What makes a child turn into a bully?

I was at a play cafe sorta thing this morning, all the kids (about 2 - 4 yrs) all playing nicely.....

Until this little 'red head' boy - about the same size as DD started being really rough with the kids, my DD in particular.

On 2 ocassions he knocked her down, pushed himself on top of her and started hitting her. Not realising the boy's mum was next to me I said 'what the f**k' and she only then started making her way over and pulling her son off my DD.

Then later he grabbed her shirt and pulled her back really harshly - DD had been trying to stay away from him but he seemed to just want to pick on her. After a short time from that episode the boys mum called him over as they were going to leave and I saw him grab a strong hold of his mum and angrily shove and push her!!

So, I started wondering - what makes a child a bully?

Monkey see, monkey do?

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Monkey see, monkey do?

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See it's people who think that, that make me feel like I must be doing the worst job as a parent. :(

I have a rough 2 year old. She hits, scratches, pushes, and lashes out at other children if I let her out of my sight for 30 seconds. We don't do any of that to her, neither does her sister. I don't know where she gets it from. She's not in childcare, no one else looks after her except me.

It is hard, it makes me want to cry just typing this post. I have stopped going to playgrounds, i try not to visit friends who have smaller kids she might hurt. I don't accept offers to look after her as I know if someone isn't watching her as closely as I do she'll hurt someone. I am hoping it's just a phase she is going through and that she will become the gentle loving child I hope to raise.

The only thing I can say is that if a parent knows their child can be a bully they certainly shouldn't leave them unattended. I try not to ever, although she still manages to hurt other kids sometimes. :cry:

Im sorry I made you feel that way, it wasnt my intention. I was just suggesting some options. Could it be your DD is doing it for attention from you. I just noticed you have a 4 year old aswell as she may feel that she needs to act this way to get you to notice her, even if its in the wrong way. Please dont take that the wrong way.

I also think some foods (preservatives etc) set some kids off. Some kids can just very nasty when they have been given a certain additive.

Also, maybe its just because he was a red head? lol. I went to a 6 year olds birthday party on the weekend and gosh... there was this red head there and he was just out of control. lol. Please, nobody take offense to this. Im not saying YOUR red head is out of control.

Sometime its hard to say things on BB because it can be taken so many different ways and no one can hear the expression etc behind what your saying.

Yeah I agree with jm. It's unfair to make comments like 'monkey see monkey do'. You really have no idea why children can act out like that. It could be a whole bunch of different factors.

Junglemum - :( I know how you feel :( my DD is a biter and I have stopped seeing friends atm as I just dont know how to deal with the biting anymore! I have tried everything! I dont even go to playgroup or rhyme time anymore coz I dont want to be judged if she does lash out.....

Well definitely not his red hair :lol: I have a red hair boy who would not hurt a fly, for some reason his red hair seems to make him a target at play centres for other bullies :)

Some kids just have trouble expressing how they are feeling and they act out.
Some kids are over stimulated. It could be anything like diet related or playing video games not age appropriate.

It's really hard from afar to know what is going on, I have a GF with a little boy who was rough. She is gentle, he has an older sister who is calm and gentle, it's just who he is. He has heaps of energy.
It could be a rush of hormones for some boys, I think it's at around the age of 5 or 6 they get a big injection of male hormones.

Steve Bippuph was a big help for us when it came to boys, he explained a a true life story of a young boy who was misbehaving, his Dad was a truckie and not home alot. The Dad changed jobs and was home alot more and the boys behaviour changed dramatically in the right direction.

It's one of those things, until you walk a mile in someones elses shoes, you just never know.

I don't mean to direct my comments at boys, it can be either.

I don't know Lees. I'm asking myelf this at the moment as their seems to be a bit of it at Kinder.

In some instances, I think it is about attention seeking.
In other instances, it is about power.
In other instances it is about feeding off of parents (as is the case at Kinder at the moment) and copying parental behaviours.
In other instances it's about frustration and not knowing how to vent.

Sorry DD was picked on today

It upsets me because I'm sure that's what most people think, not particularly that you said it. maybe I used to think that until I discovered otherwise. :dunno:

She gets lots of attention, 3 days with just me. I kind of think it's 50% strong personality and the remainder is her pushing the limits, seeing what reactions she can get, what she can get away with.

And yes, my daughter is a red head...

It is probably one of those nature/nurture things. You could ask what makes one child shy, or another quiet, another one adventurous etc. Sometimes as well kids will behave in different ways around different kids. I knew one little boy that every time he got around DD2, he got rough with her. It was not his normal personality, not what he would do with other kids, it was just the way he acted around her.

The red head thing is an unnecessary comment jm. Forget you even read it. Totally unfair that it even got mentioned in this thread.

Thanks tash, I was actually quite proud after the first and only set of tears dd got back in and amongst it all - it probably bothered me more as I recall vaguely being bullied when I was 5 or 6 by two much older girls on one occasion.

I feel for you mumma's who aren't comfortable taking your kids out to a playground incase they play too roughly with others. That'd be so hard...

I hope I haven't upset anyone in writing this thread *hugs to all*

I think a lot of it is about frustration because kids are so limited in their abilities. I also think sometimes it's a power dynamic, especially if the child is in trouble a lot, they seem to take this out in kids smaller than them. Then there are all the phases that ALL children go through, such as biting, hitting, pushing etc. Someone could see my dd as a bully if you caught us on a bad day during a pushing phase.

I think they grow out of these behaviours if shown gentle etc, but in the meantime. I think other parents need to be tolerant to some extent (obviously the situation in the op is extreme I'm talking about a bit of jostling).

I know lots of mums who feel they have to isolate their kid while an aggressive phase is in full swing...it really sucks.

You haven't upset me. :)

My daughters behavior upsets me. And I hate that she hurts other kids. I feel so bad for them if I'm not quick enough, let's face it, I'm about as fast as a beached whale atm.

I wish I knew why she did it. It would make our lives so much easier.

I think it's a good thread, I might get some tips and other people might see that it's not always a case of bad patenting.

P.S - I only identified the boy as having red hair as it was the only thing that stood out about him. DD has red-ish coloured hair too ;). If the kid had red cheeks or curly hair etc I would have referred to those ;).

I wish I knew... seems that Oskar, who is 4, has picked up pushing from somewhere... not really sure where? He says it's because at kindy "everyone pushes me"... well, obviously not everyone, but in his eyes it is. I have told kindy the reason he told me he pushed a couple of others so they're more aware of it now. I don't know, cos we don't push each other and he doesn't have other siblings who do either.

That's just the thing, I've seen jostling happen to dd by another kid in the past, geez our dd and ds do that to each other every now and then - but today this kid was laying into her - I thought I was watching a brawl at the pub or something!

Around here the babies seem to come in batches and out of every batch there is a rough one. They are all from good families, there seems to be no obvious reason for it and I see how much it frustrates their mothers.

I personally think it is a mixture of age and personality. Most of them seem to be subsequent children and have grown up learning to stand up for themselves among their siblings. It is just a thing that some kids do - some tantrum, some whinge, some hit and kick. They are all just learning to control their emotions and they lack the impulse control to stop themselves even if they know it is the wrong thing to do. Obviously there are kids that are modeling behaviour they see or are acting out for attention, but just as often they are just going through a phase.

JM, the red hair thing is unfair and nothing to do with anything. S is beautiful and when she is a bit older she will grow out of the rougher aspects of her personality and you will be left with a very naturally confident girl. And BTW, I wouldn't assume that anyone is a terrible mother because their kid is rough, especially if she was monitoring the behaviour. It is only when the kid is left to run riot that I would get annoyed.

JM - maybe it's a second girl thing because DD2 is much more forceful and physical than DD1 was. Most of her aggression is directed at DD1 though and she is as sweet as pie and totally empathetic to anyone else! She first bit her sister at 6m old and then quickly moved on to hair pulling, pinching, pushing and hitting.

In her case I think it is the fact that she gets frustrated trying to keep up with her sister and also that DD1 is very bossy verbally so DD2 lashes out by being bossy physically. Maybe some kids just don't limit themselves tho their siblings :dunno:

In your case too JM she is probably sensing that things will change again with a new baby and that can increase their anxiety - I know DD1 went through a tough phase when I was pregnant.

I also have a child that at times I'm sure has been labelled a 'bully' by other mums. I'm with JM, its heartbreaking. You think you are doing an awesome job but then you take them to the playground and they get so rough its embarrassing. I have left peoples houses in tears before. Its hard. I know the feeling JM, big hugs.

I think the answer is different for every kid.

My DS2 is a bully. He is large for his age and has no problem beating up older siblings or others children (sadly DS1 is his biggest victim). He isn't even 2 yrs old yet. I know why HE does it. He wants attention. When he does something naughty, he gets attention (how can he not? I am not about to let him get away with hitting, pinching, pulling hair, biting, other kids). It doesn't matter to him that it is negative attention. He doesn't understand the impact of his behaviour or have the forethought to care about what the consequences will be. Doing what he does, gets him what he wants. From his perspective, it works.

Truthfully, I do what I can. I intervene, I redirect, I don't tolerate him being physical with other kids. I try to give him as much one on one attention as possible (which is hard with 3 young kids) when he is behaving and doing the right thing. And I live in hope that as he grows he will grow out of this behaviour and agressiveness.

I understand that kids (at young ages in particular) can bully others for many different reasons, and that the parents may have very little control over this behaviour. However, I LOATH seeing other parents who choose to ignore this bad behaviour rather then deal with it. You may not be able to 'stop' your kids being a bully, but you can teach them consequences, and you have a duty to protect other children from YOUR child. I know my DS2 is a bully. I accept it. But I still have a responsibility to other parents and children to do what I can to prevent his bad behaviour and not put others at risk. Some parents don't seem to understand that and will sit watching their kid behave badly with no intervention. That is not on. It benefit no-one and certainly not the kid who is being the bully, because they are learning that they can behave that way with no consequences.

I'm not sure you can get called a 'bully' just yet? DS1 can be soooo awful sometimes. More often at home than when we are out (which is a blessing, but it does mean that some people don't believe me when i say he is a hitter/pusher). He is very rough with his DS2. He's normally fine at Occasional care, and although once the teacher told me that he was pushing around the little baby whose mum was on kinder duty. Embarrassing - he picked on the little baby! But he's done it to big kids too.

I think we all go through stages like this with our sons and daughters (regardless of their hair colour). We need to be more aware that they are little kids and they are struggling still to understand the big world and their place in it. Instead of calling a young child a bully in our head, maybe we could say to oursleves - there goes my child on a bad day, and that poor mum, she must feel like i feel sometimes.

Jennie13. Biting is really really common at that age! It's often about an inability to communicate and frustration. You shouldn't worry. She's still just a baby - and it really will pass. Keep going out!

My nephew used to be a very rough kid (ironically he's a strawberry blonde but was a red head as a baby) and my sister took him to a child psych and basically in his case, it was a combination of she wasn't being authoritative enough, lack of a strong male role model, and possibly genetics - his dad is a douchebag (like, physically abusive, needed to get a restraining order out on him type douchebag). She thought he had ADHD but the doctor said thats often just a cop out diagnosis and gave her techniques to try first.

They worked. My cousin's husband stepped in to provide the role model (until my sister met her husband), and my sister has stepped up and not let him push her around - which sounds like what might be happening to the boys mother. My sister had been gentle parenting him (which I'm all for if thats what you want to do) but in his case, it was just not an effective way of parenting, and I'm sure there are other children out there who are the same, myself as a child included. He has made vast improvements over the last 3 years, and now that he has a baby brother he is even better - giving him a sense of responsibility has helped incredibly. He has also grown up a bit - the terrible 2's are called that for a reason, and sometimes they stick around for whatever reason! He still has his moments but they are few and far between, and usually confined to the rugby field!

So I guess every child is different, and the reasons everybody has suggested are all possible really!

I think it could be attention & perhaps a way of expressing how they are feeling - ie: anger, frustration, they are trying to connect/play with other kids. Some kids it is hard for them to verbalize what they are feeling, so they act out in different ways ie: cry/hit/bite

My DS is a bully.

I just don't know what to do about it. :(

I keep hearing from everyone (My mum, well meaning friends and relatives) that he NEEDS to go to daycare to be "socialised" on how to act around other children...personally,I feel it would just make things worse...
He is not a bully to me or DP, its only other children, doesnt matter if they are older, bigger etc. DP and I don't hit him, or each other, he doesnt watch violent tv shows, I give him PLENTY of attention.
I always intervene and now watch him like a hawk when around other kids, but one thing I have noticed and that scares me a little, is that if the child cries, or whines, and comes up with "Jacob hit/slapped/pinched/scatched me" he will keep doing it. and laughs while doing it, like its all good fun.
He tried it on his 7 yr old cousin the other day who started pretending to karate chop him, then laughed and ran away, Jacob thought it was hilarious and has never tried it again?
I just don't know, Im scared he will really hurt someone.
I can totally empathise with those of you whose children are similar.

:hug: Starrysky. I could never send her to care at the moment. She'd just hurt other kids and I don't see how that's going to help. Sure she'll learn consequences off someone else , ie the carer, but I'm not sure I'd like that, or that it would help. no one would like her and I'm sure she then wouldnt enjoy going. And all for what? So someone else can tell her off? They are only little and if we keep showing them the correct way and reinforcing that hurting isn't nice it has to get better. Doesn't it?! Dd1 went through a really rough phase, not as bad as Dd2, but I remember posting about it because I was worried. She is now very gentle and loving, in fact I think she needs to learn some personal space boundaries and not cuddle the kids at kinder so much!!!! She's my light at the end of the tunnel though. I really hope this is just a phase with DD1 too.

I think consistency and reinforcing that it is wrong is the key, I hope so anyway.

Thanks for all the reassurance everyone. :hug:

Nai- I think you are right, new baby, dad away, living with someone else all must be making her life a bit stressful right now.

My DS is 5. He is not a bully but he does play rough sometimes and occasionally other kids get hurt (or DS gets hurt!). I really think he just has poor impulse control and an abundance of energy. He is enthusiastic about everything he does and sometimes that flows into inappropriate, poorly considered behaviour. We are working very hard at understanding decision making and consequences of those decisions. The problem is that the cognitive development in males which enables them to adequately assess risk and understand consequence is not fully developed until early twenties. Girls are a little earlier. I want DS to consistently do something his brain is not yet wired to do!

I have never seen DS deliberately hurt another child for the sake of causing them pain. But I have seen him lash out when things don't go his way (particularly with his sister who is 8) and often I have seen him get carried away with a physical game which results in tears for someone. I am sure some parents would label my kid 'rough'.

I am constantly aware of what DS is doing and I step in if a game is getting out of hand. I can relate to that feeling, when a child comes crying, of 'ahhhh.... please don't let my kid be the cause!'.

I think very few young children should be labelled 'bullies'. Every kid has behaviours which they need assistance to improve. Some kids make poor decisions, some kids need to develop some resilience, others need to be more assertive.

ETA We are working at 'listening'. DS is often so engaged in a game that when another child indicates they have had enough and don't want to play any more, DS continues with the game until the other child becomes upset and frustrated. DS then becomes upset that he has made his friend unhappy, but we are trying to get him to make that decision earlier to avoid the eventual tears... It's a continual work in progress!

I wonder if it can sometimes have something to do with the birth order itself!? DS1 was (and still can be for the most part) the most placid little boy. I like to think it's a result of his personality and our parenting combinded.

DS2 on the otherhand can be much cheekier. I think the days of DS1 having the upperhand just because of his size have frustrated him enough and he lashes out to try and show his own authority. He has taken to biting and DS1 cops it a number of times a week. I too keep an extra watch on him when playing other children.

I don't know (and hope that it won't) mean that my DS2 will be a bit of a bully when he doesn't get his own way but that is his learnt behaviour being the little brother. From Day 1 i have encouraged love and kindness between the two of them, hugs and say sorry when you've been unkind to eachother but it still doesn't always help. It's not accepteable in our house and i tell the boys that, trying to explain how they hurt the other, made them feel sad, you need to make them happy again... Just trying to think about feelings.

It's so hard and us as parents are often blamed and maybe we don't always have control over who our littles ones become. All we can do is try our best.

Having said that.... I have a nephew that just the other day DH and i were discussing and i can see him being a bully in some way... He already is... I'm not saying this lightly and it does saden me to say it but he is nasty. He grabs his older female cousins breasts, he pulled my DS's pants down in front of everyone, he smacks the females in the family on the backside with real attitude he does not listen to authority at all. It's disturbing to watch as the parents laugh if off and say 'oh don't do that...' never ever taking it more seriously than that. Truthfully it's pretty scary to see a 5 year old acting like this. I am at the point now where if i ever see him do anything towards my children i will say something and not wait for the parents to because they won't. I'm sure from just reading that you would be wondering what goes on at home and i do too, i think the respect for woman is a big issue there but respect in general is aswell.

So what i'm thinking is that in some cases yes it can be from what they learn at home aswell.

Only read up to the read head post... i looooove little red heads so damm cute! The bullies at my school done it for attention. Sorry DD was bullied.

I really don't think kids of 2 and 3 years are actually bullies. So many factors can make some children more rough than others. Over stimulation, diet, verbal skills, temperament and the fact that most children have trouble regulating their emotions at this age. Toddlers don't really have self control so, even if they know a behaviour is wrong they often just can't resist :) the majority of children who are rough at this age will grow out of it in time.

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Starrysky - I just read what you said about sending your child to daycare. Don't hate me but….judging from my own situation, I think it can actually be a really good idea. Not saying it would work for everyone but what we find with DS is that he is definitely naughtiest with us. He can be really really rough to other kids and gets so over the top with bossiness, and being demanding, and tantruming etc. But at school he is an angel. He plays so well with other kids, and really fits in well. We have clear consistent rules at home, but at school he really lives the idea that everyone has the same rules, that being rough leads him to miss out while other kids are having fun, and that just as the rules mean he can't do certain things - they also mean that he is protected from those things like other kids hitting him. It isn't that the teachers are better at controlling him, its just that there he doesn't have us, so he is one in a crowd, and the whole group structure seems to work well for him. It is a different situation and in it he is a different child. To be honest I am not totally sure how or why it works, but I have heard from teachers that it is pretty common. Here at home we have good and bad weeks but at school he just seems to have good weeks if that makes sense. Just a different perspective I guess :)