[ADVICE] Can they make us pay this???

We've been renting this house for 2 years. Yesterday we received a water bill. The agent wants us to fwd payment to them, as the bill has been paid in full. I have no proof of this. The billing period was Nov 10 to June 11.

We've never been asked to pay for water usage in this house, or any for that matter. Our lease does not include any agreement that we will pay it. Our lease was renewed again in May. No mention of any changes, all appears to be the same. We weren't given any kind of notice that the landlord wished to change the agreement. No letter, ph call, zip.

I'm waiting for the agent to call me back. Can they make us pay this?! We weren't informed at all, and they want payment in 14 days. The agent totally downplayed my concern, and implied it wasn't much money and to just hand it over. I don't think this is right! Surely I have to sign an agreement before they can change the rules.

Help!

we only ever paid electricity - but we knew we had to pay that

isnt there a renters tribunal you can call? if youve never paid one before id be questioning it >:|

Did you re-read the contract when you re-signed the lease? Perhaps they changed some of the conditions?

:dunno:

In our case the owner pays for the provision of services (sewage etc) and we pay for the water we actually use. But we are billed separately, I only ever get the usage bill direct from the provider.

But, I do think that it is odd that they demand that you pay a bill that isn't addressed to you or in your name. If you are responsible for paying water, the agent should have set it up with the provider so that you are billed directly.

Personally I would call Consumer Affairs (or the relevant body in your state) before doing anything. If you're unsure who to contact just google renters rights in your state and you should be able to find out from there.

GL

Water usage used to be payable on your rates, but now its a separate bill, and I would guess that is why they are forwarding it to you.

I'd offer to pay half since they didn't tell you about it, and would probably be expected to pay the next ones :)

If it's not on your lease you're not liable to pay it!

i'd contact the rental tenancies board in your state and ask them. even if you are required to pay for it, there might be a time-frame in which any changes of this nature have to be enacted. and :crossfingers: that 14 days is too short a notice of those changes.

goodluck xx

FWIW with our rentals in QLD we never paid water. in the ACT and VIC we only ever paid usage (not services, sewage etc). remember that the real estate agent is only interested in the relationship with the landlord, they will push the landlords interests well before your own. the Rental board is the best number to call and query.

In the last place we rented we apparently had to pay the water bill at the end of our lease when we were moving out. The night before hand over of keys we were looking through the lease and discovered that on the last page it said we were to pay the water bill. We freaked out cause we had obviously overlooked this and we had no idea how much it would be.
When I was handing in the keys I mentioned it to the receptionist and she checked for me. She said normally we would have to pay and it would be taken out of our bond !! But since we had done alot of work for the land lords they were waiving the bill :D (3 years worth of water bill)

We were lucky in this case but we could easily have been caught out and left with next to no bond (I dont know how much the bills added up to)

Good luck getting it sorted !

How is the water metered at the property? Is it a shared meter? For example we used to live in a unit of 8 & we all shared a meter. As you can not accurately know who has used what water the landlord has to pay all charges. The water company take a reading and splits the bill by how many properties are serviced by that meter. If it is a one on one meter than normally the landlord pays, sewage, parks etc and the tenants pay the water usage. It would be like any other service ie Elec, Gas as it is what the tenant has consumed. I do remember when we sold our unit & put a lease on for 6 mths as the house we purchased had a tenant the new owner was a bit shocked at the cost of the water bill and asked us how we wanted to pay. I explained to them that it wasn't up to us to pay. It also states on the bill that it cannot be passed on to tenants. In that 6 months we paid annuals, sewage etc for our new house & the tenant paid for water consumed by them.

Sorry just saw you are on the Gold Coast so it maybe different.

We used to pay water usage but not rates. When I was a landlord I paid water rates not usage.


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On our lease the first page of the condition report had a thing about water, I had to record the water meter reading as I entered the property for the first time. It stated that we were responsable for the entire water bill. BUT where a property was NOT fitted with a water saving toilet or shower heads then we they can not charge us.

I thought this meant they can not charge us AT ALL. But then we got a bill. RE said its the excess. I don't mind paying it seems there is 7 of us! But Im sure that is not how it reads on the lease but I haven't been bothered to get it out & double check. But the RE explained that in the event that water saving things are not fitted then we are only responsible for the excess. I think thats fair enough.

But if you have your lease in front of you & there is nothing in reference to the water bill then I don't think they can make you pay it. They can not just assume you knew about it after 2 years of nothing.

In SA, owners/landlords pay up to a certain amount of supply and usage (first 136 kilo litres of the year) and then above and beyond that the tenant must pay any amounts above. This is when there is no other agreement in place, as set out by the Residential Tenancies Act. Sewerage charges are always the responsibility of the owner/landlord in SA.

When there is an agreement in place, landlords MUST provide notice as bills become due.

Contact the rental tribunal for your state (in SA its the Office of Consumer and Business Affairs) to find out what's in place for QLD. I think it's the Residential Tenancies Authority (a qld.gov website). I googled it and it has a FAQ section, stating new laws, but they must be part of your rental agreement from what I can tell.

Hope this helps. If you want more info PM me.

I'll try to answer everything without missing anyones questions, but DS is crying so I have to be super fast!

The property is a house, so the meter isn't shared with any other properties. We don't have water saving fittings as far as I know. I can't find a full copy of my entire lease document....... but I do have the renewal notice. There was a box ticked saying 'rent remains unchanged' and there was no mention of any water bills. I also did not receive any separate letter advising me of the change.

Am I mistaken though, in thinking that changes can only be made at the beginning of a new lease???? In which case, they should have told me about this in May? I have had a change-over in property manager though.... the lady who used to take care of us no longer works there, and I have some random new woman who isn't familiar with us at all.

I might just add that yes, she DID take the landlords side, and started trying to get me to have sympathy for them, saying it's not fair for them to pay our water bill. Ok, fair enough, but he's been doing it all this time, why the sudden change? I told her my only issue is with not being told in advance, and the expectation for us to pay almost immediately.

She's going to look through our full document today and get back to me. As far as I'm concerned, if there's no mention of us paying for water, they can shove this bill up their derierres. Fair enough if they want to change the deal, but they need to submit that to us IN WRITING, and wait for my agreement. When that happens, and ONLY when that happens, I'll be responsible for any water usage charges in future.

Also, I won't be paying any bills that aren't in my name, or addressed to me. I haven't even seen the entire invoice. They've sent me the back half of it and it says clearly at the top 'THIS IS NOT AN INVOICE'.

I'm going to go and have a little sook...... I'm really getting tired of things like this happening to us. We can never get ahead financially because every cent we save is ALWAYS eaten up by things like this. I wouldn't feel half as bad if this was due to my own stupidity or poor planning. But when people start springing stuff like this on you, it's sucky. Come on universe, I've had a really hard year! Give me a break and stop throwing stupid little problems like this my way. I've got bigger fish to fry!

I forgot -

PZ - Yes I re-read the contract before I signed it. :rolleyes: I actually decided against returning it to the agent as we weren't sure when or if we'd like to move out this year. So technically I'm not bound by a current lease, and can leave at any time as long as we give 2 weeks notice.

Which is what makes this more outrageous. According to them, I haven't agreed to ANYTHING and they're still putting their hands out for money, with absolutely no notice of the change.

Read your full lease, it will be in there.
In WA at least it is standard to pay all water usage, landlord pays rates.

We pay for water usage only, the owner pays the rest of the bill. The bill we receive from the agent in the owners name and then the agent states how much we owe (ie the water usage).

:hug: hun, personally i would be sitting down and writing them an e-mail mentioning the following things:
1. You have NEVER been requested to pay a water bill previously
2. You have nothing in WRITING stating that you are supposed to be paying water bills.

Just make it simple, dot points and ask that they please provide in writing anything that states you MUST pay the bill and if so when it was forwarded to you and if you signed it that you would like a copy.
If they say they DON'T have documentation that states you WILL or WILL NOT pay water ask why you haven't previously and what has changed now and that your happy to come to some agreement but that you would like it in writing.

FWIW we have ALWAYS had to pay for our water usage, landlord paid the rates side of things but we paid usage, is that not that case with all rentals???

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:hug: hun, personally i would be sitting down and writing them an e-mail mentioning the following things:
1. You have NEVER been requested to pay a water bill previously
2. You have nothing in WRITING stating that you are supposed to be paying water bills.

Just make it simple, dot points and ask that they please provide in writing anything that states you MUST pay the bill and if so when it was forwarded to you and if you signed it that you would like a copy.
If they say they DON'T have documentation that states you WILL or WILL NOT pay water ask why you haven't previously and what has changed now and that your happy to come to some agreement but that you would like it in writing.

FWIW we have ALWAYS had to pay for our water usage, landlord paid the rates side of things but we paid usage, is that not that case with all rentals???

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add to this... to forawrd copys of what you signed with this information. that way they can't just whip up something to suit.

We started renting for the first time in years in March & were advised by the agent that it's all different now & we are to pay all water usage not just excess as we did once upon a time several years ago. We got our first bill just a week ago & it's much like yours from the agent not the water company. However it does state what for, how much, tax invoice no. usual pymt days etc so it is still a bill. We obvioulsy have no probs paying as we were made aware.

I'm thinking someone has told the owners about recent changes & they want to go ahead with you guys paying water usage but obviously it's been dealt with the wrong way - there should have been an agreement or written notice to notify you of any changes.

Call the RTA if you need advice about your own situation.

This might help a bit in the meantime ... http://www.rta.qld.gov.au/zone_files...eets/water.pdf

Don't agree to anything until you have spoken to the RTA.

Do you know if your property meets the water efficiency standards? If there aren't water saving devices used on the taps in your house then they can't make you pay.

This is also from the RTA:

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Do nothing so the agreement becomes periodic

If you do not extend or sign a new a fixed term agreement, a periodic agreement automatically comes into place. The periodic agreement continues under the same terms that applied to the fixed term agreement except for the end date.

At any time, the tenant and lessor/agent can agree to end the periodic agreement and begin a new fixed term agreement. For more information, see the general tenancy agreements or moveable dwelling tenancy agreements fact sheet.

Under a periodic agreement, rent may be increased by the lessor/agent giving the tenant two months notice in writing of the increase. However, rent can not be increased unless there has been at least six months since the current amount of rent became payable by the tenant.

Changes to the terms of agreements

Tenants are able to negotiate the terms of the proposed new agreement before they sign it. Tenants can dispute significant changes between agreements for the same property with the lessor/ agent, such as excessive rent increases or whether pets are allowed, after they have signed the new agreement. If dispute resolution is unsuccessful, an application to the Tribunal can be made within 30 days after signing the new agreement, to have the significant change reviewed.

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This basically means that since you haven't signed the new lease, you are on a periodic lease (basically it means that you can leave at any time with two weeks notice or they can ask you to leave at any time but have to give you 60 days notice). The terms and conditions are still the same though as it would be on your fixed term agreement so if the fixed term agreement was to include you paying for water, it would be applicable from the start date of that fixed term agreement that you didn't sign. I don't think they can make you back pay it.

The other thing with being on a periodic agreement is that they can increase your rent at any time with two months notice. They are only allowed one rent increase every six months. If you were on a fixed term agreement, they would still have to give you two months notice, but would need to wait until the end of the lease period to enforce it. I would imagine that there are also notice periods for changes to the contract, like you having to pay water, but you are probably best to check with the RTA to find out how much notice they have to give you.

I would say that if the new contract started in May, unless there is a metre reading taken from May, they can't make you pay even part of the water bill.

Call the RTA. They are really helpful.

My agent is looking at our full lease and will get back to me. We've never paid for water usage in the entire 8yrs I've been independant. That's why this bill was such a shock.

I'm willing to come to a new agreement for any future usage, but since we were given no notice, I won't be paying this one. If they wish to draw up an agreement, I will sign. But until I have this in writing, they haven't got a hope in hell.

I'm just really annoyed they would spring this on us. Why they didn't tell me in NOV last year (start of billing period) is beyond me. Unless they got a shock when they opened their bill, and just decided to have us pay it. All the same, they can't just change the rules without letting me know.

Annoying!

I think there are some Real Estate Agents who play on the ignorance of tenants who don't understand the law. They are not all like this, but there are some. I find that telling them that I will contact the RTA and get back to them has usually worked well in the past. I have had a couple back right off and tell me not to get my knickers in a knot (I wasn't upset at all, simply stating what I was going to do but I suspect they had a reason to be defensive).

I don't see how they can make you pay it. Also, it is worth finding out if your house is fitted with water saving devices because if it isn't, they can't make you sign a new contract making you responsible for your water usage either. If the water saving devices are fitted, it should greatly reduce the cost of the water bill meaning there is less to pay. It is not your fault if the people that own the house haven't put water saving devices in and the legislation is designed to encourage them to do it.

No water saving devices are fitted. Our insulation was removed in January, causing our electricity to double in cost, so I really don't want to take on another utility. I might actually request insulation be redone.

I'm yet to hear back from the agent,so I hope it means she's made a mistake.

I know here is VIC that if the property is separately metred then the landlord pays the sewerage etc and the tenant pays the usage. But in saying that the tenant receives a bill from the Water Company. We are about to get tenants into our apartment and we have been told by the water company that they will bill us for our part and the tenant for their part.

Seems very unfair to have a bill sprung on you out of the blue.

Janie xxx

Why did they take your insulation out? If your bill has doubled I'd definitely request it be redone!

It was apparently poorly installed, so the landlord decided it should come out. We agreed, not realising the massive effect it'd have. I hope he's kind enough to have it put back in.

Hopefully they put it back In for you. Some landlords however won't do it for someone who is 'out of contract' though IYKWIM, hopefully they don't use that against you.


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- Sent from my iPhone, more than likely while I should be doing something else!

Landlords in ACT, NSW and (now) QLD are all entitled to pass on the cost of the water usage to the tenant. (These changes to the tenancy legislation is pretty recent in QLD I believe).

I know that we get the water and sewage rates (with the water usage on it as well) for our investment property and we pay it in full and then are entitled to collect from the tenant reimbursement for the water usage portion of it.


If you are unsure of your rights as a tenant, get in touch with your local tenants advocacy service (it is free) and ask them - they will be able to tell you specifics in relation to where you live exactly what the landlord must do in order to claim back water usage.

As a WA landlord, over the last 2 and a bit years we've rented out our house, we have paid rates, and water usage was the responsibility of the tenants. We have a bore so our gardens don't increase the water usage, but if it did, we would offer to pay a portion of usage, but I don't think a landlord should be responsible for you having a shower or washing your dishes iykwim.

Also, because the landlord has to pay water rates, there isn't a separate water bill for usage in another name, it's just not possible.

I think they should have definitely let you know in writing, or brought it up somewhere. Put as much of what you talk about with agents etc in writing too... We rent out our place out privately, so everything is between me and the tenant.... Once an agent comes in, things can get a bit twisted, so put things in an email or letter when you can. :)


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That must have been a shock for you :hug: Unfortunately I think you will find that in Qld tenants are required to pay water usage, but owners may choose to just pay it (and I think many do), or in the case of shared meters then the tenants don't have to pay. If you have a look in the RTA booklet, or on the RTA website, or ring the RTA, they can confirm whether that is correct. So probably you have been lucky so far not to have to pay and I think you will have to start paying now, unless the owner tells the agent not to worry. Do you think the owner has asked for the payment, or is this new agent just being really over-efficient and has assumed that she should ask you to pay because that's what was done where she used to work? I wonder if the owner wants you to pay now that you are not on a fixed-term lease?

Yep, everyone pays for water now. I would check your lease, they probably slipped it in there last time. Actually I would sign a lease!!

In my region of council, they have recently changed how they charge for water rates - much, much more expensive than previously. Most people who own rentals started charging their tenants for any excess use as it is now so costly. Perhaps that's what's happened in your area too.
However, they surely wouldn't be allowed to start charging without first advising/changing the lease I would've thought.

There was nothing new on the last lease we were sent. No changes.

I'm not asking whether or not I should be responsible for our water usage. I get that we are. And that we've been lucky so far to not have to pay it. My issue is that they didn't give us any kind of warning, just sprung a bill on us. A bill which they've had since June.

I did hear the laws have changed in QLD and that the landlords can pass on usage costs to the tenant, but they don't have the right to do this without informing me first. As per our original agreement, I am not expected to pay this utility. Even though I'm not on a fixed lease, I still have a periodic agreement which operates under the same rules as our original lease. It's like they heard they can do this, and just decided to slog us with the bill out of the blue. I think that's really rude. If they expect us to pay for water usage, I will as of today. Not from November last year!

They can give me the adequate notice, and I'll comply. What I won't do, however.... is pay it just because they sent it to me, without some kind of explanation.

I still haven't heard anything back from the agent so she's either a) really busy b) not interested c) crap at her job.

im not sure abt QLD, but they would have to give you the proper notice of any intent of change to you're lease, if its not already stated.

if you're water meter is only to you're property you as the tenant have to pay the water usage/ landlord pays the sewage costs. thats just the law, it doesnt have to be in you're lease. so you would have to pay for the useage you have used, even past.

maybe give you're water supplier a call aswell.

if you're property manager is anything like mine, lazy lol

I would assume ANY changes have to be WRITTEN and sent to the tenants for them to sign. My friend is a property manager and everything has to be written and signed before any changes to anything are made. But I am in Melbourne.....

I just found this on the RTA website:

Lessors (landlords) are allowed to pass on the full water consumption costs to tenants provided all the minimum criteria have been met.

What are the minimum criteria for water charging?
Lessors will be able to pass on the full water consumption costs to tenants if:

the rental premises are individually metered (or water is delivered by vehicle), and
the rental premises are water efficient, and
the tenancy agreement states the tenant must pay for water consumption.


So I guess I'm in the clear. The agent said the landlord sent her the bill to have it chased up. I don't know if this is true or not, because honestly.......... he should know the laws. And he should know what our original agreement says. I thought he was a decent guy, but now I'm wondering. I feel like someone, either agent or landlord is trying to take advantage, and hoping I'll just pay it without questioning.

It's upsetting when people try to take advantage of you. And even worse when you don't know who's behind it all!

i live in melb too and i am qlfd as a property manager am also a tenant, it does not have to be in writting as it is law that the tenant has to pay for the water usage.

unless stated in a lease that the landlord will pay for the water, then the tenant pays.

but it also states on the RTA website

If the premises are individually metered but not water efficient, and the agreement states the tenant must pay for water, the lessor must pay for a reasonable amount of water.

The lessor and the tenant should agree upon what is a reasonable amount at the start of the tenancy and include the amount as a special term in the tenancy agreement.

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i live in melb too and i am qlfd as a property manager am also a tenant, it does not have to be in writting as it is law that the tenant has to pay for the water usage.

unless stated in a lease that the landlord will pay for the water, then the tenant pays.

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I was actually thinking when I read this thread that I have never heard of not paying water bills. I always assumed that rent includes just rent, not bills or anything else (unless it's share accommodation) But seems most people replying didn't think it was strange that the OP didn't have to pay water bills, I thought maybe I was missing something?