Why is it "brave" to plan for a completely natural birth?

I read an article defending Kate Middleton's desire to use hypnobirthing and water to aid her in a natural birth from those (usually other women) who mock her as being naive and noticed similarities to a lot of the comments I and other women receive when we've talked about similar birth plans.

When I told people we were planning a homebirth for DD2 I got so many comments about being "brave" and "what if something goes wrong?" Lots of questions about why, what about pain relief, and so on. This time, nothing. If anything, people avoid asking me my birth plans at all. And I know it's deliberately done. As in, I'll hear discussion in great detail with another pg mum right beside me who their ob is, which hospital, last labour details, etc, etc. This is mostly at groups I regularly participate in with DD2. Maybe I'm jumping to conclusions and they all just assume I'll definitely be having a homebirth since they remember how well it went last time. ;)

Why do women generally want to share horror stories, or warn pg mums about everything that can go wrong and generate so much fear around labour and birth? It'd be like telling someone planning their wedding that it'll probably rain, it'll feel awful and uncomfortable standing there in front of all those people, but at least it's only a day and you'll eventually get over it!

I always try to build pg women up, especially first time mums. And I'm equally interested in their plans, whatever they are.

Why the negative comments out there?

Just jumping in here and I did birth at hospital and I did have pain relief however... Every person who spoke to me before I birthed my DD wanted to share horror stories, they talked about how out of control they were, how "bad" it all was.
After DD arrived they were all swarming around to hear the gory birth details. I actually loved my labour, yes it hurt, no it wasn't as natural as I had planned but it was awesome in my eyes.
So when I say this people look disappointed! No one wants to know about it if it wasn't 'horrible or tramatic'!!
I had only 1 person in real life tell me a super positive birth story!!

I don't think all people tell others of the pain or feeling of loss of control as a way of being a 'horror story', sometimes it is to give information, to help prepare their friend, or to let them know it can be really painful or an extraordinary experience but you can get through it.

Some people do like drama and oversharing, and birth is just one of the ways in which they express these. And some people have alot of fear around birth, it is part of the industry of birth, fear is propogated so people keep buying up the merchandise.

Because we've become so conditioned to view birth as this Terribly Dangerous Thing that can Kill You and Your Baby in an instant if it's not done in a hospital under the care of a surgeon (ob) and anyone who births outside of that highly medicalised paradigm is Reckless, Dangerous, Selfish etc etc. Those messages are constantly reinforced every single time natural birth is mentioned in the media (thanks Mamma Mia!) so it's no wonder that as soon as anyone mentions publicly that they want as natural a birth as possible they start the tsk-tsking and head shaking.

I think this situation is made 10 times worse due to the fact that this baby is the future King or Queen of England and no one wants to think that something could Go Wrong. I wish she hadn't of said anything publicly about her true desires for the birth just so she didn't have that pressure on her.

I've heard soooo many times that I'm so "brave" for going for a homebirth this time. Before that it was because I was going for a VBA2C.

I'm not brave - I'm just awesome!!!!

PMSL (so totally kidding there, don't worry, no huge ego here....)

I get the comment sometimes because I often have people tell me that as soon as they hit the hospital, they're going to ask for the epidural. When I explain that it's not always the case and sometimes it's either too late or it doesn't work, it leads to my births and I get the whole "I couldn't do that" and brave comments.

It bugs me sometimes simply because I did what I had to do. My choice was either have these babies with no real pain relief, or get knocked out and have a c/s and the alternative of not being awake to see my babies enter the world was just a horrifying thought. Getting the comments telling me that I'm brave or superwoman or whatever just feel silly. If they were in the same boat, they would have the same birth story.

Nobody told me prior to the birth of DD1 that I wouldn't be able to have an epidural or that other pain relief wouldn't really help. It's information that would have been a huge help because I could have researched different ways to help me manage instead of being so naive and believing that I could simply have the epi.

With any luck, Kate's labour and birth (if details are shared) will have women looking at different alternatives if plan a doesn't turn out.

I think part of the reason people think it's brave to plan for a natural birth is because there's a point when almost everyone would take pain relief if it was offered. And maybe those who have given birth at hospital and did accept pain meds feel like they really, truly could not have done without them. Or maybe they feel a small twinge of guilt or inadequacy for "needing" them, when others have gone without. I know that with many of my deliveries (four of which have been med-free) there was a point (usually at transition) where I'm not sure if I can handle any more, and if someone would offer drugs, I'd probably take them.
I have to say that in my first delivery, I definitely felt like I needed pain relief. I was overwhelmed, panicking, and not coping well. It was a fast and intense labour. So when I hear a first time mum say that she wants an all-natural delivery, one half of me is thrilled for her and knows she's making a good choice, and the other (silent!) half of me is thinking "oh honey, I hope you've got some support to help you though this, 'cause it really is hard!"
I think a lot of first time mums dream that they'll sail through labor strong and silent and stoic, and aren't really prepared for the challenge that labour presents. Then, as they struggle to cope when labour becomes challenging (and it IS challenging!), they feel like an epidural is their only hope. If they knew what they were up against - realistically, without horror stories, or glossing over of the real challenge of labour - they could prepare better with alternative coping options and the support of a doula.

I think it is a reflection on a birth environment where women are not truly supported and cared for in their labours and birth.

So people that call someone naive or brave or something along those lines they are merely commenting on an environment that is the normal situation: it is really really hard and lonely to have an empowered positive natural birth without love and support of high quality (and I mean, people that know and understand and support normal birth) and knowledgeable birth support surrounding you.

I guess for many, the idea of achieving a true hypno-waterbirth is unimaginable if their only exposure to birth is ala: OBEM, where you have midwives and OBs pressuring for a medicalised approach and reliance on machines to monitor birth rather than their own set of birth skills and innate understanding and respect of a physiological birth.

In respect to the upcoming new royal birth...I can only hope and assume that she has a wonderful birth support team that understands how important birth experience is and will help guide her to have her and baby's best birth possible, come what may. that is what we should all be striving for.

I think its a multitude of things:

* You're brave because we live a sedentary lifestyle and are not used to 'pushing' ourselves like we used to
* You're brave because you're likely birthing in a place (and time) where normal physiological birth is not embraced, commonplace or celebrated
* You're brave because you're birthing in an environment that is not mother/baby friendly and you're going to have to try and cope with that without relief or confidence
* You're brave because there is not enough (appropriate) physical support and care for women in labour - hospitals seem to have lost the way with what women really need giving birth hence the rise of the doula
* You're brave because at your most vulnerable, weakest moments, many (especially in private hospitals) carers are not going to support you to keep going, just, 'why suffer?' Pain = pain relief mentality
* You're brave because you are up against so many emotional, physical and un-birth-friendly hurdles that it takes you a will of steel and carefully thought out plans to have the best chance of it working beautifully - or you could rely on luck.
* You're brave because in quite a few hospital based birth classes, you will be left unprepared to birth naturally. As one midwife in a Melbourne private hospital told me, 'We just teach them about epidurals because thats all they want to know about." A client of mine: "They showed us a video where the woman was saying she wanted to shoot herself. I'm reconsidering my ability to do this without pain relief."
* You're brave because you hear the horror stories of those gone before you in the same system with the same care, with all of the above unfriendly issues.

I think it's a combination of a couple of things:

1) People are generally ignorant about birth, apart from what they see on TV. It's not like we live in communities where we see/hear a woman labouring regularly, so our information comes from "entertainment" sources. Mostly American rubbish too.

2) People love drama and seeing others suffer. Just look at the casting for reality TV shows - they combine people who will generally be nasty to each other and provide entertainment to the viewers, who can then feel smug and superior for an hour or so. So if we expect people to suffer, we generally feel ripped off if they don't. That probably doubles for those who have suffered through birth - they dont want to hear about an alternative. It threatens them.

From what I can see, the whole birth and parenting industry is generally geared to make women compete and put each other down. Anything that rocks that status quo is a threat that must be squished into the ground before civilisation collapses.

Stop being so bloody radical, lie back, take the drugs and do what you're told! *sarcasm*

LOL L&B!!! Sad, but true.

I have wondered this too.

I had an ob and birthed in a hospital for dd and I plan the same system this time, but I had a fantastic birth.
I felt in control, empowered and so proud of the birth.

I went in saying I didn't want an epi. I wanted to be active and move. Everyone said to me "you don't have to be a hero, you'll see what it's like when you're in labour!"

Thing is after when I told them it was great I would get the line "oh but that's just you".

I really do not understand this need to play the martyr. Like I had to worst birthing experience, I thought I was going to die, I won't be able to do it, just knock me out...etc etc. I fully accept that some women have traumatic horrible births and my heart goes out to them. But when they are held up as the standard of birth, how can anyone look forward to birthing?

It's like in Australia in particular we have this soft spot for "battlers" and so society feels the need to glorify extremely bad births. Instead of people focusing on bad birth treatments and healthcare, "childbirth" is the issue.


Drives me nuts.

I seem to have had a different experience to what some of you are describing as the norm in a hospital, particularly private hospital.
When I arrived, they asked me if I was interested in any pain relief. I said 'I'd rather not, lets see how we go'. Meds were never mentioned again, there was no pressure about my decision and there was no big deal made about being brave, that it would be hard etc. I was encouraged the whole way through.

I thought it was interesting when watching One Born Every Minute USA, women are offered an epi as soon as they feel any discomfort. They said that less than 5% of women in their hospital attempt a natural birth. When 1 lady came in saying she'd like to try naturally, the midwife was very surprised and told her how brave she is and that she could change her mind at any time. The midwives then sat around outside discussing that she was going to try to give birth naturally, like it was unheard of.

I was talking to 2 women the other day who are not TTC just yet, because they are scared of what pregnancy will do to their bodies and the pain of labour.
1 said - I just think births with an epi seem calmer and nicer. I'd prefer to have a baby in a nice environment like that.
The other said - I already know I can't do it without drugs (How??) and I don't want to breastfeed so I'm going to take a pill to stop my milk coming through
I don't understand how people can be willing to make such big decisions without any experience - maybe it's based on all the horror stories?

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It'd be like telling someone planning their wedding that it'll probably rain, it'll feel awful and uncomfortable standing there in front of all those people, but at least it's only a day and you'll eventually get over it!

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I like that analogy! I often think birth compares well to running a marathon. And when did you ever see people standing at the sidelines saying "Oh, you look like you're in a lot of pain... here take some painkillers". No, we stand at the sidelines and cheer louder! We rally and say "You can do it! You've come this far and we'll buoy you along till the end!".

I really don't understand the brave comments either. They kind of give me the ****s.

I think it is a really good question. There really does seem to be a subconscious 'thing' to tell horror stories about birth.
I agree with some of the things raised already, like glorifying the drama etc.

I do wonder if on some level it is a bit of women who have experienced birth and feel that they didn't handle it well (because let's be honest, transition by nature is you feeling like you can't do it and you aren't doing very well) and subconsciously going 'well if I couldn't do it there is no way she could do it' and kind of bolstering their own self esteem along the way. You know like 'If I couldn't handle it, it must have been HELL ONE EARTH, so I'm going to tell you just how hell it was, because it would have to have been REALLY extreme for me not to handle it'. I don't think it is an intentional thing, or vindictive or purposefully negative, more just a subtle self preservation mechanism.

But to talk about the fear of birth in general, I know some of the things that scared me before hand were not horror stories or drama etc. It was the reality! Things like tearing and walking around for days afterwards with ice down your daks to numb the pain, that wasn't made up or embellished! But the reality is that when you are walking around with ice on your nether regions it is just something that happens and you deal with it and in the whole picture of having a new baby and the rush of hormones and emotions etc it is not really a big deal. But given that small piece of information without the context of the whole picture it is pretty scary.
But I think that is the nature of birth and part of why it get such a bad rap. To look at the theory of what happens and how it is pretty bloody staggering and seemingly impossible! So without the context of how the female body works and how it has ways of dealing with that pain and has ways of making the seemingly impossible possible and making it amazing and awesome, the facts are scary. I think we need to have more conversations about these bodies of ours and how then are designed to deal with labour and actually deal with it really well.

I also wonder if on some level (yes another level, my post has many!) if it is caused be the fact that birth is 'women's business' so the male dominated narrative on birth is intrinsically scared of all that mysterious not-understood not-valued scary women's stuff.

Lots of great and thought-provoking responses.

I think it's a great pity that our first knowledge of birth is through both media portrayal ("entertainment" haha), like L&B said and also usually the stories of our own births, which unfortunately in my case involved drama and horror from my mother. It's only now I have been able to explore her stories as an adult and unpick the poor medical management from what her body was truly able to do unhindered in subsequent births. It was only before she attended DD2's birth that she told me she'd been with a friend who gave birth (quickly) when they were teenagers. I was slightly annoyed at the beat-up of my long and difficult birth when the other three stories she had to share were much more positive!

It's a shame our first time at a birth is usually when we're giving birth ourselves. I love that DD1 was there for DD2's birth (and will be for this one). No one can scare her with worst case scenario stories. She saw that it was a lot of hard work and Mummy was tired afterwards. She saw that I couldn't move very fast for a few days and that the midwives checked I was okay. But it was all totally PG-rated! I'm having my sister along this time, partly because I hope she gets something out of the experience of being at a natural birth.

Ina May Gaskin talks about the way the midwives attended Amish births and their involvement of community and family. Like others have said, support of a mother (before, during and after birth) is crucial. I think we could learn a lot from these communities.

I think its generations before us that plant the fear seed.
When i was preg. with DJ i had my mother and other women her age telling me i'd have to be induced, get the epi and have a medical delivery. when i said i was aiming to labour at home for as long as possable i got laughed at (i was 19) when i went 11 days over with Dj i had more stories about failed inductions, prolonged labours c-cections and Drs knowing what was "best"
After having DJ, a long drawn out labour. people asked when i had the epi, when did the Dr help. when i said "i didnt and they didnt" they couldnt understand why i didn't want "help" or to "escape the pain" I had one women i know tell me had she laboured more then 12hrs her DH would have demanded a c-sect on her behalf (which shocked me)

I think women fail to educate them selfs on their own body and its capeabilitys they dont see that some sections are really needed their body needs more time. and they need to learn to trust it. from the moment you get a BFP you are treated as if you are sick, pregnacy is often seen as an "issues that needs to be delt with" as apposed to a chapter that needs to be written that will always be remembered and will shape all involved for the rest of their life.

Then when i had Vic people assumed i had "help" (due to his size) but didnt want to hear when i said dispite the shock it was also enjoyable birth... I'm with L&B on this one.

Some great points! It reminds me of when I was 13 and my mum had a homebirth with my younger sister. I came home from school one day during my mum's pregnancy and the midwife was there and she told me my mum had just walked up to the shop and was having contractions 3 minutes apart. I had instant movie images of a woman flat on her back on a hospital trolley being wheeled under bright lights through slamming doors and people panicking over her saying "contractions are 3 minutes apart!!". I was concerned my mum should be at home shouldn't she?! The midwife chatted with me and explained how birth really progresses and that was such a definitive moment for me. Watching my sister be born at home and enjoying the normalness of it all really cemented my faith in birth. I really believe that sharing positive birth stories and experiences with your children is one of the greatest gifts you can give.

My experience with number one was not too bad I had people tell me their births and some were really traumatic but I never got the vibe I couldn't handle it it was more just a retelling of what happened I accepted there were risks and researched accordingly so it was helpful (but i already had the view birth was a normal experience that a women's body was designed for thanks to bb so maybe had i not been as educated i would take all my experience from Tv and be fearful) I ended up giving birth in a private hosp both times and it was awesome after birthing my first baby in 5 hrs and my second in 1hr I get eye rolling like oh no don't tell anyone it can be quick and easy or I'm bragging
I have found the system is weighted against those who labour longer though I'm lucky I go fast and didn't have to get put on a timer

It's hilarious what people think of as brave.

Although my first labour was wonderful and easy and relatively painless for my second I was induced. DH was deploying a week later and I wanted him there.

I was advised by my OB and the midwives to have an epi. I refused. Not because I was brave but rather because the whole needle in the back thing scared the living crap out of me! Nothing brave about my short intensive (read painful yet exhilarating) labour.

Also, I gave DH strict instructions that if a cs was deemed necessary they had better knock me out - the whole being awake while they did that......nah, not for me.

So, no I don't think you have to be "brave" to have a natural birth but more so brave to put your complete trust in a doctor, midwife etc..

PS: if we have another, I am NOT going to be induced. Ouch! DH can just work around me.

I got those comments too after DDs 2 and 3 - both spontaneous, drug free births. The "you're amazing/brave/strong/incredible/crazy" comments. All my kids have been hospital births under an OB's care, and so I think there is what seems to be a normal reaction of surprise that if I'm having an OB and at a private hospital I must be having "the works". I left hospital with DD2 only a few hours after she was born and the amount of comments of "You're crazy", "you're amazing" and everything in between were incredible. Likewise, nobody seems to believe me when I say that when I eventually asked for an epidural when in labour with DD3 it was my OB who said "no, you really don't want one. You know you can do this without one and the only reason you want one is you're so close now. Give it another few minutes and see if you change your mind". And he was right.

I don't think I'm brave, strong, amazing or anything else. I just think I'm me and I made the choices I wanted to make for myself and my bubbas. I agree that tv/the media etc puts an enormous amount of pressure on what is the "right" thing to do, depending on how the wind is blowing that week. I think some may make comments along those lines perhaps to mask their own disappointment or self-judgment of the way their own births went, or maybe because they do genuinely think I'm an idiot for not wanting pain relief. I also think people generally, women specifically, like to tell you the absolute worst and for many it seems to be a competition, with the "winner" being the one who went through the most pain, had the most stitches, the longest labour, the most drugs. Its just another thing to compete on like the breast/formula, cloth/disposable, CIO/comforted etc. Such a shame we can't just say hey, I'm sure you'll do great however you choose to go about it and leave the competitive stuff out of it.

I always hate the "brave" comments and I've had them too. I think it's because most of society thinks that birth is so super duper horrible. I mean almost every birth on TV/movies shows a woman screaming and everything is so chaotic.