Do You Think This Is Fair?

DP works shifts. His normal roster is a week of earlies followed by a week of lates. This makes it hard to establish a routine.

He prefers lates, I prefer earlies. He can't swap to all earlies but he can swap to all lates. I would prefer him doing consistent shifts rather than the chopppng and changing so I'm willing to wear him doing all lates provided we share looking after the girls a bit better.

The main reason I don't like lates is that I do dinner, bath and bed on my own and DD2 is sometimes a nightmare to get to sleep - regularly takes until 8.30 - 9pm (having started trying at 7.30).

Although DP has agreed to get up in the morning so I'm then not trying to get myself ready PLUS the girls ready on my own, I still find that I'm doing a lot of the work in the morning.

Housework is getting lost. After we're ready in the morning, we often all go out to kindergym, story time etc. Then it's time to get DD2 home for a nap and DP might have a nap too. I can't vacuum or load dishes in this time as they're both light sleepers. By the time they're up, it's 3.30/4pm and I don't fancy breaking the back of housework then plus it's time I was prepping dinner.

I've found that when DP's home for dinner, I can get a lot of stuff done while he baths the girls and I miss being able to keep on top of things.

So what I'm proposing is that if I'm doing dinner/bath/bed on my own then DP should do the mornings and sometimes (not all the time) take the girls out to their activities. That way, I can get stuff done.

D'you reckon that's fair? He's complaining about the housework but really the only thing he does is load the dishes. He's around usually until mid-afternoon but rarely takes the girls out on their own so I've either got a house full of partner (creating mess) and two kids or I'm out and about with them.

eta- its ok, just read it again. i get it now. sorry!

does he do any housework in the morning before he goes to work?

Can you hire a cleaner to do the housework, then you can just keep the house tidy?

i think taking them out by himself is definitely fair. otherwise he has to do housework while you take them out. not sure about the mornings thing, how early is this if he's working late?
i'd also be giving him plenty of stick about tidying up after himself. your his wife, not his maid.
Look I'm no dr Phil fan, but there is one thing he says that really resonates with me... when talking about his wife he says he wakes up each day thinking "how can I make her life better, what can i do to give her the best life?". A little bit of that in all our relationships would certainly go along way! And i think it's important that he also has some down time iykwim.

With us, my DH is messy and likes to distrube his stuff aroudn the house... with the declaration that he'll put it away "later'' (that could be days or weeks!). So i have taken to collecting all his 'stuff' no matter what it is, and dumping it on his computer desk and chair for him to put away and sort out. I close the door tot he computer room and I don't have to look at it. He never says anything about the said dumping and amazingly the stuff gets put away cos he wants to play the puter :)

hth

I just have a few questions if you don't mind?

If he works Lates what time does he get home?
Is he normally up at the same time as everyone after working a late shift anyway?

Personally for me i look at it this way - if he has worked a late shift (ie until midnight or beyond etc) then i would be letting him sleep in in the morning as he'd worked all night IYKWIM.
If by chance he works til say 8pm and is home in bed at the same time as you then i don't see there being an issue in asking him to take them to activities whiel you stay home and get some cleaning done.

At our house DP is up early and home late up to 7 days a week, the morning and bedtim routines are all mine and i've had to adjust how i do things to make it work, even when he's home there is no big change and he's normally getting a nice sleep in while i run around like a headless chook keeping the kids from attacking him.
I guess you both need to set out what will work and what wont in regards to if he needs extra sleep, what YOU can & can't do when he's taking a nap or if you need him to take the kids etc.

No, I don't work. We can afford for me not to work because I owned a house when I met DP. He came to the relationship with nothing. I can earn more than him so I guess I resent the implication (from him) that his work is more valuable than the unpaid work I do at home with the girls. I also resent the implication that he is "the provider" - no, it's my hard work for the last 20 years that has made us financially secure. He expects me to do all the housework because "he works". I went back to work part-time after DD1 was born so I know what that's like. In my view, it's a walk in the park compared to looking after toddlers all day. Plus, when I was working part-time I still managed to find time to do housework so I don't think loading the dishwasher as a contribution really cuts it. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to do the lion's share if he helps with the girls and takes them out so I have a clear run. I'm not happy to do the lion's share if he complains about it and refuses to take the girls out on his own.

Sometimes him getting up in the morning will mean he has a limited night sleep but he always has an afternoon nap to catch up.

I think it's fair that DP takes the kids out to some of the activities by himself. After all, you do.

I think DP might prefer lates because this way he's having more of the domestic fun and less of the domestic pain and so why not? I think it's fair for DP to put more effort into housework, by rearranging the way he does things when he's working lates. For example could some of the bathing of children be shifted to the morning (not sure, some kids are grubbier than others) - this was something I did with DD2 when DH was away as it took the pressure off in the evenings.
I think the key to workabilty here is finding a new routine that is manageable for both of you.

Sorry ZF, I missed your questions.

His time home from lates varies considerably. Could be any time really from 8pm to 2am.

If he gets home around 8pm I don't see any reason why he can't be up with the rest of us. My day often doesn't finish till 9pm. If he's on one of the later finishes, he would often then stay up on the computer for hours, not be up for the morning routine and then need an afternoon nap as well. To his credit, he has changed this recently, is better at going to bed and is better at being up BUT tends to sit around and watch while I run around like a headless chicken getting myself and the girls ready and tell me I shouldn't be having a shower because we're going to be late. Ermmm ... there's two of us, why can't you get the girls dressed while I'm having a shower buddy?

ETA I didn't see your earlier post about the division of labour, etc, but I don't think working full time excuses either party from domestic responsiblities. As demonstrated by families where both parents work full time. I also dont' agree with the concept that "providing" money excuses one from further energetic input. Your time is just as valuable as his is, regardless of whether there is a dollar figure attached to it or not. What you're proposing is entirely fair and I think he just needs to suck it up.

IMO its fair in regards to what you are suggesting, not the deal you have right now.

My Dh works at the moment, 10am til 1am (well it varies from 10:30pm to 1am depending on the day). He get up with us in the morning, and he'll either run errands before he goes to work for me, or he'll take the girls for me so I can get some work done, or he'll do some of the housework for me. Im sure he lives by the saying "Happy wife, happy life" at the moment. :rofl:

The other thing that Dh does is he gets up in the mornings with the girls while I get a sleep in. Our agreement is that I get up to the girls during the night, and let him sleep through, then when they get up in the morning Im left to sleep in for an hour or 2 or more depending on the day. (but lets face it that rule stinks becuase the girls come in every 10mins to inform me of what they are up to!)


editted cause I read the first post wrong.. ooops.

Your second post would make me kick him up the bum for attitude alone. I agree with your sentiments 100% and really get annoyed at the whole "she just sits home and watches tv all day" attitude that so many have about SAHMs. Me going back to work doing 12 hour days would be a gazillion times less physically and emotionally draining, albeit nowhere near as rewarding.

I think in principal what you are proposing is fair, although purely from the point of view of knowing what my own DH is like without much sleep, if he got home any later than say midnight I would be letting his morning roster slide a bit so he can have more sleep - just more pleasant for all of us if he's not overly tired (more than any of us are with small children!).

As for doing things on his own with your children, I think this is really important on so many levels - to help you out, to take some responsibility himself, but mostly to foster a really good, deep relationship between him and them. My DH is brilliant with the kids, but whe we're all out together he gets to be the "fun one" (both through his behaviour and how the girls just naturally deal with him if I' there), and I'm the one that has to look after practical things like toilet breaks, food, time to leave etc. I think its good for the dad to be the one imposing the rules sometimes

Good luck. I hope you can reach an agreement with him that works for everybody.

I am married to a shiftworker, and he doesn't have regular shifts..

But he does have to help when he is home. He does the jobs that aren't so dependent on time of day such as washing (it gets hung undercover, so doesn't matter when it gets hung out, just stays overnight if done late and not dry), tidies the kitchen and cleans the bath/toilet. They are the jobs I only do if necessary, but the proper cleaning of them are his job. He also helps with the cooking and kids bed and letting me have a lie in when he is home and hasn't just come off a shift that requires him to be in bed. I work 2 days a week, and if someone is away at work, I will sometimes work extra days and if DH is home, he has the kids (rather than extra daycare) and he has to get the kids to dancing or swimming or playdates that are already in plan on his own.

So no, I don't think you are expecting too much..

ETA - It hasn't been easy getting to this stage of sharing the load.. There have been tears/arguements/no talking to each other.. But I went away for 2 nights last year on my own.. DH realised it isn't quite so easy..

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The other thing that Dh does is he gets up in the mornings with the girls while I get a sleep in. Our agreement is that I get up to the girls during the night, and let him sleep through, then when they get up in the morning Im left to sleep in for an hour or 2 or more depending on the day. (but lets face it that rule stinks becuase the girls come in every 10mins to inform me of what they are up to!)

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I love this one. I'm not sure if my "sleep in" is more disturbed by DH telling the girls to "be quiet so Mummy can sleep", or by them coming in to "just give Mummy quiet kisses", usually after climbing all over me to kiss the part of me that they want! Beautiful but not good for sleep!

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I love this one. I'm not sure if my "sleep in" is more disturbed by DH telling the girls to "be quiet so Mummy can sleep", or by them coming in to "just give Mummy quiet kisses", usually after climbing all over me to kiss the part of me that they want! Beautiful but not good for sleep!

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Oh yes, it is quite gorgeous to have the love, but you're right not great for the sleep. Must admit tho, I love it when the girls come in to dob on DH when he isnt parentng to their expectations, that always makes me giggle! :lol:

No. It's not fair. You both have to figure this out together. Alternate weeks of either taking girls to morning activities or staying home and having a free run of housework where you can do it all in one fell swoop.

Sounds like you both have a few niggles regarding the work vs paid employment thing.

Loading the dishwasher is not housework. It equates to putting laundry in the hamper. Maybe you could call unloading it housework, but that's a stretch.

I agree, it's not fair. I think you need a fairer division of labour and he needs to contribute more to the family side of things (helping with the girls). It's more than fair that he takes the girls to one or more of their activities - maybe he could choose which one so he feels like he's having some say? And he should be helping in the mornings - surely he can pour four bowls of cereal instead of one? Or pack a snack while you dress the girls. Here, when DH is home in the mornings, he usually dresses DS while I make breaky, then he'll clean DS' teeth while I clean the kitchen/pack a snack if we're going out. At night, DH does the bath/shower while I clean the kitchen and get PJ's/milk/bed ready or vice versa.

Can you do up a housework roster and allocate tasks for each of you to do each day? It works reasonably well in our house because we know what has and hasn't been done (when DH got a housework kick on - rarely - he'd do the same job I'd done two days before instead of something that was in desperate need of doing, iykwim). It also saves you nagging!

Also, you said you can't do 'noisy' jobs while the girls are sleeping, but can you do others? e.g. prep dinner so that when the girls are up you can vacuum/unpack the dishwasher? And there's no reason the girls can't 'help' with those tasks either - it's good for them to see how a household runs and it can be fun time you can all enjoy together. DS loves helping with the housework (I use the term 'helping' loosely, it's all relative for a 22 month old. lol!)

I think it's a fair suggestion. Perhaps you should give him the choice - taking out the girls or doing the housework :)

I think it would be hugely beneficial if he at least took the girls out for a couple of hours somewhere so you could do your bits and pieces. Neither my DF or I work ATM. I'm a SAHM and my DF is in between jobs. I guess b/c he's not working, he is able to do lots of little things around the house (minus the cooking, he tends to leave that up to me and I don't mind b/c half the time it's take away, lol). But I do most of the 'proper' housework whereas he does the light vac everyday mainly to pick up DS's crumbs which all over the house, plus I do all the baths. But I don't mind doing more than him, as long as he is willing to take DS off my hands regularly and consistently so I can do my housework without DS under my feet all day long. When he does go back to work it will all change, but when he was working full time, 10 hour days, I always shoved DS in his face the minute he got home and he didn't mind. God bless his cotton socks. HTH!

JLeigh- had to laugh at your post..DD (2 1/2) is absolutely mad about unpacking the dishwasher. So much so that she would rather 'pack' as she calls it, than come and eat breakfast in the morning. Drives me nuts sometimes as all she wants is for me to come and put the sharp knives away and all I want to do is try and wake up!!

To the OP, I think that is totally fair. As I keep telling my DF ( not that it is making an ounce of difference..) I am not his housekeeper or his maid, he lives here too so it's not fair to expect me to do absolutely everything when we are both making things 'dirty'..And DD is his child too, so again it's not really fair that I have to take responsibility for her 24/7. Hope your DH is responsive to your suggestions!

Just coming back to say that since we've rejigged, things have been really good. DP is now working all lates. Two days a week we get them ready together for kindy/childcare together and he does the drop off. On the other days, he takes them out and I do housework/admin. We had a glitch today but generally speaking, so far, soooooooo much better. I have bags more energy. And I got my tax return done and am now waiting for a big fat refund as well as some other financial stuff which will see us much better off on a week to week basis. Amazing what you can get done when you actually have time to do it :)

So thanks everyone for convincing me that what I was thinking was definitely reasonable.