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I'm losing it. DS just doesn't sleep. He's waking hourly again, and the only day sleeps he has are in my tired arms. I can't go on like this. I'm willing to try anything. C/C, CIO, a shot of bourbon for mummy, ANYTHING! :( If you're tempted to stand in judgement, don't reply. I need support.
:hug: I wish I could do something to help you. I wish I lived closer :hug:
Uh! I hear you hun :hugs: Do you have a sling or carrier? since I got my sling I can now go to the loo properly, I can move about and get out of the house. If you cant buy 1 maybe you could rent or borrow 1?
What do you think wakes him? change in position? change in temperature? nothing to suck? (all of these have been factors in DD waking) yesterday afternoon she slept 15mins (my sling was in the wash)
Wish I could hold baby for you, let you have a nap/ bath or do some of your washing
I wish I could hug you. I am not exaggerating when I say I know EXACTLY how you feel.
My DD is another non sleeper. We have small periods were it looks like what I am doing has helped... Then back to waking every hour :(
The only solution I have found is co sleeping. Terrible for my relationship with DP, but the only thing that gives us enough sleep to function. During the day I lay with her in bed and then sneak off to do what I need to before she realizes I am gone (mattress on the floor... Cot never worked for her)
Some kids just don't sleep well, it isn't our fault. They are just that way. I tell myself that I was chosen as a non sleepers mama because I am strong enough to do it (while I cry in the toilet at 2am wishing for just two hours sleep please jebus!)
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Oh sweetie, I don't think anyone will judge you about anything! Big hugs firstly :hug:, I think most of us mums know how bad it can get at times with our bubs and sleeping. My DS was a shocker of a sleeper during the day, which mummy was definetely not happy about as that's when she could get a wee break!! I have to say I was fortunate up until DS started teething that he slept through the night, but now often ends up in our bed. It's gotten to a point where he got used to being taken to our bed and the habbit is now quite hard to break, usually resulting in poor sleep all round (except DS of course who has the bulk of the bed all to himself!).
Have you looked into all the common things like reflux, colic, wind etc? I know I only have one earthside bub, but I found he was quite a windy baby until around 6-7 months, so I gave him infacol to help him expel the wind. I have tried everything under the sun for day sleeps (he would often sleep 30-45 minutes ONCE a day since he was very little), the only thing I wasn't really interested was CC, I just didn't think it was for us. Oh, and I did have the odd glass of wine or a bottle of beer which usually calmed me down and made me quite drunk as I hadn't had any alcohol for ages! lol
GL hunni, it really is good to reach out and ask for advice, as I'm sure many mummies will pop in and hopefully give you some ideas to try. Big hugs again and hang in there lovely!! And remember what people often say which is very true, 'this too shall pass'. It's just frasturating as you wanna know, when????!!!!
Oh you poor thing, you are doing it so tough at the moment aren't you??? :hug:
Have you had him checked over by a GP and the CHN? There might be something physical going on?
What happens when he wakes - is he distressed? Or just grizzling? What happens if you leave him for a little bit?
I don't know that CC would be too effective at this age - he doesn't quite understand the ways of the world yet! He's getting there though - he knows the best place to sleep is close to mummy. Does he sleep if you are lying next to him, in bed? Or does he have to be in your arms upright?
I've got a bad sleeper too...well 3 actually! But #3 is definately my worst. I am getting to the point that I am becoming desperate. Last night I could have left him in his cot to cry himslef back to sleep I was that tired, except that he wakes my other kids and DH and that's not fair. So up I got, hourly or more.
Have you spoken to a MCHN or gp? Would you go to a sleep school? They can give you referrals for day stays, or the more intensive units (not sure what sort of places are up there?) There are lots of books you could try using for routines ect...I'm sure your local library would have some.
I wish kids came with a manual on how to get them to sleep! Good luck, if you find the secret let me know!
Oh you poor thing! I can't imagine how you go on.
I know this is a gentle parenting site, but my personal suggestion, would be to think about trying some way of helping him to learn to self settle. It can't be good for him either to be waking this frequently. You need to be a sane mummy (not that you aren't, but I know I would be crazy by now!). Or to co-sleep.
Again, personally, we have helped our boys to self settle from about 6 weeks old. And yes, by self settle, I mean cry it out. I know others aren't comfortable with this idea, but perhaps you could consider it.
Oh you poor thing!
Have you tried contacting Tresillian? They might be able to offer you a sleep program where they can assist you in helping DS to sleep for longer periods, or at least working out why he's awake every hour.
Good Luck. :hug:
No wonder they call sleep deprivation a form of torture!!
Were at 8mths of horrible sleep so I can relate somewhat. Have you thought about the possibility of sleep school then? Worth a thought if your at a loss of what to do
Hi ForShelby, huge hugs....I am so sorry you are going through this....it sounds like something is making him uncomfortable, causing him to wake up...I can't remember from your other posts if you said you had been to a baby osteo/chiro? Is he on reflux meds....have you heard of the Horsham Colic Drops? All natural, a pharmacist in Horsham make them, people swear by them. If I think of anything else I will come back.
:hug:
The only long term solution I have found is to cosleep. I tried some other settling techniques, but in the end, as soon as they got sick or teething, I found I had to start all over again.
For me I had to change my lifestyle to prioritize my own sleep. Dd was in our bed permanently, and I went to bed about as early as I could. If she woke in the evening, I would just go and breastfeed her back to sleep and sneak out again. Then in the day I made a nap time the main focus of the day and I would change both of us for bed and go to bed with her and breastfeed her to sleep and at each stirring, until she was sleeping in a long stretch (she was older than your ds at this stage). This way we we both napping for three hours each day and getting a full nights rest each night (not a full nights sleep but it's amazing how much better you'll feel if you're not getting up each time)
Yes this will impact on your relationship with dh, but we worked around it by having a date each Saturday and got someone to mind dd so we could have lunch together. We also had dinner together without dd Most nights.
I hope this helps. You need support to help you get through this whichever way you choose...I hope you can access some.
:hug: it is sooo hard if you have a non-sleeper.
For day sleeps, have you thought about a carrier or will he sleep in the pram? From about 7months onwards, I found the only way I could get DD to sleep during the day was walking in the pram. To begin with, I would have to be moving the whole time, so we had 2x1hour walks a day (bonus was I lost all the baby weight ;)) but as she got older, I could just walk round the block and then leave her in the hallway and she would carry on sleeping.
DS was a shocker at night, and I was a walking zombie by 9months. I had to do something, and nothing was working for us. It got so bad that one night DH was out, and DS woke after an hour and no matter what I tried I could not get him back to sleep. I ended up putting him in his cot, closing the door, putting music and phoning DH, at which point I broke down into hysterical sobbing. DH thought something had happened to one of the kids. That was the point when DH said we had to do something, so after research, we decided to do the interval stuff- leave them for 2mins, go back, leave them for 4, go back in, 6, 8, 10. We never left him longer than 10minutes. It was hard, but it only took 4nights, and even the first night, he only woke up once (as opposed to 6+ times). Now, unless something is wrong, he will generally sleep 7pm-6.30am, and is happy about going to bed. And he is a happy, affectionate child during the day (which I am so glad for as I was so worried we would break him).
I know this is a gently parenting site, and many won't agree with me, and before I had DS, I would'nt have agreed with me either. But only you know how you are coping or not, and noone can judge you for doing what you have to do. The way I justified it to myself was because of my sleep depravation I wasn't being a good mummy during the day, so by doing the interval crying, we all got sleep and it has made me a much better mummy to both my children. My lack of sleep was affecting DD majorly, and as soon as I was better, things changed with her too.
:hug: take care of yourself. I hope whatever you choose, things improve.
I'm sorry forshelby. I have no advice because my little guy is only *just* learning to sleep all night and without our 'assistance' at 21 months and that's only because he has kinda had too since DS2's arrival.
It WILL happen one day. I know that's not much help right now but it WILL happen.
Big hugs for you xx
Cheezel - Thanks hun.
Doubletrouble - I have a sling but he just goes berserk no matter what when he's in one of these moods.
Meercat - We already co-sleep, but it doesn't seem to be working anymore.
Miss.B - We looked into colic and reflux, he had both and was treated for both. He's come off his meds as it wasn't an issue anymore, but sleep has always been an issue through it all, meds or not.
Oceanprincess - He wakes grizzling sometimes, but mostly it progresses to distressed screaming very quickly. Even if I'm right there holding him, he still works up to a full blown scream. If I leave him for a little bit the screaming goes on indefinitely. He'll go to sleep if I lie down beside him but as soon as I move or try to put him in his bed he cracks it again.
3littlemonkeys - I've tried a few routines from the dreaded books. That resulted in me wanting to have a bonfire with said books. (lucky they aren't mine or I would've burned them in a fit of rage by now). I'm looking into sleep school but can't get through to talk to an actual person, I keep getting put through to this and that dept, and nobody can actually put me in the right spot!
Bloom - We've tried CIO before. He screamed to the point we were both extremely distressed. He was getting to the point where he was choking himself on his own saliva so I couldn't let it go on. He'll cry indefinitely, it seems.
BlackRose - Tell me more about this Tresillian thingie.....
Em - Short answer- YES. Long answer comes with a but.
BooBoo - I think I said above to someone else, that he was on meds but it made no difference to his sleep. He no longer needs them as he's the same on or off them now.
Arcadia - The most heartbreaking part of this is that cosleeping is no longer working. I don't know what changed.
SammyRo - The interval thing hasn't worked so far, but maybe it's because I'm in the wrong frame of mind. Maybe I'm hindering its success by giving up too soon and picking him up to rock him to sleep.
Stoked - Soooo I should have another baby? heh... thanks for making me smile.
If anyone can give me more specifics on HOW they taught their babies to self soothe I'd be very grateful. I didn't want to do this, I wanted to be a gentle parent, but during the day, after no sleep.. I am NOT gentle. I'm a sobbing, hysterical mess and I can barely manage to smile at my baby let alone play with him. He will be better off suffering just a little bit through some firm handed parenting now, than having a zombie for a mother. :( Failure, thy name is Forshelby.
We did sleep school through the Queen Elizabeth Centre when DD was 6 months old and I have never looked back. She is now 3 (almost) and ever since then has been a perfect sleeper. It was such a huge weight off my shoulders. :hug: :hug:
Have you investigated food allergies/intolerances? Any in your families?
Forshelby, you're not a failure, you're a mother trying to parent a high-needs baby all on your own. You need physical assistance. I know you don't have family around and your DH does what he can, but that really is the crux of your problem I think. Can you talk to your CHN or GP about support services for parents in need? There must be something out there for parents all on their own.
I'm not Black Rose, but can tell you a little about tressilian. It is similar to Karitane (if you know what that is!). They are both sleep 'schools'. They both use methods of CC, to help families with getting kids into sleep routines. They have residential programmes where you can go and stay for a few nights-a week or two (I think!) or they have day stays where you can go and learn to sooth your LO with the help of professionals taught in their methods.:
Do not feel bad about trying to learn how to be a better parent. You need to be happy too. I know the trauma and torture of not sleeping and it's so not pretty. It can cause depression and rifts in relationships. You are doing what you need to to be a better mother and to become the persona nd parent you want to be.
just wanted to suggest a sleep school, probably has been mentioned but I havent had time to read all of the replies. I know a couple of people who it has really helped.
You are NOT bad mother. It saddens me to hear this. :hug:
Please call your CHN and get some assistance - i know here, a girl in my mothers group was able to get some assistance from the local sleep whisperer really quickly after the referral from the CHN.
:hug: i don't really have much practical help because my DS didn't stop waking 45m-2hrly overnight until he was 18 months old! but i did want to reinforce that how your child sleeps is not a reflection on your success or failure as a parent - it's the luck of the draw. you are NOT a failure, you're just unlucky.
day sleeps here didn't improve until DS was 6 months - until then i was holding him for a lot of naps....so i'd nap with him or read a mag/book whilst he slept. my DS sounds similar to yours in that i don't think CC or CIO would have worked because he could cry...and cry...and cry with no stopping. co-sleeping in various forms worked for us & these days it's him sleeping in between DP & i. during the night he does still wake/half wake but being able to reach out & touch us & know we're there comforts him & he goes back to sleep. that didn't work until recently though (he's 2) & until that point, i would feed/cuddle depending on where we were at.
people gave me lots of advice - that he'd sleep better once on solids (nup), he'd sleep better once he could crawl (nope)...he'd sleep better once he could walk (still no). ultimately the only thing that worked for us was time. if that's where you find yourself, the main thing you need to do is take any opportunity you can to rest. i made lots of excuses why i couldn't rest/sleep but ultimately, i could. you also need to take time for yourself & have a break.
:hug: i hope you can find something that works for you soon.
Similar to Sloane, time was the thing that worked here too. I never tried a sleep school, but understand people trying their methods. I always found bit more energy to keep going each time i thought i was at the end. If you think you are getting to the end of your energy reserves though, maybe it is time to seek help/support from friends, family or professionals.
take care,
Tried PMing you but your inbox is full, but here is some info I found for you
Hi hun,
I thought I might have a quick look for you in case you were busy with bub (I am lucky enough to have 2 of mine asleep...rarely happens in this house!). After a very quick google I found this info for you, not sure where on the GC you are, but there are a couple of choices for you to look at:
QUEENSLAND
Ellen Barron Family Centre
•Rode Road, CHERMSIDE QLD 4032
•Phone: (07) 3139 6500
•Fax: (07) 3139 6555
•Website: www DOT health.qld.gov.au/rch/families/cchs_rsp.asp
The Ellen Barron centre is run by QLD Health. Its a free service, but you need to have a referral from your GP or MCHN and there's a waiting list.
You also usually need to have some history of taking your bub to the child health clinic in an attempt to resolve the issue with them before you can get a place.
Once you get in you stay for 5 days (could be 7 but I think it's 5). They use a version of controlled crying (or controlled comforting) as do all sleep schools.
Bubba Hush Centre:
There is a private version at Keperra called the Bubba Hush Centre that does day stays only but you pay out of pocket.
Other:
There are also a few people (private MCHN's) who will come to your house and do basically the same thing with you in your home. Again you have to pay upfront, no rebates.
There's a company called Night Nannies that will come to your house, stay overnight and show you settling techniques, routines etc. They also have a service where they will get up to the baby all night so you can get some sleep which is really helpful if you're absolutely at the end of your rope and can't even think straight anymore, let alone try to tackle your baby's sleep issues.
Riverton is a sleep school for Brisbane. You can speak to CHN about it and tell them your desperate for help. Ask about doing a day stay while you waiting to get in.
Riverton is free and the stay is 5 days- Monday to Friday. All food is provided. The accommodation is not the greatest but it's okay. The best thing about it is that you can have some time out of the real world (no housework), get some support and be with other mums.
There is a QLD Health Day Stay sleep clinic at Beenleigh.
HTH hunny. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture for a reason!! Don't feel bad about trying what you need to to feel human again and to enjoy your life and your bub. Don't let anyone guilt you into feeling bad for trying to be better. No matter how you get there (within reasonable bounds of course!) you are doing the right thing for you and your family.
See if you can get into your CHN and talk to her ASAP. A friend did this here in Vic and she was referred by the CHN as a priority to Tweddle (the equivalent of your Tresillian)..it was getting dangerous for her to drive around due to sleep deprivation. Her little one was about the same age as your little one and waking every hour on the hour.
They may suggest a week long stay.
:hug: You are not a failure, in fact you are a wonderful Mum asking for help and advice as you just want the best for you and your baby.
When DS was about 6 mnthish I had to start sleeping through the day when he did. It was the only way I could cope and get him to sleep. I remember when he was teething it was common for him to wake half hourly through the night. I went to Trisillian when DS was 11 mnthish and while it helped (he went to sleep in his cot to start the night) after this I did find it really difficult. I stayed for 4 nights. When we got home things weren't much different except he would start the night in his cot.
The only way we have gotten through is we got DS a king single so that I could join him when he woke through the night. He would still wake up through the night but I was right there to settle him and he went back to sleep quicker. I hate to say this but DS is only just sleeping through now at 3 and 1/2 and that isn't most nights.
:hug: some babies don't ever self soothe, others learn to and others self soothe from day dot. It doesn't make it any easier I know but it does get better. You are not a failure because your baby wants to be near you and held a lot. In fact you are a great mother in reaching out to see if there is anything you can do different to help :hug:
Hi Forshelby, can you clear your inbox I have just tried to message you some support options.
Thanks
Ok this will sound silly - but is he over tired all the time? My Dd would go 2-3 hrs between sleep in the day and I would see her sleep signs (rubbing eyes, grizzling) and put her to bed and she would drift off. BUT with DS is can only do 1-1.5 hrs between sleeps and if I see his sleep signs its to late and he is already over tired and trying to get him to sleep is a nightmare, he just screams and screams! So I put him to bed every hr or every 1.5 hrs without fail, I wrap him, tuck him in tight and put his mobile on, dummy in and give him his soft toy. He sometimes goes straight to sleep but usually he babbled for 5-10 mins and I'll put his dummy in a few times and he puts himself to sleep. He is so used to that routine now that he hates being rocked to sleep. He sleeps about 2 x 2-3 hrs sleeps and 3 x 1 hr sleeps a day, we use the same routine at night and he now wakes 1-2 times a night for a bottle but straight back to sleep. He was a nightmare to sleep day ir night before I started this routine.
It may not work for you but maybe worth a try? Saying that my DD in nearly 3 and she wakes once a night in a good night.. Its hard xo
Oh and DS us 5.5 months old so pretty close to your DS.
MadB - Nobody in either of our families has food allergies. But I keep thinking if that was the issue, then he wouldn't settle at all, right? He'll have a good day here and there, which is what makes it so confusing. What is it that's bothering him the rest of the time that can just magically be ok on those good days? Hmm. I agree, there should be something out there for parents with no support around.
3littlemonkeys - Thanks for doing all that research. Unfortunately, they're all reeeeally far away. Beenleigh is the closest and it's at least 45 mins from where I am, maybe more. I might do some googling to see if I can find one closer. Also, the night nanny thing sounds awesome, but money is an issue. I'm spending a lot on physio and podaitry for his little foot problem, so am just completely unable to stretch the budget any further to accomodate this. Unless I find a way to survive on air? *chuckle*
Sahbear - I've been trying all day to get through to someone on the phone who isn't a machine. I keep getting palmed off to other various machines. :(
Sloane - I'm tired of being the unlucky one. I got the crap birth... did I have to get the crap sleeper too? Sometimes I find myself wondering why I didn't just die on the table. Awful, I know. So far I have been napping when I can etc, but I'm so over spending my day in PJs and grabbing sleep when I can. I just want some kind of normal life! 5hrs sleep a night plus a nap would be great, but it doesn't happen that way, as I'm sure you know.
Hoti - I was hoping you were going to say you waved your magic wand and all was well. Damn. :)
Heather - I wonder if I should be driving sometimes. Thanks for the advice.
Kelebek - I actually have managed to get him starting the night out in his cot/bassinette. But every night, without fail... he's up the instant my head hits the pillow. It's like he knows I've just gone to bed or something. I even tried varying the time and 'sneaking' to bed. Nope, my little alarm clock goes off. :( Thanks though.
ladybirdflies - Clearing it now.
Jakabella - Yes, he is overtired all the time, which compounds the problem. I find if i can FORCE him to sleep during the day by lying down with him (sometimes for up to 6hrs total during the day) it helps.... but as soon as I need to get something done, or go to an appointment (which is often with his clubfoot treatment) his routine is stuffed up and we start again. I think that's making it worse, actually.. all the appointments etc getting in the way. But I have to go to them! Anyway, yes, I've tried a similar thing, but once he gets bored with his mobile/toy/whatever, the screaming starts and does not stop.
I've thought of a couple of solutions which might ease my pain throughout the day. A single bed in our room would extend our bed to a king size or bigger. We could all co-sleep then pretty easily. But if DS cries, DP wakes up and is tired for work.... so that will only work if the little bugger will settle for sleeping beside me and not ON me. The other idea is sleep school.. which I'm struggling to find one i can actually get through to............. (will talk to the GP about this one) and the other idea is to just grit my teeth and keep going. I don't like that last idea very much, but it's looking very possible at this stage.
I don't know if any of my thoughts just made sense then... I think it's time to attempt a nap.
It can be tough when you have little or no support. It's surprising how many of us are out there with no family to help.
Time was all that worked for me. DS1 started sleeping well at six and a half months. I was soooo tired and strung out - and then it just happened.
DS2 is 20 months old and he still sleeps like a baby - and by that i mean he grizzles and wakes up and wants company and sleeps a bit and grizzles some more etc etc! I didn't want to try sleep school just because the only ones i could find used CC, and that's not really my thing. I hope you can catch a few good days in a row and you can start to feel human again.
Oh gosh I wish I could do something for you, I haven't had a non sleeper myself but yeah, some babies just don't like sleep and it is nothing you have done, some kids are just like that.
With the government run sleep schools, they work on referral from health nurses so even if you got to talk to some one they would probably not be able to get you in. So you need to get your local health nurse (not sure what they are called in Queensland CYH/CHN whatever) on side and fighting in your corner. Do they have day services in Queensland......where you go in for a few hours with a nurse and they have a room and cot set up and they see how things are going? While the intention is for them to give you tips on what to do, if they see what is happening first hand they will see that it really is an exceptional circumstance that needs an exceptional plan. From what you are saying she will be writing out the referral quick as a flash. Also it shouldn't be up to you to find different services and what not, your nurse is the one in the networks who has the contacts and knows what is available, get her to point you in the right direction.
Good luck...x
Oh sweetie. I wish I could give you big squishy hugs.
No advice, just masses and masses of love.
Is he on solids?
Babe, you are 100% right - you need support. And here it is from me. No doubt you feel like you have tried EVERYTHING, heard every little piece of advice and swing from wanting to hear more ideas to just feeling like deep down this is the way it is for you and you have to suck it up. I am a big believer that when things really really suck we don't have a clear concept of how to fix the problem because our judgment gets clouded. I think you need a fresh start, find a brand new MCHN and get some else news perspective. It's just my 2c but I can tell you want and need support and I think it all helps. Massive :hug:
Massive :hug: As another parent of a bad sleeper I don't have any advice that others probably haven't already given. I just want you to know you are NOT a failure. And it doesn't last forever.
Yes.:
I still can't get the message through??
It's a long shot, but you're desperate, right? Maybe cut out the food and see what happens. If nothing else you've ruled it out as a factor.
This is how I felt at 6 months, I kept waiting for that "magic time" when people said my dd would calm down, sleep, be over reflux etc and by 6 months I was going out of my mind. I had a breakdown in front of a health nurse and she contacted tresillian and I got in the next day after my phone interview. I must have sounded VERY desperate as most of the time people wait weeks and months to get in. It ddnt help all of my DD's problems, she is still a bad sleeper and still has silent reflux but things did start improving.
Sending you a hug, wish I could make you feel better!
I can e-mail you a program called sleep sense if you want to give it a go at home. My gf used it and she had success. It is really hands on & a gentle method of settling & sleep techniques. PM me your addy if you want it. Otherwise, my other gf just had a lady come over for the night & give techniques for self settling etc.... It cost her about $500. They lady told her it takes up to 10 days for improvement if you stick to the techniques - I think it is like tweedle and the likes. I can get those details for you too if you like. ((hugs))