Childcare questions

So this is probably a pretty daft thread, but I literally have no idea about how childcare works. I've been thinking about studying from home part-time, or maybe even on-campus mid this year (still working out what the deal will be for DD2 in terms of childcare (on campus) and BF etc), so getting DD1 into some form of child care 2 days a week. So, what's the deal? I'd assume there would be waiting lists everywhere and that priority would go to working then studying parents before SAHM's thinking about study lol. Is it as simple as just calling places and asking if DD1 can be placed on waiting lists? What's the difference between privately run places and council run places? What's the go with childcare rebate and benefit? Sorry if these are all really commonsensical questions :lol:

ETA oh and FDC, what's the deal there?

I think waiting lists depend on the ratio of child care centres to breeders in your area. I never had a problem getting my boys into the childcare centre of my choice. I think that only wanting 2 days and being flexible about what days helped because there were quite a few parents using our centre who only used it a couple of days a week.
I never understood the rebates etc. I just filled out my forms and gave them money when they told me to lol.

We chose a private place because we liked the owner and it was montessori influenced but not so montesorri that they expected me to rearrange our shelves at home or come in for x hours a week.

I was on a waiting list for a year at the place I wanted burner another centre offered me a place at two weeks notice so I guess it just depends on the popularity of the place. I think bg can explain rebates better than me so I won't attempt that.

Call and enquire about wait lists and ask to have name put down on weigh list. Also go and have a look at centres as they vary a lot!!

Council vs private just depends what you can get where I am council lists have a 2 year wait!!! Looking at this time of year you may find it hard as they all have a high chance of being full as just start of year.

Also depends what days you need and how many you need which off course would be dependant on what you were studying and when classes were which off course you wont know yet.

Childcare rebate you get 50% back up to a certain amount of hours or $ in a year.

I will let BG answer these things!

BTW if you want to study.... uni CC centres are often over subscribed so get on the waiting list ASAP. You can always get off it if you change your mind.

'Breeders' lmao :rofl:

Okay, so so I've got the options of FDC, council centre, 'normal' private centre or some variation 'stream' centre? I guess Google will be my friend in finding the ones in my area, huh? I'll check out C/L website while I'm at it too, although I find the info a little confusing.

I don't really mind what days, I'd prefer them not to be in a row but it's obviously flexible for me, it's not like I'm locked into anything at this stage

Thanks guys. Seems like the key is to just get on lists and see how you go, and take names off later if need be.

Yep just get on the list and say no later!!!

I put boys names down on 2 lists in sept for the following year! Got accepted to both but looked at both and 1 did not feel right at all and kids clung to me other was bright colourful helpful nice and kids ran off and joined in!

Good luck

I never had a problem getting a spot immediately (no waiting) either in Melbourne or here in Woodend. Council-run ones are not-for-profit and they tend to have a better reputation but also waiting lists. That's a massive generalisation though.

In terms of rebates, best to go to a Centrelink estimator. You'll definitely get 50% off in terms of childcare rebate (in theory, I think it's income-tested but you'll get it if your/DH's salary is below $150K per year). The childcare benefit also applies and will reduce your fees, that's kind of on a sliding scale according to income.

Fees can be tricky to work out though because at our childcare centre, you pay in advance. I've never really got my head around it TBH.

There is what is called 'priority of access' which if you google that with childcare you should find the info, as you say working parents get priority over others, etc, etc.

Something worth considering is JET allowance. As I understand it your hubby is studying also? If so you may qualify for this which greatly reduces CC costs - as in a few dollars a day - I had one parent who was paying about $6/week for 3 full time children!!

Also check out my child . gov (excellent for centre info) the childcare access hotline (google for info), care for kids . com . au for listings of centres and fees, etc in your area.

The rebate is only if both parents are working, though, no?
Maybe ask around for recommendations from people you know and then call around and see if any have spots. Some areas seem to be very hard to find spots in

Awesome, thanks guys. Income is easily under $150k lol, heck it's under $50k lmao.

I'm not sure about JET...DH has needed to drop down to part-time so doesn't receive anything for studying anymore, and if I study this year it'll be part time too. Something to look into JIC though.

oh no, you can get it if you're studying too. I thought it was a 'tax' rebate? oh well, that's good then

The rebate is is both parents are working or studying over 15 hours a week I think

Sit down with B and make a list of what is non-negotiable, what is important, and what you'd like, and make a chart (just handwritten on a bit of A4 paper) with columns for those things, plus a spot for you to write in the cost, and inclusions/exclusions.

Then call all the ones you're considering up, and tell them what dad you're going to come have a look.

Then check them all out on the same day, and then give yourself a week to decide.


Non-neg for us included:-
* kids got outside play everyday (barring wet weather)
* carers appeared to *like* kids (some places, they did not seem to ... seriously)
* lots of natural light (two places were kept reasonably dark, which I have since been told is an attempt to manage melatonin and serotonin levels to help keep kids more placid :( ... awful ...)
* food is cooked and served fresh and on site, and not too much rubbish (eg: is it going to bother you if the kids get chocolate crackles for afternoon tea, and an icy pole if it's hot? Do you want to know that lunch is on a 20 day rotating calendar, and they get meat every day? Do you want organic? Is toast ok for brekky?)
* carers-to-kids is in line with current regulations
* variety of activities (independent play, collaborative play, art, music, etc)

Important included:-
* not too many toys - so imaginative play and running around playing with the other kids is encouraged.
* lots of outdoor equipment options because DS1 loves it (sandpit, slide, minicars/bikes, balls)
* parents able to (within reason) come for a check up whenever
* regular reporting to parents
* what the rules were about kids going to day care when teething / temperature / colds / etc (these differ HEAPS so be sure you know what you're signing up for ... some places if you've got a temp that isn't brought down by panadol and stays down, you must be picked up immediately and can't come back for 24 hours, some places you can be temping and snotty and on anti-bs and still go ... know what you're happy to have DD exposed to, and what is manageable for you if you have to pick her up and/or lose your other day)
* what the rules were about swapping days (eg: some places you can only swap within that calendar week - so if you're Th & Fri and you find out on Wednesday you need to swap, you can't. And you still have to pay.
* what hours they're open, and when they close over holiday seasons
* hygeine standards - is everything disinfected, or do they let them get a little bit mucky-pup-ish? We don't mind a bit of dirt, a bit of mud, a bit of sand in the shoes and hair and ears - we want our kids to be kids ... equally, we want to see people washing their hands after changing nappies and before handing out food, etc ...

Would be nice included:-
* animals (some have chickens and rabbits and fish etc)
* other activities (dancing, cooking, pre-science stuff, activities out, etc)
* no compulsory other things (eg: some places get Hay-dee ho or photos or whatever, and some BB'ers have said that their place has no apparent opt-out so they get slammed with fees for things they don't want)
* nappies being included in the cost, or being able to use cloth nappies there (though if you don't have a car, this might not be appealing ... mmmmm, tram with a dirty bucket of nappies ... in summer ... score)
* systems in place to give consistency with toilet training, etc.
* the day care having 3yo and 4yo kinder on site, so DS could (if still in care) stay on with established relationships to kinder and then primary school.

Doing it as a chart makes it much easier for you and B to actually compare.

And actually going to the places and meeting the carers makes it easy too.

Two places I crossed straight off my list, because there was no natural light, the rooms were dim and dingy (and it wasn't nap time) or the kids (and I'm talking 6 weeks - 2yos) were parked in front of the telly during play time, and the outside areas weren't maintained ... One place I crossed straight off because the Director and two of the four carers just didn't seem to like kids, from the way they were behaving ... I know that anyone can have a bad day, but if this was the way they were interacting with someone who they expected to be forking out $450 per week plus nappies and snacks, then it just was not the place for my DS.

The other 8 places came down to those other things. The carers in general ... the activities ...

We actually ended up not being persuaded by the price - though there was a big difference (I think the high watermark was $92 a day and the low watermark was $63 a day) because by the time the two rebates kicked in, the cost difference (when taking into account where we did and didn't have to bring nappies) wasn't too bad.

Because we were going full time, there were not going to be any waiting lists anywhere - they would fit us in.



HTH.

PN, sooooo helpful!! Thank you!

You're welcome ;)

Hey PZ I was just looking up some info for myself and thought you might like to know - the CCR is NOT income tested. It is capped at $7500/ year / child (2012/2013 rates). If you get CCB that comes out of the $7500 first though, ITMS. So you can't get say $3000 in CCB plus $7500 in CCR, you would get up to $4500 in CCR.

Good news for me as I'm looking at having two in daycare, three days a week, and CCR will still cover the full 50% of that. Of course this wont be til 2014 so hopefully the govt doesn't make any stupid changes before then!

PN has give some awesome advice :clap: A lot of what she has said is what I considered when finding a day care and pre school for DD1 recently.

I visited 5 centres, the first being highly recommended by a best friend - her 3 yr old DS goes once a week. We were offered a position based on an inspection and I was thrilled as its a difficult centre to get into. We visited the group DD would have been in and I just felt awful about it! The grounds are massive, there are 9 childcare 'rooms' for memory but that's where they spent most of their time - in their rooms. With 20-30 other kids. The windows were high up so although light, the kids couldn't see out, the toy room was small and chaotic. I wanted DD to go somewhere more like home and that centre felt far from it!! The kids were taken outside twice a day for a decent play (weather permitting) but I wanted DD to have more freedom to go outside and the pokey room just did my head in. So I started looking at other centres, all based on recommendations.

We went on the wait list at 4 centres. I wanted one day a week and was happy with Mon, Tues or Fri so being flexible helped. Two of the centres are extremely difficult to get into so I called them a few times after submitting my application to reiterate my interest and it paid off. I got offered a position at one of them the day before their open day for new families - someone had pulled out last minute and as I'd called again just the day before, my name was fresh in their mind. We took the position based on the inspection on the Open Day and I signed up then. They are Reggio Emilia based and OMG, so adorable. Exactly what I was looking for. The centre is for 2-5 year olds only too (so very much tailored for DD's needs and interests) and a bit like family day care. Amazing, I'm thrilled.

I was happy with just one day but then randomly we got offered a position at one of the other centres we'd wait listed for and it happened to be the sister centre to our other one PLUS it was preschool so 3-4 year olds only. It's like 3 year old kindy but operates on day care/school hours (open 8-4) instead of 2.5hrs twice a week. We inspected and signed up with that centre too. It's incredible!

The other two centres we saw were great too (one of them also offered us a position just before Xmas and I declined) but I couldn't have asked for any better than what we got, they really are amazing and will help prep DD for school. That was very important for me. The staff are very attentive, the centres are bright and clean and the activities and toys are fantastic. DD1 is a very bright (and spirited!) little girl so going to a Reggio centre is a huge bonus too.

Good luck with the search. See as many centres as you can as they do vary a lot (I was amazed!). Ask lots of questions and trust your instincts. Being flexible with your preferred days helps a lot too. We've got Monday and Friday so yes, we will cop the public holidays but you can apply for makeup days at both our centres so that's yet another bonus.

FYI - I have a friend who lives in your suburb. It took 18 months to get a place for her son. I think she ended up getting a place in Black Rock. So get on waiting lists now.

Hmmm, this thread is interesting as I will be needing childcare at the end of the year. And I have no bloody clue either! :lol: Unfortunately I will only be able to have 6 months off before going back to work, probably part time first. So it will have to be between childcare and mum I guess.

So I should probably go on a waiting list then hey?

Definitely get on the wait lists. All 5 we liked had wait lists and the two we got into are full for the following year by Xmas. I was talking to another mum at the open night at one of ours and she'd been on the wait list for a year :o I'd certainly fluked it by getting the position the day before. But once again, being flexible and reiterating my interest (by phoning them) certainly helped.

Thanks guys. I called a centre earlier to come in and have a look, the director wasn't in so I was told to call on Monday, but the lady I spoke to said that I shouldn't have trouble getting a place :dunno: Definitely will be going in with a bunch of questions and trusting how I feel about it.

It may be different in WA but I'd almost be a bit suspicious of a centre that doesn't have a wait list. The good ones are hard to get into here and as there isn't much info online about WA centres, I used friends recommendations and wait lists as my guide.

wait lists aren't really an issue in my area because there's so many centres available. We literally went to about 12 places, and we didn't drive more than 10 minutes to get to any of them, and none of them said we'd need to wait (although 3 or 4 of them noted they'd shuffle things around so we could get full time) ... there's just heaps of DCC (and schools) where I live :)

At this time of year it can be easier to get in with people moving, going to kinders etc especially part time rather than full time. Good luck PZ just trust your instinct.

Some great advice already given - I would suspect your area may well have wait times.

Personally I would not worry if a center did not have a wait list though - different parents look for different things so it depends on your definition of 'good'. I know my two go to not a particularly popular one but I love it (I think may be unpopular because of a lot of non-English staff (someone did say to me oh that is the Indian one isn't it?) - but everyone there loves the children and to me that was the main thing I wanted (might be different when you start looking for a 3 year old but for me for a 12 month old at the time affection was very important) - and as someone else said there are places where staff don't actually appear to like children let alone feel affectionate towards them. It has low core staff turnover, which I think is a good reflection of center also as if staff happy children happy etc (Staff who looked after DD in baby room are still there and now looking after DS)

Another key factor for me was ability for either DH or I to do pick and drop off - which means had to be easy to walk to from home and public transport. When I was working this was particularly important but also when I was home with DS was great that I didn't have to get out to do pick up at the end of the day too.

I also only looked at two - selected because I knew people who were happy with them - I would have been happy with either (the one I got I liked the amount of light better - and is open all year round apart from public holidays - the other was the council one which is cheapest and 300 metres away but very hard to get a place at and is shut in January for holidays and some other times - as we have no other family around for childcare going there would have forced us into holidays at set times). I figured at end of day they would go where I could get a place and I wasn't bothered enough to go on the waiting list and pay to be on list (sometimes you have to pay to be on list say $20) at 5 places when at end of day I wouldn't get a choice because places are few and far between.

I didn't ask a lot of questions, do research or spend any real time deliberating - just went on gut feel at look round and the fact that friends children were happy there. Apparently it follows The Reggio Emilia approach a fact I only became aware of recently - (after DD being at center 2 years!) - but I am quite a hands off parent when children are not with me and as long as the children looked happy I wasn't really fussed about anything else.

Once you are on wait lists is definitely worth keeping ringing up to check where you are etc, as they seem to operate by some sort of black magic with little logic behind allocation of places (probably because most people are on wait lists at 5 centers so keeping them current is a big job)

The info in this thread is great, thanks everyone :)

There are quite a few centres in this area and surrounding suburbs. I never knew! But I guess it's one of those things you don't notice until you need to :dunno:

If you do end up wait listed remember to call them, our centre requires you to call no less than once every 6 months to remain current, check their policy.

I am in a high demand area and what I found interesting was that there was a long wait at lots of centres - the ones everyone talks about all the time but at others it might not always be the case.

I put DD2s name down on the Council wait list (a centralised list) as well as the highly regarded privately run ones in my suburb all within walking distance. I had no luck with those and was warned that the wait is excruciatingly long despite my flexibility. I then found out about another privately run one in the next suburb that looked fantastic and ticked all my boxes. Turns out they didn't have a wait list and I was right in! Since then, I have heard from some mums that they are amazed I managed to get in as the wait list was incredibly long a few years ago, so it seems that things can change over time and a wait list is not always an indicator of quality (or not) but could be an indicator of popularity or the convenience of a centre. I guess the lesson is look around a lot, check things out for yourself and give all the centres a go not necessarily the ones that everyone talks about.

I have about 4 in my town I think. Two are in walking distance to my work :) That would be handy....lol

PZ,
Could you please empty out your inbox. I tried to PM you but your inbox is full.
Thanks :-)

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I think bg can explain rebates better than me so I won't attempt that.

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I will let BG answer these things!

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really? Moi?? but whyyyyyyyyyyyyy??

this thread might help

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The rebate is is both parents are working or studying over 15 hours a week I think

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not quite - the number of hours of ccb and ccr is determined by the number of hours you work/study etc. to qualify for ccr, you just have to be working or studying a couple of hours a week - this would qualify you for 24 hours of ccb/ccr - if you go over 15 hours for both parents, you'd qualify for 50hours per week

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Hey PZ I was just looking up some info for myself and thought you might like to know - the CCR is NOT income tested. It is capped at $7500/ year / child (2012/2013 rates). If you get CCB that comes out of the $7500 first though, ITMS. So you can't get say $3000 in CCB plus $7500 in CCR, you would get up to $4500 in CCR.

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the bolded bit is incorrect sorry hun - ccb and ccr are seperate payments. ccr is paid on top of ccb. so if you are entitled to 3000 annually for ccb, and you hit the maximum of ccr, you'd actually get 10500 in rebates...

Thanks for that BG - I must have read the website wrong!
As an aside BG, I am about to finish work (3 days/week) and start maternity leave for about 12 months. We currently get DDs two days of daycare covered by CCR (50%) - will I still get that covered during my mat leave (keeping DD in her two days after bub arrives)?

Yes, for the first twelve months of maternity leave you are assessed exactly the same as you would be if you were working

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It may be different in WA but I'd almost be a bit suspicious of a centre that doesn't have a wait list. The good ones are hard to get into here and as there isn't much info online about WA centres, I used friends recommendations and wait lists as my guide.

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We are the only centre in a rural town of about 2000 people with a high aged population, we don't have (and never have had) a waiting list in the 10 years of operation. There is a C&K here too and they have not ever either. We both are excellent centres, but in our township, we just don't have the numbers of families. So I wouldn't always take that as a reliable deciding factor.

Or just babywear both girls to work/class and if anyone asks you about them, you can say they are:-

1. your imaginary friends;
2. growths;
3. a figment of the other person's imagination;
4. your newfangled dictaphone;
5. the Doctor;
6. your contraceptive device;
7. spies;
8. a matter of national security;
9. your mastitis prevention strategy; and/or
10. your bad pick up line avoidance technique.

You could also say they are a parasite (according to House MD), lunch, abnormal growth (I wouldn't say cancer ... that's a bit harsh), your husband's sperm which stuck around, or a few other things, but the above are probably the more socially acceptable responses.

Go on.

I dare you.

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We are the only centre in a rural town of about 2000 people with a high aged population, we don't have (and never have had) a waiting list in the 10 years of operation. There is a C&K here too and they have not ever either. We both are excellent centres, but in our township, we just don't have the numbers of families. So I wouldn't always take that as a reliable deciding factor.

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That's why I think it's quite different in the cities. There are an awful lot of people and often not enough centres (or enough good ones). We have quite a lot in our area but several are not highly regarded. The ones that have a good rep that I know of (through my own experience and through my friends and family experiences) all have wait lists. But like I said, it may only be a Perth thing. Or maybe my friends and I are too particular with our choice of centres! Lol! I've got many friends in a decent sized town in central Vic and I don't think they had wait list issues.

Also check with the uni, some in Melbourne gave their own child care on site and offer discounts to students.

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Yes, for the first twelve months of maternity leave you are assessed exactly the same as you would be if you were working

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Thanks BG :)