What size area needed for vege garden? As long as a piece of string?

For a family of six (namely mine), is there some sort of guide as to the size of yard I would need to prepare (including fence off from the rest of the yard) to grow a vegetable garden in?

I'm sorry if it is a dumb question. :redface: I'm just doing some planning at this stage, it's not going to be done here (rental), and it is one of my priorities for when we get our own place. So I want to be able to know what i need when we go out looking at properties. The kids want chooks too, so as a side question can their yard be the vegetable garden? I'm guessing they will eat the caterpillars and the like, but hoping notthe growing produce?

I am sorry, it just seems like such a daft question. Depending on if it all will grow in this climate, I am thinking vegeatbles such as; potatoes, pumpkin, onion, garlic, herbs, carrots, zucchini, cucumber, lettuce, tomato, spinach, capsicum, chilli, peas, etc.... so, a variety, and enough to not have to buy any vegetables.

Many thanks for helping a black thumb... :redface:

People do amazing things with vertical vege gardens - you can grow a lot of food in just a little space using hanging bags etc.

Chooks - they can be part of a permaculture garden. Use a chook tractor to scratch up a bad prior to digging it and then rotate it over unused/spelled beds to scratch up the last crop.

Spuds will ruin your soils for other veggies for several years if you want to grow them, you are best to grow upwards (stacking old tires etc. it usually doesn't work out to be viable to grow spuds at home as you have to so a significant amount of "work" to rehabilitate the soil.

As you mentioned, it really can be up to you how big you go. Chooks will eat your veggies, so you don't want them in your active garden but they are awesome for feeding scraps and digging over gardens when you are done with them. I have seen situations where chooks are in a movable pen that is put over sections of the garden that is not being used in a cyclic rotation. The rest of the time they are free ranges outside a fenced off veggie patch

Replying from phone so will come back later to reply more.

Pumpkin can and will grow anywhere. Depending on variety, it can take over your yard as it is a sprawling vine sort of plant. We are experimenting with growing pumpkin upwards this year. Not much progress yet as we only planted a fortnight ago. In the past we've just let it take over but smaller yard and kidlet using it means we have to be more practical...

ok am at laptop now so i can make some suggestions - have a look at some permaculture type blogs - they will explain cyclic planting. there are certain plant families that shouldn't be planted in the same place twice in a row, so if you can get an idea on what plants clump together (like cabbage/cauli/broc), it will help you plan your garden. it's always a good idea to have "blocks" of vegies, and what you plant in one block one year, you plant somewhere else next time.

work out how much you want to get from each veggie - what works for me won't work for you. for us, because we go through at least three or four capsicums a week, dedicating a big section of the garden to capsicum plants isn't a drama - but if you don't use capsicum, it would seem wasteful. we have something like 40 lettuces in, all at different stages of development, as we go through a couple a week (and have staggered planting so they mature at different times) - again, it works for us, but wouldn't for someone else...

definitely do some investigation. look at what will genuinely be viable in savings (spuds and onions rarely are when you take into account the rehab of the soil, carrots can be a it hit and miss too - but so yum fresh from the ground!). we currently have almost 30 square metres of vegie patch on the go. it's all planted out except for about 2sq meters. we have sort of planted in staggered waves so that things mature at different times. we also have strawberries and herbs elsewhere, and the pumpkin and more tomatoes in pots around the place. none of it will go to waste - we feed the three of us, plus we have people over for dinner at least once a week, mum puts in some money to the seedlings so she takes some of the food, and we share with a couple of friends that help us out in other ways. it is perfect. for US.

i guess the thing with vegie patches is that you can make them fit in around everything else. we have ours curling around the corners of our yard, so even though it's very large, it doesn't seem that much seeing it is in a couple of spots, and hugging the fenceline so it's not taking a big chunk of the yard away kwim?

Thank you Onyx and BG, most appreciated. :)

Onyx; I didn't realise vertical gardens could be so productive. It will be good to keep in mind. I would , if possible, have to make sure the walls are facing a certain direction. Like North, so the plants get the sun they need? A property I am keen to know more about would have more than enough space for a 'traditional flat garden'. :)

BG; From your replies, I may give the old spuds a miss. Again, I had no idea about what growing potatoes does to soil. At least I got the chook-thing right, lol. I think I might come up with a chook yard once we have a place. I will look at some permaculture blogs, thank you for directing me that way. Again, wouldn't have known where to start looking. I will also try to note down, I guess, how much of what vegetables we go through. I totally understand what you mean about what suits your family won't suit mine. I forgot what else I was going to say, but thank you very much for taking the time to write such detailed (and numerous!) replies. I really appreciate it. :)

You need to rotate most things around to reduce the risk of plant and soil diseases. Have a search for vegetable crop rotations to get some ideas. Plants like broad beans and other legumes are fantastic plants for putting nitrogen back into the soil - on their roots they develop nodules which look like little lumps along all the roots and if you can get this to happen, then you're doing it right and they will put essential nitrogen back into the ground without you having to add it yourself artificially.

Most of all you really need to have a think about what types of vegies your family eats - not much point in growing something that you wont eat. Plus you may get a bumper crop of something (Like we did with our broad beans and peas this year - I didn't buy peas for nearly 2 months and I still have several kilo's of broad beans) and you may need to look into preserving it so 1 it doesn't get wasted and 2 so you can eat it out of season. Some of those things are really hard to grow well - like carrots and garlic. Garlic takes a long time to mature so it's not something you're going to get a reward off straight away. And carrots are just soooo hard. We try them every year and we have problems with them every time, from either being eaten by bugs or them just not growing big enough etc. We only have a small vege patch set up atm, it's probably only 6-8mts sq, but it's more of a hobby for DS than anything else. But we have plans to set up a much larger one when we have the funds to extend the watering system

Thank you Trillian. I will be sure to plant some broad beans or similar for the potassium returned to the soil. However, I think I could be the only person who eats broad beans. I used to eat them as a kid. And gosh, I remember peeling them too, Mum used to grow them. Maybe peeled and with butter the family might eat them. If not, I'll find something to do with them. Aside from those, I'm not planning on planting foods we are not going to eat or make use of. I am anticipating having to do preserving, would love to be able to enjoy our own produce out of season, where possible.

I also didn't know carrots were difficult to grow. I remember growing those when I was little, in a little patch just for carrots, and I am sure they grew well. :)

my next door neighbour grows his between his fruit trees. but he has no chickens to munch on his efforts.
Chooks can dig stuff up or eat seedlings (mine did :doh: ) but how ever big you want. it depends too on if you do that co-planting thing and what your family eat too. i know very soon we'll be extending ours so we can grow more, but im not very Planned" in mine i go "yep that can go there, cus it spreads that can go there becuase its climbs that can go there because...well i think i can step over it" hopefully next year i'll grow pumkins and zukini in the chook run its self and maybe cucumbers as well (all runners and the chooks can peck between the vines)

I have a book some here 1squer meater or something and explains how much you can grow in that space and crop rotation ect.

Garlic definitely takes ages. About 10 months from planting to maturity from memory. We plant it for the double benefit (we plant under roses and fruit trees to keep aphids at bay). We had some old knuckles of garlic from when we bought some at market. The guy said if it started to sprout to chuck it in the garden. So we have. I haven't seen aphids in the yard in forever. And we have fresh garlic over winter from the previous springs plantings.

We compaion plant where we can (things like marigolds near the tomatoes) and avoid any chemicals to keep bugs etc at bay. But we have a snail problem so we do use snail bait around the outside of the garden. And we fertilise with chook poo and Charlie carp. Haven't been able to afford the set up for a worm farm yet. When we can do that we should be able to eliminate the Charlie carp. Chooks are a no go here though. Would love to be able to get them picking through the garden as it is dug up! Save a lot of work prepping soil lol

Netix, DH bought a black plastic soakwell from Bunnings. We use it for our spuds. Put in a layer of dirt to cover them, when they sprout, put in more, they sprout, we put in more dirt...etc., until they reach the top, flower and die off. Then we knock the soakwell over and harvest our potatoes. The good thing is that we can put it anywhere in the yard and doesn't look quite as daggy as a stack of tyres. I usually have it hidden.

With regards to "how many" of each plant. We had a seed fundraiser at childcare and the backs of the packets of each that I bought (except for the herbs) would give an idea of how many you should plant, for example, the capsicum said 1-2 plants would yield enough for an average family of four. Cucumbers was the same. Cant remember the others but the packets give you a guide.

Netix, it doesn't have to be broad beans - any type of legume plant will do the same thing and it's only of benefit if your soil is deficient in nitrogen anyway. It would probably be a good idea to buy yourself a little soil PH test kit before you start planting anything so you know what acidity your soil it and you know what to plant that will suit it or what you need to do to fix it because some will prefer acid soil, some alkaline and others neutral.

there are a few "green" crops you can plant in the off season (winter ish) that help to rebalance your soil - can't for the life of me remember what they are now though. DH had his cancer treatment over this winter, so we let the garden do it's own thing and we're now fighting a battle with weeds sigh. definitely options for ways to rehabilitate with edible things though

BG do you have saw dust at all? that'll keep the snails away...

nope - tried that, and it doesn't work as well as it is made out to do! we have literally plague proportions here (walking from the door to the car in the morning means standing on at least 30-40 snails - and they're just the ones that haven't made it back to their hidey holes before we come out! we have tried all the natural options, but have had to resort to the bait or lose all our vegies. we combine the natural options in there as well though to minimise the use of the bait

We've grown pumpkin, herbs, onions, carrots, lettuce, tomatoes, spinach, runner beans, radishes and strawberries before. ATM, as it's a new house and I wanted to see the planting year as to what's already in (very little, it turns out), but have planted strawberries to see us through last summer: Liebling would have been very cross without his strawberries! I also had some tubs and baskets of herbs. I've previously done this in a 6' by 6' raised area, that more than fed three of us with a range of food.

I'll be planting some onions around the roses. I'd like to try asparagus near the tomatoes with a bit of basil and some spinach and some petunias. I'm going to put in marigolds and geraniums, as they are great for just about any fruit/veg. I'll start with the beans the year after this. I'll also put in a pumpkin or two, some carrots, parsley. I'll be doing all of this in the existing flower beds, maybe taking out a shrub near the shed and putting in a small bed next to the shed too. And look at putting in a fruit tree of some description. And finally getting a composter!

I do still buy veggies though: I'm not such a gardener that I can take up so much time looking after my garden, even when it does feed me.

Best natural snail control I've known is bantams. Unlike full sized hens they can't do much damage to a flourishing vege garden but they love to eat snails. You need to keep them away from your seedlings but once things are established bantams won't usually kill them.

We are totally pet free here. They relented on the rabbit cos she is caged. The snails are both front and back yard. Not sure anyone would like us having bantams out front all the time lol

Darn. I had a reply typed out before and lost it. Don't you just hate it when that happens? Let's try again....

Dansta; I'm anticipating doing co planting. It just seems so logical to do that. And I would definitely have to plan what would go where, right down to having a drawn plan of rotations :redface: . I will look for that book you have mentioned.

I would really like to be able to grow garlic. I have only found imported garlic in the shops, and it s**** me to tears tha tyou can't buy Australian garlic. I mean, wtf? Sidetracked.... Be happy if I have to wait. Hopefully I won't have to try and grow it from seed!

As for snails, a couple would be okay, as its all our lizard eats. Fussy bugger, considering there aren't many snails around here, and I feel a bit awkward asking "dear neighbour, pardon me, but do you have any garden snails that I could possibly trouble you for? Many thanks" lol.

Cass; that is a help if there are quantities on seed packets.

Oh yeah. That's what I was going to say. Nitrogen. Not potassium. What planet was I on? Sheesh! :doh:

I'm making another post so that I don't lose it all again.

BG; I have so much reading to do to learn what crops I should plant for recovery, etc, and just the whole roatation thing. Not to mention when to plant. Omg. Hope your DH is going good.

TFB; Your garden efforts sound great! Mmm, strawberries... Must try to plant thoae too! Store boufht strawberries have got nothing on home grown!

Netix, you can buy Australian garlic, but it only has a small season and the Australian market for fresh garlic is still pretty small and a lot of it actually ends up as minced garlic etc. I refuse to buy fresh garlic for that reason and only buy it when it's Australian grown so we don't have it very often. My FIL has been very successful with growing it though in the past so we would get it from him when he had it.

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Netix, you can buy Australian garlic, but it only has a small season and the Australian market for fresh garlic is still pretty small and a lot of it actually ends up as minced garlic etc. I refuse to buy fresh garlic for that reason and only buy it when it's Australian grown so we don't have it very often. My FIL has been very successful with growing it though in the past so we would get it from him when he had it.

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we were lucky to be at farmers markets with another BB'er when we found locally grown Australian garlic - we bought a kilo (as you do!) - the type that is weaved together to hang up. we were told it would last months (which it did!) and "when it starts to sprout, put it in the garden, you'll get your own growing" - which is exactly what we've done. So our garlic is all Australian. we have about 60 in at the moment - under fruit trees, under roses, scattered in the vegie patches. i like that it keeps aphids at bay (haven't seen any in a loooong time), and it's always there for us to eat fresh if we need it. a friend was saying about bad aphids at his place a couple of weeks ago, so we ripped some out of our garden for his, and he is seeing an improvement already. he eats heaps of garlic and had never through to grow it himself, so hopefully it will help.

if you see Aussie garlic, grab some, even just a single knuckle, and let it shoot (may take a couple of months) - you can grow from that.

Trillian; I haven't seen Australian garlic for sale in shops for about two or three years! And I do look for it.

BG; I will keep an eye out at the local markets here. Hopefully living in "the food bowl" you would think there is some ussie garlic about!

On a side note, how do you know when it is ready to pick? Thanks.

we just dig around it a bit when it starts to die off, check the size of the garlic, pull it out, check it out, replant it lol - there is supposedly a science (it should be planted for exactly this long) but pfffffffffffft we go by gut!

yeah, when we grew it, the growing guide said to wait for the plant to flower and then die off, but it still wasn't right after doing that.

BG, I'm going to have to go to a farmers market, but they have them on so rarely around here so it's hard. But when I see aussie garlic i do buy up big LOL

We have farmers market here once a month. Would be awesome if it fortnightly. There is no one that sells garlic at ours though. Cheap spuds though. I don't even mind seconds when they are fresh and cheap! We are lucky in that we are close enough to goo spud growing country that they being the spuds and onions to the market and sell cheap. Not sure if they'd still be cheaper at other markets. The garlic was an impulse buy but was worth it I think :)