What do I do now??

So, some of you might remember some time ago (Jun-Dec 2011) I had rather a difficult time with a nanny I'd hired. See here for the back story, if you really want to know.

To summarize, she wasn't great. As a nanny. Didn't really nanny my children, she basically kept them fed, changed nappies and "supervised" but that's it. She also did some silly things like using my home phone to make personal calls during the time she was supposed to be looking after my kids, left my DD (2.5 at the time) unsupervised long enough to fill the sink and flood the bathroom and then used one of DD's dresses to clean it up, without telling me... She was young, inexperienced and I think over her head. We parted amicably enough but I did tell her that her services were no longer required.

Fast forward to now...

On Friday afternoon I missed a call from a mobile number I didn't know. Checked the voicemail, it's a reference check, for said nanny. I put it out of my mind as I was at a conference for the weekend. But she's just called again. I screened it as I was supervising painting and didn't want to deal with the phone as well. She's left another voicemail.

I have no idea what to say. She is a nice enough girl and we would still use her for babysitting, of the type turn up, make sure the kids are asleep and sit and watch TV. But how do I give a reference without saying how disappointed I was with her as a nanny, and downright angry at some of the things she did?

To be honest, I'd probably just confirm that yes she did work for me and the length of time that she was there without going into a lot more details. If asked the circumstances of her departure be honest that you let her go but leave it as "it just wasn't working out for us" or something?

Keep it straightforward and simple I guess.

I would be honest. If you're not at ease with having her look after your children, shouldn't the person requiring a reference be aware of the way she conducts herself with regard to her work?

You need to be careful when providing a reference for someone. I dont think that you are able to outright say anything negative about someone - but having said that I could be very wrong.

Maybe someone on HR could pop in and help you out :)

I think be nice, but be honest. She doesn't sound particularly competent and it wouldn't be fair (or safe) to give another mother the impression that she is better than she is. You don't sound like the type of person that would run her into the ground and so I would just be clear and fair about the skills you think she is lacking, and why you think you would hire her as a babysitter but not a nanny. Good luck!

You do need to be honest, and of course you would. You can say you feel uncormfortable answering some of the questions. You could say that you felt that inexperience was a problem - she may have matured and learned a lot in the time since.
Don't say you were angry at some of the things she did. Some of the things she did showed you that she was unable to cope with two under 3 - and made decisions that were unacceptable to you.

She may only be looking for baby sitting work.

Good luck. You're not on trial here! Just relax and imagine you are talking to her grandma - you would want to be kind, but be truthful.

What are the repercussions if you do give her a negative reference? Still in your circle of friends or church? I'd take that into consideration prior to what type of reference I give.

I've heard that you can't give negative references either. I'd maybe mention that her strengths were keeping them fed and supervising their own independent play. If the person asks specific questions you need to answer honestly but that way you're not going straight in with the negatives. Either that or you could mention the things you think could be improved (and let's face it, that's not necessarily saying it as a negative - everyone has things they could do better...)

I agree with Jaycee. References are there for a reason.
Something along the lines of "I did have to let her go. Our expectations of her duties appeared to differ and I wasn't happy"

I actually think it is fairer to say straight out to the girl that you don't feel comfortable giving a reference rather than her continuing to give your name out on the assumption that you'll give her a good one.

Otherwise if she keeps using you as a reference and you are honest every time she may never get a job. Instead of giving the feedback to every potential employer you could give it to her to help her going forward.

Horrible position to be in though. I've had this happen to me and even worse I knew the person who was doing the hiring as well and I didn't want them hiring a lemon!

I think the whole situation raises a few curly questions - like why on earth is she using you for a reference, when you effectively sacked her? Does she not realise she did a crummy job? Does she think that you don't know she did a crummy job? And who uses someone (particularly someone who sacked them) as a reference without even checking first??

A bit concerning, frankly. It really doesn't strike me that she has matured or wisened up much, TBH.

I would be honest, and courteous balancing the different issues at play.

If you wanted to be delicate, you could say something right at the start like, "I'm rather surprised Betty is using me as a reference." That way you're making a pretty obvious point without actually slamming her.

For the meat, you could be clear without being too negative by saying something like, "it didn't work out and I had to let her go, because at the end of the day my kids needed more supervision than Betty could give."

If they want more details, you could just say something like, "sorry I can't be more help, but I'm not comfortable going into more details. I have tried hard to leave things on good terms, as Betty is a family friend and a nice girl." or whatever.

I think that gives enough of a picture without being negative, and without getting into any details.

IMHO references need to be frank and honest (and probably confidential) because anything else isn't fair to the potential employee or to the employer. But maybe Nai or someone can give some clarity as to whether you can't say anything negative ... I've certainly never heard that.

But when one particular person asked if I would be their character reference, I told them outright not to ask me, as they wouldn't like what I had to say. My stance in life is that I won't lie to you and I won't lie for you ... and I appreciate the same in return.

I think in the case of whether you can give negative references, it strays into the area of defamation law.

Ah. So the theory is that you don't say anything negative, because you avoid a bun fight over whether it's true? Interesting.

When I worked in hr and recruitment. If we had someone that was dismissed or wasn't up to the job we had to say 'the employee was let go and we would not re-employ them if we were given the oppuetunity'' from that they could generally understand the person was not suitable.

I would be honest, she looked after the childrens needs - kept them well fed, changed nappies etc but didn't engage them the way you expected. I know if I was hiring a nanny I would want honest feedback.

I would talk to her honestly and let her know that if asked questions you will answer truthfully, ie you weren't happy with so and so. And see if she is still happy to have you as a reference. At least she knows what she's in for.

I ended up missing out on a job because someone agreed to be a reference and then lied about me. I can tell you now that I didn't appreciate that. And wish that if she'd had an issue with me, she should have brought it up with me. Rather than stabbing me in the back. Very unprofessional.

I had not thought about the defamation aspect! Of course I don't want to lie - hence my query, how do I handle this? I like the idea that I wouldn't hire her again for the same position. That works.

And yes, I was very surprised to be called without being worded up first - I think that is very poor form on her part and intend to let her know that.

FabFi, she has moved to a different church now, so I only see her infrequently.

OP - don't overlook the fact that you open yourself up to adverse issues with the new employer if you give a good reference when its not warranted too. TBH this whole protect your butt philosophy drives me insane. Such a ridiculous politically correct, litigious world we live in.

I would be honest (but then I frequently am too honest for my own good). You would use her as a babysitter, but you weren't happy with her experience level to care for your kids on a daily basis. That's not nasty, its not dishonest and its leaving the door open for the potential new employer to look at whatever has happened between you and now and think but hey, that problem is solved now with more experience gained doing X or Y.

Huge can of worms. You risk defaming her but you risk being held responsible if something goes wrong in the next job. All I can say if it were me is that I would contact the babysitter and tell her you are uncomfortable being her referee and that she should tell the person who called you that you're unavailable.

If you are even remotely honest she won't get this job.

If they call again you can say that you're not prepared to offer a reference. Refusing to be a referee says volumes without saying a thing.

My Dad rang someone for a reference once and he said 'I tried him. Now you can'. Lol. We didn't try him.

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You need to be careful when providing a reference for someone. I dont think that you are able to outright say anything negative about someone - but having said that I could be very wrong.

Maybe someone on HR could pop in and help you out :)

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What is the point of being asked for a reference then? I am always honest if I am contacted about a former staff member. If they were always late and lazy, I am not going to say they were early and great at their job iykwim.

Definition of defamation in Australia:

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You can defame someone if you say something false about them which spoils their good reputation, which makes people want to avoid them or which hurts them in their work or their profession.

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I think as long as you're not saying anything false, then you aren't defaming anyone.

Where did I say that you shouldn't be honest. I just said to choose your words carefully.

I also said that I could be wrong and deferred to someone in HR!

I'd be blunt and say I didn't feel comfortable - no need to go into detail. It's hard but it is your reputation too.

No dramas Frantelle! All good!

So I called her back. I kept in the back of my mind that I would still use her as a babysitter but she wasn't suited to the nannying gig.

First thing she said was "so how long did you work in the company with X for?" So I responded "I'm not really sure what she told you, I didn't even know she was using me as a reference, but she worked for me as a nanny, she looked after my kids for about six months." So that probably spoke volumes, that she hadn't told me.

She asked about her duties, so I said she looked after my kids from morning til night. She asked why she finished up and I was honest and explained that she was a bit over her head with my kids, that they needed more than she was able to give. She asked about her attendance, was she on time and didn't have too many sick days? Easy to answer - always on time, no sick days. Strengths? Easy. Weaknesses? Referred again to being a bit over her head. Don't really know if that was a weakness... But anyway. Asked if I'd employ her again and I said as a nanny no, but that I'd use her as a babysitter.

Then I texted her and said that it is a good idea to ask a referee before using them and to let them know when you apply for a job so they can expect a call. She wrote back and apologized - apparently she'd asked someone else but they were on leave when the woman rang them so she had to give her another name and thought of me. She still could have had told me!

Anyway, I feel ok with that. I think I handled it ok.

You did good OP. Definitely said the right things. Would have been interesting to hear what she applied for.

Nice job :hug:

Well done OP.

Sounds perfect :)

Yep, well said.