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Hi there,
At my local coles (and apparently at MacDonalds everywhere for almost a year?? shows how infrequently I go ...) it's now the case that with any Visa, Mastercard or AMEX it automatically accepts the transaction without the need for PIN or signature :o
And no one I've spoken to (including Mr Google) knows any way I can opt out of this "helpful" facility.
Anyone else know?
I really, really don't like it. I don't want it. Boo.
Peanutter, I have had exactly the same experience. Didn't ask for it, don't want it. However, I believe it only applies to transactions under $30 so I haven't applied myself to finding out with any force.
I heard it advertised again today and it's for purchases of $100 or less only. I still don't like it either!:
the coles info sheet says $35, but I'm *not* happy ...
You can choose to do the 'swipe and go' thing that's being advertised which is for purchases of $100 and under. But you can choose to do that over signing/entering your pin. Not sure you can actually opt out for places like McDonalds (who only do it for purchases under $30). You can obviously advise you wish to sign/enter your pin, but I don't think you can make that apply to your card no matter who uses it. I'd call your bank perhaps?
Pay cash rather than cards? That's what I tend to do at busy places anyway, even when I have to enter PINs.
Not very happy about it either, I would rather wait 30 seconds and sign or enter my pin than just swipe. It's not a inconvenience to do so at all!
I hand over my card and say savings straight away. (that way they put it in the normal eftpossy thingo) I don't like the idea of it at all. Ive looked into going to another bank because of this issue...
If you had your card stolen, they can use it at one store for 100dollars and then go to a different store, Use another 100 dollars. And so on until you reach an empty account. (they use 'credit' function so you have no 'daily limit')
Sorry for going on and on, but it grinds my gears too! Lol
Sent from my iPhone (via Tapatalk) so please forgive the spelling mistakes...
Unfortunately, it's not *you* they care about inconveniencing. Faster transactions mean shorter queues, which means less staff, which means more profit.:
Paying cash is a pretty good option, but it does require a bit more discipline.
I dont like it either. I dont see it as a very "safe" way to go. I think not asking for pins or signing with something like that is just asking for trouble in the future.
The thing is, you still have to wait for the transaction to be approved so it doesn't take less time except that the staff don't have to mess around looking for a pen.:
I am not entirely sure, but I think because you don't sign a receipt or enter a pin, if you were to dispute that amount being purchased on your card when you get your cc statement, they would have to refund the money because they don't have any proof that you signed for it. It really is going to give all new meaning to kids' stealing from their parents wallets. Not that I think most kids do or would, but it is just another window of opportunity that is unneccessary.
Also, they have the same thing at Kmart.
I think the only way to opt out is with cash.
I wondered about this. I would have assumed it would be an opt in function.
Will need to talk to my bank as they have moved my ATM card over to a Visa Debit (I did not ask for it) and I have no idea which account the Visa part links to. I have 2 accounts on that card and I don't want a transaction failing due it accessing the wrong account. Might need to do a 'test' one day and see what account it hits.
A visa debit card will only access the cash in your savings account. It's like a normal EFTPOS card but you an hit credit instead of savings.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It depends on how it's set up. DH and I have both cheque and savings accounts on our Visa debits, but the credit function takes it out of cheque for DH and savings for me.:
TBH - I don't really see how it's any different to "signing" - can anyone tell me the last time a salesperson actually looked at their sig??? Half the time they give me my card back before I've even signed!!!
Is it just for credit? Or any eftpos?
They always check at all our shops around here, if I forget and put the card away they ask to see it.
Wow BR thats top notch! Not so much around here :shakehead:
From the Visa website:
So it looks like your card needs to be set up for payWave http://www.visa-asia.com/ap/au/media...S_brochure.pdf:
Q&As
Q. Are these payments safe?
A. Yes, these transactions are still electronically authorised by the cardholder's financial institution and the security of the card has not been affected.
Q. What if a cardholder loses his/her Visa card and somebody else uses it?
A. The transactions are still electronically authorised to check if the card has been report lost or stolen.
We encourage cardholders to take good care of their Visa cards and to report lost or stolen cards to their card issuer promptly. By doing so, they will be entitled to all Visa card protection as stipulated in the agreement with the card issuing financial institution.
Q. What is the difference between Visa payWave and the Visa Easy Payment Service?
A. Visa payWave cards feature special contactless technology that allows the chip in the card to communicate with a special contactless reader. Visa payWave cards are identified by the Visa payWave logo and wave symbol. Cardholders simply hold the Visa payWave card against the reader to make the payment, with no need to sign or PIN for purchases up to $100.
The Visa Easy Payment Service offers the convenience and the speed of not having to provide a signature or PIN for transactions $35 or less, and applies to any existing Visa card at participating merchants. Cardholders will still need to swipe or insert their card.
So pretty much each time you use your CC you need to keep a note of it and check your bill carefully ...
My local IGA is the same and they also ask to see photo ID to make sure you are the owner of the card.:
The wave pay things scares me ... if your card is set up to wave pay, is there any danger that it could accidentally be billed for someone else's transaction by walking too close to the machine? I'm not sure that I am that busy that I can't afford 2 mins to swipe my card and have a transaction processed properly.
Apparently there's technology around that can swipe your credit card details via these handy little microchips. They just have to be standing within 10 metres of you with a scanner thingo or somthing along those lines. Nice, huh?
Well I like it less and less, having read all those answers.
I was going to say the same thing. And, what is the banks answer to avoiding this happening? Wrap your card in aluminum foil!!! lol:
And those scanners are available to anyone who wants to buy them...and they copy any id cards too, that have wireless chips.
From what I've found, there's no opt out :( and I asked to sign anyway, and they said that I can't.:
I really don't like carrying cash, because I often work very late in the city, and do not feel safe carrying around money, or going around without access to funds :(:
another bank won't help - unless you're going to go to Diners... it's going to cover Visa, Mastercard and AMEX. and re your 2nd point, exactly :(:
I don't think eftpos, but Visa Debit will, I gather.:
me too! grrr.:
eep! :o:
exactly, good question!! and then the only thing they say about "security" is:-:
Q. Are these payments safe?
A. Yes, these transactions are still electronically authorised by the cardholder's financial institution and the security of the card has not been affected.
I use pay wave at my office - they have installed the chip technology within our building access passes and the readers on the vending machines. I work for a bank so it's understandable that they have installed it...
Anyway, using it at work, I can safely say that those readers do not activate just as you walk past - there are like half a dozen machines on each floor (massive office) and people are constantly walking past them, I haven't heard of any "accidental" purchases.
You have to enter your selection first (as in the number of the item), then hold your card against the reader for a few seconds til it beeps. Based on that, I'd find it hard to believe you could be charged without intentionally putting your card onto the reader.
That's how it works at the machines at work anyway!
We try to use Visa Debit but have decided with the fast pay that we will get a separate account/card so everything is not linked. An extra PIA but better than losing some $$. Very annoying.
Wow OP, and then what, you put credit on your building pass?
I use it and don't mind it for places like Maccas etc. Not sure what the problem is if you check your receipt? No different to signing it and checking it for me, and if you card gets stolen, well I for one know that I would be pretty quick to report it and there are millions of other ways it could get used other than at a fast food place. I can't really see an issue with it TBH but maybe I am missing something :dunno:
My concern is the ease with which you can be ripped off before you know your card is gone (or even with the card still in your posession).
That said, this technology has been in use for some time overseas (I had such a card over 5 years ago), so maybe they've ironed out kinks...?
I went to our bank when we discovered about this $35 and under no pin and sign business you can't opt out no choice, but you can say before handing over you card I prefer to sign or pin the option is on the teller's screen but again it doens't cover you if you lose your card, the lady at bank kept syaing yes but tis only for purchases $35 and under I was like well whats stopping someone using the card a dozen times at the one shop she said oh our fraud department would be on to that quick smart it would show up as strange transactions
what ever
You can buy wallets/Purses with protective material inside to protect against unauthorised swiping.
I don't like it either. And I don't see how the banks will like it, as it means all those stolen credit cards will have lots of money they will need to refund.
Be careful, I wouldn't be surprised if they change their TOS to include:
"Any amounts under $100 stolen before a card is declared stolen will not be refunded" or some BS. I swear that's the only way they'll get around it.
Sorry Kaz yep the pass is like a pre-paid Visa, you load money onto it. You can use it like a Visa too, like a Visa debit anyway. They have recharge stations around the building where you swipe and transfer money onto it, or you can do it via Bpay.
I was reminded of when I went to the US for my honeymoon some 4yrs ago... my friend was living in San Fran for work so we stopped in to visit, her partner was visiting at the same time and he wasn't working, didn't have access to money or credit cards - so he used hers.
He would fully go to the supermarket, stock up, hand over her credit card, no signature required and no dramas. He's not even a SHE and it was ok. They weren't signing anything in the States. So I guess this is similar to that???
it kind of is litk Octopus cards in Hong Kong - which are tap and go, and you can use them for public transport, macdonalds, supermarkets, watsons (a pharmacy/drugstore), lots of other food retail outlets, 7-eleven, etc.
but you treat it differently from a credit card, because (a) it's debit and (b) if you lose it, it's gone! so there's less risk.
whereas with a credit card, your limit might be $1K or it might be $20K.
And while sure, it's unlikely anyone is going to be able to spend $20K in multiple transactions of $35 each, that's not the point.
it's not secure, and it's poor customer management to have a new facility like this which is a vast change from the normal facility, with no option to opt out (other than cancelling my credit cards, which might end up being the way to go...).
I am not comfortable with the concept but I'm sure I will probably come around - having said that though I still work with cash as I find that I can budget a whole lot better that way.
Peanutter - they sounded like London's Oyster Cards to me, so there are simlarities. Difference to the original case is that these are pay-and-go cards: they need loading up with £10 then you use them with card readers for public transport etc. If you lose them, they don't have your name on and they're lost, but there isn't loads of money to spend on them anyway. Sounds safer than using an actual debit card with this technology.
If you have a account with a visa debit payway card attached you can make sure there is only say only $100 in the account...then if your card does get lost or stolen there is only minimum funds in the account.
This account could be separate from your main account....you could minimise any loss that way.
Just got my new credit card which has a $15k limit with pay wave not happy! Going to call them tomorrow.
black rose - let us know if there's any way to opt out? or minimise risk?
TIA :D