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She is driving me crazy! DD3 is difficult at the best of times, we're having major issues atm and one issue that turns into a huge and very long tantrum/screaming is getting her to apologies, she cries, screamed, calls mummy over and over and over again, I don't understand why she can't/won't do it,
I've just asked her to say pardon after farting and the same thing is happening.
I need help desperately as this will go on all day.
Ahhhh three year olds!! So determined to do things their way :o
We've had a similar issue with DS when we've required an apology (eg for doing something he knows full well is not on - eg biting etc), and at first it turns into a 'DS acts like the wounded bull' and cries and asks for Mummy cuddles.
Most of the time (!!) what has worked is to say he can certainly have Mummy Cuddles - but he needs to say sorry first - we tell him him he has two choices - sit by the bookcase (which is kind of a time out spot) OR say sorry and have a cuddle. Sometimes he picks the timeout, and will sit there and carry on for a bit in tantrum mode - Usually I leave him for a few minutes, then get down there with him and ask him if he is ready to say sorry yet if he wont, I walk away and come back a few minutes later and busy myself so he thinks I am not watching his behaviour, sometimes I do this multiple times until he finally says sorry, then I give him lots of praise for doing the right thing by apologising and we have a little 'chat' about manners and whats the right thing to do.
This only works when I am able to stay calm myself LOL
What happens after she apologises? A cuddle? With us we found that its a bit confronting, having to do something with a consequence.
sent from the Hellmouth.
DD2 here is a much more determined individual than her sister. She will often refuse to apologise or conform - we try to move on quickly so firmly insisting on the apology/excuse me etc but looking forward as if it is a step that is necessary before we move on. This is getting easier with time. Although we do have the issue of DD1 doing things, just saying sorry and not changing her behaviour!
DD2 here is having a rough time atm (in her eyes) as she is feeling like she misses out compared to DD1, trying really hard to be patient but she is hard work!
:hug: I am trying to pick my battles here, I get them to apologise but am also trying to pick them up on every little thing, and letting some things slide. I had an awful time at Donny just before and spent 5 minutes lecturing the 2 of them on manners, thank-you's, please, not asking " I want" for every freaking thing. They were silent through the whole thing and then DS nearly 4 goes, "Mummy rain is clouds you know".... **Sighhhhh* Not much help but you definitely aren't alone. :hug:
We have the same issue! DD2 will burst into tears and cry and cry if asked to say sorry. We remove her from the situation and then tell her she can return and have a cuddle if she stops crying and says sorry. We also make her say what she is sorry for. Then she is allowed back into the situation. I'm not sure why she is so stubborn and has such an issue with saying sorry - does my head in!
It's funny was just thinking about it and with Iz we will get her to apologise and she cries and carries on at times, then I will say what are you sorry for and sometimes it's way off the mark?! Like today I wanted her to apologise at the shops because she screamed SO loud I think people thought I had tried to murder (yes I was THAT mother at Riot Art) but instead she goes - "sorry for sooking" about something earlier:o Their perception is so different to ours in our head that sometimes I think we need to be really explicit at why they need to say sorry as well as what they are saying for ITMS? Sort of thinking out loud because we are dealing with some stuff here as well!
I make my boys say sorry for ... Hitting or whatever then give a kiss and cuddle to that person and we move on. Its just part of the sorry. But they need to say what they are sorry for. I will help them word it if they can't.
Pardon after burps is a must- we are also trying to teach that you dont need to do loud burps many times but baby girl cracks up laughing and imatates the burps so that lesson isn't really a good 1 atm.
If there is no apology- loose a toy. And we just ignore the tantys as much as we can
Sent from my Galaxy with the barefoot princess covering me in kisses, so please forgive the mistakes
I think modelling is the only way to do it. I don't feel it's sincere at all if kids are told to say thanks or sorry or whatever. Are they learning consideration for others, or are they learning how to appease you, you know?
DS only apologises if it's actually an accident. at least that's sincere, I guess.
They are totally, and absolutely egotistical! it's so frustrating and impossible to get through to DS that there are actually other people in the world who might have different wishes and ideas to him. he just doesn't care.
I dont have much personal experience but it's something I researched a while ago. My nephew threw a tanty in Target, embarassing my SIL. My brother took him out of the store for a while, then brought him back to apologise to me and SIL. I asked him what he was sorry for and he tearfully protested 'I dont know!'. He was 4 at the time and we wanted a Batman figurine. It interested me from a child psychology perspective. Anyway, research shows that at that age, a forced apology doesnt change behaviour from unacceptable to acceptable. They dont have the capacity to feel sorry if they aren't.
Here's a link to a blog entry:
http://www.janetlansbury.com/2009/12/youll-be-sorry/
I also found research on it but the site had commercial links so I cant post. If you google "child development apology", there's some interesting reading.
I tend to take MadB's approach too Olive. I've never really overtly tried to get DS to say "sorry". I model it (and other manners) in everyday life and I will ask him if he feels like saying sorry. Whether he felt like saying it or not I would follow with a straightforward, unemotional statement of fact describing how his behaviour affected me or other people and then I would move on. This approach has worked for us and now, 90% of the time he is very quick to say sorry, before he is even prompted. The times he doesn't say sorry are when he hasn't realised he's hurt someone and he usually says it when it's pointed out.
Please don't take this the wrong way because you're certainly in the majority in terms of what you are doing with manners but I think your DD is reacting to feeling coerced and controlled around the manners issue rather than having a problem with using manners per se. Over time it's developed into a big battle ground and she is getting really upset which isn't going to produce the behaviour you want without a greater degree of control/threats/coercion from you.
If it were me, I would just step back and disengage from the battle altogether. Don't even prompt her to say sorry. Or if you do, pose it as a choice she can make. Certainly still point out the consequences of her behaviour to others - she hurt her sister, or hurt your feelings or whatever - but then move on. It might take a while but your modelling and being non-emotional will work over time. She will be well mannered eventually! The other thing I do when DS and I get into battle-mode is to try and step back and question my own motives. Are my expectations, boundaries, behaviour appropriate and realistic? itms?
GL mate. It sounds like a tough patch for you both atm.
ETA - I totally second what LionsandBears posted in that link. The woman behind that site is AMAZING!! Love her work.
I don't ask DD to apologise cos i don't see the point if they don't mean it. if she has hurt someone, i will talk to her about hitting not being ok and when she is calmer i will ask her to check if the person is ok.
an insincere sorry annoys the poos out of me.
I think the age and development of the child determine whether they know why they are saying sorry though, but yeah, totally agree it's pointless if its just to say the word without any meaning or understanding not to repeat the behaviour
DS at 3yrs3m has a pretty good understanding - the other day I had a pregnancy meltdown when he refused to wear the third pair of pants offered. I just sat on his bedroom floor and burst into tears (hormonal 38w preggo over it moment), he came up to me hugged me and said "I'm sorry Mummy, I'll get dressed now" and promptly did without another protest.
So if they understand, then definitely go with it (not necessarily with the emotional hormonal Mummy tears though LOL)
I'm with madb
If DD (more than DS as he does understand) hurts someone, or even the dog, I show sympathy and apologise myself. She kind of looks on and then realises what I'm doing on her own, without being made to apologise. She then offers her own apology and shows a bit of remorse for doing what she did.
DS thinks the world revolves around him, which is really frustrating, but he only really apologises when he can see if something is really serious.
I agree with Kaz.
I would just stop trying. After all, making her say sorry is not making her feel sorry. I try not to make the girls say sorry. But it's hard for me. Especially when they've done something to another kid and I fell like they should say sorry. But I'm trying to remember that it's more important to me to teach empathy than manners iykwim. So instead I will just try to draw attention to what they've done and how it effected the other person. E.g. if DD1 hurts DD2 I might say 'Poor DD2, look at her, she's crying, that must have really hurt her' and more often than not DD1 will then come over and try and make her feel better. Mission accomplished :)
HTH!
My kids get time out to think about what they have done, and they stay there until they are ready to come talk about it and to apologise for their behaviour. It isn't a punishment, it honestly is 'time out' to calm and think about things. More often then not, when they have calmed down they do come out and apologise without prompting. Not just "I'm sorry" but they explain 'why' they are sorry.
I'm with MadB too. From an early childhood teachers perspective and developmentally, even the children in my class who are 5, I don't make say sorry. I believe it's only a word and it doesn't teach empathy or understanding. Some children believe they are excused from misbehaviour by saying sorry. I prefer to link misbehavior with consequences.
Louise Porter wrote a fantastic book called 'Children are people too: A parent
I love love love Janet lansburys blog!!! I read it a lot!!:
It's true that for young kids it is actually hard for them to say sorry as they can't understand the meaning behind it well enough even if we explain it.
In saying that though, I still model it and always like DD1 to say sorry where possible but never force her to.
I sometimes say "when you are ready can you please say your sorry?" and sometimes 10mins after she will :)
If DD1 accidentally hurts DD2, she will automatically say 'oh sorry bubba'
Big hugs Hun I wish I could help you out.
I was always making ds1 say sorry till he started kindy and his teacher doesn't make them say sorry she makes them do something to make it better as they usually don't know why they are saying sorry :-( and it makes total sense.
Maybe just leave her and not give her the attention when she does something?
Big hugs babe xxx
Oh dear the threes..... Dd2 still has days like this at 5 almost 6. She is very bright, needs to know honest details.
No idea how you deal with it really but consistency works.
And the good days start out weighing the bad I promise. If it doesn't feel that way. Mark your diary :)
Hugs
I explain to dd2 what the problem was and why it made the other person or me sad. Usually once I explain that she offers the apology herself and offers cuddles. If she's upset I take her away from the situation to calm down then do the explanation.
I try to model the behaviour I want, so always use please when asking them to do something and saying sorry or apologizing if I've done something wrong. I don't believe in trying to be right all the time because it's just not possible.
Of course some days none of this works and we all end up in a screaming heap :-/ manners will come eventually I've found. I try to be consistent and I even get compliments in public now for their manners.
i remember hearing, that child development wise, kids only are capable of empathy, from about the age of 6 or 7. Not sure i agree with this 100%, as bilby has been empathetic (not in everything, but when other people get hurt for example) from a younger age.
Saying sorry is big to me, after being raised by parents who NEVER apologised for anything, and then having a partner who could NEVER say sorry, even if ten people saw him purposefully do something wrong, he would always make a joke about it, instead of apologising.
I find compassion is more important to me than saying sorry, KWIM? I am more interested in the girls finding out if someone is ok than saying sorry to them. It can be very socially awkward though, I do understand.
This morning Natalie (5.5yo) had a meltdown because she told me she wanted something and I insisted she ask me using her manners and she wouldn't. I didn't give her what she wanted. We sat down and I asked why she wouldn't ask me nicely. She replied that she was scared.
It's fascinating really. I have obviously really put her on the spot, embarrassed her or made the situation more tense than I needed to (and I acknowledge, I could've been a lot more polite to her as well - I have been very tired and fed up the last couple of days). It's a really hard balance to find, wanting your child to be considerate in the way they treat others and at the same time showing consideration to your child who really doesn't have the capacity to understand many social situations.
Good luck with it, mate. Hopefully you find something that works for you all.
A huge thank you to everyone who replied....I realized I've been doing some f this parenting stuff wrong :hide: :doh:
Going to sit down with DH to nut out a plan of attack
:grouphug:
Hun you are not doing anything wrong......I think being a parenting is a big learning curve for all of us. I wish I had all the answers lol
O- because you are concerned that means your doing things right. Finding out info, talking to people and hearing others experiences are the right things to do. Awesome mummy
Sent from my Galaxy with the barefoot princess covering me in kisses, so please forgive the mistakes
No no Olive, there's no right and wrong. Just different things to try when you find something's not working :hug:
what Heaven said - there's no right or wrong, just what works and what doesn't (and unfortunately that can change like the wind!) for each individual child. :hug:
Not right or wrong, you just have to do what works for you and your kids. Try a variety of suggestions and go with what feels right.
I think we all wish at times that our kids came with an instruction manual! Definitely no rights or wrongs hun xo
Like the others have said, no right or wrong, but lots of ways of parenting. Its what I love about BB, I come here and there are always a wealth of information from mummas. I know I do some things very very differently to other mums, and it works for me but wouldn't work for others.
Gosh I have learnt a lot here too just reading all the responses and that Janet Lansbury blog but :hug: hun you are not doing anything wrong, as PP's mentioned, there is NO right or wrong, just different approaches and we shift the way we approach stuff all the time if it's not working. Hope you find something that will work better hun xoxox