Eliminating preservatives etc for better sleep

Hope this is the right spot - there are a few options so I've picked this one!

Basically, I've been lazy with my diet. I'm usually not too bad, but life has been really up in the air and it's been far too easy to just grab junk food quickly. I need to fix this for me, because I'd like to be healthier and fitter, but also for DD because I realise what I eat, she eats.

I'm also wondering if my poor diet contributes to DD's poor sleep. It's not all that bad right now, up three or four times a night and usually two naps up to an hour long during the day. But sometimes it's truly awful - up every hour - and sometimes it's fantastic. I can't ever remember what I ate on those days though, and if it could have contributed.

So, I figure just fixing my diet will be a good thing anyway, and if it helps with sleep then that's a bonus! But what should I aim for? Do I just go for generally healthy food, like fruit and veg? Only organic? Do I have to be careful of absolutely everything that comes pre-packaged? Do I have to be careful when I'm baking and cooking, could the ingredients include baddies too?

Any tips would be appreciated :)

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My gosh i could have just written that post!!!! The exact same things are going through my mind right now, weight loss (or watching it better), just wanting to be more aware about what i'm really putting in my mouth (and my whole families) and hoping for better sleep, for me and DD :pray:

I just don't know where to begin, there is so much out there to contend with in the way of nasties that they put in our food. How do i really know these things are affecting us anyway? Even the health food aisle seems to have all the hidden no no's (220). I've been trying to have a read of Sue Dengates website (thanks Willow5 ;)) and it's great, it's just a little over whelming though too. To take such a big step in changing our diet is a little scary.

I'd suggest you had a read and then you could decide for yourself where you want to go with it. Lots of interesting reading throughout the whole site.

My impression was that Aldi was supposedly all preservitive and additive free but i've been checking everything lately with my 'little book' and it's not. How good would it be to shop somewhere where they have checked everything out for us?!

Bread can be a real nasty and they are saying that Bakers Delight, Brumby's etc are the best way to go. Doesn't have 282 in it.

Some fruits are known to have natural preservitives that can be trouble makers.

I am no expert i'm trying to learn and get my head around the do's and don'ts.

Have to go clean up after dinner but i'll be back if i think of anything else.

Exactly EJ! How do I know what is and isn't causing problems, and if these things cause problems for so many people (and aren't really good for anyone anyway) then why the heck are they in so much of our food?? Sometimes it just feels like the only way to be certain is to just grow my own food lol.

I'll look up that site, thanks :) Just Googling Sue Dengate should work right?

We have always eaten healthily so the next step for us was to eliminate the hidden baddies in breads and every day foods. If you haven't been eating that well then going for more wholesome foods is a great start. Go for foods that have had the least handling such as fruits, veg, whole grains etc. Cut out sugary, salty treats and substitute with fruits and nuts etc. I recently got an app called the chemical maze, it tells me' what affect those baddies have on the body and because I know what they can do I try my best to avoid them. Good work on wanting to be healthier Hun and good luck. I hope you see a change :)

Oh and I noticed a loaf of bread I got from Aldi the other day didn't have 202 or 282 in it. It was grainy and was really nice actually. Alot of those nasties can really affect sleep, cause headaches, mood swings and gastrointestinal issues. It's shocking. My app also tells me' that alot of the nasties in our everyday foods are banned in infant foods.
I have found it a little overwhelming but once you know what brands don't have the colours, flavours and preservatives in them then it's easy. It's just that initial time it takes to figure that out that's a pita.

speaking to a dietician might help perhaps when eliminating things?
good luck

Yep googling Sue Dengate should bring up what you want.

Babyluv i think Aldi are definately on the right track but i dont' think they are 100% free yet. I made dinner tonight with a pasta bake sauce and it had 220 in it plus quite a few others that were not good. But some biscuits i buy the kids are all good. The Chemical Maze is the book i have :)

Kaytee it's about emilinating things and i get the feeling it'll be a really long process, it could mean really bland and boring meals and a lot of discipline. I think it comes down to how dire the situation is and how much you would benefit from it as to how seriously you take it on. Growing your own or going organic could be the way to go, it's just that it can get pricy and difficult to source. Unfortuatley we don't have many orgainic farmers markets around here apart from the supermarket organic range.

And as MadB says it is reccommened that you do the serious elimiation process with a dieticians guidance.

ETA: Just for a couple of examples: I bought some well known icy poles as a treat at my DD's bday party last year, they were not my normal choice but you got more in the packet so i thought i'd go with them this once. So on a seperate occasion i gave my boys one before bed (bad idea i know) as DS2 some how got a blood lip, didn't see the cause but i assume it had something to do with DS1's foot :rolleyes:. I tried to get DS2 to suck on a cold facewasher but he wouldn't so i thought next best thing... an icy pole. DS1 chose a pink one. Twice through the night he was up with nightmares. One of the times he was crying out really distrught which is really unlike him. Occasionly he'll come down to us saying he'd had a bad dream but he's never upset. I blame the icy pole %100.

Another occasion on christmas eve i allowed my kids to have some lemonade (cheap supermarket brand, a special treat), i figure lemonade was the better choice but they went crazy. Jumping on the couch, throwing the cushions off, loud and silly, and not listening to a word we said. Maybe usual kid behavior but again i blame the outburst on the lemonade, they are not normally so silly. Dh and i checked out the numbers with my book that night and i tipped the remainder of the drink downt he sink.

Meals without additives don't have to be bland and boring. If you use herbs and spices etc things can be quite tasty :) I think we've been conditioned to be overpowered with favors so when we break from eating that kind of stuff it can be a bit of a shock, but it won't take long before you realize how bad they are if you break the diet.

I have become very bad with the diet these holidays due to moving house and we are noticing the kids are more irritable and I'm waking up very thirsty during the night due to too much MSG and 220 in stuff.

I think you're right Raven, we get so used to the overloaded flavours in processed food, that when we go back to 'real' food and natural ingredients it can taste a little boring. However, when I do cook (just a matter of finding/making time) I'm only using natural foods with no additives, and we have a good spice rack :)

Thanks for the info EJ & Babyluv - that app sounds great, but it looks like it may be Apple only, I didn't find it on Android. I did get one called What Additives, but I'm a little suss about it's accuracy - for 202 & 282 it says safe for kids, no known adverse effects (although it does say 282 may cause migraines). For 621 (MSG) it says glutamates are not permitted for children under 12 weeks, no known adverse effects but some concerns. I thought this was one of the big nasties? The app makes it seem alright. And the Sue Dengate website looks great - a lot of info to sort through, but some of the stories on there are amazing!

I think we'll do it kind of slowly. Start off by avoiding junk food - that should be easy enough and I think should make a big enough difference on it's own! From there when I go shopping on Friday I'll start buying better versions/alternatives to some of our foods, and stock up more on fruit & veg. Then I might research the E numbers I find on the food we do have, and see what I'd like to avoid.

Hopefully this leads to a healthier family!

Kaytee in the Chemical Maze it says 282 & 202 are prohibited in infant foods, cause migraines, developmental delay, irritability, sleep disturbances, inattention etc. Nasty stuff :(

I wanted to buy some wraps tonight for dinner. At my local Coles every one i picked up had 282 in them except the pita bread pockets :( Kind of difficult to make wraps out of but they did the job.

Also checked out the packet of sausage rolls i bought for the kids from Aldi, can't remember the preservitive it was off the top of my head but it had 2 :( :( sad faces in my book..... Just looked up the website and it's Aritficial Colours they have eliminated not preservatives.

Subscribing to this thread as I am just like you OP! really keen on changing things around here as we really need more sleep lol! I know eliminating preservatives, artificial flavours (which is tricky as they dont always have numbers on the ingredients list) and colours (apparently natural colour 160b is linked to more side effects & behaviour issues than artificial ones, so be wary!)

I'll be stalking this thread for some meal ideas and any safe brands and products from the supermarkets ;)

Good luck! It's really a tough one!


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You're right Danni, I've heard that too. 160b can cause sleeplessness, hyperactivity, dizziness etc.
It's hard work, I've found wraps to be a shocker for preservatives. Occasionally we still eat things with baddies in them, I just don't give them to dd. Those baddies are in everything we eat so if you have eliminated most of them and occasionally have something with one of those nasties in it then you're doing much better than before anyway. I guess it's about balance, doing the best you can without letting it become too much of a hassle. The first few weeks are the hardest, it gets easier once you know what brands are good.

Well, we're doing a lot better so far, I've cut out general obvious junk food. Some other things are harder though, and I can't believe this crap is found in so much of our food! If it's not safe for infants and is known to cause health problems, why the heck is it in everything???

Yesterday DH had an Iced Coffee. I usually have an Iced Chocolate, but didn't and then decided to check the ingredients on his carton. It had something in it, 417 I think, so I looked it up and it came up red with a list of concerns including that it's known to cause cancer?! Why on Earth is that in our flipping food??

So yeah, I am eating better, but now that I'm more aware it's more annoying and frustrating that seemingly 'good' foods have this crap in them.

So far it's not helping sleep though, lol. I had a headache the first couple of days (withdrawal I guess?) so I'm wondering if DD is suffering the same thing and it's disrupting her sleep for a bit.

Kaytee i think their can definatley be symptoms of withdrawl from these preservatives. It is really annoying when you look into it all, and in the book i have it lists possible uses for the particular preservative and it's a little off putting when you see what is in your food can be used in beauty products as well :o

It has taken me some time to get DH on board to to even consider these things as a negitive part of our every day lives but he's definately much more helpful these days. It helps a lot.

I think over time you will notice a change in the whole family. It has to be a change for the better!?

Hi there Mountain Bread is great for wraps definitely no numbers in there :)

It's not an instant fix when you start. I think it took about a week maybe 2 for me to start seeing results and I haven't looked back!
Meals don't have to be bland and boring, and you can still eat junk :hide: you just need to be selective about it. I've had to say goodbye to my favourite chocolate, favourite chips, and my favourite chicken meal (from a jar) but it's worth it to not be woken every 2 hours at night!!!!!!! :leap:
Pretty slack it's all so nasty but is still all through our food. I guess it's in such small amounts sometimes that if it was only in one thing you ate occasionally it wouldn't matter. The food companies don't care they just want to sell. We eat so much of it in so many things everyday that the build up is big.

Good luck everyone :goodluck: I've gotta go someone is asking for milk :)

My nutrition lecturer at uni basically said to me that if you have trouble pronouncing some of the ingredients and/or the package can be left in the fridge/freezer/cupboard for a long time (like basically a use by of the next year) then it probably isn't good for you.

If you can get it fresh and make it fresh then it is better for you. And home brand stuff isn't necessarily worse for you than branded stuff, you just need to read the ingredients.

I try to only have staples in my place. Only frozen foods I have are veges, berries, meat and a loaf of bread (we'll just totally ignore the vodka and the daiquiri mix :rofl:). I also have pre-made food in the freezer in terms of food I've made myself. One of my girlfriends used to supply me with home-made pasta sauce but since she no longer lives nearby it is a bit hard.

After reading this thread I went through some of the stuff in the cupboards & freezer, armed with a book my mum gave me (Additive Alert) and wow, I can't believe Vegemite both kids & adults has 508 in it which isn't recommended for children, fritz was another that had a nasty number and also the Coles brand vanilla ice-cream has a number not recommended for children.

I make alot of our stuff from scratch but I do have the pantry stashes for those lazy nights when I'm home by myself because my DH travels a fair bit for work. Will definately have to pay more attention to what I put in my trolley.

So ladies can you tell me.. I've read a little into it and know that artificial colours, flavours & preservatives are the big no nos, but what I'm trying to work out... Are things like emulsifiers, thickeners, anti caking agents etc as bad too? And other random numbers? As any loaf of bread I can find tend to have emulsifiers and I really can't find much without at least one of them. And what is with the ingredient "flavour"??? Does anyone know what that is? My portugese chicken and infant yoghurt has it in the list. Especially on things that say no artificial flavours?

It doesn't help when apparently there is a 5% loop hole where legally companies don't have to put on the ingredients list 5% of their additives and I never thought msg could have so many different names to hide under!!!! :wall: it's a tough one! And some of the words out there confuse me to no end. I feel like I'd have nothing to buy if I ruled out any odd sounding ingredient!

I've got the basic stuff down packed and felt so empowered whilst grocery shopping, it's great having this awareness and knowledge about these additives that you never had, feels good to be helping your baby and yourself!


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'Flavours' don't have to be disclosed they're considered company secrets and they don't want other companies to get hold of them. So, that said unnamed/numbered flavours are a gamble because you really don't know.

As for when it says 'no artificial colours or flavours' just because they are natural doesn't mean they're ok. Annatto is natural and it's a big no no for hyperactivity, head banging, sleep deprivation and a few more things, so natural doesn't always mean ok.

I think it's pretty hard to get bread in the supermarket without nasties, we did get a rye loaf from Coles for a while until we switched to Brumbies and Bakers Delight bakeries, much more choice :)
I think the emulsifiers are ok. You can print the additives to avoid list from the website I gave you that helps to check up. Or print the additives by symptom if you're starting with that to check against. Lots to learn and remember and take in I'm still wading though it all.

Oh double check on the infant yoghurt sometimes they have a nasty, I can't remember off the top of my head what it is, but be careful.

Loving this thread! I didn't know bakers delight bread was ok so that's good to know!

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Loving this thread! I didn't know bakers delight bread was ok so that's good to know!

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I know Brumbies have no numbers in any of their bread, I'm not sure that Bakers Delight are the same, but they definitely have a good range.

Well, I think this is working!! DD started waking every three hours, instead of every 1.5 - 2. I was in heaven, and suddenly had so much more energy (just from a tiny bit extra sleep, it's amazing how much it means!). Then, last night, she slept for.... wait for it.... 7 hours in a row!!! I cannot believe it! She was so much easier to get back to sleep too, fed for 10 minutes and was sound asleep - very easy to put back in her cot without her wriggling and waking. She then slept for 1.5 hours, then an hour then up for the day. Her day naps have improved too, she always has over an hour two hours after waking now, and will have one or two other decent naps throughout the day.

I find this so amazing! I really was skeptical months ago when I heard of people cutting out dairy and wheat - I thought "how much can actually be getting through to the milk? Surely not enough to keep a baby up at night!" But I think I'm now convinced that diet is what was causing her frequent wakings.

I haven't gone completely cold turkey on all preservatives. I cut back slowly, removing junk food first, then looking at labels. I'm really lucky with our local Woolies, they have organic brands with zero preservatives and very easy to read labels. I've even been able to switch our tomato sauce, and the new one tastes better! I'm also making our own bread now that I have a KitchenAid (my new love lol). It's funny, the sense of satisfaction when I find a new product, that I can switch over to. It's like "Hooray, this is something we eat every day, we've been getting pumped with crap, and now I'm feeding us something *real*!" Flip side though, is when I absolutely cannot find a product without preservatives. Or I find something you'd think would be healthy, and it has a pile of nasties in it. So frustrating!

DH is half on board lol. He's supportive, and thinks it's a great idea for DD to eat super healthy, and for me to as well seeing as she still has bm. However he couldn't really care less what he eats lol. So he still has pre-packaged snacks at work, and his Iced Coffee and buys lunch from the smoko van sometimes. But seeing as I do the shopping, I'm filling the house with as much 'good' stuff as possible, and all our cooking is fresh and healthy. I still make a lot of his smoko stuff, so he's getting goodies there :)

Thanks everyone for your help and advice with this!

Kaytee I'm so glad it's helping you guys! :hooray: I was sceptical too but when I finally just did it I was amazed like you :D 7 hours!!! That is awesome!!
My DP is a bit like yours he thinks it's great that DS and me eat limited additives and healthy, but as for him he'll still pump the crap into himself whenever he feels like it. Mind you he should be having a good look at his food to try to stop his itchy skin stuff and wheezing (well probably should stop smoking first lol)

I really hope you continue to have success, and I know that feeling of "yes! Found an alternative.":D
We're still having awesome sleep here usually only one or 2 wakings and no bm until about 5 or 6am then he's off again for an hour or 2 until he's ready to get up.
I am really starting to feel like I'm back in the land of the living again!

Kaytee, and anyone else that gave it a go, how's it going?

Just catching up after being away.... Kaytee i'm so glad you are seeing results. So good for you and so good for your little girl.

I found some icy-poles that were ok for the kids in woolies and they were on clearance when i found them, now woolies don't sell them :rolleyes:

Not sure what else is a good option. Any ideas ladies?

I hate that EJ! I make ice blocks. Additive free juices make yummy ice blocks. I make ice creams too. Jalna yoghurt and fruit, apricots are DSs fave. I wizz the yoghurt with the fruit until it's smooth with my hand held blender thingy then pour it into the ice block moulds :)

Thanks for checking in :) I'm doing pretty well cutting out additives, and we definitely notice better sleep in DD. She hasn't slept 7 hours again, but 3-4 hours is pretty standard. So much better than waking every 45 minutes!

I do have slip ups every now and then, and I notice the difference when I do. Not just in DD's sleep, but in myself. So I'm actually enjoying staying away from preservatives!

We have a few issues at the moment - I suspect DD is teething, she's learnt to crawl and sit up in the last few weeks, and I think she may be hitting a wonder week early. So I think she's up a little more than she normally would be but I'm still happy with every 3-4 hours!

She's also in a habit of wanting to be in our bed from around 3am. After this time she just won't get back to sleep properly unless I lay down with her. It's a bit of a problem because I need to get up at 6 and it wakes her, when she'd normally sleep til 7. But yeah, that's totally not preservative related and as she gradually sleeps longer periods we'll get over that I'm sure :)

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Sounds good Kaytee :) 3-4 hours is so much better than every 45 minutes! The teething and WW will throw things out, but it will pass.

Hi ladies! Thanks to Willow5 for linking me to here :D

I am going to give cutting everything out a try to try and help my DS's sleep. He is 12 months and still wakes every 1-2 hours overnight, has done for a good 6 months now. I dont know the last time he only woke 4 times overnight :/
I tried to get on the diet a few weeks ago, saw some changes after about a week but then he had his birthday party on the 12th and I've struggled to get back onto it since. I have also cut dairy out, which has hugely helped with a vomiting issue he had and he is also eating more solids. So now just the hard part left of cutting out the baddies for a month to see if it helps!

Its so confusing though! I've read over the website mentioned here (thanks again Willow!), and have the list of additives to avoid that I found on the symptom factsheet for sleep. I've noticed when label reading that there are a lot of numbers/names not on the sheet, do I assume they are ok? Or do some of the baddies come under different names?

And has anyone else cut down on natural things found in foods, like fruit? We eat A LOT of fruit daily, and after reading the factsheet I'm thinking maybe I should cut that down a little and have more veggie snacks instead.

I just want to give it all a good go for a month to see if it changes anything. If it does nothing then I've no idea what I will do lol

It is a bit overwhelming isn't it!

We were lucky DS isn't really affected by any of the naturally occurring offenders in fruit etc but some kids/people are it's trial and error at first.
If you're wanting to go all out and eliminate everything, which might be a good idea seeing as you've already identified triggers and sensitivities to dairy. Maybe you need to do the complete Fail safe diet, as talked about on the site. I think it's best to follow the book to do it properly.

We seemed to get really lucky, and by avoiding almost all numbers, and all of the numbers associated with sleep disruption, we had success. We really haven't challenged properly yet, but, we do know that Annatto is a definite offender, both for sleep and behaviour.

Some numbers are ok. Having said that, some are ok for us but maybe not for you guys. There is a complete list of additives on the site explaining what they are, what they are for and whether to avoid, use caution or that they rarely cause problems.

Bread is another big one to watch. We have changed to a no numbers bread. We get it from either Brumbies Bakery (not sure they have them in all states though) but Bakers Delight also do a no numbers range.

:goodluck: good luck with it:goodluck: hope you see some improvement soon :crossfingers:

Shan23 it is very overwhelming for me also, i get a bit strict on it and then loose my grip and get a bit lazy again. We don't seem to have any really detrimental effects but i try and be smart about what we eat just for our own benefit.

I was having sleep issues with DD but have since got a little tough on our resettling and have had some success without having to look too much into the diet.

As Willow5 said it really does vary as to who the numbers will effect and how.

It's a hard enough with the pre-packed things but to even begin looking at fruit and veg is a scary thought also isn't it!?

Just wondering if anyone else saw last night that Coles are going to start having no artificial colours and added MSG in their range of food and drink? It's another step forward, not quite enough but we're getting there.