The No Cry Sleep Solution

Forgive me if this post is all over the place... I'm exhausted. :(

I've recently decided to implement some ideas from 'The No Cry Sleep Solution' (Thanks Tellytubby :) ) and I'm struggling already! So far I'm recording what's happening during the night, in an effort to get a clear idea of where I might be able to improve. Anyway, the first night he woke 9 times. Last night he woke 11 times!!!!!!!!!!!! His longest stretch of sleep was only 1 3/4hrs. I'm so tired, I don't know what I'm doing to mess up his sleep so badly. He wasn't even this bad as a newborn, and seemed to be getting into his night-time sleeps over the last couple of months. I feel like recording what happens is really highlighting just how crap the nights have been... and it makes me feel worse seeing it on paper!

I was able to get up to a 5-6hr stretch most nights........ now (without changing anything I'm doing) I'm getting between 45min and just over an hour. Thing is, he doesn't WANT anything. His nappy is fine, he doesn't want or need a bottle..... he just cries and wants me to hold him in strange positions. He doesn't even seem to like it if I just bring him straight into my bed... he kicks and carries on and all I'm doing is cuddling him. I don't get it? My routine used to work. He used to love co-sleeping. Now he won't sleep on his own, OR with me. Co-sleeping was my last resort to try to avoid extreme sleep deprivation, and now that it's not working anymore I'm lost.

So last nights stats were as follows.
11 wakings
11 1/2hrs night sleep
4hrs daytime naps
15 1/2hrs total sleep.

He's getting a good amount of total sleep for his age........... but it's soooooo broken. I don't want to spend my days lying on the couch trying to nap when DS does. I'm getting nothing done!

Somebody, help! I need ideas.

How old is he Hun? (sorry on my phone so can't see sigs or tickers) is he due for a wonder week or developmental leap? I know at the 3 month wonder week Hamish's sleep went haywire and he had been sleeping through! I can look up the weeks and leaps for you if I know how many weeks he is. Hugs Hun I know how hard it can be. H is back to one wake up at night now.. So they do get past it in time xo

My little man us exactly the same! He wakes 7-10 times a night, we co-sleep which isn't ideal for me as I sleep in awkward positions when he's in bed which makes my back really sore!

I've also got the book and have tried some of the ideas but I guess it takes time!

Good luck, I feel your pain!

Jakabella - He was born the day before your little one. Did you change anything to get him back on track??

Jaycee - Oh the backpain is terrible isn't it?! The bigger he gets the harder it is to keep my back straight what with all the wrestling.

Hun my DD went through the exact same thing at 4 months old. All of a sudden she was waking hrly to 1.5hrly through the night. She did this every night for 6 weeks and then it stopped. She just decided one day to sleep through the night. Before that she was doing 3-4hrly wake ups, then it went to 1-1.5hrly for 6 weeks and now she sleeps through the night. We have the occassional crappy night but for the most she sleeps through. I didn't change anything either. It's nothing you've done. Just wanted to say there's hope and hopefully it's just a phase and he will be sleeping better in no time. I know how hard it is to function but for now do what you need to do, nap when he does to get through it because it will pass.
Sorry I can't offer any practical suggestions. Goodluck.

Soemtimes keeping track of iit like this really does make it worse
It could well be a phase associated with his age (let's hope it passes soon!) Actually, sleepign on the couch when you ahvea chance is probably the best thing you can do right now. I would suggest not trying to monitor his sleep or make chagnes till things settle down a bit more first.

I would say that it is probably due to a developmental leap... DD2 was born the same day as Jakabellas Little Man, and a lot of the babies in our group did the same thing, one bad nights i was up every 45-90 mins, this is the week that they are starting to come out of it, so hopefully we will be seeing some changes.

I have not done anything this time around and i agree with MadB, when i was writing down the times that i was up, it was worse... DD2 is awake because she needs me or a feed, i just stopped tracking it and adjusted MY sleep so that i wasn't so tired.... We had been meaning to get a TV replaced in our bedroom and we did that, so often i will go to bed at 8.30-9pm with DH and we will watch TV in there, that way i can fall asleep earlier and get some additional sleep...

THis is not forever, it sucks when they are worse that when newborn, but it will not stay forever... nap when you can and try and enjoy the cuddles as i find thats the only way its easier for me.

Good luck hun xx

i'm inclined to agree with MadB on tracking sleep. my DS was never a great sleeper (and still doesn't 'sleep through' at 2) & (with the benefit of hindisght) i can say that DS changed numerous times - just when i'd think we had some sort of pattern to follow, he'd change - right down to how i would actually be able to get him to sleep. i think around 4 months is notorious for wake-ups & alot of people talk about the 4 month sleep regression.

i remember at about 4 months just giving in & going along with the flow - DS would only sleep on me for naps in the afternoon so we would nap together on the couch. not ideal, but i felt a lot better once i stopped fighting it! by 6-7 months his naps were better & i wasn't napping with him anymore.

fwiw, i don't think you're doing or have done anything to mess up his sleep - he's just being a normal baby! chances are he'll continue to change - but i promise that they do seem to become more predictable!

:hug: it is tough when they're waking frequently....so make sure you're getting some down time & 'me' time when you can to recharge your batteries.

That's the thing though. I feel like if I keep putting off making some changes to our daily routine/ night rituals then it'll never get better. Or is that just my tired lady fog confusing me? It doesn't help that DP is applying more and more pressure for me to get the housework in order. I know his comments come from his ignorance. He thinks I should just put DS down, run around crazily trying to do chores while he screams, then pick up where I left off with him. He ignores the fact that if I let DS cry for more than a few mins he gets totally worked up, and is impossible to settle. He also doesn't factor in sleep deprivation and stress.

I think I'd stress less about doing nothing but napping and cuddling all day if DP was more understanding. When he gets home and the place is a mess, DP gets stuck into me about it sometimes, making me feel totally useless. Also, he criticizes my techniques but has none to offer other than leaving him to CIO. That strategy has always made things worse for us.

It doesn't help that it's been 3 days since DP has helped by taking over one of the evening feeds, or doing bedtime. He only wants to do the fun stuff, like playing and getting DS riled up. Then he's handed back to me to get him to sleep after DP's finished hyping him up. Arrrrgh!!! I ask him to follow my lead but he just ignores and does what he wants.

He's always too tired to help, so whycan't I be too tired to cook or clean? Mother doesn't translate to slave. Or does it? Ok, vent over.

does your DS like a sling or carrier? i never used one with DS but would def plan to for #2. that might free up your hands to get some things done but keep your DS happy too? not sure if it's a practical solution for you.

if you needed to, could you get things done while your DS was in a bouncer/rocker/having some floor time?

:hug: sorry, it's a quick one - nap time is over here!

:

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That's the thing though. I feel like if I keep putting off making some changes to our daily routine/ night rituals then it'll never get better. Or is that just my tired lady fog confusing me? It doesn't help that DP is applying more and more pressure for me to get the housework in order. I know his comments come from his ignorance. He thinks I should just put DS down, run around crazily trying to do chores while he screams, then pick up where I left off with him. He ignores the fact that if I let DS cry for more than a few mins he gets totally worked up, and is impossible to settle. He also doesn't factor in sleep deprivation and stress.

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I found if i tried to changed things, i became more stressed when it didnt work or when the crying continued...
The housework thing, i hear you on, 2nd time around DH gets it, but still there are days where the eyebrows are raised.

Do you have a sling? people use to say this to me all the time and i didnt try it properly with DD1 and i wish i did, you move differently but folding washing and making beds and picking p bits and vacuuming can be done really easily when baby wearing.
I clean the kitchen with DD2 in the bumbo on the bench so she can see me and she has some things to touch and feel to keep her interested and i talk to her about what i am doing.
I clean the girls bedrooms with her on the bed and she watches the fan go round. Mopping i do when she sleeps (so sometimes i have to miss it for a day or two)

No mother doesnt translate to slave :hug: DH has to do stuff when he comes in... i use to huff very loudly about doing things when he was watching TV and then would just start telling him things that he could do to help so we could sit together - 'you know, if YOu do the dishes when i am bathing the girls, we can BOTH sit down together when they are in bed' it took a while, but slowly got through :)

ETA Snap Sloane!

Ah, sounds like you have daddy issues as well as baby ones :hug:
If he wants housework done so badly, he'd better start doing it, hey? Has he spent much time alone with your baby, actually trying to cope with it? If my DH comes home to a clean house he congratulates me in wonder! He was a SAHD for a while with DS so understands very well how little you can get done with a demanding baby.
Is there a father role model you know amongst family or friends who could talk to him perhaps?

My DD2 STILL does this occasionally, when she's teething, in pain or just before she gets sick, she wakes a lot more if she gets cold too. Granted she doesn't sleep through the night, but mostly she only wakes once. Have you tried panadol? Could bub bet cutting teeth?

DH - Can you strike a deal with him that if he takes bub for an hour (or 2 if you need to cook as well) when he first gets home you will catch up on the housework then? If he thinks you're just relaxing enjoying the baby all day and not doing anything then he shouldn't have a problem taking a shift if that's all he's doing when he gets home. DH and I made that deal when either of us would work and it was one of those days. If I pulled a shift working and he pulled a shift child-minding, then when I came home I'd just child-mind while he worked (the daily house chores) and vice versa, as we both worked part-time and juggled until recently.

He used to settle in the sling but now he just struggles and fusses making it pointless trying to do chores. He won't do floor time or the bouncer for more than 20 mins first thing in the morning. I use that time to get dressed etc. For the rest of the day, if he isn't on me being rocked to sleep or on the floor with me right in front of him, he just screams. At the most, all I can accomplish is washing his bottles before he gets tired of watching me cleaning and cracks it.

I hope this phase passes quickly. For both DP and DS.

OK so I just consulted my trusty Wonder Weeks book and there is a fussy perios from 15-19 weeks with a "stormy period" around week 17 .... remembering that some kids fo earlier and others later it sounds to me like he is smack bang in the middle of a development leap.

No offense to anyone who found the "No cry sleep solution" book a miracle worker but personally I found the documenting sleep made the problem worse for me to deal with ... I threw mine into the fire place (along with a couple of other books along the same lines) and just rode these phases out. They all pass eventually.

:hug: its a very trying and tiring time but if your finding yourself MORE frazzled "because the book says XYZ....." throw the book out because there is NOT a book in the whole wide world written about YOUR baby.

If you find it helps ....... read my information and throw it out the window :rofl:

Nae x

In my experience, when my kids are like this there's a reason for it. So if you can, by chance, discover this underlying reason and fix it, then good, but most of the time you can't even figure out what it is till after the fact, let alone fix it. So you have to ride it out.
NCSS can work if your baby's issues are habitual, rather than the result of some underlying problem. It certainly won't solve separation anxiety, development 'issues', teething, illness, etc, etc :D Pantley says as much in the book - if there's other stuff going on, you just have to wait. It still may not work for you anyway of course.

But in general I definitely agree with Nae - if a book gives you grief, give it grief back. Maybe doorstop is kinder than kindling, but anyway ;)

I just wanted to give you a hug and let you know that you're definitely not alone!! DD3 is like this, will only sleep on me during the day, and we hold her of a night time as well PLUS she co-sleeps with us - just so she actually gets some sleep!! She was born on the same day as SJ's girl and Jakabella's boy - so she's a day younger than your little dude.

It is hard, and stressful and some days I think I'm going to go insane!!! Then I heave a big sigh, give in and just sit on my fat butt on the couch and try to ignore the mess. And believe me, with 3 other kids running around - its a LOT of mess!! LOL

I think your DH should help out a little more and stop complaining. My DH doesn't complain at all, he just walks in and sees the mess and he knows its been a rough day for me. he doesn't judge, he just starts cleaning the loungeroom while I finish cooking dinner. Then he bathes ALL the kids while I clean up the kitchen after dinner. Then he dresses DD3 while I do some washing or cleaning up the stuff on the floor.

You need him to start pitching in to help you instead of just biatching about the mess. I mean, if he's wasting all this energy having a whinge about it, he would probably be better say ... washing a dish or two!! LOL

:hug: We all get it - we really do.

I wrote a massive response and lost it. I'm resisting the urge to yell out some rather X rated swearwords here. Young ears, and all.

Anyway now DS is screaming inconsoleably because I had to go to the toilet and let him cry. Now he's screaming despite being held. And holding his breath. And choking on his saliva. And scratching me.

:( I hate this. I'm so not coping.

Is there a friend or a neighbour you can call now to come and give you a break even for only 1/2 hour? :hug:

Is your child nurse nearby? Could go and have a chat or give her a call? This time of year he could even be unwell (mine have both been shockign for the past 6 weeks)

Perhaps when your partner gets home, walk out the door and leave him with everything to cope with.

Honestly, he sounds like a bigger problem than your little one.

I agree with Mad B. Try chatting with your maternal child nurse. Or, if you are really worried that something is not right, see a pediatrician.

nobody I can call, no. I managed to settle him to sleep again, but not for long I'm sure. Ugghh. It's just one of those days. Or weeks. Or months. Whatever :rolleyes: I guess I'm ok. I haven't exploded or burst into flames yet so I'll just have to ride this one out. There's always something upsetting my little man tho. We're always weathering some kind of storm it seems. My survival mode never switches off these days. Every time he gets better something new happens and knocks him back down and into screamy mode. :( Is it like this for everyone?

Coffee. STAT.

:hug:

Seriously been there too with the Velcro wakeful baby, and it's very hard.

My dd liked a back carry while I did housework at that age...could that help? Otherwise will he watch tv (I know, I know, but you're desperate here). Can you hire a baby swing or vibrating rocker?.

At this point you need to ride out this phase. Your baby can't be 'fixed' and is doing exactly what he needs to do.

You need to survive this the best you can. Housework can be done by anyone. Your ds only as one mummy.

What I have changed is putting him to bed during the day after 1.5 hrs of awake time without fail. He always goes off to sleep. He has a mobile over his cot and he watched that and drifts off. If I see him showing tiered signs then for him he is over tired. That's working well for us at the moment. But who knows what the future holds! Xo

Forshelb, with my son there was almost always 'something' for the first 18 months or so. He had little windows of settled sleep every now and then, but otherwise... :hug:
Cut yourself some slack and make sure your husband knows he needs to too.

n2l - It's tempting, but I don't think that'd solve anything...... just add fuel to the fire.

Arcadia - I'll have to learn how to do the back carrying thing..... I haven't tried it yet. It seems awkward? He loves the tv first thing in the mornings, but once he's over it, that's it!

jakabella - Interesting. I might try something like that.

Mad B - Ugh... the light at the end of the tunnel is looking more like a pin***** in a black canvas way off in the distance.

After DP came home and got stuck into a few too many beers, then went to bed early leaving me with baby duties AGAIN, I had a total meltdown. This morning when I got up, I was so tired and beside myself thinking about the day ahead that I just lost it. I put DS down on the loungeroom floor, and went frigging bananas. I cried, I sobbed, I just had to let it all out. FINALLY I think DP might get how hard this is on me. He swears when he gets home tonight he's on duty and I can have a sleep. He says he'll take DS out of the house and visit a friend for a while so I can have some silence. Hm. We'll see if that one comes true, he's broken promises like this before. So I'm not counting on it at all.

Kinda bothers me that I have to have a total freakout to get DP to take notice and get with the program. This is usually the trend. I soldier on and on until I just can't bear the burden on my own anymore, then I crumble and fall apart, and DP steps in and does his part. Then it's back to me for several more weeks of punishment.

I don't think he even realises this is what's going on. I think we need to sit down and discuss each of our responsibilities and come up with some sort of a plan. AND STICK TO IT THIS TIME.

Thanks everyone for the support and ideas... it helps just to know you ladies are all here when I feel like I'm losing it.

:hug: i never got the chance to say yesterday that i thought your DH was being delusional if he thought you would have time to get the house spotless with a 4 month old & esp a velcro baby. it's tough, but it really isn't forever - for us it was when DS could walk that he suddenly seemed more independent. he's still a bit velcro but things can actually get done these days!

if the housework slides for a couple of months, tough. unless he wants to do it!!

i hope he sticks to his offer of taking DS out & letting you get a chance to rest or just even watch some tv/read a book. i like your plan of sitting down & really sorting out responsibilities & a plan. one of my favourite sayings is - we're meant to be on the same side, not working against each other!

:hug:

Hpe that works out for you tonight

Screw taking him out of the house! What a load of crap. He should stay home and get some stuff DONE.

You need to give yourself an RDO. Give him advanced warning. Let's say you do it next Saturday, or some other day when you have no commitments. You do whatever you want (sleep, knit, read, bake something fun, whatever) He looks after the baby. And the house. Every time he goes to leave the baby with you, you say "Sorry, I'm on my day off" and politely refuse. You do not feed, settle to sleep, calm, anything. It's your day off. Tell him a week before, and tell him you just want the one day off - it will sound like just a small favour. If you want, tell him he can do whatever he wants the next day. It will give him a good appreciation of how your day actually rolls. And if the house is a mess, you get your chance to go off your tree at him just like he does to you.

I had great success with the NCSS. I skipped the recording bit - I knew that we were having crappy nights, so I really just noted what time her earliest waking was, and assumed it was between 1 and 2 hourly from there. I also noticed when it got better, without writing anything down.

That 17-18-19 week stormy period was ROUGH here. Sleeping was atrocious, and even the sling didn't make things better (although the hammock was pretty good) It was about that time that we started sticking to routines and developing firm rituals aroound sleep - nothing prescribed by anyone, just noting the patterns she was naturally falling into. As she emerged from that Wonder Week episode, we took off travelling, and all routine was thrown out the window. We just let her grab whatever sleep she could, whether we fed her off to sleep on the floor of the tent, or did laps in the pram, or in the carrier or the capsule. Being outside all the time and in new surroundings, she became exhausted and her night sleeps improved a lot.

So, ummm, go camping? :lol:

I dunno if that's helpful. (ETA: Fully sure it's not. Sorry!) But I promise that this Wonder Week will pass, so the screaming days will settle down. Do what you can to support him, know that it won't be like this forever, and enjoy what you can.

The thing you said about him wanting to be held in a weird position struck a chord with me - as my DD was like this too and was a shockingly bad sleeper - Is his reflux now under control? because reflux (whether its silent or spewy) can cause all of what you are describing. My DD is still on losec at 22 months for silent reflux and I have always found every routine, book, info I read just made me more stressed as they never worked for me DD. The only times we have been able to get more sleep and a bit of a routine was when she was on the right medication and the right dosage.
My heart just goes out to you, because reading your posts is like a mirror image to how I felt not too long ago.

lol, camping. Yeah an RDO would be nice! I used to have Saturday nights 'off' and get a full nights sleep. That stopped because DP would pull an allnighter instead of getting DS to sleep. I get that it's hard because he's used to sleeping in bed with mummy. So it evolved into- I'll cuddle him all night, and DP gets up to feed, then returns him to me to sleep. Then it changed again, and suddenly DP 'couldn't' even do the feed. If he does get up to him, I can hear DP muttering and swearing, crashing and bashing around in the kitchen making as much noise as he can. This wakes DS up completely, and me. Then DP complains and says I should get up and go to work for him one day of the week (in return for him doing my job for one night). I know he finds it hard, but OMG.

He promised me he'd give me sat and sun to sleep in a few weeks ago, taking DS out for Daddy Son breakfast. That hasn't happened. Now he's called me and said he'll be home late. He doesn't have a choice, so I'm not mad, just disappointed. So there goes tonights break. And I was SO looking forward to bleaching the shower, lol. DP says he'll still look after DS tonight but I'm 90% sure it'll just be until midnight or so, then I'm back on duty all night long.

I guess this has turned into a huge whinging vent. I'm just so sad that DP could go from superdad to this so fast. It's like the novelty wore off. In my family, the mothers needs come last.

i was thinking something along the lines of reflux or gas or colic due to the fact that he cant seem to find a comfy position. maybe a cold coming on, maybe teething already? maybe you could take him to a GP just for a check up and a chat also. i found with my DD1 she hated the cot, so we co-slept and i do admit that always worked but i also tried sleeping her on a mattress on the floor in a safe area during the day and at night when i tried to lessen the co-sleeping as she grew bigger. apart from that you NEED and RDO! having a few hours/ half a day/ evening off does wonders and it will get your partner to understand what is actually involved in looking after a baby and what you do ALL day every day.

in regards to the book.. we used it with DD1 and it gradually improved her sleeping over time but it didnt solve it straight away.

He still isn't home. And the oven just blew up when I tried to cook dinner. And he says he's quitting his job tonight. Just like that. :o I have a headache.

OMG.

Oh hun, how did your night turn out? Really hope you got some rest!

WHAT?? I mean...what??? How's things hun? (WHAT?)

Yeah, he tends to say a lot of random ....... stuff when he's having a bad day. Instead of quitting, he had a big complain about some stuff and is going to talk to his boss about all the forced overtime. I agree his job is ridiculous, but it's our bread and butter. So when he asked me what I thought.. (finally) I told him if he wants to quit, go ahead- but to make sure he has something else lined up for DS's sake. It's like he woke up to himself when I said that.

I tell ya... what a week. My weekend was slightly better but I didn't get much resting done. I did however manage to bleach the shower last night (LOL) and I got to sleep in this morning after handing DS over at 7am and going back to bed. I decided I wasn't going to ask, I NEEDED to sleep, and wasn't giving DP the opportunity to complain about it. I couldn't hear him if he did anyway, I was sleeping..... :rofl:

This is what earplugs were invented for :)

Good to hear you got a sleep in :hug:

Oh wow.... I'm reliving a lot of things right now... except that my DH was on board a lot more. My DD1 for the first 6 months woke many many times over night. We went to sleep school at one point because I was going insane. What sleep school taught me was that she didn't fit the "routines" that was designed to help mums understand their babies sleep. My DD hated co-sleeping, she hated being put down as well, she only slept when I was walking with her or rocking her or physically moving with her for longer than 40 minutes until she was 6 months. At sleep school we discovered that she was like this, it wasn't missing her cues, or doing something wrong, it was the way she was made. She did have reflux, silent reflux. Does your bubs swallow a lot while screaming? gag sometimes? DD1 is allergic to cows milk proteins and it wasn't until she actually went off cows milk (at 3 years old!!) that she started sleeping through more. She was still waking up twice at night at 3 years old. My baby was sleeping more than she was. Slings helped tremendously, I would put her in the sling and sit in the rocking chair and dose....

However, I had a VERY understanding husband as well. He hired a housekeeper for the first year. He was amazing, every night when he came home he would take her for a walk and let me have 30 minutes to myself. Without the screaming.

DD1 has other issues as well as her food allergies, but with a baby its hard to know what is going on with them.

:hug: Its not fair, its horrible going through it....

Christy - Yes, he does swallow a lot and gag when he's screaming his head off. I figured it was the silent reflux as well. He's on medication for it, but I'm wondering when they're supposed to up the dose?? He's at least a full kilo heavier than he was when it was first prescribed, so surely he needs a higher dose now? I might need to speak to my GP about that. I know I'm not missing the tired signs either. As soon as he yawns once, or rubs his eyes, I lie him down and try to rock him to sleep. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. But he ALWAYS wakes when I try to put him in his bed. Always. So I've resorted to holding him for his 2hr naps during the day. IF he'll even have one. Sadly, I think it's just the way he was made too. DP keeps suggesting a sleep school but I feel like I've tried all the routines already. What are they going to teach me except to let him CIO? I can't do that.... he gets too screamy to be left for more than a few minutes. He'll bloody choke himself to death.

DP says he understands, and he says I'm amazing for doing what I'm doing (sometimes, ha) but then his actions don't match that. He'll carry on like a single dude when the mood strikes him........ and he doesn't get that I can NEVER walk away from my responsibility, but it's ok for him to? It's tiring.

Just yesterday he dragged us all out of the house (ok I wanted to go) all day long to visit a friend. He knew I hadn't had breakfast yet, and when I complained I was hungry and that we needed to go as DS only had one nappy left in his bag, he seemed annoyed. I pointed out that it's not ok to drag me here and there, and not give me an opportunity to eat something! I spent hours holding DS while he fiddled around with a stereo system trying to get it working. It was no fun for me, stuck holding a crying baby all day while he enjoyed himself. It was 4pm when we got home and I still hadn't eaten. I finally got something at about 7pm. Just because HE can go all day without eating, he seems to forget that I'm already exhausted, and if I'm not getting energy from sleep, then I need food all the more for fuel. I made sure he's well and truly aware of the fact that I'm a person who needs to frigging eat. I'm not just a baby making, baby cuddling machine.

It's a bit ridiculous that I need to remind him I need to eat. Over it!