What the bejeepers would you have said???

Hi Everyone...
I've been lurking for what seems like forever! Finally decided that you all seem cool enough to ask for advice?

I'm currently 17 weeks pregnant, and am going thru the Frankston public hospital while seeing my regular GP for most of my care.
Last week I had my Obs appt at the hospital. High risk supposedly, as I have a BMI of 43 and have had 2 previous caesers. Also, According to "hospital files" i've got a past history of pre-eclampsia. I know what that is, but I never had it???
Anyway, my problem? I've made it quite clear from the start that I want to try for a vba2c. My GP is all for it, but he said essentially it's upto what ever hospital I go thru, and is "very interested" to hear what their response will be.
After waiting for an hour to finally see the obs at the womens centre, (frankston hosp) I finally got in, only to sit down across from a guy with arrogance written all over his face.
"So, I hear you want to try for a vbac?"
Um, yes.
"So, you've obviously had a ceaser before?"
2 actually, both at this hospital.
"Oh."
"Well, I can see you've had pretty big babies in the past"
Well, my first was quite large, 9'4oz , second was 7p8oz, e/c
"And you went over your dates in your first pregnancy?"
Yes.
"You'll be hard pressed to find someone that will let you try, but it is your right as a public patient to try if you wish. But just so you know, if you come in, and I'm the obs on call, You're going to have a ceaserean."
Right, so even if I'm full swing, you're still going to make me have one?
"Yes"
So, you'll let me go over, and go into labour, but you'll still make me have a ceaser?
"Yes, and I would think that 8/10 of the other obs at Frankston will say the same thing. "
Right. Well, I'm willing to play the odds game if I have to

Not once did he ask me why I wanted to try. Nor did he give me any of the risks so i could counteract him (yup, i've been researching since the moment I found out I was pregnant). Nor did he check me over in any way shape or form. Didn't lay a finger on me, take my blood pressure, NOTHING. That transcript went around in circles for all of about 4 minutes, at which time I was told to make an appt with them again in 6 weeks so they can "check my ultrasound results and try to talk me out of it then".. Yeah.. thanks. Thanks a lot!

Then i left, hoping to GOD that I never have to see that obs again! What a *****.

So... where to go from here? Do i try and make an appt to see a different obs or do I try to find another hospital?

EJ was born at 41+4 after being induced via emergency c-section for "failure to progress" 08/06
JW was born around 38 weeks (they claimed no more than 37 when they pulled him out, but wrote 39+3 on hospital forms???) by elective ceaser 12/07

I have issues with getting needles put in my back (JW's spinal block took 50 mins plus of continuous needles trying to get it in, then 6 months ago I needed a lumbar puncture, and the same thing happened.)

That being said, I want to stay at Frankston for the pure fact that they have ALL of my previous history since adult hood. and, as much as I want to go natural, the ceaser i had with JW (other than the needle trouble) was a great experience, having him with me the whole time, encouraging first feed while I was still in recovery, and heaps of support. ANd you know what they say, "better the devil you know" haha.

SO, I don't know. My hubby is just like "what ever you want to do honey, you know I'll support you either way"

hmmm...

Anyways... Any advice is welcome :)

Hi there, congratulations for expecting your third baby! I went for VBA2C in a public hospital (RWH Melbourne) and did shared care for all 3 babies. This meant i only had to go to the hospital about 4 times before birth and each time i met with a different OB. 3 were similar to yours although a little more respectful and i found i had to go in armed with all the studies i could find about the risks so i could demonstrate to them that i understood the risks fully. My case was a little different in that my 2nd c-section i ended up with a inverted T cut so it was a bit more tricky, nevertheless the process of getting them to agree was the same.

I had to get 'sign off' from the head of the department and then the final ob I saw couldn't have been more supportive.

In the public system, i belive they have to accept your wishes (whereas a private hospital could refuse to take you on with this request). You will know from your experience, that you can only have a c-section if you give them written consent.

I found one of the best things i did was hire a private midwife in addition to the public hospital care. She gave me such a lot of valuable positive support from the moment i found her and got me into the right head space of focusing positively on the birth. I did waste a lot of energy feeling like i was fighting the doctors and talking about the negatives a lot.

my husband also had the same attitude and things helped me a lot when he read summaries of the studies (he wasn't interested in reading all the details!) and understood how low the risks are and how you can take precautionary steps (like being close to a hospital, having quality care etc).

Good luck with it all and i hope you get the VBA2C that you want!!

I would be walking straight out of the hospital door and not going back! Have you considered a home birth with a Independent Midwife? Or what about having an IM with you while you birth in hospital. Or a doula?

You can definitely request not to see that Ob again (I think that is a must!)

Or could Warragul Hospital be an option? They have a pretty good VBAC rate.

I would have asked how he thinks he is going to make you sign the consent form.

Seriously... that's so not cool. No advice, no reasoned discussion, just weiding his title. Bleurgh. Is changing hospitals an option, or homebirth?

Do you know who he was? Calm down and then think about writing a letter to both the particular obstetrician and the head of obstetrics.

Detail the conversation you have had, and (just as importantly) the conversation you haven't had. Ask why the actual risks weren't discussed and why nothing was checked.

Compliment them on the way they carried out your previous CS so that they understand that you are not out to hate them.

Make it clear that you do not and will not consent to a CS for any reason other than genuinely life-threatening complications for you or your baby. Explain your previous issues with anaesthetics and spinal injections, and request that the hospital does all it can to help you avoid a repeat of this situation.

Ask if it is possible for you to see one of the mythical "2-out-of-10" obstetricians, at their convenience, to discuss your options with someone who might be more supportive.

Good luck!

I don't think I can say what I would of said. What a jerk :duh:

:hug:

I think you need to prepare yourself that you might be faced with a similar OB in labour. A doula might be your best option to provide you with some support, especially in the face of the scaremongering you might encounter. Remember no matter how much they want you to have a CS they need your consent first. If you don't give this then they can be as unsupportive as they like but they cannot cut you open.

Personally I would arrange a meeting with the director of obstetrics or someone similar, and have a full and frank discussion about what interventions you will accept and which you will not. Explain that you are going for a VBA2C and bring along the evidence which says this is as likely to be successful as a VBA1C. There are studies out there which state this. Be calm and acknowledge their position but be firm in yours. Good luck!

Also have a read of these

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...thread-156866/
Vaginal Birth a Safe Option After Multiple C-Sections | The Ohio State Medical Center
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...498.x/abstract

Sounds like an arrogant bully to me! I have no advice as I never had a c/s so that wasn't something I researched or had to argue with the docs about(I had other issues lol) Stick to your guns!! :goodluck: :goodluck: :goodluck: I hope you get your VBAC2.

How exactly is he planning on 'making' you? They can recommend all they like, but they still need your consent. I think hiring a private m/w as your support would be a good option. And seeing another ob too! The letter sounds like a good idea.

This guy's attitude sure beats all.

So.... I'm not just going insane? That guy WAS totally rude, and it wasn't just in my head? Ah, I feel soo much better.... My hubby was telling me that he's just thinking of my safety. I was like, "Dear Hubby, You weren't there... You didn't see how arrogant he was."
So, Tuesday I'll be seeing my GP. His wife is a midwife at one of the other local hospitals (a "low risk" one, so I can't go there!) but he'll be able to either advise me of which I could choose, or help me find out what the dudes name I saw was so I can ask to never see him again! Yes, It's written in my hospital notes, but, for the life of me, I cannot understand his writing. It starts with an "R"... but that's all I got :p
There is the option of going to Monash or Dandenong I think, I've even heard that Dandenong has a vbac clinic, but I've also been told that it's just for vbac, not vbamc. ....
Even the Ob pointed out. "Maybe you'd be better off going to Monash if you think your chances might be higher". Yep, actually trying to get me to change hospitals. The stupid thing was, when I walked in, there was another lady sitting over by the bed (yes, there was a bed in there so he could've checked any number of things while I was there!) but not once was I introduced or told who she was, she was just a silent observer... In fact, I don't think he even introduced him self. He did ask how I was that day... like he cared... :P
I totally love the attitude that they do have around mother/baby when you DO have a caeser, which I've not heard from other hospitals. Which is why i feel myself trapped.
Home birth is not an option. I still put the reason I didn't progress in the first one as the fact my mother in law didn't know how to leave, and DH didn't know how to take orders "yeah, i'll get her out when you've gone a bit further... there's no one else here for her at the moment" She had a frickin birds eye view of my waters being broken. She was meant to come say hello and leave, not hang around! but, as she caught a taxi in, she had to wait for someone else to come get her. (yes... Hubby is mummy's little boy, last boy and she had him at the age of 40, so he and his younger sister are the spoilt babies from the last marriage! and as such, she now lives in our property in the granny flat out the back!). That, and the fact that hubby had a heart attack at the joked suggestion, and then went on to say "over my dead body". So you know.

I am currently working on my hubby for the chance to have a midwife/doula... He's worried about costs. We'll have to wait and see about that one.

any way.... Thanks guys for all your advice.... I'd almost given in the other day, Don't know if i can deal with all this stress. Not to mention EJ starts school early next year and JW starts 4 y.o kinder... I think i'm gonna be freaked out enough! things we get ourselves into...

Did i mention? Bubs is actually due 2 days after my birthday :) Yeay

I'd do whatever I could to avoid that hospital. His kinda of attitutude is not the energy you need in your birth space. If you're MIL and Partner have the power to affect the outcome of you birth, imagine what this guy could do.

Find a Doula who's experienced in VBAC's and who might have supported some at this particular hospital if changing hospitals is not an option.

Stick with shared care and avoid another encounter with this knOB at all costs.

When labour begins, stay at home AS LONG AS YOU CAN! Honestly, I can't stress how important this is for women wanting a vaginal birth after a casearean. The minute you enter those hospital doors (esp this particular hospital) the odds are against you 10 fold.

I feel sad to say this, but women wanting a VBAC have to be 100% dedicated to wanting it. All it takes is a persuasive person with fancy terminology to turn it all to sh*t.

I wish you all the best of luck and hope that find the support you need...starting at home :)

Good luck!
xx

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I would have asked how he thinks he is going to make you sign the consent form.

Seriously... that's so not cool. No advice, no reasoned discussion, just weiding his title. Bleurgh. Is changing hospitals an option, or homebirth?

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Yep pretty much this. He can say he can "make you" all he likes but the reality is, unless you sign the form Nadda. This goes with anything surgical, even the Epi.

You definatley don't need to deal with that kind of stress, I would be looking at Idependant Midwife, or Birthing Centre or some other Option if you can get into another Hospital who is more reasonable. I really detest Dr's who are like this.

that is disgusting, I am sorry that you had to endure that, I can't believe he didnt even check your BP! go to another hospital, I am having a VBAC at a totally different hospital to where all my history from my own birth to my sons birth is and it hasn't made a difference. I have only seen my DR 2 times and my GP twice and no one seems to think that is bad, I will prob only see them 2 more times before my little one is born. Also consider a student midwife, I have one and she is great and also free ;)

I've been thinking about the "student midwife" thing a bit. Might actually look further into it. Thanks :)

I'm going to ring the other local hospital Monday to see how they react at the thought of it. :P

Thanks again for all the advice guys. I really do want to at least have the "trial of labour" even if I end up with another c-section. Even if it's just to get the good hormones pumping IYKWIM. My mum was shorter than me, and quite stocky, but still managed to push out 4 kids unassisted over 9lbs. So, I'm sure I can!

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My hubby was telling me that he's just thinking of my safety.

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Pfft, sounds to me like he was thinking of ease and time saving for him if he was attending, and covering his a** and the hospitals because it's their policy :rolleyes:

Double post

I don't blame my hubby for freaking out. We almost lost our 2nd at 12 days old and were told at the children's at the time if I had gone natural then we probably would have lost him. He ended up needing open heart surgery for 2 abnormalties that "should have been seen in the ultra sound" but weren't. The debate to actually even try for this baby was 2 years of debating, and freaking out we'd have to go thru it all again. So far so good. We're going thru an ultra sound clinic that picks up more things. So yes, that is always at the very back of my mind. That being said, I'm still preparing myself for vbac. The only thing that will make me change my mind is if anything comes up in the next ultra sound. Only then will I actually back down. I think I just needed to be re-assured that this guy WAS a douche bag and to be honest, know that there are plenty of others that have "been there, done that" and still think it's a goer. Totally loving the support here... Thanks heaps everyone!

penesaar, my last post was referring to the OB not you DH. I thought you meant your DH thought the OB was thinking of your safety. Completely understand your DH worrying about your safety and bub's! Sorry hope I didn't offend you :redface:

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penesaar, my last post was referring to the OB not you DH. I thought you meant your DH thought the OB was thinking of your safety. Completely understand your DH worrying about your safety and bub's! Sorry hope I didn't offend you :redface:

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totally cool.... I understand... I find myself wondering if hubby too wants the "easy way out" sometimes though. :p I think he is a little freaked out about the whole thing.
And stress less... It takes a hell of a lot to actually offend me... ****ing me off is quite easy on the other hand... lol (don't stress.. you didn't do that either!)

Phew! :D

While it is tempting to write this doctor off as totally horrible, he may have been trying to help with the "go to Monash" comment. Monash actually has a more pro-VBAC attitude - so the suggestion to go there is probably a combination of "then we don't have to argue with you" coupled with "you would be more likely to get what you want".
Several of the consulting obstetricians at Monash have a strong interest in reducing the use of CS.

Official southern health VBAC brochure herehttp://www.southernhealth.org.au/icm...nformation.pdf

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While it is tempting to write this doctor off as totally horrible, he may have been trying to help with the "go to Monash" comment. Monash actually has a more pro-VBAC attitude - so the suggestion to go there is probably a combination of "then we don't have to argue with you" coupled with "you would be more likely to get what you want".
Several of the consulting obstetricians at Monash have a strong interest in reducing the use of CS.

Official southern health VBAC brochure herehttp://www.southernhealth.org.au/icm...nformation.pdf

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Thanks Kmn
:)
I have been seriously thinking about swapping... and thanks for finding that pamphlet... I hadn't been able to find it! (and I had been looking!). I'm speaking to my GP on Tuesday.
Thanks again.

I have had a VBA2C in the private hospital in mornington. I know of another lady who has had a VBA2C there after I had mine.
Is going private an option?
Two of the OB's in mornington will support a VBA2C. I also used an independant midwife from Rosebud as extra support at home and in the hospital but she is no longer taking on any clients :( although she actually used to work shifts at the public hospital in frankston and so did her back-up midwife. So you may actually find some support there with the midwives maybe.

I'd like to know how the Ob is actually going to make you have a c/s. If bub is not in distress and you are fine then I say go for it. Find another ob he's a jerk!

i would be asking to see if i can have a different OB as you are not happy with the current.

i had an emeergancy c/s with my first and had a very successful Vbac with my 2nd and hoping for the same with my third..

My OB was very supportive and now im going thru midwives they are highly encourging it.

grrr @ him lol

Huni they cant MAKE You do anything! the decision is yours. They will not CAN not come knocking on your front door with the police to drag you to hospital to cut the baby out of you! You need support, loads of support and an iron will, but you canhave the birth you want!

Well, my GP appt is first thing tomorrow... he's very "natural is better" minded. He's a great doc, so I can always bounce off the stupidest little things, and he tells me his thoughts, explains things so you can understand them. I may get him to write a referral to the other hospital. Not sure either way. Not sure if I should wait til my next ob appt and hope it's someone more understanding, or go for another hospital altogether... As was mentioned before, I cannot choose for sure what day Bubs desides to be born, and if the knOB is the on-call, then I'm screwed... Coz although he can't force me to have a ceaser, he can make me super uncomfortable, which is the opposite of what you want to be while you're labouring, and will eventually put me off my game, and I'll be put thru a ceaser for some other reason (i.e. lack of progress or some crap). Monash is looking better. :P or Dandenong. Again, I'll have to see... Dandenong and Monash are affiliated, they will let me know which best suits my situation. Private is not a possibility. I'm not covered, and don't have the extra money laying around, as much as I'd love to.
K... I'm tired, and talking jibberish it would seem :p

I think i need to go lay down.

Night all

Me.

Good luck tomorrow :goodluck:

So, I saw my GP today...

Poor guy had to take my blood pressure 3 times, telling me to calm down in between each attempt. heh. I may have been a little worked up explaining about the Ob from last week. GP said he didn't sound to considerate, blah blah blah.
In the end, he said if i wanted to change hospitals, it was completely up to me. He also agreed when I pointed out that they can't "make" me have a c-section, they can just strongly advise it, but if i want to go ahead and change to Monash, he'll get it organised. I'm discussing it with Hubby tonight to make the final decision.
Thanks for all the support guys... Hopefully at Monash I'll have a better chance.

:)

Good news :) Hope it all works out for you.

I was in a vaguely similar situation to you in that Frankston told me that if i came in - even in labour - they'd basically refuse to allow me anything other than a c/s. Unless you have been in that situation, it seems like a bizarre and wrong thing for the obs to say/do, but it's very very hard as a patient to change their views.
I spoke at length to midwives and ended up on the phone to two very well known pro-vaginal birth obs in Melbourne. Both were happy to take over my care, however both insisted that i was within 30mins of the hospital at all times. This was unfortunately not possible for me.
Be prepared to keep up the fight - i still think a doula or midwife is a step in the right direction.

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I was in a vaguely similar situation to you in that Frankston told me that if i came in - even in labour - they'd basically refuse to allow me anything other than a c/s. Unless you have been in that situation, it seems like a bizarre and wrong thing for the obs to say/do, but it's very very hard as a patient to change their views.
I spoke at length to midwives and ended up on the phone to two very well known pro-vaginal birth obs in Melbourne. Both were happy to take over my care, however both insisted that i was within 30mins of the hospital at all times. This was unfortunately not possible for me.
Be prepared to keep up the fight - i still think a doula or midwife is a step in the right direction.

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Yep, I think you were the final nail in the coffin so to speak :) I've just requested the change of hospitals and my GP sent the forms thru today. Now just waiting to see if I can get in at Dandenong or Monash. (both affiliated with one another, so it's up to them which I go to. I think Monash is the more High risk one, tho both supposedly have a vbac clinic in their maternity wards? so I've heard any way!). Am hoping for a more positive reception from them!
Thanks for the support once again guys!
:D

Hi Penesaar,

After reading your original post I was quite surprised as i'm going through Frankston myself and have been given the nod to go ahead with a vba2c and the OB I had seen was very encouraging. He did mention to me that about 3-4 OB's out of the 8 that work there would be supportive but the others may not be but if im in full labour and everything is going well he doesnt think that those OB's would send me for a csec straight up unless they had a good reason to do so.

I have a follow up with the Ob at around 34wks to further discuss and make sure everything is still on track.

Dandy does have a VBAC clinic based at Casey Hospital I believe and on the guidelines I had for Monash it does say that they can take on vba2c's but would advise a c/s for vba3c or more. I actually applied for Monash but got turned down as i'm not in the catchment but I suppose if I had a referral from my GP or Frankston then I may be able to get in.

Hannahbanana I think I may have emailed you a few times through a diff website and the OB you had seen at Mornington is also avail to see through Frankston it was on one of my forms I had received from there.

See Silverstar, that's the thing... I remember my ob i had almost every appt. from last time, and he was almost pressuring me to have a vbac.... Maybe I should've taken him up on it, then i'd be having less trouble now! :p

Hope it works out well for you....
Good luck and best wishes..... lots of good vibes sent your way :)

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Hannahbanana I think I may have emailed you a few times through a diff website and the OB you had seen at Mornington is also avail to see through Frankston it was on one of my forms I had received from there.

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Silverstar, when I had my VBA2C my OB was also affiliated with Frankston and had actually written guildelines for the hospital regarding VBAC. I wasn't sure if he still was delivering at Frankston. My IM's also used to work shifts at Frankston, hopefully you they are all on when you go into labour :) I know the other OB that is pro VBA2C in mornington also used to work at the private hospital in Karingal, not sure if he still does. Good Luck!!

Well... I heard from Monash... They've booked me in with an Obs appt but suggested I keep seeing Frankston until then, as I may change my mind, and they can't guarantee that the obs at Monash will be any different. So, while trying to stay positive, I'm praying heaps that the ob I see next at Frankston will be a decent one, and like Silverstar, my experience will be a better one. At least I know that if I do have to go thru with the caeser, that the experience is not as terrible as it could be, and very mother/baby bonding focused at Frankston.

Hi, just saw your post today and couldn't resist jumping in.

I'm also pregnant with my third and will be trying for VBA2C (Sunshine Hospy) I tried VBAC with our second baby, which ended up another CS (but not after a good crack at trying VBAC). I was told at that particular hospital, that if I was to have a third, it would be an elective caesar (hmm, mental note whilst in recovery - "we won't be coming back here then").

I remember all too well the meetings with doctors and the attitude that it would be 'disastrous' to attempt VBAC (and I was low risk/straight forward pregnancy). At no point, did any of the dr's mention the risks of multiple caesars - partiularly on future pregnancies, but focussed on the risks of VBAC. I remember that they gave me a handout on the risks of VBAC and got me to sign my file that they had discussed the risks with me (but nothing about repeat caesar risks).

I always went in feeling confident, only to walk away nearly in tears that they could erode my confidence so totally (and that wasn't even being vulnerable in labour). We enlisted the support of a doula with our VBAC attempt and it was the best thing we did. As it turned out, I just didn't dilate past 3 cms, - which was annoying given I got to 6cm with my first induced labour). I couldn't be induced again after the first caesar. I don't regret trying for VBAC and ending up with another C.S. Like you said, the hormones and contractions are good for mum and bub and I felt like I was involved in birthing our baby. I think it also helps prepare the body for breastfeeding (as this can often be an issue with CS deliveries). We also did some 'Calmbirth' classes and hypno-birthing, which I would highly recommend. If your confidence is already low to birth naturally, these classes will give you some practical strategies to help you through the labour. If cost is an issue, you can sometimes find a practitioner that is starting up and needs to get x number of hours delivering the course, before they're fully accredited. Bit like a student midwive. You'll receive all the same materials and information, but not for the same cost.

From the research, one of the biggest factors in having a successful VBAC is having a supportive team around you (which I'm preety sure doesn not include MIL's), midwives & dr's who believe that you can birth naturally, partner and any other support person such as an independent midwife or doula etc.
If you decide to switch hospitals, you can always request your medical file through Freedom of Information. I did this after my first birth and saw a private obs, just to get a second opinion on trying VBAC. It costs abou $23 per file, plus photocopying and can take a month or two, but they should give you a copy of your file/s.
Apologies that this is a long reply. Yes, the Dr was a complete tosser and you do meet them along the way. You can ask for the hospital's policy on VBAC and check out their success rate, before deciding where you want to birth.
All the best!