The Big Cheese scare- ... is it an imported concern????

Hey everyone.

I've been wondering about this for a while, when really I should have put it straight to you guys who have studied every single aspect of pregnancy as I am doing to stay safe and healthy!

Regarding SOFT CHEESE- now in most places that I've read about the reasons for avoiding it.. (listeria) it has said that soft cheese is unpasteurised, - that pasteurising kills the bacteria.

My partner has all along told me that it is law in Aus to pasteurise ALL dairy products... I never take his word as gospel (LMAO!!! And does he hate me second guessing him!) but talking to my friend who is a chef, he told me exactly the same thing!!!!!!

So the question is - ARE WE SCARED SILLY OF SOFT CHEESE BECAUSE OF A THEORY THAT HAS BEEN IMPORTED FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD????

Of course... we're so safe and paranoid, even if this theory proves to be true- it's not like we're going to take any tiny spec of risk of our precious ones by going back to eating glorious brie and fetta... BUT I am interested to know.

As I understand it, cheese is ok as long as it is pasteurised and has not then been mould ripened, as the mould ripening encourages bacteria growth. I'm not sure why soft serve dairy is not recommended even when pasteurised though (and this is certainly the official advice Listeria and food - the risk to people with weakened immune systems - Food Standards Australia New Zealand) but I would be interested in knowing more if anyone is an authority on the subject.

Yes all cheese in Australia is from pasteurized milk. Should you still avoid soft cheese in pg? The general consensus is yes, and I think it's because of the bacteria used to create the cheese (but I don't know).

I still ate sushi and runny eggs and soft cheese in pg. understanding the risks is about helping you make a decision, not dictating what you should do. Hth

Cheese is still imported into Australia that is unpasteurised so that could be why.

Trav, soft serve resulted in some very serious outbreaks of salmonella so I thought that was why it was on the list as the machines are difficult to clean properly.

I think the reason for soft serve is more how it is stored because basteria can be in the equipment. I know places like McDonalds are suppose to clean them regularly, but how clean they would be IYKWIM?

*SNAP* Nai

Ah that makes sense! I remember knowing that at the time but as it's been so long since I was pregnant I've forgotten all the food awareness information :lol:

You can still get listeria in pasteurized products. Every now and then a recall comes out for some cheese that might be contaminated. Better to be safe hen sorry.

Yep, my understanding is that cheese produced in Australia is all pasteurised (has to be) or if it isn't (only very few specialty cheeses) it has to be emblazoned with bells and whistles telling you it is not. You can get some imported cheeses that aren't pasteurised, stuff that you don't come across every day, more likely sold in a specialty market or cheese shop, but again I think it has to be clearly labelled to indicate that it is unpasteurised.
So yes the whole cheese thing has kind of got twisted and there is some mis-information thrown in there.
Another interesting point about cheeses is that in France, the home of all cheeses soft and stinky, have no such recommendation about avoiding them during pregnancy. I'm not saying that makes it OK for us, but it does put a different spin on it.

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As I understand it, cheese is ok as long as it is pasteurised and has not then been mould ripened, as the mould ripening encourages bacteria growth. I'm not sure why soft serve dairy is not recommended even when pasteurised though (and this is certainly the official advice Listeria and food - the risk to people with weakened immune systems - Food Standards Australia New Zealand) but I would be interested in knowing more if anyone is an authority on the subject.

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The soft serve issue is that the equipment is hard to clean, so they can't garentee that it won't harbour bacteris.

Even though the milk used to make soft cheeses has been pasteurised bacteria is re-introduced during production. Any cheese with mould is a listeria risk.

I read something yesterday that didn't quite explain but added something to the theory... it's not just mould ripened cheese, it is cheese with a skin.. so PERHAPS even using pasteurised milk..there is in fact another process that may make it risky.

I guess, there is like probably a 1 in 100 chance of listeria being present in even unpasteurised cheese.... BUT- do any of us take a 1 in 100 risk!!! Not bloody likely !! LOL

Cheese with a skin would be mould ripened, things like brie are just a white mould. You wont find un-pasturised cheese in the supermarket only speciality cheese shops would have it so you wont ever buy it by accident IYKWIM. I actualy dont see the risk with pasturised cheese as any different to most cold food, in that you cant be 100% sure of the cool chain with supply - so the same goes for yoghurt/dips ect.
I make my own soft cheeses normaly and have stopped while preg, as i have eating deli meat ect, but i have been known to have salad with a sprinkle of feta. We all have to take our own informed choices, its the conflicting info thats a pain in the bum.

I think I've become more relaxed with my third pregnancy. I'm steering clear of soft cheeses with mould (brie), but feta, especially the marinated goat's feta (sooo good) has been eaten this time around. And soft boiled eggs. Still wary of salad bars/sandwich shops where i don't know if they've been washed properly.

I remember reading something recently that said something along the lines of - " ..even when pasteurised, the moisture content in soft cheeses make them prone to listeria contamination".

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Listeriosis is an uncommon disease in humans. In Australia in 2003 the rate was three infections per million population for non-pregnancy Listeriosis cases and 4.6 infections per 100 000 births per year for maternal-foetal infections.

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So if Australia has a population of 20 million, that gives approx 60 cases of listerosis per year in Australia.

There are approx 250,000 births per year in Australia. Therefore, 4.6 x 2.5 = 11.5 maternal-foetal listerosis infections/year

There are approx 1500 fatalities from road accidents each year in Australia.

So, statistically you are 100 times more likely to die in a car accident than by infected by listeria during pregnancy.

* i admit that the calculations are crude

That's not quite true HotI. There are other variables which need to be taken into account when looking at the road toll statistics versus maternal/fetal deaths due to listeria. You need to look at how many pregnant women are killed each year within those road toll figures to make a more accurate comparison.

Is great to break it down like that Hotl, Thanks. Helps keep it in perspective, I'm not suggesting anyone eat food they are not comfortable with... but no one ever suggests we don't get in cars for 9m.

I think you more need to be aware of bacteria forming due to bacteria from moisture. Be it Listeria or Salmonella etc. It's more about moisture occuring in a product (could be cheese, could be rice, could be cucumber or lettuce etc) after it has been prepared. The higher the moisture content the more likely it is to be contaminated once it is cut/cooked/prepared, if it is not stored correctly. That is why the emphasis is on eating fresh food and knowing where it has come from during your pregnancy.

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That's not quite true HotI. There are other variables which need to be taken into account when looking at the road toll statistics versus maternal/fetal deaths due to listeria. You need to look at how many pregnant women are killed each year within those road toll figures to make a more accurate comparison.

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Only if pregnancy affects your chances of being killed in a car accident, which is possible cos you are less likely to be male, drinking alcohol ...

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So if Australia has a population of 20 million, that gives approx 60 cases of listerosis per year in Australia.

There are approx 250,000 births per year in Australia. Therefore, 4.6 x 2.5 = 11.5 maternal-foetal listerosis infections/year

There are approx 1500 fatalities from road accidents each year in Australia.

So, statistically you are 100 times more likely to die in a car accident than by infected by listeria during pregnancy.

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I doubt that knowing that only 10.5 other mothers lost their babies because of listeria is much comfort to the mothers who do lose their babies.

The data was on infections, not deaths due to listeria.

I largely chose not to eat the high risk listeria foods during pregnancy, but i do think the risk of listeriosis is overstated, with many women feeling guilt over their diet and have their diet questioned by family members or media, but continue other behaviours where the risk of damage to mum or baby may be higher.

Thanks for the calculations HotI, that is always how I look at risk, everything has a risk so I find it easier to compare the level of risk and then make a decision. ( I chose to eat pretty much whatever but was more careful about hygeine standards, e.g no morning tea buffets at work that had been stood round forever etc) and I have to say the fact other countries Spain, France, Japan etc eating foods considered high risk here did weigh into my decision). What I also found interesting is that foods often end up on that list that you get given at docs etc, due to one specific outbreak and are never removed, so the list is just getting bigger and bigger. E.g Alfafa sprouts ended up on there after a specific incident. Europe had an issue I think with cucumbers last year etc. If things keep getting added without clear indication of risk (or even clearly stating whether is listeria,salmonella etc) from that specific item, it limits our ability to have a choice having all lumped in together. Soon we wouldn't be able to eat anything.

On the figures it is also entirely possible that those maternal infections were not from foods considered to be high risk for listeria.

Something many probably don't know is that even if the milk is pasteurized before the cheese is manufactured, lysteria can still develop in the cheese due to contaminated equipment used during the cheese making process.

So after its been pasteurised, the milk is pumped through pipes and into vats that may have not been cleaned properly, or been contaminated from vermin.

It's very common. They detect listeria and salmonella at my dads work all the time. Yuck hey ;)