Operation "turn that baby"

So midwife appt yesterday at 35+3 showed bub still not head down and in a weird position

Been told to start acupuncture and moxi (something or other) so have appt on Tuesday night.

Midwife said next appt on 12/7 I will be checked using ultrasound and if still not head down - doctor will manually turn him (if I want) they will then check next day and again manually turn (if I want) and if he still isn't cooperating I will be booked in for c-section

Can anyone give me their experiences on manual turning of bubs and results.

Also any other ideas to get him to turn. We do believe he is on the small side and he often does complete flips around my belly, so he must still have plenty of room. I'm also only measuring 32.5cm/weeks so they will check that at next appt as well.

I want to avoid c-sections by all costs as it will mean residing in a 2 bedroom unit with my sister, brother in law an niece (as well as us 3) whilst my sister still works and my brother in law incapacitated with a broken back.

Help!!!!!

Have you been to spinning babies website? Some fantastic resources there!

My yoga instructor has shown us positions for turning baby! But I have baby brain so I'm sorry I cannot even begin to describe these positions lol. Youtube?

Yes the spinning babies website. She would have been talking about Moxi Sticks (think that is what they are called), incense you stand on and it is supposed to turn baby. A GF used them and it worked.
Another option is a Chiro who is experienced in the Webster technique. My SIL is Chiropractor and has success turning babies with this technique.

Good luck!

Been trawling the spinning babies website. Hoping someone can pop in here with tried and proven methods. Really dreading a c-section and the little man is still flipping around a lot.

Hope he sorta himself out and just goes head down

The "version" should have a good chance of success :). I'll be thinking of you.

Both my last two (my vba2c's) were bum down until about 38 weeks, they both flipped after my 38 week appointment with my midwife.

I did half handstands in my shower and some squats afterwards and it worked both times. My theory was the half handstand (just bending over and putting your hands on the floor and up on your tippy toes) was that the baby would float up out of my pelvis and then flip over the right way, and the squats opened my pelvis up so bubs would stay put. I also went on all fours and rocked back and forth and then did more squats.

Dunno if my theory is correct for everyone else but it worked both times for me!

Moxibustion can be fantastic!

Accupuncure can help also.

Positioning on spinning babies site is excellent and very helpful.

Good luck

There is no such thing as a proven method, i'm afraid. Sorry.

I went to someone to get moxibustion done and then she gave me sticks to do at home after she showed me what to do. Honestly, you have never seen a tummy move so much as when i did moxi! It was hard, though being home alone. I had to set the stick up and then put my foot over it - i couldn't hold the stick myself - i was too preggers! I think if all your baby needs is some encouragement - then moxi is totally worth the try.

I was unable to find a practitioner prepared to do a ECV - I had very very little amniotic fluid. I was very keen to give it a try, though. Even if it did bring on labour.

Walk lots - or at least stand. It's a more natural position (you know, our ancestors didn't really sit at a desk and work on their computers hunched over all day!). I was lucky to be lent a fit-ball, and i did sit on that. I spent a lot of time on all fours. I had a toddler - so i used to play with him on the floor like that.

I had no DH home at that time so i spent hours and hours everyday dedicated to 'turn that baby'!! At least that way i knew i did absolutely everything i could to help him along!! I would never wonder if i could have done more.

I am really really hoping that your bubs does a great big flip and lands head down, bum up. Good luck xx

My midwife used rebozo to get my baby moving and head down. kinda like this http://www.spinningbabies.com/techni...ebozo-sifting/

I would lay on my back, with a woven wrap under me, and 2 people would each hold the end of the wrap. They then alternated pulling/wiggling the cloth and my tummy would be all wiggly. I also did it kneeling forward. Baby would move around and move head down. After this i would bounce on the fitball for awhile, and we also wrapped my tummy. I had a large seperation in my abdominal muscles and so they weren't holding baby in and over the pelvis.

Baby was highly mobile and went from transverse to head down to trasverse to head down to breech to transverse..... but was thankfully head down at 41 weeks when he was born. He was still changing position at 40 weeks. If your bub is still able to move around, i wouldn't agree to a c section. Baby can change position during labour, so don't feel pressured to sign up for a c section early.

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My midwife used rebozo to get my baby moving and head down. kinda like this http://www.spinningbabies.com/techni...ebozo-sifting/

I would lay on my back, with a woven wrap under me, and 2 people would each hold the end of the wrap. They then alternated pulling/wiggling the cloth and my tummy would be all wiggly. I also did it kneeling forward. Baby would move around and move head down. After this i would bounce on the fitball for awhile, and we also wrapped my tummy. I had a large seperation in my abdominal muscles and so they weren't holding baby in and over the pelvis.

Baby was highly mobile and went from transverse to head down to trasverse to head down to breech to transverse..... but was thankfully head down at 41 weeks when he was born. He was still changing position at 40 weeks. If your bub is still able to move around, i wouldn't agree to a c section. Baby can change position during labour, so don't feel pressured to sign up for a c section early.

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Wow I am so glad you mentioned this because I am asking my MW to do rebozo to turn bub from posterior to anterior. How quickly did it work?

EDIT: I have a large separation too. Did they do this only during labour or during pregnancy too?

I think chiro has already been mentioned earlier. The lady who I see helped another mum turn her bub around the 36 week mark.
Both my acupuncturist and chiro said that they usually try a couple of times to turn a baby and if still no successs, they won't push it - I think one of them mentioned that if the cord is wrapped around the neck, the babysometimes won't move down (self preservation?). But apparently they have a lot of success in moving those bubs! Good luck and hope that you avoid the c/section.

Thanks ladies - definitely a lot to think about. I will ring the chiro I saw at 10 weeks and see if she may be able to help and will discuss further with acupuncturist on Tuesday.

It feels like he is stretched out across me right now - I have a bit jammed out either side. Thankfully I finish work in a week so have a week at home alone to do what ever possible

CMKM? has anyone explained the risks of ECV to you?
That an emergency cs is very possible directly due to the ECV?
Have you considered birthing him normally? remembering it is up to you NOT the care provider to decide how you birth YOUR baby?

My sisters bubs was breech and then turned sideways for a while which was very uncomfortable and at 38weeks he turned head down just on his own. She said it definitely hurt and was uncomfortable so she knew he had moved, so it is possible bubs will move. It is good to have all this advice and options to try some things!!
I have a friend who had a breech bub and had him turned by the Ob at 38 weeks, worked fine and she said it wasn't painful or terrible like you get told! Just some positives for you :-))

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CMKM? has anyone explained the risks of ECV to you?
That an emergency cs is very possible directly due to the ECV?
Have you considered birthing him normally? remembering it is up to you NOT the care provider to decide how you birth YOUR baby?

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Ecv? Is that them moving him? Basically appt yesterday she said she wasn't confident he was head down. At next appt she has me booked into labour ward for monitoring and scan and then dr to manually turn (if I want) then I will be monitored and next day try again. If still nothing I'll be booked for c-section. She didn't give me any info about how it happens what will be done etc. a lot of people have advised against it (friends wise). She said if he wasn't head down at next appt I would be booked for c-section. I know babies can be born breech and I was discussing with my mum tonight but she said he might not be in a position which makes this possible (so I'm now even more confused)

I have to work out what's best for me, bubs and dd. bubs father walked out in January so he's not around to help and my nearest relo is sister 1.5hrs away so I'm pretty much on my own (friends are around but can't really do much if I have c-section as I'll need a lot of help). Dd is also diabetic and her father lives 2 hrs away so I can't call on him in an emergency to be there really quickly (he would do his best but obviously takes time)

The reading I'm doing online makes me just want to wait and see what he does, but then I'd also prefer to plan if I have to have c-section so my sister can come down, dd can be looked after etc.

Information is power! There is a small chance that the procedure will fail in such a way that you would need an emergency c/s straight away, but the odds of that happening are fairly low. It is something for you to decide... benefit v's risk. The scan will also tell you which type of breech you are dealing with. Some breech bubs can be born vaginally, some can't, and the hospital will have a policy about that too :).

There are 4 types of breech positioning; Complete (kind of like siting cross legged but knees up), Frank legs up by ears, footling or kneeling. If baby is complete or frank VB is possible.

ECV is External Cephalic Version where they try to turn baby from the out side. the procedure is U/S to check position and a CTG, some times they give a drug called a tocolytic to relax the uterus. the woman lays on the bed and the doctor pushes on the bottom and the head of the baby to move it around in to the right position, then you have another CTG. It should NOT be painful and if it is they need to stop.
The risks are - Placental seperation (which means immediate CS)
-Rupture of membranes ( which can lead to augmentation of labour then puts you in the cascade of intervention)
- Cord entaglement (which can result in C/S)
- Onset of labour

the stats say that an ECV is effective in 50% of women who have it. of those 50% 95% stay head down.
Breech vaginal births are possible and c/s will put you and baby at further risk of complications then a normal birth.

You might need to organise someone to care for your DD as of your next appointment if the ECV does not go as planned.
You also do have a choice and depending on where you are i am sure i can help to find some advocates that will help you if you do not want to have the c/s you have been told you will have to have if he doesnt turn

HTH

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There are 4 types of breech positioning; Complete (kind of like siting cross legged but knees up), Frank legs up by ears, footling or kneeling. If baby is complete or frank VB is possible.

ECV is External Cephalic Version where they try to turn baby from the out side. the procedure is U/S to check position and a CTG, some times they give a drug called a tocolytic to relax the uterus. the woman lays on the bed and the doctor pushes on the bottom and the head of the baby to move it around in to the right position, then you have another CTG. It should NOT be painful and if it is they need to stop.
The risks are - Placental seperation (which means immediate CS)
-Rupture of membranes ( which can lead to augmentation of labour then puts you in the cascade of intervention)
- Cord entaglement (which can result in C/S)
- Onset of labour

the stats say that an ECV is effective in 50% of women who have it. of those 50% 95% stay head down.
Breech vaginal births are possible and c/s will put you and baby at further risk of complications then a normal birth.

You might need to organise someone to care for your DD as of your next appointment if the ECV does not go as planned.
You also do have a choice and depending on where you are i am sure i can help to find some advocates that will help you if you do not want to have the c/s you have been told you will have to have if he doesnt turn

HTH

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Thanks glorious. Dd is at her dads from the 7/6 to 15/6 and appt is on 12/6 so have a few days leeway.

I'm birthing at gosford hospital (nsw central coast)

Last scan on 6/6 had his feet near his head under my left rib. He has been doing a lot of flips tonight so he seems to be having fun :)

Ive had a not so pleasant pregnancy so this is almost the icing on the cake. I had a long and traumatic labour with dd (43 hours) so really wanted this one to be "easier"

Thanks again for all your help

You can also ask for a trial of labour! Let me try and refind a paper I read, because if all women who weren't head down at 37 weeks had cs's, 50% of those could have been avoided (from memory!).

First labours are almost always traumatic and lengthy (we all have our own ideas of length)
Your body has done this before and therefore is "easier" on the body, not always easier in our own eyes but there is a definite difference between 1st and subsequent labours and births.
only you can decide what you want to do. If you want more information feel free to PM me :)

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Thanks glorious. Dd is at her dads from the 7/6 to 15/6 and appt is on 12/6 so have a few days leeway.

I'm birthing at gosford hospital (nsw central coast)

Last scan on 6/6 had his feet near his head under my left rib. He has been doing a lot of flips tonight so he seems to be having fun :)

Ive had a not so pleasant pregnancy so this is almost the icing on the cake. I had a long and traumatic labour with dd (43 hours) so really wanted this one to be "easier"

Thanks again for all your help

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Oh Gosh, I know all too well the feeling that you want this one to be easier, I had a similar length birth with DD1, and this bub is posterior. The fact that your bub is still moving should give you some hope that he can continue moving into the right spot. How are you feeling mentally after having a long first labour and a difficult second pregnancy? I don't mean that in a negative way, but our mindset can influence our decisions and it isn't always simple to pick what is best for bubs at the expense of us having no control or guarantees etc.

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First labours are almost always traumatic and lengthy (we all have our own ideas of length)
Your body has done this before and therefore is "easier" on the body, not always easier in our own eyes but there is a definite difference between 1st and subsequent labours and births.
only you can decide what you want to do. If you want more information feel free to PM me :)

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I don't mean to be rude but that seems like an unwarranted statement. Many of the women here had straight forward first births and I would hope the first timers here aren't reading this as a guarantee of birth trauma to come.

Yeah, they prep you for emergency c/s when they do an ECV. So if you go down that path, keep that in mind for any assistance you'll need for your DD if anything were to happen. The success rate of ECV isn't wonderful, but saying that, they gave me less than 20% success rate because she was a 'big' baby. She turned easily, and it def wasn't painful, and she stayed head down. I had the injection to relax the uterine muscles (I thought this was standard, not a sometimes thing?) which can give you an elevated heart rate and make you a bit shaky. The procedure itself was quite quick, and they monitor with ultrasound regularly to make sure it's not distressing bub. Re discussing risks... my midwife and I couldn't get over how much they listed all the risks of the ECV, yet quite flippantly spoke of a c/s. Not once did they list any risks of a c/s. I had plenty of scare tactics thrown at me re the ECV, with c/s only being spoken of like it's the risk free option. pfft.

As for c/s.. no one can MAKE you book in that c/s. If bub is in a favourable breech position, VB is still possible, but I would be ensuring that your care providers are experienced with breech.

i remember all too well the decisions and options and everything that goes along with a persistent breech bub! We (my midwife and I) were desperate to have bub turned so that I could go ahead with my homebirth (plus I hadn't had a pregnancy go longer than 37 weeks, so there was a risk of my going into early labour while still breech). Nothing else worked but the ECV. I sat for what felt like weeks burning that damn moxi stick next to my toe (stinks btw LOL), lying upside down on my ironing board, 3 visits to the chiro for websters technique... none of them working.

i hope you can get bub turned nice and easily. It's such a relief to finally get bub head down, so you can get on with planning the birth. Will be thinking of you.

trauma is only definable by the person experiencing it straight forward to you might not mean the same to others. Again MOST women feel that their 1st labour and birth is more traumatic then their subsequent. Just because a couple of women on a forum have had good experiences (often associated with great knowledge and brilliant support) on the whole MOST women feel their birth did not go as they expected therefore being traumatic for THEM.
Usually they become more informed through, having BTDT or searching for information.

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Wow I am so glad you mentioned this because I am asking my MW to do rebozo to turn bub from posterior to anterior. How quickly did it work?

EDIT: I have a large separation too. Did they do this only during labour or during pregnancy too?

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We did it a number of times during pregnancy from 37? weeks, cos he changed position again. Each time, it was less than 5 minutes of rebozo and baby changed position and turned head down. My midwife did say that was really quick though, and probably due to the muscles not providing structure for baby. My baby was a big one too, over 10lb.

We planned to do it during labour if needed, but it wasn't needed. i was able to move around freely (and did wiggle my hips lots) and i think this helped to get him through. i don't know what position he was at the start (ant v post) but he came out ant.

One of the more 'natural' communities actually promote baby to be in posterior position prior to labour, something about lining them up and then they do the twists and turns during labours. i can't remember where i read that but will try to find it again.

The more I read and research the more I'm getting annoyed. I'm through a community midwife program and have had the same midwife from the start.

I feel like she basically said this is what will happen at next appt - but simply added the words if you want. Making a decision on the day would have been impulsive as she never told me what would be done, how it would be done, the risks, alternatives etc.

I've got a slightly moving "lump" under my left rib but don't know if it's bum or head. He was having a whale of a time last night but has been quiet since.

Off to do more reading again today! Try not to freak out too much

My midwife taught me to feel for the head. If you get your hands on either side of the lump you want to identify and wobble it, if it moves quite freely it's the head. If it seems to move the whole baby, it's a bum! It was so easy once she showed me. Feels like you're moving a tennis ball between your hands. So my poor dd had her head wobbled every day to see where she was at lol.

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trauma is only definable by the person experiencing it straight forward to you might not mean the same to others. Again MOST women feel that their 1st labour and birth is more traumatic then their subsequent. Just because a couple of women on a forum have had good experiences (often associated with great knowledge and brilliant support) on the whole MOST women feel their birth did not go as they expected therefore being traumatic for THEM.
Usually they become more informed through, having BTDT or searching for information.

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You didn't say "more traumatic than subsequent" you said "first labours are almost always traumatic". There is a big big difference! Birth doesn't have to register as traumatic to first timers. Why instil birth fear? I won't buy into a mindset that tells women to expect trauma as par for the course.

Maruschke - these pics are more like how my midiwfe did rebozo on me. It feels a bit wierd (like all your organs are jiggling) but its not uncomfortable

http://www.homebirth.net.au/2008/03/...technique.html

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Maruschke - these pics are more like how my midiwfe did rebozo on me. It feels a bit wierd (like all your organs are jiggling) but its not uncomfortable

http://www.homebirth.net.au/2008/03/...technique.html

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Thanks heaps! I spoke to her about it today and while she doesn't do it often, she is happy to give it a go for me. I've gone from a bit uncertain to quite excited about this upcoming birth :D. Will be interesting to compare notes afterwards on rebozo.