It is just not fair..

..that doctors hear "breech" and immediately throw a c-section in your face without so much as a second glance. As I approach birth I feel like I am being robbed of something beautiful. With DD1 my labor went so smoothly and beautiful..I was actually anticipating this birth. How can it be fair that NO doctor over here will let me deliver my baby breech? she is even in an amazing position breech wise. I am having such a hard time accepting this and worry that I will develop PPD after birth because of this. I am also worried that breastfeeding will fail...

I am obviously past the point of no return..but I really wish I could see the positive within this..

Everyime I hear someone go into labor I feel so jealous. When I go into labor I will be having a surgery..not giving birth. My hospital wont even let me have skin to skin until I get into recovery. UGH

Hi....I just read this and had to reply. Have you heard of a film 'A Breech In The System' it's about a woman in Byron who was pregnant with a breech baby and no-one wanted to allow her to try and labour. This film follows her journey and the ending, (which I won't ruin in case you are going to watch it... let me know if you aren't and I can tell you) is so profound I cry every. Single. Time I watch it!!!! If you are wanting to know your options I highly highly recommend this film, perhaps you will end up with a caeser, but let it be your choice that you came to yourself through research and information as opposed to feeling like you have no freedom and are backed into a corner. Go well x

Have you tried acupuncture to get her to turn? It's not too late yet.

:hug: I hope you get the beautiful you want.

Have you also checked out the site Spinning Babies?

If you haven't already, arm yourself with all the knowledge you can & try whatever you can to get her to turn.

Sending you loads of hugs & spinning vibes :hug:

*double post*

Honey, c/s mothers still gave birth. I define birth as the passage of a baby through an opening in the mother's body- ending with separation of baby from mother. Your little one is going to make her entry via the sunroof. It's not ideal, and it's not what you want (or what I wanted). But it is what it is.

You are no less a mother for having a c/s. But I do understand the feeling of being robbed of a vaginal delivery. I feel it too. :hug:

Any chance you can homebirth? Or find another doctor/hospital? Any chance you can get to Ina May's Farm for birth?

Let's face it, the baby is breech if it comes out the vagina or the sunroof, so I never understand the rush to c/s. but then we had a vaginal breech with DS1. The most important thing is "hands off the breech". With us, the OB didnt touch the baby until he was all out. Just wiped away gunk. She may have slightly helped him turn.

I realise with a bicornate uterus, bub may not turn. I suggest you find somewhere else to birth, or start reading empowering c/s stories and start arming yourself with information so you can get a better birth.

TM I know this is easy for me to say as my baby is not breech but a CS does not necessarily inhibit breastfeeding. You can also request to have skin on skin contact after a C section. The midwife will probably say this will depend on the circumstances but you can emphasise this and have it recorded at your hospital and also mention to any OBs, doulas etc involved in your birth. My yoga instructor actually told me this - most mothers assume they will miss out on skin on skin with a CS and many hospitals do not offer it automatically but it is your right to request this, excepting an emergency etc.

I also totally agree with forshelby - a CS is still a valid form of giving birth. Try not to feel guilty or let down if you do have one. You have still grown and protected your baby for the all important nine months and you have still managed to safely bring her into the world following that nine months. This is an enormous achievement and the product of months of hard work on your behalf. x

Having a C section is giving birth.

Please don't fear them. A c section saved my life and Amelia's. Had I not had it, we both wouldn't be alive today.

Hun, trust in the drs. They know what they are talking about.

PND is a LOT better than having a dead baby in my eyes and if they leave her in if she can't turn herself or she gets majorly distressed during natural labour because she can't get out, then it may end up that way.

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Babies can turn at the last minute. Thats what happened to me. I had a little munchkin that loved flipping in and out of breech on me. My Ob and i decided we would wait and see how she presented on her birthday, if she was breech and it was going to be dangerous we would go straight to theatre, if she wasnt breech we would go with the flow. 3am the morning i was to go in to have her, she wakes me with the biggest movement i ever felt. Got to the hospital to find out she was out of breech and that big movement would have been her flipping out of breech because i know she was breech the day before. So hope is not lost, im not saying your baby will turn out of breech but there are things you can try to see if it might. You have rights too, if you want to trial a vaginal birth with a breech baby then your caregivers need to listen to you and work with you to figure out some form of action plan. Please dont give up hope yet, knowledge is power, arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can..........research, research research.

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Babies can turn at the last minute. Thats what happened to me. I had a little munchkin that loved flipping in and out of breech on me. My Ob and i decided we would wait and see how she presented on her birthday, if she was breech and it was going to be dangerous we would go straight to theatre, if she wasnt breech we would go with the flow. 3am the morning i was to go in to have her, she wakes me with the biggest movement i ever felt. Got to the hospital to find out she was out of breech and that big movement would have been her flipping out of breech because i know she was breech the day before. So hope is not lost, im not saying your baby will turn out of breech but there are things you can try to see if it might. You have rights too, if you want to trial a vaginal birth with a breech baby then your caregivers need to listen to you and work with you to figure out some form of action plan. Please dont give up hope yet, knowledge is power, arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can..........research, research research.

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Yes, could you labour at home for a good while and wait to see if bubs might turn last minute? No one can make you go to hospital.

thats what the film i spoke about is about. a woman waiting with contractions at home until it was 'too late' to go to theatre when she got to hospital, with a brilliant safe outcome. she was armed with advice and research and got the birth she had wanted!

Both mine turned after 37 weeks (close to 38) so don't rule it out just yet.

Fwiw, I don't feel any different towards "birthing" my babies - I've had 4 births - 2 sections, 2 vb's. Regardless of how they exited, I still gave birth :hug:

Well, there's still time for bubs to turn, fingers crossed. If she doesn't... I know a CS isn't necessarily desirable, but you know, mine wasn't as awful as I thought it would be either.

And FWIW, I had one CS & three vaginal births, and my CS baby was the only one that breastfed for any decent length of time. Go figure :p

I had a beautiful experience with my second, and wanted to repeat that so much. It didn't happen... I got a CS with my third and my VBAC was rather underwhelming (compared to my second labour). My point being, you can't plan for what you're going to get. Go in planning for the best & prepared for anything. Fingers crossed for you :hug:

FX your bubba turns and you get the birth you want :)

You've had some great advice already, so I'm just giving more best wishes baby turns, or you find an alternative.

I know sections save lives, but an elective c section due to breech presentation in this instance has more to do with obstetric risk management, politics and insurance companies than best outcomes for mum/baby (in this example, where mum has had previous labour, baby is well position and mother desires vaginal birth).

Pnd can lead to suicide for some women, so I don't think its seriousness should be downplayed (if that is a major concern)

Is there really no obstetrician who will even let you labour?

I really wouldn't advise you to stay home until its to late to c/s. The consequences of that could lead to a lifetime of regret. The most important thing is the safety of the baby.

I agree you might benefit from hearing some empowering c/s stories and getting your support in place and your mind ready.

Researching successful breech births is fine of course, as long as your willing to research the ones that went wrong also. Arm yourself with knowledge from both sides itms.

Best of luck

Honestly hun, breech vaginal births are rarely practised these days. would you rather a skilled obstetrician preform a csection that theyve done 1000 times before to get your baby here the safest way that they know how or let you attmept a VB and not know what to do if something went wrong?

Its all well and good to say oh but noone will let me, its not that they dont want you to, its because they just havent had the practice in the situation.
At the end of the day, so long as your baby gets here safely, what does it matter how it gets here? you will have gotten something that some of us can only dream about, a take home baby.

You are fortunate, you know its most likely going to happen, you have to time prepare and arm yourself with knowledge, and knowledge is power.

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Having a C section is giving birth.

Please don't fear them. A c section saved my life and Amelia's. Had I not had it, we both wouldn't be alive today.

Hun, trust in the drs. They know what they are talking about.

PND is a LOT better than having a dead baby in my eyes and if they leave her in if she can't turn herself or she gets majorly distressed during natural labour because she can't get out, then it may end up that way.

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With the greatest of respect LysnDan, the situation the OP is talking about is not the life or death scenario I know you were faced with only a few weeks ago. There is no evidence that vaginal breech birth with a practitioner who knows what they are doing, and with a healthy term infant, is any riskier than a CS. The original study that suggested a risk was highly flawed and no subsequent studies have mirrored the results. The issue here is the absence of a skilled practitioner and I think the OP is justified in feeling upset at that issue. PND is not a small issue and for some women it sadly does become a life or death issue.

To the OP, have a look at the spinning babies website and try some of their techniques. They can be incredibly effective and your baby has time to turn. If you shop around you may find an OB or midwife who is comfortable with a vaginal breech birth. Remember nobody can force you to have a CS so take the time to discuss your options with your care provider. If you make an informed decision to accept a CS rather than feeling forced into it then you may find the risk of PND is much lower. Also speak to the ABA about breastfeeding after a CS. It can be trickier, but it is far from impossible and I'm sure there are lots of ladies on here who can share their positive CS and breastfeeding stories to help you prepare. Good luck with your planning :)

My DD was breech and was born by 'elective' cs. I have the most amazing memory of breastfeeding her while they were wheeling me down the hallway from recovery. It can be done honey and I wish you all the best for the birth of your little one.

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With the greatest of respect LysnDan, the situation the OP is talking about is not the life or death scenario I know you were faced with only a few weeks ago. There is no evidence that vaginal breech birth with a practitioner who knows what they are doing, and with a healthy term infant, is any riskier than a CS. The original study that suggested a risk was highly flawed and no subsequent studies have mirrored the results. The issue here is the absence of a skilled practitioner and I think the OP is justified in feeling upset at that issue. PND is not a small issue and for some women it sadly does become a life or death issue.

To the OP, have a look at the spinning babies website and try some of their techniques. They can be incredibly effective and your baby has time to turn. If you shop around you may find an OB or midwife who is comfortable with a vaginal breech birth. Remember nobody can force you to have a CS so take the time to discuss your options with your care provider. If you make an informed decision to accept a CS rather than feeling forced into it then you may find the risk of PND is much lower. Also speak to the ABA about breastfeeding after a CS. It can be trickier, but it is far from impossible and I'm sure there are lots of ladies on here who can share their positive CS and breastfeeding stories to help you prepare. Good luck with your planning :)

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I'm sorry - I wasn't going to post anything in here but I find that highly insensitive of you to say that to Lysndan. The OPs birth COULD turn out to be 'life or death' so she's giving her side. But that's just me. :dunno:

FWIW, and my 2 cents - It doesn't matter how baby comes out, c-section or natural vaginal birth, as long as the child comes out healthy and alive, shouldn't that be what matters?
With DS I had an emergency c-section, almost losing him twice in the process. No, he wasn't breech, but in severe distress because I failed to progress in dilation. Had I not had the c-section, I wouldn't have found out that it'd be practically impossible for me to give birth naturally and my son wouldn't be alive now had I said no to the c-section

I was just giving my side. As DarkDreamer said, if she doesn't end up progressing in labour it can become dangerous, can it not?...

And I have PND and PTSD. And I know for a fact its not easy with them. But it is better than not being here for my little girl if I didn't have my c section. Iykwim. I am getting treatment for them both. There's no 'treatment' for death...

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Ladies- To ALL of your advice I am extremely greatful for. Know that in no shape or form am I "dissing" c-sections or "downplaying" PND. For me, this is simply my way of saying how unfair it feels that you can have a completely healthy pregnancy/baby and still am FORCED into having a c-section. Over here is the U.S. they won't even give me an ECV due to my bicornuate uterus. To top THAT off the liklihood of an OB/Midwife letting me have a VBAC with my bicornuate uterus isn't going to happen. So from hear on out it will be c-sections for me. I think I have RIGHT to be upset about that. If my baby WAS in a life or death situation you better believe c-section would not bother me. I could labor at home but I chose not too because I dont want to risk it. I have done spinningbabies excersises for months...this adorable little one is NOT turning. She hasn't budged out of this breech position EVER.

So once again, just know that this is my way of saying how I feel as a woman who feels like she lost something..because I did...and it DOES suck. America is not pro-natural births. and the moment a doctor hears about any complication they dont even blink before they shove a c-section down your throat. I just like all of you..have a RIGHT to want to feel the experience of a vaginal birth with all my babies...and since I obviously dont get a choice I was simply venting.

Maybe some people didn't know you are in America? I don't know. But I am sorry. It IS unfair the way the birth culture is there, it IS unfair that you completely lose your autonomy and it IS unfair that you are being treated as nothing more than an incubator and vessel for your baby's arrival. The lowest of low standards, "a healthy mother and baby" should so not be the most important thing in the modern developed world, it should be a given. What a dismal outcome to aim for and label as 'best' :( Unfortunately, as you are probably acutely aware, finding a midwife or OB (everyone pretty much sees OBs, don't they?) who is at least pro-natural birth, let alone willing to be informed and educated about any other type of birth than a vacuum extraction after induction in the lithotomy position with an epidural is no easy task. Breech birth is attainable, but not without the resources :( A PP mentioned something important: would you want a breech birth with a doctor who is badly educated on the matter. Seeing as most OBs over there (and here too, but to a lesser extent) see breech birth as inherently dangerous and an automatic reason for an (unnecessary, but often labelled 'emergency') csection, I don't like the chances. My only advice is to not give up hope :hug: Keep up with the spinning babies, get acupuncture, try moxa sticks. Do EVERYTHING in your power to encourage your baby to turn. Do it peacefully and try to eliminate the stress of the situation. One of my belly buddies, Liz, had a very stubborn baby that had trouble turning...she did turn eventually. The other thing I would suggest is do not let them book your section until you are 41 weeks overdue. I'd say longer but ha, as you and I know you've got a big fight for that in the US. Make it as late as possible. That way, you give yourself the most time possible to let your baby turn. How were your other labours, time wise? If you think you might have a good few hours of early labour in the bag, letting yourself labour at home mY help baby turn too. They can still turn late.

Huge :hug: You were venting for a valid reason. I can't think of anything worse than feeling like you have this sentence for an unnecessary surgery hanging over you, all because of the backwards attitudes of your healthcare providers :(

ETA: my post is not intended as a kick in the teeth to anyone, just so that's clear. I was just surprised there weren't more validating posts for the OP.

Hun try and get your hands on a cpoy of more business of being born (the ricky lake one) there a section based on vbacs where the ob talks about insurances ect and how she'd like to do them but the risk to her loosing her job and facing massive payouts just isnt worth it. i would guess that it would be the same in regards to breech births.
its unfortunate u are in a country where the professionals have their hands tied because of things like insurance

PZ- thank you..that was very nice to hear :) and it is exactly how I feel. I am not a doctor and obviously I can't do anything about it..but I still want to "mourn" the feeling. My first birth with DD1 was beautiful. Water broke at midnight and she came out after 5 pushes at 11:02am :) Minimal tearing. I loved that feeling of accomplishment I got afterwards and loved telling her labor story to anyone who would listen. I am certain when baby gets here all I will care about is being with her..but I do indeed have a right to mourn the losss of being able to birth vaginally again. :(

In regards to PND..about a year ago I had depression. It went on for 2 years and started from severe anxiety which started after the birth of my DD1. I went to therapy for a long time and can finally say I am in an amazing place and am no longer depressed. My fear is simply due to the fact that I do NOT want to go back and Im aware that my feelings towards this birth can make that happen.

You have every right to feel ripped off and mourn the fact that you face the likelihood of not getting a vaginal birth, it's incredibly important that you do so IMO. It's also good to be aware that you may be at risk of relapsing into depression, learn the signs so that if you feel as though you are slipping, you can jump on top of it straight away.

I wish you luck and hope that bub turns and you get your VB :hug:

You know when I had DD1 via emergency c/s and it was a horribly traumatic birth. I had so many people say that having a healthy baby was the most important thing, but everyone forgot to look at me and see how much I was suffering. I wanted a healthy baby of course, but I could not think of that during that time. I had to grieve the birth I dreamed of, and I had to do it in order to look past that birth and see my beautiful child. That I loved her unconditionally was a given, this had nothing to do with the love I felt for her. I get you, I understand what you are going through. When I had DD2 I had to grieve my first birth again in order to face my second. It was like reliving it. I think writing our your hurts and pain regarding birth with help you heal and move towards a birth you want.

I would also write a c/s birth plan. Including lighting once baby arrives, skin to skin, manipulation of baby whilst birthing... the OB can put pressure on the baby similar to going through the birth canal. If the OB will not do it, you can go to an osteopath or get one to come to hospital to help the baby. There are some awesome results you can get that way. I would research gentle c/s techniques. They are out there, and if you give your OB the information you find and the hospital staff, you may find a way to have an empowered c/s. Take the power back and be in control... xoxoxo

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Maybe some people didn't know you are in America? I don't know. But I am sorry. It IS unfair the way the birth culture is there, it IS unfair that you completely lose your autonomy and it IS unfair that you are being treated as nothing more than an incubator and vessel for your baby's arrival. The lowest of low standards, "a healthy mother and baby" should so not be the most important thing in the modern developed world, it should be a given. What a dismal outcome to aim for and label as 'best' :( Unfortunately, as you are probably acutely aware, finding a midwife or OB (everyone pretty much sees OBs, don't they?) who is at least pro-natural birth, let alone willing to be informed and educated about any other type of birth than a vacuum extraction after induction in the lithotomy position with an epidural is no easy task. Breech birth is attainable, but not without the resources :( A PP mentioned something important: would you want a breech birth with a doctor who is badly educated on the matter. Seeing as most OBs over there (and here too, but to a lesser extent) see breech birth as inherently dangerous and an automatic reason for an (unnecessary, but often labelled 'emergency') csection, I don't like the chances. My only advice is to not give up hope :hug: Keep up with the spinning babies, get acupuncture, try moxa sticks. Do EVERYTHING in your power to encourage your baby to turn. Do it peacefully and try to eliminate the stress of the situation. One of my belly buddies, Liz, had a very stubborn baby that had trouble turning...she did turn eventually. The other thing I would suggest is do not let them book your section until you are 41 weeks overdue. I'd say longer but ha, as you and I know you've got a big fight for that in the US. Make it as late as possible. That way, you give yourself the most time possible to let your baby turn. How were your other labours, time wise? If you think you might have a good few hours of early labour in the bag, letting yourself labour at home mY help baby turn too. They can still turn late.

Huge :hug: You were venting for a valid reason. I can't think of anything worse than feeling like you have this sentence for an unnecessary surgery hanging over you, all because of the backwards attitudes of your healthcare providers :(

ETA: my post is not intended as a kick in the teeth to anyone, just so that's clear. I was just surprised there weren't more validating posts for the OP.

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Well that's just the best response I've read in a long time!!!!

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as long as the child comes out healthy and alive, shouldn't that be what matters?

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Yes..................................it's very important.... BUT..... I'd like to gently add that it's not the only thing that matters. I of all people know how damaging disregard for a mother's wishes / emotional wellbeing can be. Some drs can't see past the baby enough to realise the mother is a human being, and more than an incubator.

The Mrs - I completely understand your feelings about this c/s being uneccesary. I have the same feelings about my own birth. Healthy pregnancy, very overdue, induction of labour, lots of interventions, 'failure to progress' and bingo, c/s. On some level, as soon as IOL was mentioned, I knew I was going to get the slice n dice special. I just couldn't see it ending well. Maybe it's a case of 'what I fear, I create'. Either way, I fully support your right to be upset at being robbed not only of one VB, but of any future natural births you may have had. :hug: FWIW I've also been told by a rather ill-informed OB that I will never have a vaginal delivery. He based this on nothing. No tests, measurements etc were performed.... and yet he is of the opinion that DS's head was too big for my pelvis. Forget the fact that his head was IN MY PELVIS when they cut me open. My OB reckons he can see into the future apparently.... as he thinks my next baby will also be too big for me. I've disregarded what he's said, as this is all just his skewed opinion. And he's oldschool. And I don't like him at all.

Sorry for rambling. I get a bit worked up when c/s is mentioned sometimes! :hug: I hope you can find a way to get your natural birth, but if not.. please do some research and arm yourself with knowledge (hence power) for your c/s. It doesn't have to be the end of the world, but I admit it does and will suck for a while afterwards when it's not what you want.

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...Over here is the U.S. they won't even give me an ECV due to my bicornuate uterus. To top THAT off the liklihood of an OB/Midwife letting me have a VBAC with my bicornuate uterus isn't going to happen. So from hear on out it will be c-sections for me. I think I have RIGHT to be upset about that. If my baby WAS in a life or death situation you better believe c-section would not bother me. I could labor at home but I chose not too because I dont want to risk it. I have done spinningbabies excersises for months...this adorable little one is NOT turning. She hasn't budged out of this breech position EVER...

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Can I just say - I could have written the exact same thing above about a good friend of mine, here in Melbourne Aus. Including bicornuate uterus and refusing to try ECV on her. So it is not just the US Obs that feel that way, the ones over here feel the same. And my friend was a public patient at the Royal Women's Hospital, so while she didn't have a private Obs prodding her down the c/s path, she had MWs and Ob registrars saying that it was most likely going to be a c/s. They said she could go into labour naturally, but if bubs didn't turn, she'd be straight for a c/s.

And that's what happened.

:hug: I'm sorry you are feeling this way. Christy makes some good points about researching and taking back the power. Go for it.

Mrs- Not sure if this interests you at all, but there is some evidence that consuming the placenta after birth can help with depression. There are many ways that it can be consumed, including having it dried and made into capsules.

:hug: I'm sorry that your plan for a vaginal birth doesn't look like it can happen. Definitely have a think about the aspects of a c section that you can control and make them how you want them to be.

take care,

I really feel for you, hun, and you have every right to mourn the loss of your birth (potentially).

I hope you can buy the time you need and that this baby turns at the last minute.

Otherwise, I hope you can find a way to take some control of your birth, however it happens.

I have had both forms of birth and did not feel unempowered by the c/s, but I did not know what I missed. You know, having been there before. :hug: That must make it harder. I understand a little better now.