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Hi Guys,
I've been working with my LC and I have low milk supply. We have a plan of BF Comping and feeding EBM and pumping with the hopes my supply will pick up in a few weeks.
I can get about 30 - 40mls out when I express which is about half what bubs needs each feed.
Is there anything else I can take to increase my supply? I have bought the Nursing Tea to help.
Thanks!
Have you tried lactation cookies? There's a recipe around BB somewhere, but I'm on my phone so I can't find it for you. They seemed to work pretty well for me, plus they're REALLY yummy :D
Make sure you are drinking enough water and like TB said- try the cookies, they are super yummmmmm my kids stil ask me to make them once aweek just for them to eat :lol:
If AF is coming, that sometimes can decrease you for a few days. keep bub sucking and if you can- express can help build you back up. Hope you can get it back
Fenugreek works well hun. You can buy capsules rather than drinking the tea. My supply wasn't great either but I found with the expressing in between feeds it did boost. It's a pain in the butt to have to express all the time but once it was boosted I had no probs. I think around the 10 week mark things were better and I stopped giving a top up. Good luck, you're doing a great job :)
Yep, the lactation cookies. I started eating them a few days before I had bub and I had sooo much milk compared with my first.
Thanks guys, yep got the lactation cookies recipe going to get the ingredients on the weekend :) The tea isn't too bad just a stong aniseed smell so I hold my nose :lol:
Our feed sessions at the moment are bubs on boob for 10-15mins or as long as it takes for her sucking to stop due to no flow. Then top up with EBM and then formula if needed.
Then pump. Only time I don't pump is the early morning feed, when I'm usually had it and just want to go back to bed, but I make sure I have EBM for that feed. If I am awake though I pump.
I'm happy to do it and even if I can only give her some its better than none! thanks for the information on how long it took for you Babyluv, gives me an idea of how long it might take.
I was also gonna say the cookies and fenurgreek tablets. If you're an Asthamtic, stay away from the fenugreek as I have read some research which suggests it can effect it.
Can I just ask why your comping rather than letter your DD finish the feed?
Only reason I ask is because the more baby stimulation to the breast the better. Pump is better than nothing but the best pump is your baby.
And as the others have said, make sure you're drinking enough water. Its heating up now so you could be getting a bit dry.
Becuase she is finished, I've had the LC check and the flow just stops after about 10 - 15mins and she stops sucking or falls asleep and that is on the left side. On the right the flow is so slow she fusses and again has trouble staying awake. I've had her on for hours in the past, however she is just exhausted and still hungry afterwards.
LC thinks this is the best way forward to increase my supply without compromising my daughters health, and from the turn around I've seen since we have been comping I would have to agree.
But you can still pump afterwards?
Or by afterwards do you mean an hour later or something?
Have you tried burping her at that point or switching sides?
Yep tried all that. Compresssions keeping her awake the works. Even had DD checked to make sure she is suckling properly. It's all me unfortunalty. Yeah by pumping I mean an hour or 2 later not straight away, sorry.
Ahhh ok.
Well fingers crossed something works :)
Keep up the good work Mumma!
x
Congratulations on your little girl!
Sounds like you've had a tricky start to feeding - well done on all your hard work so far!
How often are you feeding now? Does she take both sides each time?
So you feed, top up, then pump an hour or so later (to use for next topup)? Has your LC suggested a supply line to get more milk in while she's at the breast? Another suggestion is doing a topup feed at the breast 30 mins or so after your last feed. More baby time at the breast is more effective stimulation than a pump (but I agree that spendign hours at the breast is not necessarily the best way to do that)
All the best - let us know how you get on
I had low supply with my first and had to comp feed for a few months before getting back to sole breast feeding. I took Motillium, expressed after every feed, topped up. fed whenever bub wanted it.
I also tried the cookies, and took fenugreek and blessed thistle. All this together worked really well. It didn't happen overnight, took about 4 months to get back to a full supply.
With the Motillium, who perscribed it for you? I would be interested in boosting my supply so long as it was ok for bubs
MadB I'm demand feeding now, so between 6 - 8 feeds atm. She does take both sides each time. Yep thats what I'm doing. No she didn't suggest a supply line, what is that? Hmm that might be an idea to put her back on, poor love she loves booby but gets so worn out because the flow stops bah.
Some background is I had to have a Cesearian due to High BP and Cholestasis and bubs was not engaged and it was risky to do an induction (later found out that her cord was really short and wrapped around her neck twice so induction would have resulted in emergancy C/S anyway and that is most likley why she was not engaged too) My milk didn't come in until day 4-5 and it was very low to start with 10mls or something silly? DD loss almost 14% of her body weight and ended up quite jaundice so needed to be comped in hospital to prevent her getting even more dehydrated and unwell. She was also very sleepy due to the jaundice which meant I had to wake to feed. I've been working on my supply ever since then.
Thanks for the help guys. It is hard going but I'm hopeful that I will be able to get my supply going.
You've got a great attitude lolpigs, so with the right support team you should get there :)
Yes, go back to your LC and ask about motillium, it may be appropriate in this instance (and it's quite safe for babies, many mothers use it long term to keep their supply up).
Is your LC an IBCLC? I'm not dissing her as she may well be fantastic, but do consider always getting 2nd opinions - often different LCs will have different ideas about things and it can take 2 or 3 to hit on the right one for you (that was my experience first time round).
A supply line is a thin tube that your LC can help you set up. it attaches to the breast and means your baby can get a topup from EBM or ABM via the tube while she's sucking at the breast. An LC woudl be able to help you with that and determine whether it's appropriate clinically.
I would suggest aiming for 8 feeds at an absolute minimum in 24 hours. 6 really isn't enough for a young baby - I do appreciate it's hard when they're sleepy & jaundiced though, I'm sure you're already trying very hard.
Important question - do you have lots of help and support at home?
I been struggling with a low supply since DD was born (shes now 8.5 weeks old) but we have gotten through and are still breastfeeding. I tried the fenugreek, it wasnt bad but wasnt great. I decided to go with the breastfeeding support tablets which is a combined mix of fenugreek and bless thistle and it seems to be working really well. I found swapping and changing breasts seem to do wonderful things with my supply. So feed on the right, once she started fussing, switch to left, fussing, switch back to right etc. That might help? good luck! your doing a great job :) It all gets so much easier as they grow xx
My GP prescribed it for me. I had to tell him what for as he didn't click with the increased lactation side effect of it at first :) I took 4 tablets a day. Along with 2 capsules of fenugreek and blessed thistle 3 times a day.
I also used a supply line, it was just one of those feeding tubes, one end in the bottle of ebm/formula, the other end into the corner of bubs mouth once he was attached. You can control the flow as well. Hold it higher than your breast to get a faster flow, below your breast to slow the flow so bub has to suck more. This was our method as DS had a weak suck (3 weeks early, c/s). With the supply line, you get the nipple stimulation which will boost your supply. Really worth looking into.
Sounds like you have a great mindset about it all. I won't lie, it was a lot of hard work, long nights, lots of tears but we got it working and was well worth the effort.
My GP prescribed it for me. I had to tell him what for as he didn't click with the increased lactation side effect of it at first :) I took 4 tablets a day. Along with 2 capsules of fenugreek and blessed thistle 3 times a day.
I also used a supply line, it was just one of those feeding tubes, one end in the bottle of ebm/formula, the other end into the corner of bubs mouth once he was attached. You can control the flow as well. Hold it higher than your breast to get a faster flow, below your breast to slow the flow so bub has to suck more. This was our method as DS had a weak suck (3 weeks early, c/s). With the supply line, you get the nipple stimulation which will boost your supply. Really worth looking into.
Sounds like you have a great mindset about it all. I won't lie, it was a lot of hard work, long nights, lots of tears but we got it working and was well worth the effort.
Great thanks Laranna, I'll speak with my GP tomorrow about it I'm going to get my Whooping cough shot. Yes I've spent quite a few nights already in tears about it. If I can just double my supply she can go on boob full time and I think that would be enough to get my supply done. Not so simple haha :)
MadB yes she is, RM IBCLC GradDipCHN so many letters after her name LOL. Yes my husband is home with me till feb and is very supportive. So long as I dont loose my mind. He just tells me not to worry we will deal with the cards we are delt... bless. I think I would have given up already if he hadn't been supporting me and encouraging me to continue.
Yeah I aim for 8 feeds a day, shes waking about every 3 hours or so at the moment and sometimes does 4 and a half over night, so it varies. I just feed her whenever she wants it pretty much.
I'll send her an email now about the supply line and medication. She wanted me to call next week for an update as well so we can keep working on it
lolpigs- congrats on your baby! I had supply issues with my first two babies. I saw an LC also. She suggested switch feeding, ie, 10mins on one side of the breast then 10mins on the other, then 10mins on the other then another 10 on the other, so both sides of the breast twice. This did up my supply a bit but not enough for them to gain weight so we comped with formula also. If you want to chat (or meet up) pm me, happy to chat over a cuppa!
I demand feed this time also, she feeds roughly every 2 1/2 hours, was going to suggest to you, try feeding her like the others say give her a top up before she goes to sleep again, I do this with Miss A at night especially and it really settles her. Also I would wake her after 3 hours to feed her dont let her go longer than that as she needs more feeds my LC says 8-12 feeds for newborn is recommended.
You're doing such an amazing job LP, hang in there. Keep doing what you're doing it will get easier. Xx
My supply dipped at about 9 weeks but my circumstances were a bit different to yours. I went to the GP and asked for motilium. The first GP I saw hadn't heard of this as medication to increase BM supply so she had to consult with another. Then when she wrote out the script she wrote it out for 3 tablets a day. This was not enough for me and from my internet research was a lot less than recommended for BM supply. When my supply didn't increase I saw another GP and he increased my dose to 8 tablets a day, which is more like the recommended dose for BM supply. I then got perhaps about 200mls more milk a day. I've been on motilium for about 6 months now. so, just be aware that not all GPs understand the issues with BM supply and medication dosing. If you do some internet research there is a clinical practice guideline for the Royal Womens Hospital in Melbourne which talks about motilium and dosing. I used this when approaching the second GP...but I think he was more up with it than the first one. From what I read motilium is most successful with women who at one point had a good supply, but it certainly is worth a try and made a significant difference for me.
Good luck, hunnie
Oh good - it does sound like things are well in hand! Hang in there. The first few months are really hard no matter how you feed your baby.
Hi there hun. Firstly well done for getting as far as you have its not an easy job doing feeding top ups and then expressing. Your story sounds quite a bit like mine didn't have the high BP but did have Cholestasis and had to have section at 38 weeks as bub wasn't engaged. We had desperate trouble getting my little man to suckle and this along with issues with pump when I came home meant that, to cut a long story short, my milk supply basically all but disappeared.
Both my LC and my doctor (who is also a LC) got me on the motillium which definitely helped boost my supply. I am pretty sure I started off on 6 tablets a day and gradully if you'll pardon the pun "weaned" down to 1 a day over time. TBH I probably could have stopped taking it way way earlier than I did but it was psychological at that stage lol! My LC also recommended switch feeding 10 mins on one side followed by 10 on the other as a means of stimulation. I was using nipple shields to help DS latch so the supply line wasn't an option for us but have certainly read quite a lot on here at the time that it works.
DS was quite a lazy feeder so we comped a combination of EBM and formula with me expressing like you after each feed. He was quite difficult to read as he would finish on the boob and give no indication that he was still hungry but would then drink the bottle when it was offered. Even the LC couldn't read him! I probably kept that up for 3 months and then decided that I was only going to offer him two top ups a day - one at the later afternoon feed and the other at the dream feed. And guess what - shortly after that he stopped taking any top up at night and would only take a small amt of top up if any in the afternoon. We went on to BF for just over 18 months.
You are doing a great job and you will get there really soon.
Appreciate the support guys, makes it alot easier. Had a rough night :(
Has anyone had soreness around the nipple in the areola? I find it quite painful here when DD latches, my nipple is fine that isn't what is hurting though they are still sensitive from bad attachment in the first few days and having blisters (ouch!) and after a few sucks it stops hurting. I had the LC check my attachement which was good she said.. I've also noticed it gets swollen before a feed.
Now We're 3, sounds exactally like my DD. We have to put her on her tummy, change nappies the works to figure out if she is still hungry, otherwise she will just nap next to me after 10 mins on the boob but actually still be starving! At the moment the most she is doing is 15mins on a side before the flow stops, as does her sucking and she goes to sleep. I do compressions the whole time to help the flow now I know that it is slow. I do worry about nipple confusion but she needs to eat. If I don't hear from my LC from the email I will call and discuss a supply line.
I have hope that I can increase my supply. I will talk to my GP today about the medications.
Lolpigs it could be an attachment issue, or perhaps ducts not being emptied properly. Really hard to say over the internet. I know I get a bit lumpy and swollen around the areola if it's been longer between feeds. Another possibility is thrush - not uncommon if either of you have been on antibiotics.
If you press her palm gently and release (repeat movement) with your thumb, this aparently helps them with sucking. Keeping her awake will help her to get a good feed. Try rubbing her feet, her cheek, taking a sock off and on- movement of some sort usually helps them to keep awake enough to feed. Its a common problem- milk drunk :lol:
Hope you can sort out the pain. Suction is normally the best waY to increase supply- increased demand :) Its a nerve racking time, sound like you are doing well hun
Well, spoke with my GP who gave me the Motilium 3 tablets a day.
However now she is refusing the breast :( She was fussing and crying each time we went to feed, but first morning feed today she flat out refused. I tried everything I could think of to get her to latch and she just would not. I'm going to give it a break till this afternoon and pump in the meantime and try again after some skin to skin.
I have to wait until monday to talk to my LC, however I am thinking I might ask about Nipple shields. Now you mention it MadB she seems to slip alot on the breast even if I hold her perfectly still, and this might be causing my nipple issues. It might also be causing her frustration about not being able to feed, and possibly even my low supply but who knows. I also have really large breasts and she is quite small. Perhaps her mouth isn't big enough yet?
Has anyone had any success with these? I've heard so many conflicting things about them how bad they are but if it gets us going again I'll be happier. The pead did mention she didn't appear to be tounge tied at the inital check up in hospital but I do know she just does not want to open her mouth wide enough. 85% of the time she wont and we have to wait, and then she gets frustraed and cries but won't open her mouth still even with teasing. She does the same thing with the bottle. Could she just be lazy or have an issue? I have tried BLA however she gets to my nipple and the same thing happens tries to attach cries and gets frustrated :shakehead:
Thanks guys, rough night too with gas pains and being unsettled.
Remember you can always call the ABA for support & advice also - 1800-686-2-686
You can try a shield, sometimes it helps to get help with sizing & getting them on. Also different mums find different shields work better for them (I tried avent & medela, and the medela ones were much better for me, for eg). There are also certain tricks that mums with large breasts find helpful - maybe ask here specifically, also the ABA can probably give you some tips to try.
Do you wear your baby at all? A sling or carrier can be extremely handy with a little baby. Also lying down in bed together to feed & rest - it's convenient multitasking. Just having some nice snuggle time without the pressure of trying to feed can help to overcome refusal sometimes.
At this stage it's most important to get milk in baby (even with intermediaries like bottles & nipple shields). Even if she's refusing and fussing now, doesn't mean you can't fix that later.
Thanks Madb, I did get her back on the breast for 5mins just now which was good. Used the C hold recommended by ABA which was alot easier seemed to help her get way more into her mouth. Small win!. Skin to skin time seems to trigger her to try to latch so I try to do that every feed.
She got a wet nappy every feed and did 2 dirty ones today so far, she seems to go a few days in between those atm but they are the right color and consitancy so I am happy. The LC weight her on wednesday and she has put on 125g so at least that is going well.
I dont have a carrier, but I try to spend alot of my time resting on the couch with her on me anyway, thanks to the C/S I just had I can't due huge amounts so that is nice time. She slept a few hours on me yesturday :)
I did send ABA an email and have been talking with one of the counsellors there about it. We will get there, just as well I have 12mths off :lol:
Thanks for the help guys.
Oh good, she's doing well. Of course, with the c/s carrying will be tricky at first! They were very handy though, so you might want to consider investing in one for a little later. Very important that you're getting lots of rest too.
Skin-to-skin is definitely a trigger, you're right on the money there.
We just had a feed and no bottle! She just went to sleep afterwards after I popped her off becuase she was asleep and she just stayed asleep and has been asleep for awhile now.
Perhaps a corner turned? We are still having attachment issues, she is definatley slipping off the left side, I dont really know how to stop it. I might use under the arm that side and foot ball the other side and hopefully I will get some reprieve from these sore nipples >.<
Thanks for the support guys, even if we can cut down the comp feeding with the hops of weaning off it entirely I will be happy.
Edit: lol shes awake again little pest ;)
Have you tried feeding with you and her both lying on your sides - I found it far and away the easiest with a little floppy baby and boobs that were bigger than he was!
Glad you have sorted a few things. Try relax and just take it a feed at a time. Baby doesnt think- it didnt work last time so this time will be bad too- baby just goes YUM mummys milk :lol: Good on you for persisting you are doing so well :hug:
Wew we had a second feed and no bottle :D Shes sleeping again now. Took both sides and latching was better /dances :dance:
No I will try lying down next feed. Thanks for the suggestion :)
I will keep taking the medication and nursing tea just to make sure its not a fluke, perhaps my boobs are finally getting the Idea? I really can't believe it never thought it would happen. I haven't had to pump all afternoon becuase shes waking every 2 hours for a feed. I don't think I would need to keep pumping in between that do I? It is the first time in almost 2 weeks of not being chained to a pump and it has been really relaxing!
If she's feeding every couple of hours I wouldn't pump on top of that. I would only pump if she refuses.
oh that's great! feeding 2 hourly is much better than pumping so let that go if you can.
It sounds like the two of you are getting there! :leap:
Lying down feeding is awesome, lovely for Mum and bub. You can put a face washer under baby's head if you need to make it a bit higher (and it will catch any drips).
Not sure if you are allowed baths after a c section, but when you are they are really good if bub is unsettled or has a bit of breast refusal. Jump in the bath with bub and have cuddles and often they will snuggle in and have a feed and also calm down.
Well done Hun on persevering sounds like you are getting there.
We used the nipple shields up until DS was 5 month or so. Just worked better for us for getting him to latch on. My LC would try to get me to slip it off half way through a feed once he had got the hang of things but looking back I probably wasn't that game to try - hell it had been difficult enough to get him to feed why was I going to risk not being able to get him back on lol! I'm trying to think now how we ended up stopping using them and think it was just that his mouth eventually grew into the size of my nipples and eventually got the hang of it. Once on wasn't a drama though minor pia making sure they were in place before I attached him. I used the medela ones as these were the ones recommended by my LC.
Lying down never worked for us but there are heaps of comments / possibly threads on here about how good being able to feed like that was. Was very envious reading about those who could feed that way as would have been a lovely way to while away the day!
Yeah for the feeds without the bottle - all your hard work is paying off! :leap: Bit by bit you will get there and you know what even if you don't and you end up comp feeding in additional to BFs so what! She will get all your special Mummy milk and then a little bit extra if she needs it from elsewhere. MadBs advice is good. Call ABA when you are feeling down and stressed about what is happening. There are wonderful women at the end of the phone who are there to listen and give advice and suggestions on what can help. Sometimes that is what we need when it all gets too much.
:hug: you are doing a wonderful job
Well most of the feeds today she settled after. Except the 12:30 feed, she was cluster feeding all evening and at the 12:30 feed she was really hungry so my husband gave her formula. It irritated me to do it but she wasn't settling and seem really hungry.
Least we made some progress today, fingers crossed for tomorrow.
Thanks for the kind words :hug: appreciate it.