Where to from here? Please help

Ok so DS trained straight away when he was just over 3, no hassles.

DD1 is about to turn 4 (yes, 4!!!!) and still in nappies. We tried training when she turned 3, gave it 3 months and then I couldn't handle cleaning the poo out of her undies any more so put her back in nappies. She was fine with wees - never had any accidents just would not go to the toilet or potty for a poo.

Fast forward a few months, we move up to Queensland and she seems keen to try again. So back into undies. Again, wees are fine but poo still in undies. We try multiple different treats to tempt her to go, she goes poo in the potty or toilet, gets the treat, then back to pooing in undies straight away.

We have tried everything but she just isn't motivated by treats, rewards - she doesn't care if she gets them after the first time.

So I cleaned her undies for 6 months this time, up to 3 poos a day. She never tells you when she has done a poo and by the time you smell it, it is foul and really hard to clean.

So I cracked it when she sat on the couch and did both a number 1 and number 2 in her undies. Back into nappies. It's now been about a month in nappies and she makes no attempt to go to the toilet just brings us new nappies if she knows one more wee will make her nappy explode. Flat out refuses to wee in the toilet now.

There are no medical issues. She is just, well, lazy and unmotivated to change.

How do you train someone who just doesnt care that she is the only one of her friends in nappies? She will be in kindy next year, and it's so embarrassing to take her out and receive "those" looks, like I'm an absolute crap mother because she is so tall and looks 5, but still in nappies.

How do you train them if they just don't want to and don't give a ****?

I'm out of ideas. And energy. And patience.

I feel your pain, my DD was exactly the same. I even took her to a continence clinic which didn't work. I had come to terms with the fact that she'd go go kinder in nappies, even spoke to her future kinder teacher about it.

Anyway, I just left her and one day it clicked. We were going to go swimming one afternoon but she wanted to put her bathers on in the morning so I let her and she asked me if she could go to the toilet! She never had an accident from that moment on.

My advice to you would be to leave it, don't mention toilets and just wait, she WILL do it. Until then, you just have to wait I guess.

I hated 'those looks' when I changed her nappy in a public change room too. People have no idea!

Thanks tinks, I googled and that was the basic advice from other people who have lived through it. It's so frustrating isn't it? How old was your DD when she eventually got it?

She was 4. It was a few weeks before she started kinder.

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She was 4. It was a few weeks before she started kinder.

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Ok well she turns 4 tomorrow....here's hoping lol

Maybe wait for summer, let her run around pantless, she'll have to go to the toilet some time.

I kept telling myself that she wouldn't be wearing nappies at her 21st birthday party :rofl:

I tell myself the same thing lol

Hugs babe :hug: (and yeah I can say that now cause you have a super hot bod, but that's off topic).

I have no advice as I haven't been there, but I don't think it really reflects on your parenting.... M is just an individual and you can't force any kid to learn anything.

DS2 is "trained" but he also has issues with poos. This morning I said: toilet? He responded: toilet! I took him to the toilet and said: now where do your poos go? He answered: on the floor.

Huh????? :wall:

We do get the odd poo into the toilet - only through sheer luck of a toilet trip coinciding with a need to poo. And, he also likes doing "bombies" as my husband calls them (they make the shoooooooooooooooooooooo-bksh! noise together and it seems to work). But mostly he will go and hide and poo in his pants or, on the floor (behind a curtain or under my clothes airer or on the bathroom floor).

DS was fine with wees as soon as he trained himself, but poos took about 7-8 months (he had just turned 4 when he "got" it). Sadly he doesn't recall his motivation (I did ask). But it was just time and making him clear up his underpants himself. Because poo goes... "in the loo!" DS was happy to be in a nappy until he saw his bestie using our loo (had seen him on the loo at nursery before) - he was flat-out refusing to use the loo/potty up til then, even when running around outside nude or sitting in front of the TV for up to 4 hours at a time (he was begging for a nappy at that point!).

DH tried the shaming method with both DS and me (as in, I'm a bad mother because our 4-year-old isn't perfect on the loo), which wasn't appreciated.

I totally understand - I have mega frustrations with TT. I think the key is for us to not make such a big deal out of it and try not to get wound up. She will get it - it's just a difficult social situation for parents, really!
I took DD (who is 5) to the GP last week because she has recently started wetting a bit during the day. She has never been dry at night. The doc was not concerned about nighttimes - apparently about 10% of 5yos still wet the bed. Day time stuff, well, just loads of reassurance. It's so hard not to get cranky but that only makes things worse and we just need to keep incredibly positive about their toileting 'achievements' and completely neutral when they don't manage it.
GL!

I would buy up bulk in cheapo undies and throw them out rather than washing. Although 3 poos a day still could be quite expensive. I've thrown the odd pair out at work when they are an atomic poo accident. I figure if the parent is upset, I'll just buy them another pair lol.

Did your DH seriously think shaming would work for either of you?!

My nephew is doing this at the moment, he'll be 4 in November. Wees are awesome, he doesn't even tell us he's going, he just takes himself off to the toilet. He doesn't seem to understand toilet paper though - he takes off 3 squares and either wipes his nose or just throws it in the toilet :rofl:

Poos on the other hand. Awful. I've tried constantly asking him if he needs to go; he always says no, and generally goes about 5 minutes after I've asked. I've tried bribing him to sit on the toilet for up to 45 minutes at a time; he poos within 5 minutes of getting off. He doesn't seem to recognise that he needs to go, and if by chance he's in the toilet when he starts going, he will have a complete autistic meltdown if you try and force him onto the toilet to minimise the damage. And he has a meltdown the second he finishes anyway, because he hates the feeling of it in his pants or nappy.

I'm stuck as well. If it were up to me, I'd keep him in nappies for a while longer - I hate the meltdowns he has, they're seriously traumatic for both of us. Unfortunately his parents don't agree.

I think its a timing thing, they have to be ready.
Bella wasnt ready when we first tried, but on the second go it only took 2 weeks and she never looked back! She is fully day trained and we are now working on the night time training.
I just took Bella to the loo every 30 -45 mins when we first started and half the time it was fluke that she would wee or poo. But they pick it up very easily and now she will not even let me b in the loo with her anymore!
It will happen, I know it may not seem like it - but it will xx

Three poos a day is a lot! Poor you! Are they solid? Could she have some continence issues?

Anyway, assuming all is well, I would leave it completely for two weeks and not mention potties or nappies or toilets. Just change nappies without grimacing or mentioning smells or anything.

Then I'd encourage discussion about how wonderful poo is, and how it's made from food we eat and do a 'thing' on poo. Do you have that book 'everybody poos'? Check your library.

Then I would just not offer nappies only knickers for a week and explain if you need to go, you need to use the toilet. I would try and ignore all accidents and see how she goes.

It is probably just a time thing, but for my dd she was very possessive of her poo and didn't want me to look at her etc when she needed to go. I had to normalize poo in a different way. I even took her to the toilet and talked about the way it felt coming out and then the sound and then looking at it in the toilet. I think it all needs to be demystified.

Good luck!

If it is laziness of course none if this will work, but there might be something else going on, since she would see but not poo on the toilet.

Just a quick thought... I noticed that you said that she responded to a reward the first time, then got over it. Would it help if you mixed up the rewards a bit? A client of mine made up a box of goodies - stickers, lollies, hair bands, little toys... and her DD got to take her pick from the treat box every time she completed the desired task (not TT in this case). Kept it exciting and motivating as she was always keen to get a look in the box and choose something new.

At 4, I wonder too whether she could be more involved in the clean up as a slightly negative consequence? Have to get herself undressed, wipe herself down, put soiled undies in a bucket... ?

Hugs hun it is very frustrating!!! DS1 was not interested I tryed a few times and we had tantys and screaming crying banshee child. Bought that many different toilet seats soft padded, plastic one that goes under toilet seat potty and steps with a seat!

At 3 years 7 months one day I changed him in the morning and not even 20 mins later he had pood in nappy as about to go out door to child care. I put him in undies grabbed a heap of clothes and off we went. No issues at cc no accidents but no poos there! Wees were great we only ended up with 2 wee accidents in 2 weeks both from being distracted. Poo on other hand he would scream and cry in desperation for a nappy and would be loopy. I got so over cleaning undies as he was a 3 times a day poo as well, I chucked out some undies as could not face cleaning them!

I took books to toilet and read to him, sang songs, took toys, took ipad and in the end I think it was luck! He was on loo carrying on for a min then he pooed and reslised it was not as scary as he thought, he wanted me to take a pic for daddy and send to him (pmsl things we do) we then made a huge fuss of poo and didn't look back. Was 2 weeks since he was wee toilet trained.

On his 4th bday he announced he was wearing undies to bed not a nappy as he is a big boy and touch wood no
Accidents!

Good luck hope she gets it soon to
Save you from yuck poo undies

I was in this situation with my DS2, below is the thread I started with lots of great advice.
I in the end took him to an OT as I was so stressed, he was starting 4yr Kinder in the new year and he was still pooing in jocks only.
I used to have to walk away, regroup so I could approach the clean up calmly.
In the end I just had to leave him in jocks and about half way through 4yr old kinder it all just clicked into place.
One of the kids in kinder was talking to me and DS2 as I had to go to kinder to clean DS2 up due to a pretty enormous poo in his pants. The child was not nasty or mean, just curious, just asked DS2 why he didn't poo in the toilet like the rest of his friends? I think that conversation was the breaker for DS2 and he didn't have any accidents for the rest of the Kinder year. We still have the odd one here and there, maybe every 6mths or so, usually as he is running to the toilet and hasn't been able to hold on.

Toilet training DS2 was one of the most stressful and frustrating times of my life, I hope it improves for you :hug:

https://www.bellybelly.com.au/forums...o+in+his+jocks


ETA:

A GF or mine took the softly softly approach with her very reluctant DS. First she got him confident to sit on the toilet with a nappy on and do a poo. Then after he got that idea, she then cut a hole in the nappy at the base and got him confident sitting on the toilet doing a poo that way and then after that they took the nappy completely off after he was happy and confident to sit.
For alot of kids, it's foreign sitting down to do a poo, when you think about it, when they poo in their nappy they go and find a quiet place and stand an poo. For some kids the idea of sitting is frightening and without the security of a nappy, they feel like something is falling out and don't like the sensation or the splash back.

Could you try a different tack - maybe get a set of the days of the week undies and try to get her to pick/wear the right ones?
I do tend to agree with the try not to worry approach tho - she will do it eventually. One of the few things the kids can control???
xxx

Back while I get the chance to respond.

Heather - she's not afraid of the toilet splashing, she's done a few in the toilet, just no motivation to keep going once its done. That cutting away the nappy is how my brother trained his son though, but I can't even get her into the toilet in the first place. She has discussed poos with her cousin who is 4 months older and toilet trained, but the conversation didn't motivate her to change from nappies to undies.

San - I've tried the different things as well, I had a chart that had different shapes on it, and for each one she did, each shape meant 3 or 4 things she could pick from. That was the most successful, she did 2 poos in a row that time LOL.. I don't think she would be motivated to clean herself, she would just flat out refuse to do it.

Arcadia - yeah thats her normal pooing pattern. Sometimes she gets a bit clogged up and we give her movicol, but mostly its 3 a day, sometimes they are hard, sometimes they are loose-ish, but nothing out of the ordinary. I haven't got that book though, so I'll look for it. For the most part, we are calm now, and we just change her, and we don't make a fuss. Which is fine since she's in nappies.

Mak - we sort of tried that when she was in daycare, she knew she had to wear undies that day and she was fine with that - she would poo on the way home in her undies - frustrating! lol

Thanks everyone, she said the other day that she would poo in the toilet when she turned 4, well today's the day, and I've cleaned one poo already (in a nappy) and she came to me straight after doing it and said "mum I've done a poo, I missed doing it in the toilet". I told her it didn't matter, there's always next time to get it in there.

So who knows - maybe she will train before she's 5 LOL

My DS refused to poo. His was caused through trauma from chronic constipation issues.

Are you certain that she is not still undergoing the constipation cycle? Just going from your post, she should from my understanding (no matter how many poos she is doing) be doing a 3-4 on the bristol stool chart, so that is sausages without any hard lumps, no struggling to pass, no pain. The fact that you are using movicol occasionally suggests to me (and Im no doctor and my definitely be bias towards constipation lol!) that she is not past the constipation cycle. If you have prolonged unresolved constipation then it becomes hard for them to recognise the need to go all the time until the body is pushing it out against her knowledge.

Something you can try is the books to normalise pooing. We have three different ones, wheres the poo, everybody poos and another one I cant think of from the top of my head. My other suggestion is to modify your toilet routine. DO NOT mention poo, just put her on the toilet after every meal, for 5 minutes at least. Give her a rewards for sitting and then another if she poos. We used this method with DS and within days he moved past toileting refusal! Might be worth another shot. Consistency is the key also. Good luck.

Ìts rare that we use movicol. I'm sorry if my post sounded like we use it all the time, its rare that we need to use it.