Daycare incident - not sure how to deal with it.

As background, Sam's 2 years and 9 months, a complete dummy addict, but we were having a great deal of success in limiting his dummy use to sleep time only. He's been going to this day care centre since he was one. He seems to really like the staff there and appears to be doing ok.

And then there was Friday.

On Friday when I picked him up, I noticed that he was a bit more upset than usual and just a bit more insistent on being given his dummy back than usual. It's normal for me to get there and he doesn't have a dummy, but often asks for it when he sees me going to get it from where they are stored. We can usually divert him and get him to come home without it in his mouth, but on Friday there were tears over no dummy.

While I was collecting him, one of the carers told me he was "being defiant" at sleep time and would not lay down on his bed, so one of the carers took his dummy away from him and told him he could have it back if he lay down. I was told that he shot the carer a filthy look and said no and continued to refuse to lay down. He was told again that he could have his dummy back if he lay down. More filthy looks, more digging in his heals, more outright refusal.

At this point we were interrupted by another parent needing something of their child's and the conversation was ended and I do not know how the stand off ended. I do know (from reading in the book) that Sam did eventually have a sleep, but I have no idea how they went about it.

Ever since, I have had an extremely anxious, clingy and unhappy child. He's normally upset when DH leaves for work (real daddy's boy) but we've had hysterics when DH leaves for church or work.

After a lot of hard work we had got to the point where Sam would happily hand over his dummy when asked and put it away with no issues. If something was upsetting him or he was over-tired he wouldn't, but we could see that pretty quickly and leave it with him for a bit longer. It was great having him use it less and he was starting to talk more.

Since Friday he will not let his dummy go. He will not give it up for anything. If he's given something to eat and drink, the confused expression on his face over how he's going to hold his food, drink and get his dummy out is just incredible. If he's eating, it must be in his hand. Not even on the table beside his plate - in his hand.

I'm appalled that they have attempted to use my child's comfort item (we have tried repeatedly to get him to use a soft toy, a blanket, anything, but nope - gotta be a dummy) in such a way to enforce behaviour. I'm extremely upset about the way it has effected my child - seeing a child so young going through such severe anxiety issues is just heartbreaking.

But the big problem - it was the director that did it! If it had been any other member of staff that had done it I would have had no hesitation about going to the director and talking to them and insisting that it never happen again - because it has just undone over 12 months of hard work in dummy weaning without stressing him out! But who do you go to when it's the director that's done the thing that is upsetting you? On what planet is it ok for someone caring for a child not their own to treat them in such a manner?

I'm very upset and just have no idea what to do. I'm very tempted to pull him out, but due to a medical procedure I have coming up I need Sam to stay there as my procedure is on a day care day and it's one less issue for an already incredibly stressful day. But if my child's anxiety is going to get worse???

I just really don't know what to do. He's supposed to go again tomorrow - I often feel like I'm being rushed out the door at drop off (and it can be the same at pick up) and while I understand that they are just trying to avoid lingering goodbyes and the upset that it causes the children, I really don't think I'm comfortable leaving him without this issue being addressed... only I don't know how to address it. :(

BW

ooo, no, not cool! That was a really bad way to try and handle the situation.
I'm not really sure on the best thing to do - but I think you really need to make it clear that you are not happy. They need to understand the consequences for your little boy. I can't imagine what would happen if someone tried to take DS' Nut off him at bed time.
You say you feel rushed - do you feel ok with the care there otherwise, or do you have other issues also?

You need to say that DS has been upset for a week, and that you do not want them to repeat that method of getting him to lie down. Carer's make mistakes - you just need to make sure that it isn't repeated. If the director's attitude to your request is anything other than "sorry, we won't do that again" then you may want to think about placing him elsewhere - but if he is usually OK there then further upheaval at the moment is probably counterproductive.

I've been generally quite happy with things there. They have two rooms - one that's 0-3 and the other that's 3-school age. Sam's in the 0-3 room and they have recently had quite a lot of very small babies start and it's starting to feel that they just don't have enough time for the older kids. I'm really starting to wonder if it's 0-3 so they can fudge the staff ratios and get away with having less people on.

BW

Do you think it would be a good idea to call and make an appointment to speak to the director about the incident? A more formal discussion that just a quick chat at drop off.

It's going to be interesting seeing how Sam goes at drop off tomorrow.

Or just phone them not at drop off and speak to the director when you know things are a bit quieter at the centre and they will have more time to listen.

I would probably organise a time for a proper sit down so that you can't be interrupted again. In terms of the age and ratio thing, I don't think they can fudge ie if they have a certain amount of babies they would have to have the correct number of staff regardless of the age going up to 3 ikywim.

As a Director of a child care centre, I feel that is not a very good way of handling rest time and getting your child to lie down.

I would call and make an appointment that way there are no interruptions and she can give you her full attention, let her know you don't feel it was acceptable to use his dummy to get him to try and rest and how upset he has been since the incident and how it has affected him.

As for 0-3 rooms it is pretty common for most centre's to have that age range in the one room depending on the size of the centre and ratios usually does not have anything to do with it as they will only be licensed to take so many under two year olds anyway... for instance in a 0-3 room at another centre I worked they have 15 children but could only take five of those under two the rest were 2-3 year olds.

After you have addressed the issue I would wait and see how things go if you are normally generally happy with the care they provide but if you find you are not after some time then start to look elsewhere.

Good luck I hope that the Director takes the time to listen and respond to your concerns.

A sit-down chat sounds great: that really is not acceptable behaviour from the director.

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You need to say that DS has been upset for a week, and that you do not want them to repeat that method of getting him to lie down. Carer's make mistakes - you just need to make sure that it isn't repeated. If the director's attitude to your request is anything other than "sorry, we won't do that again" then you may want to think about placing him elsewhere - but if he is usually OK there then further upheaval at the moment is probably counterproductive.

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I agree with Kmn's response. I think this sounds like resonable and rational response. If you don't like the outcome following your requests, consider finding another day care. Unfortuneately you are back to square one when it come to weening off the dummy.

you could try the talking, but it may fall on deaf ears, the day I walked into my son's daycare and found he was sleeping outside on cement and not a carer to be found at only 13 months I told them then and there I would not be returning as it was also the director who was there chatting in the other room!, my son was always last to be picked up. He had been unsettled a few weeks before and would SCREAM! whenever he saw the daycare sign as we drove in, whereas he loved it before when we were at a different one, I would go with your instinct, kids show signs and it looks like your little one's behaviour has changed a lot. Yes it would be a pain to find another one but it made me and him feel so much better, also if he started somewhere new you can set down your dummy guidelines from day one! best of luck with how everything goes, but don't feel bad if you decide to go elsewhere!

I'm so sorry BW that you and DS had that happen. They have definitely set him back with weaning off the dummy. I would make a formal appt. It tells them you are serious and want to be taken seriously. I would go in with the attitude that you realise they are busy and stressed but want to know the reasoning behind forcing the issue with him. Hear what they have to say. I can't personally think of any reason that I would find acceptable but their response will be interesting. At the end of the day they've only made the situation worse for themselves as well as you so i"d have a think and be really clear about the dummy plan now that's happened. ie you might just want to let ds have it anytime for the next month before starting the weaning again.

He will give it up eventually. They need to respect that its very important to him and he really is still quite little. Massive hugs to you both.


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Yep, I'd definitely talk to them about it, I think you need to for yourself and for your DS. Its obviously really unsettled him & they need to be aware of this - if for some reason they don't see what happened as a big deal, they need to be made aware that it was a big deal for him.

I like KMN's advice, their reaction to what you have to say will say a lot about what you can expect in the future.

Loving the advice so far! I'm in a state of heightened anxiety which I think is rubbing off on Sam as well, which certainly doesn't help with his dummy use. I'm feeling unbelievably anxious about taking him today, but it's not just because of the dummy issue.

I think my current plan is to tell them when I drop him off that he's been very upset and anxious since Friday, our slowly weaning him off the dummy has been set way back and I do not want them to attempt to take it off him if it upsets him. I'd rather he have the dummy all day than be stressed and upset. Will take things as they come with the director - I don't always see her at drop off and if I'm not there before 5 I don't see her when I pick him up. I may just mention that one of the carers told me about an incident but didn't finish as we were interrupted and that I'd like to come in and talk to her about it at some stage... but I'll leave calling to make that appointment until tomorrow.

I'm sorry but what they did is just plain mean :(
I think you've been given some really good advice. It must be such a hard situation to be in. I struggle as it is with my MIL caring for my dd for just a cpl hrs a week because of the unsettled behaviour we have afterwards and her dismissive behaviour when it comes to our parenting choices. I say make an appointment with the director and go from there. If you are not received well I'd probably pull him out, if she can't see what she did was wrong then it may happen again. Good luck

Could you email the director?
That way it is in writing, and she can respond in her and your own time

The director wasn't around when I dropped him off. The carer that was telling me about Friday's incident isn't on today (or at least wasn't there either). I did see the director outside.

I decided against going in with accusations and just mentioned that he'd been very stressed and anxious since Friday and was relying on his dummy so much more than normal, that it all started after day care on Friday and I really don't want his dummy taken away if it's going to make him worse. The girls that were in the room said they were both working on Friday and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary (!!!!) but they would leave his dummy with him and if he did hand it over they would put it in his little cubby hole where his bag goes so he can get it back without having to ask.

Debating a phone call to the director today, but might just see how we go at pick up. Stress levels over impending medical tests aren't leaving me with much brain space to handle confrontation, but at the same time, I don't want my son receiving sub-standard care that is ultimately doing more harm than good!

:hug: how stressful for you and for you DS.

I really think this is something you need to follow up with the Director. Bribing a child to comply with a comfort item isn't acceptable - whether you're the director or not.

I can understand you wanting to avoid confrontation right now, but perhaps putting together a short email that documents what you understand happened and the effect on your DS would be worthwhile. At the end of the email you could then ask to set up a meeting to discuss it in a couple of weeks time after you've had your procedure. It may also be worth pretending that you weren't aware that it was the Director...

I tend to think that if you let it go for a couple of days, or week or two, it will be much harder to pursue. She may have even forgotten that it happened or at the very least will be sketchy on the details. By making it clear that you're not happy with what took place now you can ensure it will be dealt with appropriately when you are ready to deal with it.

HTH

I think it is important that you make an appointment to talk to the Director about the issue as soon as you can I can understand that you probably don't need any extra stress right now with everything you have going on, but I also think you are not going to feel any better unless the issue comes out and that you can let them know how it has affected your DS. You will prob continue to worry about the care he might recieve also if you do not let them know how you feel.

I think it is important to be honest about the whole situation so that includes honesty about knowing it was the Director. I mean you don't have to go in guns blazing but just approach it from the point of view that you know that this has happened and that you feel there could have been better methods in dealing with your DS at rest time and trying to get him to lie down, and that it has upset you as your DS has been so unsettled since friday and you feel that this is what has caused it, let them know the details of how he has been feeling and reacting and that you just wanted to let them know you are not happy with this and that hopefully next time they can improve on how the stratigies they may use to get children to settle at rest time, ask if there is anything that they think you could do to work with them to help with his behaviour at rest time if this is an issue..

I really hope that they respond professionally to your concerns and also that this was a one off. Make sure if after this is resolved if you do not feel comfortable with how it is resolved or how things are going after time that you begin to look for another service. I just think it is very important to be happy and 100% comfortable with where your children are and different places suit different people but you need to feel confident in the care that is provided for your child and also feel comfortable that you can take concerns to them and that they will be listened to, no one is perfect but often it's how they respond to situtaions like this that will show things, You will feel if it is genuine. good luck !

How did your DS go at daycare today?

I agree with the other ladies that you need to make an appointment to speak to the Director ASAP. A comfort item should never be used as bribery for good behaviour.

I got there to pick him up and he was incredibly happy and calm and relaxed and I could see that he'd had an absolutely fantastic time. The girls told me that he voluntarily gave up his dummy to be put in its box, and at rest time he just waited on his bed for them to bring it to him (they have a flock of other kids who mob the basket with the boxes trying to get theirs back before they go to their bed) and after sleep time he happily handed it back. No issues, no dramas, was happy and engaged and played with the other kids all day.

So I'm left with the conclusion that he's picking up on my stress levels and that's upsetting him. The dummy thing may have started it, but he's apparently completely fine now. Just has one parent that's a stressed out basket case and another that's completely exhausted and needs a break.

I'll certainly keep an eye on things and will stress to the centre that he is starting to not have a day sleep every day, and that's fine with me.

BW

That is great news.

I'd take it up with the director again and ask that this not be repeated, that they use other tactics other than his dummy and you are aware that weaning him from the dummy is important, but that you are doing it gently. I'd take the tack that perhaps she didn't realise how important his dummy was to him and you'd be happy to discuss alternative methods.

The fact she did talk to you about it would indicate she wasn't intending the consequences to be so severe. If you're generally happy with the centre I'd say you have a good shot of sorting it out directly, rather than taking him out altogether (which might also exacerbate his anxiety).

Have you thought about talking to someone about early childhood anxiety? You might find it helpful to deal with the fallout and anything else you are concerned about with him. I know Macquarie uni has a specialist childhood anxiety centre that is available to the public and does deal with preschool/toddler issues, not just older kids. I'm sure there are other facilities closer you could access.

GL sorting it all out.

ETA: Just read your post. :hug: Sounds like you have it all sorted. Well done, you!

Glad childcare went well. Must be relief for you to know he was happy.

I have anxiety. DS has an appointment coming up, and i am sure he is aware how stressed I am about it! it's hard eh??!!

oh good! Really glad he seems back to normal. It's awful when they get upset and anxious about things.

yay - glad that he was happy when you picked him up today :)