Need suggestions for DD's sleep

Another sleep thread about DD, yay. But I've just realised that I'm about to have a newborn on top of this and I'm freaking out about what I'm going to do.

DD has been a terrible sleeper since 6 months old...pretty much when she started teething. She's been teething pretty much constantly since then, they take ages to come through, going up and down, and when they finally do, more start. The only teeth she has yet to cut are the 36 month molars or whatever they are, the very back ones. Her eye teeth are cut but still coming down. Amber necklace has done nothing to help her unfortunately, and I suspect she's actually sensitive to painkillers, because we actually found she was worse on Panadol and Nurofen. Anyways.

We have a good night routine, good sleep cues for naps. I've been adaptive, gone with her cues, gone with the flow, gone by a million different routines of my own making...nothing really works. She takes ages to put to sleep and I'm really not okay with it anymore. I'm so scared of having a newborn who needs my attention and having to spend an hour plus trying to get DD to sleep. I'd really love to be able to pop her in her bed, close the door (or heck, even just sit in the room with her) and she could eventually go off to sleep. I'd even be happy with patting her etc. But she just plays, or tantrums...hard. Screaming, crying until she gags, kicking and hitting. I've tried popping her in her bed and leaving...she howls, it's traumatising for her, she runs to the door and screams and bangs on it. There are two ways to get her to sleep; Daddy bounces her in his arms in her room, usually for 30-90 minutes. Often, she will wake up when put down and cry and scream, so it's another 30 minutes getting her back to sleep. Half the time, DH can't do it anymore and will give her to me. She's too heavy for me to be holding while pregnant (SPD), so I will lay with her in our bed, pat her back, stroke her hair etc. This is for day naps too. We have special music we've used for about 6 months now we play while we put her to sleep. We've tried no music and it's worse. For me, she will either try to get up and play, or scream and tantrum. Everything is a tantrum these days, but especially her sleep. We've tried later bedtimes, earlier bedtimes,two naps, one nap, no naps. All terrible. There's no pattern or predictability.

What can we do? What methods can we try? It was easier when she was BF. at this stage and the age she is, I'm not 100% adverse to letting her whinge a little...seeing as she's crying constantly throughout the day, and when we try to get her to sleep anyway, I see little difference. But she gets very genuinely distressed and I'm not willing to let her get to that stage, which she does almost instantly, so those types of methods are out.

So yeah, any ideas? Help? :(

ETA it feels like one of those things that we just have to keep pushing through. Thing is, we've been pushing through for the last 11 months. I'm tired of pushing through. I literally am at a loss for what I will do with two kids when one needs all this time dedicated to getting to sleep. And okay, when Amey's a newborn it may not be too bad, but what about when she's older and more mobile?

I'm starting to doubt whether I should even cosleep with Amey, I know that's silly but all that talk of 'making a rod in your own back' that MIL and mum harped on about feels true right now :( I just want my children to be as contented and safe as I can make them feel.

Is she in a bed or cot? DD was in her cot till 2.5 because I knew we would be having another baby before then and it was easier to put her to bed in her cot when we had a new born too. I started putting her in and sitting in the room - she knew I was there but I was not touching her. If she was happy I would kiss her tuck her in and leave. If she was upset - wingy not hysterical I would lay her back down and sit on the floor. If she got up and I would repeat and sit on the floor untill she drifted off. It didnt take long and we could lay her down - sit on he floor and 10 mins latter she was sound asleep. The cot heloed keep her "contained" as such not that we left her if she was really upset - just she could keep getting up and down all the time!

She sleeps in her own room now at night, has done for a few months. If I'm putting her to sleep, she'll fall asleep in our bed, then DH will transfer her. I can't put her to sleep or transfer we to her bed at night or for day sleeps, because her bed is so close to the floor and I can't get down there. Left alone, she'll nap during the day for 30 mins to an hour. If I'm lying with her she'll sometimes make 2 hours, but more than not it's 1 hour. She wakes up 3-6 times a night still.

If we have all the sides on the cot, she gets even more distressed. The cot we have is too low with all the sides up now (if we raised or she can climb out and it's a fair drop) so it's set up like a bed with one side off.

No real advice, but just wanted to say my DS also has a real cot aversion (seems to be the sides) so he is now on mattress on the floor (no good for you while pregnant) and is also a horror to get to sleep (he pokes his eyes to try and stay awake!) but I did exactly the same with him as did with DD, and he is so opposite in sleep patterns to her - so you can do the same and end up with complete opposite - so if you want to co-sleep (we have always done on and off) with number 2 do it - better you do what feels right and you may or may not end up with a difficult sleeper - than do something you are not so comfortable with and still end up with the same result.

I am sure also have read a few times about where number 1 child has started sleeping much better right when number 2 arrives - is like they have a sixth sense or something about how much you can cope with.

DS was a bit bigger when DD came along, but it was a similar struggle. I had DD in the cot for about 10 weeks. It was just easier. I didn't trust ex, so couldn't sleep deeply with her in the bed & I often had DS in my bed too. So didn't want him kicking her. Her & DS were always in their bed next to mine til the first feed. Then they slept in with me.

I used to sit with DS til he crashed out. But he was pretty easy. I still have to sit with him & he still comes into my bed almost every night, but he sleeps.

DD is harder. She sounds similar to your DD. We go to bed at 8pm every night. All of us. I turn every light in the house off at this time. That way its boring because they can't see anything. DD will still get up & wander around, but I just wait for her to come back.
I lay in her bed, quietly. She will carry on & jump around & play. I just keep laying her down & telling her to close her eyes. Eventually she does settle, but it can take an hour or so.

It will get better. If you start one routine, stick to it. Don't do it for a few weeks & try something new. Stick to that one for a few months at least. When you have the baby, you can feed her while sitting in the room with DD. You can hand her over to DP too. It won't be as bad as you think it'll be. And there's nothing wrong with having 2 babies in your bed. I've done it. I'm still doing it, I just don't have a partner on the other side.

You'll learn that whatever works, works. If they're in your bed for the next 5 years, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

Sounds very hard :hug:

You mention that you think she reacts to the medication.... Have you considered trying dietary changes? It could be she has a sensitivity to preservatives or salycilates or something else like that, which can often result in difficult behaviour, sleep problems, etc, etc. (This is my *thing* at the moment seeing the difference in my kids after going failsafe)

We ended up putting the mattresses on the floor and sleeping as a family. Not ideal. But it worked. We still often all end up in one room (we have 2 double mattresses on the floor) to sleep. Even DD who is 5 1/2 will still come in sometimes.
I used to feed DS1 and pat DD but she never tantrumed or screamed she just couldn't settle herself to sleep and cried if I left her. When DS2 came along, I did the same with DS1. I laid in bed DS2 on the boob and DS1 and DD was on her own bed. As long as I was in the room she was happy, but I had to be with DS1 in the bed or he wouldn't settle. Now they're bigger I can just sit with DS2 on his bed, and sit in the room with the bigger kids until they fall asleep.

I was staring down the barrel of three kids waking at night when I was pregnant with #3 - DS was waking once or twice, DD was waking with massive screaming sessions and I was 8 months pregnant. I ended up crying to the health nurse at a public latch on event lol.

I am certainly no sleep expert 'cos I can't even get my own kids to sleep but I would get her into a single/king single bed. Put her to sleep in there during the day, teach her to climb down properly when she wakes (my 13 month old gets off my bed after day naps). Send your DH in to resettle her/co-sleep when she wakes during the night. It will be a rough ride for a few nights as she gets used to DH settling her, but then it is easy (or at least his problem, not yours lol).

Have you tried a later bedtime? Sometimes it is better for the sanity to put them to bed at 9.30 and have it take 10 minutes rather than aiming for 8pm and taking an hour.

I'm going to offer some different ideas although I think the other posters have some great suggestions. Does she watch any TV yet? Is she into any of those kids shows on ABC kids? Many of them have CD's or on itunes you can download story tracks only (no video) so you could get her to lie down and "listen to the story." What about one of those baby lights that shines lights and plays music at the same time? Perhaps your DD is now associating bedtime with negativity and making it a bit more fun but still calming/relaxing might break that cycle. Can you give her a little torch of her own to play with when it's bed time? Does she have a dolly? Can you try and get to her to lie quietly with her dolly stroking it's back while you sit in the room and sing to her quietly or tell her a story in the dim light?

We pat my DD when she goes to bed. It's less than ideal and sometimes we are in there for 20 minutes or so. She was one of those kids where I could put her in and shut the door and just changed in the last 6 months or so. I think kids go through phases. It's hard, especially when you are pregnant. I really feel for you and I hope that one of these ideas works for you guys.

I second what Artechim said about a later bedtime. I was on my own for a month while DP was away and just got sick of it taking more than an hour to get DD2 to sleep so I just put her to bed at 9pm. My mum said she used to put me to bed at midnight because she got sick of battling me :)

Also think about getting rid of the daytime nap. I know she's very young still but maybe just try it for a few days and see if that brings her bedtime forward. My DD needs 12 hours solid awake time (I know she's older but at least working out her pattern has made it easier for me to predict what time her bedtime will be)

Good point about the awake time too - my 13 month old lasts about 8 hours after a nap, so if she wakes any later than 1pm I know I am in for a late night. She has a 3pm absolute cut-off where I just won't let her go to sleep.

I recently stopped feeding my DD to sleep. I have implemented the Shihad method: We dance to Pacifier, then move to walking with her head on my shoulder and by the end of Comfort Me she is asleep - never fails! Sort of a distraction thing, rather than a 'you have to go to sleep' thing itms.

Thanks guys! I'll respond to this properly later when I'm on the laptop, because I want to reply individually and it's too hard on the iPhone.

DD1 went through a rough patch when DD2 was about 2 months old so she was a little older than your dd. We ended up sitting on a chair in her room until she settled and over about two weeks we moved the chair to the door way then hall then the living area. She would ask if we were still watching her and we would say yes, it was about reassuring her that we were still there even if she couldn't see us. I would sit on the chair feeding dd2.

My girls were in single beds at just over 18months and have never hurt themselves falling/getting out of bed. DD2 has rolled out but was confused more than anything. Do you think a low single bed might work? I hope things improve before Miss A arrives xx

ETA dd2 was over 3 when she rolled out of bed

I haven't got much advice abt sleeping but with teething I found homeopath works really well. Chamomilla is usually the recommended one.

There is also another school of thought - is she to over tired from the day? My DD is 4 next month and she still sleeps 2+hrs in the day - if she doesnt she is a night mare to get to sleep! DS is the same - good sleep during the day = great sleep at night. Ill never forget my MCHN said "Sleep prmotes Sleep" and it is 100% true in our house :)

Have you looked into jay Gordan again??
As you may remember I used his method but adjusted to suit us (we did it in her cot)

i agree with the suggestion of a king single bed for dd. it was a winner here. it meant dh could help settle her while being comfortable. I found it too difficult to get up again (i was pg too), so put a comfy chair next to DDs bed.

even if you don't get things under control by when baby arrives, you will get through. i sometimes bf baby while sitting next to dd in her bed reading a story. or bf baby and then rocked him in a rocker with a hand or foot while feeding/working with dd. my dh does shift work, so i don't always have a second pair of hands and we have all survived so far!

could it be that she is just really overtired so constantly fighting sleep and possibly not napping enough during the day? even now at 21 months DD still sleeps like 2-3hrs during the day. Perhaps if you could spend a few days just constantly watching her tired times, and if there's some sort of pattern, maybe trying to put her down even 30 minutes earlier? It may help with the screamy crankiness.
Does she like you singing to her? I found when DD was going through a stage of this, i'd sing her a song (Mockingbird) and she loved it. even if she was screaming id still keep singing to her and usually after a little bit she'd calm down. I also used to sing it at other times during the day so it wasnt just a bed time song.

Mkay, big response coming up. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm constantly saying 'yep, tried that, didn't work'. It's not that I'm not very grateful for your suggestions (I am!) but it really is a bit like that here, I feel like we've tried so much already! I absolutely howled my eyes out putting her down for her second nap today, she was tired and just fought and fought until she was overtired. I've nutted out a few things I want to try though.

Wysiwyg - that's really reassuring, thank you. My instincts tell me to cosleep, it makes waking up for feeds and feeding so much easier, and I just love it. I've also heard that sometimes older siblings sleep picks up a bit when the next one came along, hope that's the case here!

Clover - thank you. DH does all of the night settling...I'd go mad if he didn't. He also has started working really easy short shifts in the early evening, so he's beginning to be home during the day too. He will bounce her to sleep, generally pretty effectively. We've tried letting her wander, because all the lights etc do go off when we try and put her to bed. She will just tantrum that she can't get into the bathroom or will play for hours before whinging and whining. We usually stick to a new routine for at least a month, it's generally pretty obvious what is going to work and what won't by 2-3 weeks.

MadB, I've read you mention this before and I'm really interested to know more, where do I start? DD seemed to be more irritable and restless, maybe had a tummy ache too, when we were giving her painkillers. I'm not sure if it was related or not, but it's worth trying with the diet changes. It's not something we've tried before so definitely worth looking into, seeing as all this madness with her sleep started at 6 months...which is when she started teething, but I also realised last night, was when we started introducing solids.

3LM - I wish that would work with DD, but I don't think it would. I lie with her, stroke her hair and back, pat her bum etc and she gets up, throws herself around, cries, tries to play, tantrums when I don't let her etc. She'd probably squash a feeding DD2 lol

Arte - I think this might be key. She is used to sleeping in our bed, I think getting her her own bed (we'd get her a double) would help a lot. Because at the moment, due to me not being able to get on the floor, I'm putting her to sleep in our bed and DH puts her to sleep in her room. If she had her own bed, either DH or I could put her to sleep there, it would be more constant for her. DH already does all the night settling and usually ends up staying in there and sleeping with her after the second or third wake up, we have another cot mattress on the floor. We've tried all sorts of bedtimes, from 7.30 until 10.30. Her average time she tends to fall asleep has been about 9.30 since birth, but lately she'll cry etc and push that to 10.30 or 11. It generally takes 45 minutes to put her to bed at night, and an hour during the day.


Starangelk - I love that idea. I think you're right, I think she may have had a lot of pain or something, maybe was sick for a while, and had a hard time sleeping, and has now associated bedtime with that. I love the idea of the audiobooks and the projector. I'm going to get onto that ASAP and make it part of this new routine we're trying to nut out. Again, I think getting her a proper double bed will make her feel more at home too. We have special music we listen to, but it's possible she has some negative associations with that too.

Fionas - I'll give her a go with no daytime nap. Generally though, in fact always, she is wrecked after being up for about 3 hours. If she even only has one nap a day, she really struggles and it's just constant whinging and crying.

Novella - Good to know about the beds. I'm definitely not worried about DD rolling out, she's good at getting out of our bed which is taller than her lol. So a nice low frame double should be fine I reckon. Plus we have a spare cot mattress that we got just for putting next to her bed in case she falls out.

Veus - Thanks. I haven't heard of them but I'll look it up. We tried the Brauers homeopathic stuff and didn't find it made a difference unfortunately.

Jakabella - I feel like she's overtired about 30 minutes after a nap honestly! I'm not sure why. We've tried no naps, 3 naps as everything inbetween and there hasn't been a huge difference. She's always changing what works lol. This morning she napped an hour and a half after she woke up and had a really good sleep, then refused to sleep until she had a brief nap at 3...she was exhausted since about 12 but wouldn't sleep.

Olive - I was reading about it last night actually. Definitely having another look into it now.

HotI - that's reassuring. It's good to remember that hey, sometimes we just get by, because we have to. It's good to know there are people put there who have done it before that I can cry to for help lol!

Hope - I spend every day watching for tired signs lol. Even if I go an hour before she shows any signs, we get the same. Like I said before, she seems constantly overtired, she definitely often looks overtired. It's weird.

The other thing I've noticed, I don't know whether it's a problem, but it bothers me.

DD has developed over maybe the last 4 or so months a weird comfort habit. She bites the fur off her teddy. She can get quite OTT with it, have quite a lot of fur in her mouth (bit smaller than a 5c piece) and she'll just bite and bite, then pop her dummy in, then bite and bite, then pop her dummy in. She's started wanting to suck/chew on my hair too, while her dummy is also in her mouth. I find the hair one gross and obviously not convenient, and I just plain don't like it. DH just gets frustrated by the teddy biting, but we don't know how to stop her, why she's doing it, if we even should stop her etc.

OK, we're doing failsafe, more or less. I won't lie to you - it's full on and hard work. Google failsafe and fed up, you'll get the idea.
Looking back, I really think both my kids got worse with food and now we know they're both sensitive to salycilates. Symptoms = frequent waking, irritability, tantrums, etc. Salycilates are in all fruit and most veg and a bunch of other things besides. We can have pears and bananas (as we're ok with amines), and a small range of vegies. This gives you some idea of the restrictions on the diet!
If you really want to explore this, I'd suggest talking to a dietician to plan out what you're going to do. you really need to do it properly - otherwise it just won't work and you'll be wasting your energy. So, best to attempt when you feel ready to take on a project. Possibly this is not this time... depends how motivated you are and how much help you have with meal planning and preparation. It's something that will take months, not a few days or weeks.

It will work out ok - you'll figure out something to get you through with two children, just as you have with one. It just takes time and a bit of trial and error.

ETA - I think my DD has eaten a fair percentage of the fur off her teddy. gross.

Hmm, yeah. It's definitely something we are considering doing, but I'd be kidding myself if I said now was the right time to take on something so significant. Maybe when DD2 is bigger, when I have time and energy to really focus on it.

Well, it's been an hour and counting trying to get DD down to sleep. DH has come home and taken over. I'm so demoralised :(

PZ - hugs to you. Sometimes, I get sick of doing the dinner/bath/bed thing on my own for days on end and 'cheat' and put on a DVD. DD2 often falls asleep to that and then I just pop her into bed. Again, she might be a bit young. But most kids seem to like In The Night Garden.

Another thing that works with DD2 is finding the right book. I found that if I read ones that were too simple and repetitive, she got to know them really easily and would then keep herself awake being Mrs Pointy Pointy. The feminist in me hates reading her fairy stories about princesses etc. but I find the longer ones much better and they don't have repetitive phrases in them. Depending on what time we start, she often falls asleep after a few pages. Other times might take much, much longer. Again, the key for her is what time we start to try putting her down to bed.

I know you're pretty incapacitated at the moment so can't really take her out but if DH is sometimes around during the day can he take her out for a walk. DD2 really needs physical exercise as she doesn't burn off much energy at home.

I really hope you find something that works. I know how demoralising it is to be spending all that time trying to get a little one to sleep.

Big hugs PZ - it's such a hard time. Hang in there, the sleep thing is tough. Xx

:hug: pz I wish there was something I could do to help more :(
Could she still be hungry when you're putting her to sleep? I found when dd was super averse to going to sleep I offered some food (something easy like.yoghurt, toddler food, etc) and then tried again straight after.
Could you start asking her if she wants to go to sleep? I found dd also responded better to that when I asked, even if she said no I would wait 5-10mins and if she was clearly tired and stroppy I'd say something like "I think you're tired, let's go have sleepy time" or even start saying sleep time is imminent? Perhaps she doesn't like things sprung on her? :dunno: could she be bored and giving what look like tired signs but she's actually bored and doesn't want to sleep?

Hey PZ. I have a suggestion that you may want to try which worked for us. It sounds similar to CIO but is actually very different. You know how in CIO you put them in their cot and leave them for increasing amounts of time while they cry (grizzle etc.)? Well what we did was pop DS in the cot and cuddle or pat him till he was happy. Then I would take off my hand for a few seconds and before he could start to cry, I would start to pat/cuddle again. Then I would do it again but would slightly increase the time that I wasn't cuddling/patting etc. The key is to always get back to them before they cry or get upset. You can then create an anticipation in them that you will be coming back, and you can build up the time that you are away from them. If your DD already has a strong aversion to the cot (e.g. you can't put her down at all) then I would start doing this in more of a neutral/positive territory like your bed, or a new bed. While you are still in the new stages of doing this, you can stay in their room and just keep busy with folding nappies, or something so you are not totally focused on them but they know you are still around, making sure you give them some gentle (not too exciting) encouragement every now and then that you are still around, like humming. Over time you can build them up to a self-settling state but using a totally different psychological mechanism than CIO. This way, they learn to believe you will be coming back and they don't need to cry to have you return. Once DS was about 2 he was even really good at self settling in other people's houses because he could trust that when I said I would come back and check, that I would. Anyway, it may be something to try :) Hope this helps.

Pz, RE: hair/fluff issue - my friend is going through something similar with her almost 9 year old DD.

Her DD uses hair for comfort. Has done since she was only a few months old. Its at the point now that she hardly has any hair on her head, because she twirls so excessively & it just breaks. She's also a thumb sucker.

For her its stress/anxiety & habit. Every time her stress levels are up, the habit gets worse. When her stress levels are down, her hair starts to grow back in again. She didn't start the twirling of her own hair til she was about 3, but needed hair in her hand for comfort from a very early age. She was taking it from brushes at about your DD's age. Finding it on the floor before that.

Its not something I'd get too worried about for now. But I'd keep an eye on it & try to deter when you can, just to avoid it turning into a bigger problem. So maybe hide that teddy & keep your hair tied back?

Could you being stressed about everything be rubbing off on her? Affecting sleep as well as causing her new habits? Not saying you're stressing her out, but you have a lot going on, & have for a while now & she maybe picking up on that?

once dd was used to falling asleep in her bed, we did a similar thing to krysalyss. before that i(or dh) was sitting by her bed until she went to sleep and we would be there for hours every night and it was getting longer.

I did similar to krysalyss - I told DD that the rule was she had to stay in bed and stay quiet and that if she didn't, then in the morning she would face a consequence. For her it is not being able to watch tv or have milk at breakfast. That was her currency.

Anyway the bit similar is that I'd put her into bed, ask "what's the rule?" And she'd say "stay in bed and stay quiet" and I'd say "yep I'll come back and check on you in one minute. See if you can stay in bed and quiet til then!" And I'd walk to the door and turn around and say "well done, you stayed in bed and quiet, excellent! I love it when you listen to mummy" or similar effusive praise.

Then I'd say "I'll come back and check in you in another minute" then I'd close the door or step around the corner out of sight and then reappear straight away, hopefully to say "well done etc" again.

Then you repeat with longer intervals, two minutes, five minute etc. I didn't time it exactly, just stayed away a bit longer each time.

If she got out of bed, I'd go put her back in and start all over again - twice. On the third time, I'd say "Last chance DD. if you get out of bed again, no milk and TV in the morning. Last chance." And if she did, then it's the consequence in the morning.

It took her about a week. The first few days were terrible - we did this for day sleep and night time and when I was putting her down for her nap, it was another chance for her to have milk and tv in the afternoon. But for the first few days she went without, which was awful, until she got the hang of it.

The good thing now is like the others say, she can self settle really quickly and easily, here and other places. I rarely have to enforce the consequence any more - can't remember when I last did - and she goes to sleep easily and happily. Sometimes I still have to remind her if she's a bit excitable at bed time "what's the rule?" And she says "stay bed stay quiet!" And that settles her down.

Just another thing you could try. We started with DD when she was about 18mths and I had DS who was 2mths. We'd had enough of the sleep fights.

Good luck :hug:

DD1 was a shocking sleeper during the day and a terrible settler at night when DD2 came along and for the first couple of weeks it was ok while DD2 was still in that lovely sleepy stage. Then it was hell trying to settle two bad sleepers. So after weeks or a couple of months (not sure now, a distant memory I'm trying my best to block out!!) I just gave up. DD1 had never been more than a cat napper anyway, as much as she needed more, so we just did quiet time. DD2 lived on me anyway for the first 18 months so she would get snippets of sleep on my shoulder, and DD1 slept maybe half the time. I also did a LOT of driving and a fair bit of pram pushing because it was the only way I could be guaranteed of getting both monsters, er girls, asleep.

Try not to stress too much. The close age gap does make it much harder in the earlier days (I can say this from experience now that I'm dealing with a bigger age gap this time around) but throwing out any idea of schedules or routines for the first few months will make it far less stressful for you. And hey, you never know but you could get a perfect sleepy baby this time around who is a breeze to settle, so then you're just dealing with DD1.

Have you thought about getting rid of her dummy? I found with ds1 that he would wake up constantly looking for his dummy. When we got rid of it he seemed to sleep better.

The thing with a bigger bed is that you can also make it a more peaceful thing cause you can pop into bed with her, read a book (or 3), cuddle while she has a bottle and hopefully help her create a more positive association with bed.

I hope that something works for you and soon. I wish there was more I could say. Big :hug:

No real advice, just what worked for us at various stages. We cut out salicytes for a few weeks in the middle of all this, but didn't notice any difference.

When DS was taking at least 1 1/2 hours to fall asleep (obviously tired, falling asleep for a few seconds then waking himself up by shaking his head) we'd try and break the cycle by taking him outside, he'd check things out quietly for a while then we'd go back to rocking/bfeeding to sleep in his room.

If he was completely overtired and hyper and just rolling around in my arms or trying to climb off me, I'd take him to another room and we'd have a chat about how tired Mama was, and how he was much happier when he'd had a sleep and how in a few hours we'd all be cuddled in bed together anyway (we'd co-sleep from first wake up) and we'd talk about his feelings, and then take him to the living room so he could romp for a little while then try sleeping again.

If we really really really couldn't face 2 hours of putting him to sleep, we'd put a mattress in the living room and then chuck on a movie/episodes that we didn't mind if he vaguely watched (either something for kids, or usually grand designs) and eat popcorn until he collapsed. Then all sleep in the living room.

We also went back to full time bed sharing (plus we were moving and we sold his cot, lol) and he fell asleep a lot quicker when he was consistently in our bed. Got to the point where he'd pointedly roll away from me and fall asleep on the other side of the bed. I also made a big point of making sure he ran around outside a lot, inside activity didn't seem to make a difference to his sleep (if he spent the day running up and down the hallway or reading books) but outside made a HUGE difference. And we always gave him yoghurt after dinner and that seemed to help too.

We're at the stage now where he is in his own bed in his own room, and I lie next to him until he's sleepy (10-15min) then we say goodnight and he's happy for me to leave. Again, sometimes he pointedly rolls away from me, lol. He usually sleep 10 hours a night, if he wakes up, we co-sleep.

Hope this helps!

When I am out, dd will fall asleep during the day. If we are at home or the boys are with us she doesn't want to sleep in the day time.
I have given up trying to make her go to sleep in the day. I spent the last few weeks with her taking upto 90mins to get to sleep.
We would go into the bedroom, play alittle, read 2 books, have a feed when I would say sleepy time. But often she would get up and try play around. So every few mins I would lie her down and say sleepy time. After ages of this she would go to sleep randomly.
I got very sick of it and found I resented "sleepy time" as I needed to be doing things.

I know your preggy and probably wanting a day sleep too. Hope you can sort something that works for you.

I would suggest starting to get her to sleep in 1 place before baby comes. The more settled her routine the more secure she will feel.