Blatant refusal

This morning ds1 blatantly refused to go to school.
Every morning we have fights over what feels like nothing and often he is very close to being late for school.
This morning it was because his daddy woke him up- he wouldnt get dressed for 80 mins! then another 30
Mins refusal. We ended up just picking him up and driving to school and putting him in the class room.
Today he made his brother late for school and us late for important things.
Hubby was stubborn and son was stubborn and it was horrible.

Ideas and thoughts please

Was he refusing to GO to school? That's easily solved- physically pick him up and put in car. Or look at why- for example I didn't want to go to school for a few months in year 6 and I never told my mum it was because two older girls were picking on me.

Sounds like he's refusing to get himself ready! That ones easier.. Here's a few that friends do/I do, as food for thought.

One friends dresses her 4 boys in their school clothes/daycare clothes the night before, all he has to do in morning is roll out of bed (that one doesn't work for me as I let DD wear unmarked school dresses twice before washing so feels a bit eww)

Keep school shoes and hairbrush/hair ties on brush handle in car, make them remove shoes before they get out in afternoon, don't do the 'key dance' by the front door, hand them socks with their lunch boxes (we do this, finding matching socks and locating shoes is half the battle and she has FORGOTTEN to put shoes on 4 times in 2 years- she's realised AT school drop off point)

When I stress DD about her time management, she loses it and will just lock herself in her room or cry on the couch. She's only 7!! School mornings are a horrible childhood memory for me and when I realised I was doing to her what my (slightly insane) mother did to me, it changed everything! I realised.. how dare I think of my own child as lazy, even in the depths of my darkest morning moments! She proactively brought our dry washing off the line yesterday and put in laundry. how many 7yr olds do THAT to help mummy?
Our kids were born with parents doing everything for them.. Honestly, without us teaching them super easy ways to do it alone, giving them incentives, and helping if needed, why SHOULD that change? They don't have our perspective on the whole thing.

So halfway thru year 1 I changed our system. Her clothing system is basic- 5 drawers labelled undies, school, pants, etc. Nothing is folded as she chucks clothes in drawers herself- but she knows where it all is. Her weekly hanging rack has about ten outfits including school clothes that she can change into etc whenever she needs to- no cupboard clothes get touched except when I decide to dress her up- out of sight out of mind! Her room has been 100 times tidier (helps their morning state of mind from being overwhelmed), and I also implemented the rule that as soon as she is dressed and has breakfast in front of her, she can do whatever the hell she likes until I'm ready to leave, as long as she doesn't bring out toys or craft. Normally that is playing on ipod touch or watching ABC3. I rush past, throw her lunchbox and socks at her, she rolls her eyes, gets her school bag and follows me to the car. It's funny how I used to blame her but I now realise how often it's ME running late and wasting time. :D

Also I know your son getting overwhelmed or annoyed like mine does when we clash MAY not be the issue- but my point is, by dramatically changing the routine and keeping it calmer, it changed her whole mindset. I'm the only one that can head off morning conflict! Your household is in a cycle and changing that can sometimes make a world of difference, especially if you explain to them what you're trying to achieve and if they think it will help.

Oh and lastly I've found if she is in a tv/breakfast/couch/toilet daze and I need her to get moving, (yes, she zones out on toilet playing with the rolls and making mirror faces) I just threaten to run late to her next after school activity. Honestly, sometimes they just need a really happy upbeat-voiced loose threat along with a physical pat or touch on the back/arm/shoulder to crack them out of it! I stroke her cheek or hair which she hates, and she leaps up and runs off. I have a floaty day dreamer :(

Wow that was really long haha.. I'm in pre labour, I zoned out while writing it! Sorry for the essay!

That gave me a lot to think about thanks.

Hope your labour goes well.

I will post more when Im able :)

where are you to be back at school already?

Efjay, she's on the other side of the world ATM.

I totally agree with Katters.
When I am organised in the mornings they go a kazillion times smoother.
You guys have a lot going on atm, don't you. Kids pick up on that no matter how much we try to shield them.
Ask him how he'd like the morning to go?
Would an alarm clock be beneficial?
Would he be more co-operative if he's more in control of what happens? Discuss a plan at night time perhaps of what needs to happen. This works well for my two.

I dosed him with rescue remedy last night after a melt down in which got way outta hand.

I am org in the morning and our routine is very simple. I go in at 6.50, turn on his bedside light and wake him, tell him I'll be back in 10 to help him get dressed. (he doesnt wake up well). I go turn the heaters on warm his clothes, get myself dressed then go back. a snuggle and a little tickle is the best way to wake him up, then we put socks and pants on, the next bit is tricky and may be a BIG reason for melt downs, he requires 3 thick jumpers over his already thick velvet thermals- this is a struggle but there is NOTHING I can do about this, the school doesnt have heating unless its snowing. then he goes washes face and brushes his teeth. we'll have breakfast, put on shoes jacket and leave.

Melt downs happen at any point, sometimes for totally unrelated things that he has been thinking about.

He can do the routine, His brother and sister stay in bed atm so as to help have a smooth easy breakfast, but it cant always be that way.

I allow 40-45 mins before we need to go and dont get on his case unless we are really pushing time. It never helps and I certainly dont want to be nagging, there is enough of that done at other times :)

He is having a real hard time with his temper. Hes an awesome kid but always had SO much anger and emotions easily overwhelm him.

Butterfly Dawn

where do u live ?

overseas - Asia

ok
how old is your son that has the meltdowns?

6 yrs, 7 in march.

I know all the kids arre effected by the other things that have been happening etc. And he's never had it easy, none of them have and its not going to get easier any time soon, even when we get back to NZ in April, they will then have a big move to adjust to, new school and their daddy not being around.

Im really hoping to get a breakthrough with him before we come back. I guess I'm scared of him being out of control when I'm solo parenting

im like someone else who said .. pick him up and manhandle him into the car but im assuming it is summer weather (like here in Oz) ... does he feel to hot with all three jumpers on ?? and can you let him sleep in some clothes and you juss put the extra one on before you leave?? Can he eat a toastie sandwhich in the car to school for breakfast and a drinkbottle ..... and is there any bullies at school?

just throwing some food for thought at you thats all ....

Can i ask whats happening with you and your partner? U can pm me if you would like to chat further

Due to many things, my hubby and I will be living in different countries. will see each other probably twice a year.

Its winter here- hence the jumpers :lol:
He wont sleep in more clothes. The school is a 4 min walk and I dont drive here so throwing him the car isnt an option :(

on meltdown number 5 already and its only 3pm. his brother who is 4/5 is quickly learning the same behaviour.
My hubby is just gonna get all strict and yell. not helpful really.
:crying::crying::crying:

i have a 4 1/2 yr old who frequently has meltdowns as well... so i feel your pain:(

If you have to walk well i would just warn him 10 min before you go (with a jumper or 2 in one hand ready for him outside) and tell him if your not ready bad luck your going to school and thats it ... (so i reckon pant and shoes on first on wakening ) ...and at the exact moment be prepared for a 'controlled meltdown' and say right mr xxx we are off to school and we are going now shove him out with the other kids and lock the door and head to school. ( i did exactly this but i did have a car and ignored him which was very hard but he put his seatbelt on in record time when he new i wasnt and the engine was on) .

Just today i had a 20 meltdown thats shorter than normal over i dont know what so i do hear the pain and frustration :( hugs honey x

Im trying not to stress about tomorrow. But its been a daily drama for so long...

i have had 2 chronic school refuses here!! It is so hard and so emotional- both my twins are so it was double trouble ganging up on me!!
We are still late nearly everyday as they are both still so hard to get to school
What worked for me when they were your child'd age :
- Get the school on board- know what is going on- our principal was awesome and she would sometimes come out to the car and help me get them into school some days.
- I got my DD teacher to assign her a job that had to be done each day before school, so she had to get there before the bell to do that job so that got her there on time
- arrange a play date before school with some of the other kids mums so that they wanted to get there early to have a play
-bribery/rewards when they go so many mornings getting to school without fuss
-counselling to find out the real reason why they are school refusing- both my twins had different reasons- both were valid. It got so bad the reason that my DD was refusing to go to school, that we actually in the end swapped schools. She still even to this day gets some anxiety , but it is alot better and episodes are more in waves now rather than all the time
-step at a time. The main goal is to get to school but break it down into smaller goals. In other words "I'm not asking you to go to school, I am asking you to get dressed/eat breakfast/put your shoes on," etc . One baby step at a time. Something the whole routine is so overwhelming.
-a treat- and it doesnt have to be food- in their bag that they can look at or have when they get to school! Stickers or a new eraser/pencils worked well for us.
-lots of rescue remedy/crystals to hold/little toy/security object have been used for us

The main thing is not to do it alone- you cant- you need back up and have a plan to follow when they do refuse. Also take the emotion out of the whole situation. That way the emotional blackmail doesnt work. Also blaming someone else for the reason they have to go to school- ie authorities fault you have to lol .
Just try and keep one step ahead of their objections and have a plan if they try and deviate from it
HTH and good luck and hang in there !!!

Just a note re: pushing blame for kids having to go to school ie 'authorities make me send you'- however bad it gets, try not to go down this path. It's just not a nice ethic viewpoint and encourages all kinds of wrong messages. We send our children to school because that's how education happens in our society and without it they would have little to no prospects in their future.

katters - the original title of the thread was to ask for help dealing with a school refuser. I was only replying with what worked for me. By my children knowing that it is the law that they have to be educated until the age of 15, and that it is not me being a mean mum. Yes your statement about why we send our children to school is correct- but a 6 year old just thinks that its mums fault that they have to go to school, not that it is a rule of the society that we live in.

Thanks ladies.
On this weeks star chart we have put "daily routine" on. Had a talk with both boys about - things everybody in the whole world have to do. Ie get up, get dressed, go to school/ work, have a shower, go to sleep etc.
Hope it helps.

His schooling is really going downhill in general. As in apparently he's the worst in his class. He's not dumb just lazy and doesn't pay attention. -its not going to help anyway.

I had thought about getting tested for adhd as I have it. But he seemed to get better. But now he is worse again.
My hubby thinks Im clutching at straws.

Just pick him up, put him in the car (even in his pyjamas), take him to school and leave him. OK, if he's in his jamas then send his uniform in with him. No breakfast? Apple in his bag.

Do not blame authorities. He has the opportunity of an education, not an enforced prison sentence. It's attitudes like "tough, you have to, it's not my fault" rather than "school now makes your adult life better as you learn stuff" that make the teachers' lives VERY difficult. I teach children whose parents have that attitude and it really doesn't work for the child - it may get them to school, but it doesn't value learning so the children just play up all day.

Butterfly Dawn- your hubby thinks you're clutching at straws??? Trying to improve your entire family's home life? Going as far as gathering and implementing ideas from others under your own initiative?

I think you're doing an admirable job and clearly really care about your family and making things happier and better for everyone.

I think you sat down and spoke firmly to the wrong member of your household.

My hubby refused to deal with ds1 this morning.
Its 10.35 and he's still at home.
I can't pick him up and take him. We live on 4th floor, stair access. He weights about 25kg and is about 120- 130cm.
I have a 20mth old who I don't want to scare.

I don't know what to do.
He has exams next Monday and Tuesday so he really needs to go. And its ridiculous, school isn't negotiable

:

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My hubby refused to deal with ds1 this morning.
Its 10.35 and he's still at home.
I can't pick him up and take him. We live on 4th floor, stair access. He weights about 25kg and is about 120- 130cm.
I have a 20mth old who I don't want to scare.

I don't know what to do.
He has exams next Monday and Tuesday so he really needs to go. And its ridiculous, school isn't negotiable

---

Your husband just refused did he? ...to much in the too hard basket is it ? that makes me so mad for you .

and when you child 'gets his way' and stays home then what does he do? watch tv or mope around or annoy the bejesus out of you ?

(now i do understand the the fact you cant man handle him out side but your husband would be able to hey!)

So, he "won" and stayed home. He's been good but I had to go out do stuff. He tagged a long nicely. We have had a nice day. But hubby will not be happy tonight.

He did offer to come get ds1 but we were out and he wouldn't come to where we were or a half way drop off point to get him.

sigh. Im over it. I can see why he doesn't like his school. and he is jealous his brother gets to stay home sometimes. so good talks with him. Him talking me listening.

We'll see tomorrow what happens.

ok im going to put it out there is your son just being plain defiant ? in that case he needs to be told that school is another rule and everyone needs to go end of story !

He's been told that.
That life is going to school Monday- Friday. Kids go to school. Adults go to work.

Its all been explained. Gone over. I'm sure I talk these things in my sleep.

We have talked to both boys, kids job is to go to school, learn as much as they can. Learning is exciting etc etc

There isn't any real reason for him to not like school. He's not picked on. He has friends. He's only grade 1!

12 school days left til he has holidays for 3 weeks.

I actually am starting to think its just that he wants mummy to take him to school. And 4 days a week I can. Unless we have a bad night with somebody (like last night) and I wanted sleeeeep at 7am not a argumental 6year old :lol:

Do you think if the teacher sat down with him for a few minutes at the end of the day and they spoke about something exciting from that day and the exciting activity she/he has planned for tomorrow would that help.

Unfortunately its not like that at his school. PE is the best/ most fun class. I have asked hubby to get the teacher to give him a job to do every morning, he loves this kind of thing.
Not having language enough to talk to the teacher is a problem for me. But 11 days left til holidays and we move in April so hope things get better then :)

I would be inclined to back off and give him some time at home. I know it seems like giving in, but honestly how much is he going to learn while hating school so much. Is 12 days if schooling worth the emotional drama this is causing in your whole family. In my experience negativity breeds negativity. You need to break the cycle. I would try and get some work from the teachers to do at home and keep him home until after the holidays and try again after a break. Would the school accept this as an option do you think (not sure how many sick days etc are allowed).

Defiance is not necessarily bad behavior or naughtiness it can be a cry for help and attention. Only you know your child, but my motto is when they are having trouble (often seen through meltdowns) hold them closer, cancel the stress points and be more available. We are trying to create stable happy adults. Education is not effective on a stressed brain. Also your son is more likely to listen to you if you listen to him.

Good luck!

I can totally understand what ur saying. And I agree.
In April we are moving countries so it seems even more stupid to be having these fights.
Hubby is stubbornly digging his toes in. Child must go to school.

10 days left till holidays :)

Sorry, I have just skimmed the thread and may have missed the rationale.... but this is what I've gathered:

DH says child must go to school
DH says he will not participate in achieving this.
You can not physically make him go

... so what exactly does your DH expect you to do?


Another question... how's he going academically? Socially? Are there any signs at all that he has trouble focussing, hearing, understanding what's required of him, tolerating noise levels, joining in play - just to name a few of a million little things that could potentially undermine a child's confidence. Sometimes something as simple as needing glasses and therefore not being able to decipher what's written on the board can really make a child feel like they're not managing.

And... does he try and control anything else or is this behaviour specifically around attending school?

It must be incredibly difficult you not being able to communicate with his teachers especially as it sounds like you and your DH don't see eye to eye exactly about the issue. I suspect the school system will be very different where you are (China?) to where you are going (NZ) ? I think the most important thing given you are moving is not to traumatise your son about school full stop at the end of the day the most important thing is he settles into school in NZ right? Like previous poster I would just back off about school with your son, maybe he will be so bored at home and for holidays that after will want to go back?

Hi Butterfly, I too have a child who is more prone to meltdowns than most others, so I feel your pain. He is also quite strong for his age, so man-handling isn't always an option here either. It's incredibly frustrating when you don't see eye to eye with your partner on parenting issues that should be jointly handled - I really think getting you and DH on the same page should be a priority (easier said than done, I'm sure!).

Is there any particular reason your son does not want to go to school? Is it pure laziness or something else going on? Is there a language barrier at school for your son? Does he also find it hard to communicate with his teacher and peers? Is the work too hard/too easy for him?? Does he have friends at school? Are you able to socialise with any of his friends outside of school to help build their relationship, thus giving him a reason to want to go to school? Is home schooling an option??

Do you think these issues will continue when you are in New Zealand? If so, I think you should continue to try addressing them now. If you think the move will solve it all then I would tend to go with whatever works to get you through the next few months. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. Good luck x

Thanks for all the input. A lot to think over :)

Language isn't a problem for ds1 he's been in the school system for 4 years. Monday- Friday and sometimes extra classes on Saturdays.
(Im wondering if that is partly the issue but its not for the majority of kids)
The work is hard- hubby has spent hours every night helping ds with learning to read and write, 1st pinyin and now characters. It seems ds has trouble remembering things and has trouble concentrating , he's high energy and doesn't enjoy sitting still for long periods of boringness :lol:
I had suspected him bordering adhd but I'll wait till he's in the need school system and settled before re-questioning.
I'm really hoping the life style change will make a big difference.
We live in an apartment on 4th floor so outside time is limited and there isn't anywhere nice to play in our compound. Living in a house with a backyard should make a huge difference for all 3 kids :)
School will be more "fun" and interesting.
Ds has felt out of place here for awhile, begging to move away often :(

Tomorrow Im expecting trouble, I was asked to do a fun class but Im sick and probably won't do it. Ds is upset already about this. And I certainly won't be taking him to school. so it will be interesting to see what happens. I'm nervous too, I don't see it being pleasant if ds puts up a lot of fuss. Here's hoping for the best :)

So, hubby got them both to school. :cheer: heard a little fuss but doesn't matter.
I'm thinking both is better then 1 at a time. Kinda keep each other going.
Not sure why it doesn't happen this way. I just started getting up early to get ds1 to school on time. Hubby could drive him, as its on the way to kindy and work. But he likes to sleep in.

Just another angle - if he's jealous that his sibling(s) stay home, maybe start doing some special one-on-one activities with him.

I do "special movie nights" or "special days" with DD1 without DD2. Special movie nights can be problematic as DD2 often isn't asleep till 9pm which is a bit late to be starting a movie with a 5-year-old but she loves them so much and I find she's much calmer afterwards.

She gets jealous that DD2 wakes up during the night and comes to sleep in my bed so on special movie nights we watch a movie and she sleeps in my bed.

I wonder if something like that could help if the school refusal is a bit of separation anxiety.

If you're moving country soon, I too would be tempted to leave this one until you've moved.

I'm thinking its a mix of a lot of things that have been bought up. Its defiantly complicated. Jealousy, shyness, defiance, separation anxiety (that's always been huge for him) to name a few in his emotional mix.

Think I will review a lot of stuff and start to work out a parenting plan for when we have settled into our new place. I'm bound to be feeling overwhelmed then myself and forget it all if nothing has been outlined.
- time to start my own special parenting book.

Thank you all so much for your input :)