign it. I've also called the psychiatrist that we saw who specialises in children on the autistic spectrum (and also studies vaccines), but we saw him so long ago that we would have had to make a new appointment to get him to sign the forms. He's on the other side of the city so that was too hard with a baby that screams blue murder in the car. I actually HAD an appointment with my GP, but he wouldnt sign it because he couldn't find his vaccine information booklet and claimed that he hadn't fulfilled his duty to "inform" us, despite me being able to probably tell him more about the vaccines than he knew himself!

A few phone calls later and I was put through to the health services of our council offices. After explaining the situation the guy was very helpful and told me he could sign the form and had a provider number. He told me to go to our local library which has council service desks, have the forms emailed to him and he would send them back completed. So I did that. A couple of hours later I get a call from a woman telling me that the usual course of action was for me to have an appointment with one of their nurses (a different one to our normal MCHN nurse who is supportive of our decision...) and then she could sign it. The made me an appointment to see this nurse. The appointment was tonight and was directly before a vaccination evening, so they were setting up all their vaccines when I arrived.

So by this point in time I'm already annoyed about how hard this whole process is being. I never in my wildest nightmares thought that I would have to sit with my babies in front of THREE people and explain myself for over half an hour! They were absolutely horrible to me and tried every tactic to make me feel like the worst mother in the world!!!

I first had to explain to them why we were choosing not to vaccinate. I explained our family history of vaccine reactions, then explained the overwhelming number of children on the autistic spectrum in both our families and our trepidation of vaccinating when the jury is still out on the potential link with vaccines. Both concerns were practically dismissed and they went on to try to guilt me. "You know they need to be vaccinated to go to school?", I explained that no, they don't, the school just needs to be aware of their vaccination status. "Well you know that if the school finds out there is an infectious disease in the school the kids will have to stay home?". Good! I'm happy to have them away from an infectious disease regardless of their vaccination status! Here's where they try to really guilt me though... "Well how would you feel if there was a child who was having chemo and couldn't have their own vaccinations, and had a weakened immune system, and your child was a carrier of a disease?". OMG, seriously?! I just said, well I wouldn't have the kids near that kid. But what I really wanted to scream was that it's not my responsibility to look out for that other kid's safety! It's my job to do what I believe is in the best interest of MY children, NOT someone else's! I also got the speil about "herd immunity". Yes, I get it, I understand all this. Call me selfish, but I care more about my kid's than anyone elses. Do they actually think that a vaccinated child can never catch anything or be a carrier? Surely they must understand that for a vaccine to actually do something the child first has to catch the disease. It's not a magic impenetrable barrier...

And here comes the worst part... The guy said this with the most horrible attitude, "Have you ever actually SEEN a child with whooping cough? You have? So you know how bad it can be?". I wanted to scream back "Have you ever seen a dead baby? Because that was almost me after I HAD the whooping cough vaccine. And have you seen a person with a serious lifelong skin condition? Because that's my sister since she had the whooping cough vaccine. And how about you come help us raise my step son who is severely affected by being on the autistic spectrum?".

When I mentioned that both my kids have been extremely healthy and are both still breastfed, I was told that my breastmilk doesn't protect them from anything.

After about half an hour the guy actually got up and walked out looking disgusted at me. And while one woman told me she would reluctantly sign the forms, the other woman was muttering something under her breath. I finally got the signed forms and was able to give them to another lady outside that would send it in with all the vacc forms they were going to do that night.

I walked out of there with two children that were at the end of their patience and I was so angry! I fumed all the way home, and when I got home I realised that not once did I actually feel upset, which I believe means that I don't feel guilty about my choice, just completely angry with how I was treated. I understand that it's their job to inform of the risk of not vaccinating, BUT shouldn't that mean that they should also have the responsibility of informing of the risk involved WITH vaccinating? Not once did they even acknowledge that there are any risks involved. And it's certainly not their job to judge a descion made by a parent! No parent makes a decision like this because they want to HARM their child!!!

Wow, I cannot believe that they would make it so hard.
Glad you got it all sorted now though

Hugs hun I am so sorry you have been treated so badly that is not the way that MCHN are ment to discuss with you, they are there to give info and support your choices.

So sorry again xoxoo

What a nasty bunch :(

I think you should put in a formal complaint, while you're still angry. Can you imagine what might've happened to another Mum who wasn't as eloquent as you? It is their responsibility to INFORM, not FORCE. That kind of attitude from doctors makes me sick :protest:

Huge hugs hun. It is noone's business but yours how you choose to bring up your children. All they needed to know is that you are informed and educated. Looks to me like you are making an informed and well thought-out decision. They should have been able to see that. Some people are ignorant to all but what they think is right. Every family and child is different and you have your reasons for choosing as you have. I am glad you didn't feel guilty about your choices. And it is all a choice for individual families. It sounds to me like yours has been very informed and well researched decision, poo to anyone who challenges that!

Goodness me, it's your choice! They had no right to make you feel guilty. I'm with Keike - I'd be putting in a complaint.

that is disgusting :( :hug: xoxox

Oh Hun that's just appaling. You did an amazing job of keeping your cool and explaining your rationale. They went waaaay beyond their reasonable responsibility of 'informing' you - what you received was emotional blackmail, manipulation and judgement. So sorry you went through this crap but glad you got those forms signed.

Great big hugs.

That's awful :( Well done for sticking up for yourself and your babies, though - I'm such a pushover I probably would've been coerced into agreeing with them... :comfort:


Sent from my iPhone so forgive the speelung misstacks ;)

What a horrible experience :hug:

It's your choice, really, I don't get why your parenting choices bother other people that much. Why should you have to justify yourself to get them to sign that form. All you should have to say is that you are aware of the risks, you researched it and you have decided against vaxing. Your actual reasons, are really none of their business. They just need to know that you understand the decision you are making. It should not ever have become a debate - or a test of your knowledge on the situation.

I am so sorry you went through that :hug:

**Sigh** In the manufacture's instructions it says that family history of vaccine reaction is one of the contradictions to vaccination. Contradictions are placed in the information pamphlet for a reason, they shouldn't be ignored because of a one-size fits all mentality. You are right to feel annoyed - your family history isn't irrelevant. Unfortunately, having looked at the NSW MCHN handbook it encourages the emotional blackmail approach rather than either addressing parents concerns, or accepting and admitting that there are times where caution is required. Not a good policy in my opinion no matter which side of the vaccination debate someone stands. To add to that, that this situation smells a little bit like an attempt to entrap you into vaccinating (quick, convince her to vaccinate and jab the kid before she can change her mind), doesn't help the situation, and could be an undertone to some of what you are feeling.

At the end of the day, it is you and your children they have to live with the consequences of not vaccinating (either good or bad), so you have to make decisions you are comfortable with. I fully understand the feelings provoked when people try to make you feel like you are being a bad parent because you choose not to vaccinate. For most, it's not a choice made on a whim, or from a fluffy philosophy, but one that is motivated by being child-centred - exactly the same motivation most people use for vaccinating.

I would write a letter of complaint. this is a very clear case of bullying. You were not required to sit before a panel and be judged. This should of been a simple discussion where they lay out their responsibilites as health care and vaccination providers and where you state in simple terms that this is a decision you have taken based on your own family circumstance. This is a clear case of harrassment. I am so sorry that you were subjected to that :hug:

I would also do a follow up check that those forms have found the right home. wouldnt want anything to get "accidently" lost in transit IYKWIM.

Hopefully next time your GP will have his booklet by his side!

That's really awful
If you're up for it, I agree about writing a complaint. There's really no call for treating you and your kids that way.

Thank you all for your support. Reading through the responses I get angry again, but this time it's almost like a cleansing anger, rather than the all-encompassing rage I felt earlier, lol. Many of you have advised writing a complaint, and I think I might do that. I'll have to look into who to send it to, because I have a feeling that the health services in our council offices are fairly small and they all know each other. Because of that I have doubts as to whether anything would be done about a complaint. Actually, I know that our Mayor is an amazing man and he is extremely family-friendly so I might write to him. His office is actually at my local library as well...

I can't believe how hard I tried to convince them that I wasn't doing a bad thing. I shouldn't have even bothered. If it hadn't been for that stupid form that medicare and centrelink both want, I would have just walked out. Even DH is angry and wishes I hadn't had to go.

The funny thing is that I'm not actually against vaccinations. Even after all my research, and my knowledge of my family history, our decision not to vaccinate at this point in time was one of the hardest decisions we've had to make. So for them to try to make me feel like I was a bad mother for not doing what was "best" in their eyes is just unacceptable.

Yeddi - I wish I had known about the manufacturers instructions. Would you believe that the whole time they were talking to me one of them was sitting there drawing up vaccine into syringes for their vaccination night? Lol, I could have just grabbed one of the information leaflets out of one of the boxes and pointed out the contradiction. That would have been hilarious!

Oh, and here's how "informed" they are themselves... When I rose my concern about how many vaccines are given at once, and that I might have chosen to vaccinate for some things if they could be done separately, one of the woman told me that people get them done separate all the time. She said the mother's bring the kids in to get the needles one at a time. When I told her that I doubted they had anything with the whooping cough vaccine in it as less than a 5in1, she looked at the other woman for confirmation. The other woman just nodded and said they only had 6in1's. I feel sorry for anyone that has to stand up to them that hasn't done quite as much research as I have.

Cassius - I'll deifnitely be following up on the forms :) Luckily the lady that I had to give the forms to at the end seemed quite nice and explained that she sends off the forms and that I would receive a letter in the mail about it.

That is really really bad Mylitta, unfortunately far too many doctors (and nurses) bully people into having many things, not just vaccinations (as many mothers will know). It's so wrong and the worst thing is it's counterproductive, it doesn't even help their cause it's just stupid!

You should defiantly complain. I found this ABC article about health complaints a while ago that might help:

How to make a complaint - Health & Wellbeing

Good luck!

OMG I am so angry for you!!!!! You should not have had to go through that at all! All I did was go to my GP and she said 'yeah the risks are blah blah but I'm sure you know that' and signed my form.

Definitely write a complaint, that is awful!! :hug:

:hug: hun, i'd be making a complaint.
They are there to make sure your informed and to provide guidance, not to judge and manipulate the way you raise your children.

That is an INSANE story! :angry: I am really angry for you! What year are we living in for freak sake? :wall: I really think you should complain. I wish I was there with you to stand up and tell them what for grrrrrr.

I got a form signed from a GP but didn't lodge it anywhere. I don't know where or why it needs to be lodged with anyone really, it's no-ones business at this stage as ds is not in daycare or school.

Gosh the more I read about professional bullying the more thankful I am for my pregnancy and birth with the carers that I had. No one said anything about any of our choices. They didn't even come near us with a needle in the hospital and were extremely supportive of all our decisions.

Oh my goodness I am so angry for you! My GP actually encouraged me to have my forms filled in so I would have no pressure for the immunisation register whilst I was deciding which, if any, vaccinations to accept. No belittling, no arguing. He knew my reasons and chose to support me instead of bully me. There is no way you should have faced that treatment, and personally I would be putting in a complaint against the GP too for not having access to the information he needed to support you.

Disgusting! I don't understand why people need to be like that about anything! I agree with the others, complain & do it now.