Fatigue or PND?

I'm not sure what I'm feeling/experiencing is just fatigue, or if I should see my GP about PND symptoms.

During the day DS (2 weeks) sleeps well, sometimes for up to 5 hours between feeds. At night between 8pm and 1am he'll feed every 1 or 2 hours, which would be ok if he slept between feeds. He is wide awake. Last night he didn't nod off till 2.30am after being awake since DH got home from work at 6 (he will fall asleep while you hold him but scream the minute you put him down). Needless to say I'm shattered.

More to the point.. during the night I resent DS. I hate having to feed him, I hate trying in vain to burp him and rock him to sleep for hours, to put him down and have him start howling. Not whinging then dozing off, I mean howling. I try to fed him to sleep but that doesn't work. I've started using a dummy which settles him, only for him to open his eyes, spit it out and howl again. I feel totally useless and incompetent. It is so hard, my head pounds, my vision is blurred and I can't get up because I get dizzy and faint. I don't want to do it and I start wishing I could go back and not get pregnant. I'm in tears every night to the point of hyperventilating.

DH has started sleeping in the spare room during the week and insists I can bring DS to him when he's unsettled, but when I have he gets cranky and looks at me like I'm incompetent and should be able to do this (may be in my head because during normal awake hours he is hands on and burps DS after every feed, changes him and puts him down to sleep). But I feel so %!@#ing lonely and desperate when DH is in the other room and I hate that he's in there because of DS. I'm scared out of my mind our relationship is going to be neglected.

Last night I got rough with DS, slamming the dummy quite forcefully into his mouth and yelling at him to shut up. Instantly I realised what I'd done and burst into tears then ran to get DH. I wonder how I'm going to cope like this for another night, let alone in a week or month... During the day mum comes over and does all the housework and looks after DS while I have a short sleep. But how long can that go on for? When do I start doing my own washing etc? I can't rely on mum to pretty much run my house for the rest of my life.

Don't get me wrong, I love my son and I want the best for him. My nipples ache from breastfeeding, I'm famished because I barely get an opportunity to eat. I just don't feel like I'm the best mother for him. I'm not half the mother I thought I would be. I knew it'd be hard but I wrongly expected he would sleep for at least an hour between feeds.

Are these feelings normal? Or should I be considering professional help?

:(

First, big hugs. You sound really tired to me. Perfectly understandable with the hours your little man has you doing.
Five hours during the day is a long time. I would suggest waking him for feeds every three hours. A five hour stretch is great over night but during the day I personally would wake him. He is still a new born and needs to make up for that big sleep with that cluster of feeds he is doing in the night.
I would start with waking him every three hours during the day for a feed to try and get him to swap his pattern around. I would be sleeping when he does, I would try and elevate one end of his cot and also discuss the possibility of reflux with your gp.
Make sure you eat and drink, even if its a vegemite sandwich and a glass of water. Get some sleep and talk to your dh about how you are feeling and get him to make sure you are having a sleep in the day over the weekend and also ask him to make you lunch and be on you about eating.
After a week of two to three hour sleeps then feed during the day and catching up on sleep yourself, if u are still very teary then, yes go chat with your gp. But I think it's most likely that you are very sleep deprived. Let your body recover, sleep eat, drink. You are important so make sure you do!

I agree with Fiona. Sounds like you are so sleep deprived that it is now affecting your ability to function normally. Also, agree with the possible reflux - could even be silent reflux where bubs doesn't actually spit up anything but the milk & acid rise up then they swallow it again - it burns coming up & going down, so bubs would be in pain. Elevating the cot can help alot & also keeping them more upright for longer periods, even after burping may help. My gf used to put her son in the rocker for a bit - slightly elevated and once he was old enough in a walker type thing.
To elevate the cot you can do two things - bricks under the legs of the head end or rolled up towel under the matress & base.
When your mum is over can you ask her to help prepare something to eat for you - just b/c it isn't 12pm doesn't mean you can't eat a sandwich like Fiona suggested. Meals don't have to be at certain times, just when you are hungry or get a chance.

I agree with what others have said and also I think it's important to remember that your ds is still very young and your hormones may still be taking a nose dive from birth. It can be very normal to feel low just now. That said, you do sound like you could benefit from some extra support like a lot of new mums. Have you told your maternal and child health nurse how you are feeling? She may be able to help you feel better. There is also a terrific organisation in perth called the Raphael centre http://www.sjog.org.au/other_service...e_subiaco.aspx that are specialists in pnd and you can self refer. Even just calling them for a chat might give you some idea if you need pnd support or not. Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.

The transition to motherhood is enormous so its pretty normal to have a rough start. I agree with the reflux thing and would just add you should keep your little man upright for at least 15 minutes after a feed and also give him deep baths.

Where abouts did you birth LN? St John's at Subiaco have great post birth programmes for new mums and I think they're open to everyone. Also the Raphael Centre is brilliant and offers group and one on one counselling.

Definitely eat, drink and sleep. If you (or your mum) makes a sandwich, make two. It takes no more time really and gives you a ready made snack. Get your DH to buy you some tasty ready made meals so all youi need to do is microwave. Try and get out in the fresh air. Its so important for your mental health.

Sit your DH down and explain how you feel. You need his support and just having him next to you can help, and he can take your DS once you've fed him for burping, cuddles and settling.

Pls let me know if you need some help, if your mum can't make it or something. I'm here if you just need to talk or have a cry. Has your CHN done her home visit yet? Talk to her about how you're feeling.

Normal! I also used to feel lonely in the night and Dh was right beside me. For me the loneliness was the fact I had to do the lions share myself ie I had the boobs!!

Try and tackle on thing at a time. Accept you and Dh will not be the same and there is time to work on that when ds is sleeping better. Accept your mums help!!! It won't be forever either.

I would feed ds more in the day and then at night feed every three hours and in between use a dummy or rock or pat or even just sit and watch tv. My ds was always awake from 4:30am and I just sat and watched tv (and prayed he'd go back to sleep before dd woke up!)

Go easy on yourself. Reflect on your mothering skills after a few years not a few weeks! It's ok to have L plates!!

Hugs Hun. Those early days are lovely but completely overwhelming. Sit your DH down and tell him how you're feeling, and be specific with things he can do to help you. Often the menfolk just need to know what exactly to do.

Eat during the night. I used to have a muesli bar while I was up at night feeding. Buy yourself some healthy prepackaged foods that you can just grab. And maybe take an iron supplement? I felt so much better after that.

Hang in there - you're doing a great job. And do get bugs checked for reflux - don't wait til the 6 week check xoxo

I totally can relate to how you're feeling. Our DS1 was a nightmare introduction to parenthood. He had reflux and screamed. A lot. Although it feels like forever, this newborn phase will eventually end. Babies have to get used to Day/Night which is the reverse of when they were in utero (ie getting rocked to sleep during the day and being active and kicking at night when you were still and trying to sleep). We just had our third bub this year and I was amazed at the 3 hrs of unsettled/screaming/crying every evening. WTF? I couldn't remember this with the previous two babies. This eventually too will subside.
You mention that you're worried how you will cope when your mum is no longer helping out so much, but hopefully by that point, things should settle a little for you all. Can you ask her to still help out as long as possible? Even if it's slowly reducing the amount of hands on help? As others have mentioned, eat, eat, sleep when the baby sleeps - it's like a marathon getting through the first few months and you are doing the best that you can.
I get frustrated with my bub and have to walk away and hand over to DH. Oh the things I have said to my kids over the years and the slamming of doors etc. It's amazing what a good night's sleep can do to your whole outlook and right now, it doesn't sound like you're getting enough sleep.

Here's a few practical strategies I can think of that might help:
* Re:feeling dizzy etc, try taking a liquid iron supplement - giving birth and then breastfeeding sucks up your iron levels and can take months to boost back up. Liquid iron is absorbed more quickly than tablets (just make sure you take it with orange juice or vitamin c tablet etc).
* As others have mentioned, check out local supports. I spent a week at sleep school with my first bub and it was the best thing I ever did. I gave me space and support to just focus on getting b/f nailed and recognising early tired cues, the feed/play/sleep cycle and when to get bub back to bed before they are overtired and it becomes impossible etc. All meals were provided, no housework, just me and bub time and Dh could stay over too after work, plus it normalized just how hard babies are and that other mums are feeling the same way.
* Re: feeding - if it's a real struggle, you can express a feed in advance (hard work if you're already stuffed) or ask your DH to do a night bottle to give you a break.
Infacol from the supermarket or chemist is good at helping get the wind up. You give it to them before a feed and I found the burping was much easier. Also maybe ask your MCHN for a few different ways of burping and use the one that works best.

Lastly, you are not useless or incompetent. You are learning a new job, that you've never done before, under really stressful conditions and the goal posts will change daily/weekly in the first month or more. You're in the hardest part, right now. It won't get much harder than this and if you're open to asking for support on BB, then I'd suggest asking for lots of other support around you. Our society does new mum/parenting, really badly, leaving new mums to figure it out on their own.
Talk to Dh about how you're feeling and tell him what you need him to do (most guys are good if you spell it out). We've had 3 kids and it was an understanding b/w us that it was tag teaming in the first few months. Other couples are different. I'd b/f, he would settle bubs.
Sorry for the thesis! I love to type. Anyway, no mum or dad is perfect. We all get frustrated and loose our cool (I've texted DH calling our DS a SLF. stupid little F) before. If you are concerned about your feelings and think it could be PND, definately speak to your MCHN or GP for more support. Take care of yourself,

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Normal! I also used to feel lonely in the night and Dh was right beside me. For me the loneliness was the fact I had to do the lions share myself ie I had the boobs!!

Try and tackle on thing at a time. Accept you and Dh will not be the same and there is time to work on that when ds is sleeping better. Accept your mums help!!! It won't be forever either.

I would feed ds more in the day and then at night feed every three hours and in between use a dummy or rock or pat or even just sit and watch tv. My ds was always awake from 4:30am and I just sat and watched tv (and prayed he'd go back to sleep before dd woke up!)

Go easy on yourself. Reflect on your mothering skills after a few years not a few weeks! It's ok to have L plates!!

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Top post Arcadia - agree with eveything you've said.

The first few days/weeks are damn hard Lady Neon. Even those of us getting some sleep still feel very weary and strung out at times.
I can vouch for a meltdown moment or two where I swore black and blue at DS3 to "go the (insert numerous expletives) to sleep".

Hugs hun - you're doing well so cut yourself some slack xx

Huge hugs LN! It's normal to feel like this when you are sleep deprived and hormone are all over the place! I've had PND with some of my babies and not had it with others, and have felt like this in the early days of all.

You and your DS have already through a lot! I shall tell you what many people have told me (especially when DS3 was in the special care nursery)
Be easy on yourself, you are physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausted!

It's quite common for babies to have day and night mixed up, in fact DS3 did until he was about 3 weeks. I spend most of his first 2 weeks walking around in a daze and crying at nothing!
Truthfully sleep when he does, if he sleeps for 5 hrs you sleep then too.

Sorry had to cut short DS3 refluxing.

Thanks ladies. Last night was a win! I fed him at 7.30, he then slept from 9 bit I woke him at 10.30 to feed, then he slept from 12-4, and 5-8! Stoked.

I did start to feel a bit teary towards 5am after his feed, but DH got him to sleep (and also came back from the spare roomwhich helped). My mum is still coming over shortly just so we can both catch up on sleep.

DS was checked for reflux at the children's hospital and they didn't seem to think he has it.

That's good to hear LN. Even if he hasn't got reflux many tiny babies have trouble burping and the wind gets trapped causing pain.

Rest well LN.

Burping can be "fun" For want of a better phrase. I ended up giving up trying to burp ds2 very early on as he didn't seem to need it - it would take ages to get the smallest of burps. However he would end up having lots of bottom wind and needed help to get rid of that instead. Apparently DH can get burps out now after ds2 has an ebm bottle but childcare still can't get too many burps either after feeds (& I still can't).

Great news that you had a better night's sleep LN. Crossing everything you get another like it tonight

Lady neon I feel for you and LOTS of us have been there. My first child is 8 months and a big challenge for me in the early months was to stop feeling guilty. About watching tv while breast feeding. About not yet feeling that euphoric love everyone described. About not going to work, not keeping the house in order, not feeling smitten with my husband anymore. But someone on here gave me excellent advice- and that was to give in to bunkering down with baby and not giving a thought to anything else. Let hubby and mum help- in fact ask for it. If you wonder if hubby is resentful or annoyed that's ok too but don't let that get in the way of you asking for what you need. The other beautiful advice I was given was to create a corner or a stash for yourself while bunkering down. A bag or basket or box with things you need easy access to when spending long periods sitting or lying with baby, something you can take from the couch to the chair to the bed etc. these are the things I had in my stash-

Bottle of water
Healthy but filling snacks - sandwiches, nuts, crackers, fruit, chocolate (yes it's healthy ;) ), muesli bars, those up n go drinks
Tv remote
iPhone
Laptop
Lip balm
Nipple cream
Tissues
A couple of cloths in case bubba sicks up or if my boobs squirt milk everywhere
Magazines/books
A throw for keeping mama and/or bubba warm

You will get through this- take it one day at a time and try not to forward-project too much. And my baby mantra is- everything is temporary, this too shall pass.

As for PND- only you can answer that. In any case finding a centre or professional to vent to will always be beneficial no matter what the formal 'prognosis' is.

LN, so glad to hear last night was a good night. I hope you managed to get some rest.

LN I hope each day you are able to get more rest. :)

So glad you had a better night LN.

I won't repeat what the other ladies have said, other than to reiterate that sleep deprivation is pure torture and makes it very tough to cope. You need to take care of yourself hon. One of the best pieces of advice I got was this - like when you fly, fit your own mask before helping others. Take 10 minutes to eat something, have a big glass of water or step out into the sunshine and get that vitamin D on your skin.

If you find your feelings continue, please talk to someone. Don't let it get to a point where you're struggling every day for weeks on end. As a PND sufferer talking to my GP about it was the best thing I did.

You're doing a wonderful job with NO training! You can do this - but it's ok to get help to do it.

Big hugs. It will get better xxx