just wondering if anyone has chosen not to, or it was suggested that they not, medicate a baby with reflux.
i am getting conflicting advice and looking for more info.
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just wondering if anyone has chosen not to, or it was suggested that they not, medicate a baby with reflux.
i am getting conflicting advice and looking for more info.
DD1 had reflux and I was told to give her meds but never did, I just adjusted my diet and the way she was positioned when she slept and that did the trick for us.
what did you change in your diet?
Yep! DD had reflux from about 3 weeks until 4 months. It ended up resolving itself as she grew. The GP suggested Losec but medicating her wasn't something I felt comfortable doing. I altered my diet which seemed to help a little and fed her on demand, which was a double edged sword, as the sucking seemed to help but the full tummy didn't always turn out well. I found a dummy extremely useful for when DD just wanted something to suck on without the effects of the reflux after itms. Also lots of bouncing to sleep etc helped tremendously.
ETA with diet, I don't know what others did, but I limited/cut out dairy, onions and garlic, tomatoes, oranges and chilli.
DS had reflux but he was what they term as a 'happy chucker'. He started at about 5 weeks and he's almost 11 months old now and it's only just eased off now.
We took him to a paed and I told him straight up the I was only interested in meds as a last resort. Paed agreed as DS was happy and putting on more than enough weight. He was formula feed so we changed his formula and kept him upright longer after feeds. We feed him in smaller amounts more frequently and also elevated his bassinet for sleeping. Honestly I don't think any of this really made a significant different. I just got used to going through millions of bibs and lots and lots of clothing changes.
It can be very frustrating I know. Is your baby in pain from the reflux?
I did not eat anything with garlic, onions or capsicum in it. Nothing that had caffeine, even the smallest amout like chocolate. I limited my dairy, still ate cheese but drank soy milk. Just trying to remember what else. I know I limited my green veges but that was more for wind. I remember I ate very bland for the first 4-6months and then I just slowly introduced some of the foods back in. I also drank lots of water but I have never really drank anything else anyway.
Yeah, he is quite unsettled alot of the time but especially after feeds. I have piles of spew cloths everywhere! Dr thinks he has both colic and reflux.:
Just starting to look at my diet (breastfeeding) now. positioning after feeds and laying down for feeds (when i can) helps sometimes.
My DD had colic til 4 months old, so i know we can get through it, just not sure if it is worse for baby to medicate or not.
Also DD never had sleep problems from it, but did experience pain after feeds. We got into a good routine of feed, bounce, and into the close carrier to start the sleep off.
I would never lay DD1 down for about 20 minutes after a feed and when I did lay her down it was on a raised mattress and I put her down on her side I also never patted her back to get her to burp, I just lightly rubbed her back, I was trying to not force the burp, just let it come up on its own and she seemed to throw up less if I did it that way. We did lots and lots of tummy time too.
We didn't. We elevated the end of the bassinet where her head was so she slept on a slight angle (like the hospital bassinets) and removed garlic and onion from my diet. I didn't change positions for feeds. She was really restless after feeds and once she went to bed, but as soon as we made the adjustments, things started to get better and we didn't have to medicate.
With my boys i think they both had your 'to be expected' amounts of relux but nothing that ever came close to needing medication. I did my best to stay away from foods that are likely to effect bub, eg acidic and gas.
With DD it was a completely different story and she threw us for a sixer. It was pretty clear she had Silent Reflux. By the 5-6 week mark we'd gone from every second night being bad to every single night being hell. From 6pm she would scream, there was nothing at all we could do, you could not put her down, she arched her back like crazy, swallowed and cringed in pain, she was so tired in our arms but would wake in a split second and scearm. It wasn't until about 11pm that she'd finally pass out and sleep. I demand fed, never looked at the clock just did whatever i possibly could to keep her happy and to make things easy for me and the family. If i could have controled things with my diet i would have, i was trying my very best. I would blame myself every night for her discomfort, it was always because i ate this or because i ate that but i really don't know. I think it was just her, it was completely different to reflux my boys experienced. It couldn't have all been blamed on my diet could it??
I tired the osteopath and she hated it, she cried the whole way through her 3 appts. The osteo did say that she felt and improvement by the end of the session as she'd been able to clear herself out a bit with all her screaming. By the 3rd osteo appt we were on zantac. I noticed a difference and even though i hated giving her the meds it improved things around my house hugely. I have also heard you can try watered down cammomile tea and mylanta. I tried them both though and it was still distressing trying to get her to take them. Later in the year when DD was about 5-6months i was seeing a naturopath (for me personally) and she was quite horrified that DD was on zantac. I did say that i wasn't entierly happy about it either but it definately helped us out when we needed it. On Zantac she started to get slightly better quality sleep and she was such a happier girl. She didn't smile until the 9 or 10 week mark until the reflux was sorted out. After speaking to the naturopath and taking into account the reasons i was seeing her we took DD of zantac completely, cold turkey. I was a little nervous and in the first week i could see all the signs coming back again but i think it was actually allowing all those digestive sensations to be felt again and by the second week she was fine.
So if you can get away without it go for it, but if you need to and your comfortable with it maybe consider it. From my own expereinces now i can see the differences in severities and feel we did the best we could with the knowledge and quideance we had at the time.
If you are uncomfortable with medications maybe visit and naturopath to see if there are any other natural alternitives.
I was referred by a fellow BB member when i was having trouble with DD to the book Colic Solved. The essential guide to infant reflux and the care of your crying, difficult-to-soothe baby! by Dr Bryan Vartabedian. You might find it worth the read. I have loaned my copy out but i could try and get it back and loan you my copy.
Good luck i hope the disruption is minimal :)
Yes, dd2 went unmedicated. I managed it by keeping her in her sling and vibrating bouncer and she was only dressed in bodysuits and onsies as clothes around her belly made her worse. Luckily it stopped at 4 months. However ds was medicated as his symptoms were much worse and it still flares up now and he is 18 months.
I didn't want to as I hated the thought of a baby so young being medicated (however she is almost 2.5 years and has only just come off medication!)
We tried changing my diet, elevation of cradle, breastfeeding positions/timing, keeping her upright after feeds, giving thickener before BF etc and she just continued to get worse. Even with medication it only ever took the edge off. If a baby (and you) can handle no meds then that is great - however, my dd was severe and even with meds developed pain association with my BB's that noone could fix after seeing lactation consultants, the ABA, tresillian, midwives, mchn etc. She also didnt learn to isolate her muscles as was so tense all the time as she knew the pain was coming so had physio for a year to help that. She started losing weight (after putting on heaps at the start due to comfort swallowing) and stopped growing in length too, never slept.
So what I am saying is of course if you can get away without medication that is great, but for some bubs not being medicated can cause more harm than good. Also because so much damage was done to her throat by the time we started the meds it took weeks to work as the damage needed to heal. My DD wasn't a big spewer either, was more silent with extreme pain!
It is good to hear both from those who did and did not medicate, thanks!
Another question for those who breastfed- did you ever try feeding EBM by bottle or cup - to reduce the air and whatever else introduced by feeding directly from the breast? I am wondering if this could help?
I had no luck with bottles, mine have never liked them. It could be worth a try though, anything that helps is a step closer to not needing to go down the medication path.
If i hadn't of had the chance to see the varying severities in my children my unexperienced thoughts may have been surely there are ways around not having to give medications to such young ones. But being there now i definately see differently. It's still not a nice thing to do but in some cases it does help.
I should have my book back the end of the week if you want to have a read. If you can find the time to have a read :D
Have you read Colic Solved?
All babies have reflux, but some have pathalogic reflux which causes problems - ie, difficulty feeding, not gaining weight/growing, rather than "laundry problems". And some have other problems which may be misdiagnosed. Nearly half of babies with reflux (the problematic kind I mean) also have an intolerance to dairy protein, for eg.
I've also read that sometimes babies with undiagnosed tongue tie (esp posterior tt) are misdiagnosed with reflux because the symptoms of not feeding effectively look very similar to reflux (partic silent reflux).
If babies are getting a lot of air when feeding it can be due to an ineffective feeding style which can be due to the pain associated with swallowing.
In any event, it's probably a good idea to get medical advice from a specialist.
I've offered my copy of Colic Solved to HotI if she'd like it MadB ;)
I read it after DD had finished on the zantac :rolleyes: Timing wasn't great for us but it put a lot of things into prespective for me still and confirmed that the things i saw DD doing were not just her being a fussy bub. They were for a reason which i always thought anyway but had a hard time with MCHN just bushing it off as 'normal' which made me then question myself.
DS2 had reflux and we chose to medicate and it was a bit mistake. He started sleeping through at 6 weeks but his reflux wasn't resolved. At 10 weeks I saw a pead who prescribed 2 doses of losec a day. Poor DS ended up severely constipated and screamed for a a weekend trying to poo. I made the choice, along with my GP to stop the losec and just modified my diet. After the bowl issues resolved themselves he was a lot happier. Yes it wasn't great for me, but I wanted to breastfeed. So cut out all dairy, eggs and a few other things. He never got back into the great sleep, but he was a lot happier. Also, he ended up severely allergic to dairy, so cutting it out of my diet was a big key to his reflux. You have to be careful to check for milk solids in things too. They affected DS too.
DS1 also had reflux and I medicated him and it worked well for him and us.
Have you tried a naturopath? I have some friends who swear by them for help with reflux. Eliminating food from my diet worked best for DS2. Losec was the wrong direction.
I did Medicate my DD but I also took her to see an osteopath. She had a torticollis and the osteo explained that the same postural issue was irritating the vagus nerve (that also runs through the neck). 3-4 visits and it was pretty much all sorted out.
2 of my kids have had reflux and colic together. I just battled through the reflux- I used infacol for colic with great success. We had millions of spew cloths, used carrier and sling alot and a dummy really helped after feeds to help keep everything down.
ATM we are not able to get reflux med for children, and here they say a huge amount for children have reflux for the first 4 months as their little tummys are still developing.
I would suggest looking at Osteopath/ ciro and cranial plate work, before medicating.
Yep I didn't medicate DD but I took her to a naturopath and she gave her a couple of things to take which helped heaps.
Hi,
I think it depends on how bad it is. I couldn't allow my baby to suffer that much and it took awhile to understand what was wrong and then to find the help.
I would think if you could help you mr baby by adjusting position etc then it would be a milder version. We did everything we could think of and Jessica would scream for 5-6 hours straight. She would have sweat pouring out of her, arms and legs going the whole time, she scratched and pinched me. Her voice went hoarse. Her body was always rigid and she wouldn't sleep. Only a few hours in a 24 hour period broken into intervals.
She was put on medication and it wasn't enough. The poor little thing brought up blood in her vomit. Changed paed and finally got the right meds. She still cries during feeds and wants me to hold her all day long but thankfully she is getting better.
Anyway I've copped unhelpful comments even from the pharmacy assistant and I would think do you really think I'd give a tiny baby medication if she didn't need it. Uggh add to that the anti losec bandwagon and it used to upset me.
Go with your gut, you know what your baby needs but not all reflux is the same.
My GP and MCHN both did not suggest medication, nor did I request or suggest. It was more about techniques do reduce (as mentioned by heaps of other mums on BB) and minimalise mess and discomfort until solids was established and the brain was stimualated to close of the oesophagus (I *think*) My DS Chevy, nearly 8 months old now (and 11.5kg!!!) had terrible reflux until he started solids at 4months(ish). His reflux has now gone and all is clean and comfy :)
Otherwise, by age 2 it should be settled, thanks to natural human development and growth :)
xx
DS saw osteo a week or so back who said he was tight from top of his tummy down to his hip on right side. Showed me how to do gentle stretches and said come back in 3 weeks. Regular MCHN said 'yep, that s what babies do'. fill in mchn (who saw DS when he ws unsettled) said 'he is definitely telling us something, looks like reflux see a dr. you can try 1ml mylanta to see if it helps'. Dr said 'i just read a paper sayng reflux is diagnosed too much these days'. and then described how sphincter not fully developed and so milk and acid comes back up (mmm, isn't that reflux?)
i don't necessarily want to medicate, i like the virgin gut theory, but i also don't want him in pain unneccesarily or causing long term problems by not.
EJ- i am checking our ABA library for 'colic solved' but if it' not available, i woud love to borrow your copy if possible.
yeah, well, there's reflux and then there's reflux.
I think it makes sense to get 2nd/3rd etc opinion, try other things to see if that helps, but leave open the option of medication if you think the benefits outweigh the risks. Can you get a referral to a paed?
Absolutely and i've now seen that first hand. Sounds like you have a plan of action HotI, all the best and i hope it's on the lower end of the scale :):
Oh and i should have my book by Friday so just let me know how you go :)
Thanks EJ, i have got a copy of the book now. Will let you know what i find out.
DS has had a few better days. I have cut out milk, (but have had other dairy) so not sure if that is helping or if it is just coincidence. I think we are getting better at positioning DS after feeds and using gravity to our advantage too.
That's good HotI. I wouldn't say the books has any 'quick fixes' but it explains a lot. You'll find it worthwhile just being able to understand what is going on inside your DS's little body and what is to be expected with such young digestive systems.
Hopefuly with the few changes you are making and varying positioning techniques you'll figure it all out without any need for meds at all :) It's all just trial and error.
Good luck xo
Amen to that! My 3rd DS was a mothers worst nightmare. He could not sleep, he lost weight and was labeled "Failure to thrive" he was hospitalized where he had Drs baffled, I had CYPFS (NZ version of DOCs) visit me in the hospital all but accusing me of Munchhausen Syndrome!! I lived on Brown rice and plain chicken breasts for weeks and still nothing helped.:
Every time I was given a new medication to try I felt sick giving it to my tiny baby but knew I had no option.
He eventually stopped even trying to feed breast or bottle and would scream his poor little lungs out when he had to be restrained and force fed with a syringe. He was born a very healthy 4.2kg and at 18weeks weighed in at 4kg :shakehead:
By some miracle a US Reflux Specialist was in the country at the time, he was told about us, and flew to see us. :thumbsup:
He immediately requested DS have a upper endoscopy where it was discovered his Lower Esophageal Sphincter was basically broken so it didnt close off to stop the acids coming back up. As a consequence his esophagus was badly burnt and he needed emergency surgery to cut out the affected area, as it was not going to heal and to try and fix his esophageal sphincter.
The difference it made to my baby was unbelievable, we did have some ongoing issues, like starting solids and some respiratory stuff but to look at him now at 9 you would never guess that he (or me for that matter :rolleyes:) might not be here had it not been for that wonderful man, Mr Jamison.
It does depend on the level they have as in hindsight I do believe my 2nd DS had it too but I just thought he was a bit demanding so he wasnt medicated.
No way. It was HELL without medication, then we did another 6wks with the wrong dose of losec. Horrendous.
I guess it depends on how bad it is. Jack had reflux and high acid. He was actually burned (blistered) on his bum from the acids.
Feijoa Mum what a journey you guys travelled. I know where ours took us and it was no where near that severity. Thankfully you are well and truely past it and so thankful that the US Dr was able to see you guys.
Slightly off the subject of reflux itself but more so on the medication zantac. After about 5 months of breastfeeding DD i started to get two itchy dermatitis looking dry patches of skin close the my n!pple area (on each breast). They were extremely itchy and began to grow in size. I eventually went to the Dr's about it and was given a cream for dermatitis to apply sparingly for 1 week only. I applied it for 1 week and then left it another before i went back with no improvement and if anything it getting worse. After this i was never able to see my regular Dr and the Dr's i saw started treating it as thrush (even though i questioned it as isn't thrush in the n!pple?? and DD had no sign of it whatsoever). So anyway anti-fungal creams made it go crazy, it got bigger the irritation got angrier and i began to be in huge amounts of pain whilst feeding. My skin was red raw and weeping. I was trying to apply bandages while leaving the n!pple accessible for DD. Eventually i stared to get an all over body rash that was 1000x itchy, i would scratch myself until i left bruise marks all over my arms, legs and stomach. Finally after SIX Dr appts in 1 month i was referred to a dermatologist. He prescribed soaks in the bath and applying a cream daily for 1 week, it worked for the body rash but it was only a bandaid solution, once i stopped the rash came back again. Went to him again which was pretty much a wasit of time. I got to the point where i didn't want to see another Dr, put anything else on or in my body i just wanted to curl up and hide away. It was costing my a fortune. I decided to try a naturopath and it was the best thing i did. She was fantastic, assessed the situation and said the rash was a way of my body trying to get the 'bad things' out, as a result of what was going on with the breast. I started taking fish oil and a probiotic and i was applying burrows solution (from the dermatologist) to the breast area. The rash after a couple of weeks was disapearing and the breasts were starting to improve. It wasn't 100% though and talking with the naturopath again she was still really unhappy that DD was on zantac for her own health reasons. I then mentioned to her my theory that the skin condition around the breast area and DD being on zantac seemed to be way too much of a coincidence. Obviously neither of us could prove anything, the Dr's brushed it off whenever i mentioned it but sitting in the appt with her that day i decided then and there that i'd take her off it. She was now 6 months told and i figured i'd deal with the concequences, anything had to be better than the agony i'd been in. After a week there was a huge improvement and after 2 the irritation was barely there. In the first week of DD being off zantac we noticed the tell tale signs and were a little worried but it seemed that it was just her body readjusting as by the second week she was fine. With the way my skin looked i was certain that my bb's would be scarred but now you wouldn't even know and thankfully all that is a distant memory now :pray:
My theory (uneducated but just from personal expereince) is that the zantac in DD's mouth salivas started to irritate my skin hence the initial dry patches, me scratching them broke the skin and allowed nasties into my system which then began the horrible journey that i had, the red raw bb's and the all over body rash. My blood was tested a number of times, i did get a staph infection, i was on a couple of lots of anti-biotics but nothing really made any sign of improvement until DD was off zantac.
Maybe there is no connection at all :dunno: What would you think?
So as i said in an earlier post at a time where i knew no better DD being on zantac was some what of a life saver in that the poor girl no longer had to scream and DH and i didn't have to feel so helpless to help her. But would i ever consider using it again with another bub? Probably not. I would do all i can to not have to go down that path. I had a couple of threads on here asking for help and i think some ladies had had some other bb/skin issues but not quite like mine. So i'm maybe a one off who knows? I am more than happy to know that there aren't many out there who have had to experience what i did to help their babies through reflux.
All along the hell, pain and desperation i was going through i was not ever going to give up breastfeeding my little girl. Brings tears to my eyes remembering that time, my god am i so freaking glad that is over and far far behind me now.
So HotI once again i wish you all the success possible to get through the best way you know how for your littl man xo
I used Garcol (spelling) its a natural thickner added to food of stroke victems.
My pead is natural medication friendly! bub hadnt gainded weight or slept much due to pain and progectile vomit, i was warned he didnt think it would work, but tryed it as we where in hospital, also she slept with a 45 deg angle, after 9 days in hospital, she was discharged (9 weeks old) and finally came of thickened feeds at 2.5 yrs. She did have bad teeth from the constant vomit in her mouth.
Another who chose to medicate. I would have rather not given my baby medicine but he was in so much pain and nothing worked (tilting the bed, keeping him upright, changing my diet, using a dummy, positioning, feeding lying down/standing up/bending over DS, you name it we tried it. Feeds were an absolute nightmare, he would only sleep in my arms and he was obviously so unhappy and in pain. Losec was a life saver, as was an osteo. If other strategies had worked I would have been very happy but I couldn't let DS stay in pain when the Losec might help him, despite my misgivings.
Hopefully you can find some techniques that work for you xx