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I have had an emotional day and need a break. Bub has fed every 2 hours today and is very unsettled. DH has her now and he wants to give he a bottle so I can just get some rest.
Question: I have 50ml of EBM can I top her up with formula? Say around 30ml?
Yes, you can. But if she's already unsettled, formula might unsettle her even more. Are you able to feed lying down, just relax in bed with maybe a book or a movie?
ETA I remember how draining those first few weeks are. Remember that Marley is feeding often to build up your supply to her demands, so it's a good thing really :) Both of my girls have never gone more than 2 hours without a feed until DD1 was 10 months+.
If it were me and I needed a break I'd just feed the EBM and leave it at that. Hopefully that'd keep her happy for at least an hour and then you can BF again....
Yeah, even EBM she downs in 2 minutes and then just vomits half of it up :(
You can, but if it were me I wouldn't. She is feeding frequently to build up your supply to what she needs. They also often cluster feed in the evening to prepare for longer sleeping at night, so it's a good thing really. If you want to breastfeed then the best thing to do is just keep feeding, formula can interfere with that and might just unsettle her more anyway as it is much harder on her little tummy to digest.
I would avoid formula if you can, use what you have and have your dh cuddle her and keep her upright for a bit to see if it helps keep it down while you rest.
Can you lie down and feed? Maybe go to bed and lie down with her and let her feed as much as she wants and you can rest.
Are you able to feed lying down?
How are her nappies? Is she alert and clearly drinking (suck-swallow, suck-swallow pattern rather than suck-suck-suck)
If you are confident she is getting enough milk I would start block feeding her and offer one breast in a two-three hour period and then swap. You want to minimize the foremilk and get her to start taking more hind milk which will help with settling.
I have block fed both mine and it really helped the windy, unsettled periods.
Some babies are more sucky than others itms?
Maybe she's got upset tummy, you can try alcohol free gripe water, or lying her on her tummy on a pillow on your lap.
Your DD is less than two weeks right? So she may not even get through 20ml of formula top up, but if hunger is the issue it will help.
Is she burping ok?
The lying down feeding does help, even if DD will use you as a comfort and ask your DH to just keep checking on you so that if either of you fall asleep he can move your DD in her sleep place
Drinking amounts out of a bottle is no indicator of how hungry babies are as some just drink it just because, hence the vomiting it up as they are overfull. Also you'd be surprised that even though the vomit does look like so much they do keep some down. My two were really spewy bubs and if I'd used that as a gauge I would have led me down the wrong path.:
Bub is still so little so stick with the feeding she is just doing what is normal to increase supply like others have mentioned, I know it's tough I've been there but it does get easier!
Firstly Tasha, you are doing a wonderful job hun :hug: a really great job, don't you forget that. And please never be sorry for asking questions, especially if it means that you find some comfort on this tough journey. I know just how you are feeling not that that helps atm but my DS feeds every 2 hours too and it is hard work and he spews just like your little one! :wall: It is also very hard, stressful and painful when it is your first BFing experience/ journey, but I promise you, it DOES get easier and she will stretch the feeds out and be more settled.
Is your let down fast?
I reckon you can do this BFing thing though ;) deep breath, positive thoughts and go kick this BFing every 2 hours butt :hug:
Do you have a slow feed teat on the bottle? She might be getting too much at once?
Also infants friend is good for windy bubs.
I second what others say about the vomitting when overful. Dd use to always spill when she gorged herself.
I second block feeding.
I just wanted to give you some :hug::hug: and tell you how great I think you're doing. BFing is demanding and HARD at first and you're doing pretty darn well if you ask me! I've been reading your posts but didn't have anything extra to contribute - I think you're getting great advice. I remember the early days with DS were so overwhelming. So much new information to process, so little sleep, so many new experiences to try and savour and so much discomfort!!! The sleep deprivation really messes with your brain and I personally found it completely drowned out the 'unbridled love and joy' I was supposed to be feeling. I felt like an unappreciated house cow, lol! But it did get better.
I'd advise that DH (and anyone else) can help by doing ALL the housework so you don't have to lift a finger outside of feeding. He can take over nappies, bathing, cuddles (awesome bonding time) etc so that anytime you're not feeding (yep, lying down is great), you can doze/rest/do whatever you want. He can be your personal valet and make sure you always have food and drink, comfy pillows, the TV remote and anything else you so desire! That way, getting your supply sorted and keeping yourself at least a tiny bit rested can be your priorities.
Look after yourself.
I also wanted to give you some hugs - exhausting isn't it?
My DD was a very robust breastfeeder, in her first 3 months of life I felt like I was constantly breastfeeding her, especially around 4-8pm when I was usually quite exhausted myself.
I just wanted to add that when babies throw up or 'spill' milk, it often looks like its much more than it actually is. DD was a big spewer until about 6m, constantly had a spew after every feed and I seriously wondered how much she was keeping down, but in reality a spew is normally no more than a teaspoon or so, it just runs everywhere so feels like its half the feed hehehehehe
I also found laying down feeding in bed a way to balance a constantly breastfeeding baby while still getting some decent rest/sleep myself. Took me a while to get the hang of it though as was most comfortable feeding sitting up with my breastfeeding pillow arranged in a particular position etc (Creature of habit much?).
Hope you get some rest, its amazing how different and refreshed you do feel when you are able to fill the sleep tank.
PS. We took DD to a chiro from 2 weeks old as she was such a spewer - made a significant difference. Just a thought :)
I SO agree with this!:
Tasha, I read your other post and absolutely feel for you, I also want to say like everyone else that you are doing an amazing thing. I have had 3 children and never successfully breastfed any of them. It is something I really struggle with and wish I could do better so the fact that you are getting all this advice and still trying your hardest to make it work is an amazing thing. Keep going and you should be so proud of yourself.
Hey Tasha,
My DD was the same, in the early weeks, feeding 2 hourly to get my supply up. Overnight was so difficult that we ended up cosleeping on the sofa bed. She would feed as she liked whilst I rested/slept/dozed. We did this on and off for the first 4 weeks then it settled down and she she fed more efficiently and had longer periods between feeds and slept longer.
I knows the bottle seems like a good idea but from my first bf experience and seeing my sister with her newborn son, introducing a bottle of ebm or formula top ups can make things more difficult in the long run. I know it might seem blunt but if you want to stick with bf then I'd just pop on your baby as much as they seem to want it, which will seem like all the time at the moment. I promise you, it will get easier.
Have you read timeline of a breastfed baby and also the wonder weeks? These were both my godsend in the early days whist trying to get bf established. It really made sense not just from a feeding POV but also from a general baby POV. They really just want to be with you all the time, so even if you aren't feeding them, sometimes they just want cuddles which can be mentally and physically exhausting when all you've done is feed, feed all day long. I also found just going for a short walk with bubs in the pram helpful in that i didn't feel stuck at home all day.
Don't apologize! Keep asking, keep connecting. Motherhood is hard, those first few weeks are so intense it feels like even when you are sitting doing nothing at all you can't breathe because of the overwhelming weight of it all, you're always thinking about the next step - next feed, next settle, next nappy. And it is always way too soon. It is full on, non-stop. It is tiring and confusing and all your different parts hurt and feel different and it feels like you're existing in sludge when you try to do anything it is all so resistant and unclear. Please know, everyone finds it hard, an adjustment and it isn't just you. You're not weak or wrong or failing or bad or anything. You're doing great! You really, really are even if it doesn't feel like it. Try not to look at the big picture too much because it is big and you don't need that clouding everything. Focus on each moment, just one feed at a time, one step at a time, one foot in front of the other. You'll get there, no matter what happens, you'll get there. You are doing it right now after all!
Babies feed a lot. Formula or breast, they are hungry often because their tummies are small and they are busy doing a lot even when it doesn't look like it. They are constantly growing, think of all the things they need to learn about each day right from the start. It is hard work for them too and they are working up a huge appetite. So formula might not really solve anything but if you do need your partner to take a feed just so you can breathe, that is okay too. Only you know where your limit is. I just want you to know it is really normal, all of this and that doesn't mean it should be easy or any reflection about you if you aren't coping with normal because normal doesn't mean easy, expected doesn't mean you have to simply comply without fuss. Feel what you feel. Cry when you need to release some of the building pressure. And come here with every question, big or small. Let the community embrace you, build your confidence and satiate your fears - we had them too, we've been there. And it sucks and hindsight makes it easy to say you'll get through this from here but it is true :hug:
One feed at a time. Each extra feed is another battle won. You don't have to think to 2yrs or 12mo or 6mo or 3mo or 3w, just one more feed. And then one more feed more. Small goals, small destinations, small expectations on yourself. And if you formula feed once or twice or however many times, don't worry about it setting you back, just look forward right onto the next 'one more feed', focus on your wins! Two steps forward, one step back, whatever; you're getting there and that's all that matters.
Just had some more quick advice. It might help to have formula as an option you keep pushing back, the security of knowing if you really can't breastfeed this time then you don't have to without actually needing to use it. So you might start by saying "I will breastfeed this time and then I will formula feed next time, I can do one more feed" but after that feed push formula back another feed "I will breastfeed this time and then I will formula feed next time, I can do one more feed" and then another feed and another. So just pushing back the goal posts slowly instead of saying a big fat no to formula, know it is an option but delay it in small achievable increments. So even if you use formula at some point, you are working towards increasing the time before first use or between each use.
This is such a hard question, there is no universal answer about stuff like comp feeding and top ups and it is bloody hard.
Personally when I was faced with this I didn't do a formula top up when it was '2 hourly feeding but appearing satisfied at the end of the feed' because as others have suggested it is kinda how your baby and your supply works and if your supply is low the regular feeding is trying to address that. I did however have a handful of feeds with a formula top up (to tide us both over until we could get my supply to come to the party) when we had hit 'screaming from hunger and feeding for hours on end never appearing satisfied getting hoarse from screaming for so long' territory. BUT I was well rested and I could work with the 2 hourly feeds, if I was sleep deprived and really struggling I'm sure my 'line' of when I did a top up would have been drawn in a different place.
So it is day 7, does your gut feeling tell you this is a temporary hungry patch or do you thing this is a ongoing thing? Because they do have extra hungry patches that may last for a few hours or a day or a few days and more often than not they will sort themselves out.....but at the time you assume and feel like this is how it is going to be foreeeeeever and it will never get better. But they do get better, the patches do pass.
But if you (and her) have hit your limit and you do need some formula, can you ring the hospital to check the amount? 80mL (EBM + formula) sounds like a lot to me for 7 days old but you forget these things really quickly so I wouldn't rely on my dodgy memory. Are there any professionals you can ask about volumes?
I just installed the app on my phone and font know how to multi-quote.
My DH is back at work, I have mum and friends popping over to check on me. But the issue for me is sleep. I can't function without it :( Last night she slept in 4 hour blocks! Why is is 2 hours now!?
A few of you suggested laying down feeding. Can I do that alone? Or is it better to have someone around? I try to avoid having her in bed with me or on couch.
And someone asked if she was gulping or just sucking. She gulps for the first 5 minutes then usually just sucks with a bit of gulping for the rest. Sound right??
Sounds right re sucking however she may only be getting foremilk which may not fill her.
My DD did the same and it took a bit of taking off/back on to get her to keep going. My DD is a lazy eater!
As for the sleep, it could all be connected but this phase shall pass once your DD gets the hang of feeding.
BF is hard work, requires commitment, but don't feel bad or guilty if you make the choice of formula.
I was advised by a MW and LC to give formula top ups due to weight loss, late and low milk supply and DD being unsettled. Basically we now only use it IF she seems unsettled and hasn't drank much, but I've now been able to give her BF top ups as my supply has increased. At the end of the day, I figured its not dangerous (it wouldn't be sold if was!) and if DD was putting on weight etc then why should I feel bad??
You are doing great, and remember it all doesn't last forever!
Sounds like your doing a great job the first couple months are so so so hard the sleep depravation and a little bubba trying to get their body used to this world my dd is 11 weeks and has just started to settle but still is colicky I've found infants friend helps or hylands colic tablets which are 100% natural and homeopathic
I've got dh to give dd a formula bottle (ebm if possible) in the afternoon once a week/fortnight so I can go to bed early and get a break and that hasn't effected my supply I'm a big believer in doing what you need to do to help your sanity
Also make sure the milk isn't coming out of bottle too fast that will make her throw up and yes as others say it looks like more than it is especially when your the one covered in it
Her sleep won't be regular or predictable for a while. At least not in my experience anyway. My kids never slept for longer than 3hrs at a time until they were 18 months old. Most of the time it was much less than that, especially when they were really little. Sleeping for 2 hrs at a time is very normal, it's just what babies do. You can't really do anything to change that, especially with such a tiny baby who is still getting used to the world. So just concentrate on you instead. What can you do to make it easier for you? Do nothing else right now except feed baby, feed yourself, change nappies, and sleep! Sleep whenever your baby sleeps during the day to make up for the night. Get your visitors and DH to do all the cleaning. Instead of helping with feeding baby DH could help feed you. He could make all your meals for the next day so all you have to do is grab them from the fridge when you get a moment. Looking after a newborn, particularly your first, is all consuming. Just go with it, don't worry about trying to change it, and know that things will calm down and get easier.
You can feed lying down definitely. You feel so much more rested when you don't actually have to 'get up' at night. Stay in bed all night, get your DH to change nappies if need be. If you need to get up to settle, get your DH to do it. You just gave birth 7 days ago and you're looking after baby by yourself all day, you get the most rest right now. Here are safe co-sleeping guidelines for you:
I would also change baby's nappy before I went to bed and then not again until morning (unless there was poo) so I didn't wake them up too much for night time feeds. Keep the night time feeds very quiet and dark. Whereas during the day you can feed sitting up in a light area so that baby starts to get the idea of night and day.:
Guidelines for co-sleeping
The usual recommendations for safe sleeping apply to babies who share their parents’ beds:
- Put your baby on his back to sleep (never on his tummy or side).
- Make sure his head is uncovered during sleep.
- Keep the sleep environment smoke-free.
Here are some simple additional safety precautions for co-sleeping. These will reduce the chance of SIDS or fatal sleep accidents:
- Don’t sleep with your baby on the couch. This is very dangerous, because your baby can get trapped between you and the cushions and can suffocate.
- Make sure your bed is firm. Don’t use a water bed, or anything soft underneath (for example, a lamb’s wool underlay).
- Use lightweight blankets, not heavy quilts or doonas.
- Make sure that bedding can’t cover your baby’s head.
- Don’t use any pillows.
- An infant sleeping bag can be used instead of bedding, so that your baby doesn’t share adult bedding.
- Put your baby beside one parent, not between parents, so there’s less chance she’ll slip under the bedding.
- Put your baby where he can’t fall out of bed, but not against pillows or a wall. Babies can suffocate under pillows and have died after becoming trapped between the bed and the wall. A safer alternative is to put the mattress on the floor.
- A ’side car crib’ that attaches to your bed provides a separate sleeping surface but keeps your baby close for breastfeeding.
HTH. Keep up the good work xx
Quickly, my hospital and l.c. worked on roughly 150mL per kg of baby weight, divided between the total number of feeds per 24 hours. The L.c. then would recommend a % of this amount per feed based on the physiological signs that the baby wasn't getting enough milk. This is to use a bottle as a top up after a BF, but only if you felt bub was still hungry after 30 mins of good solid BF. I started at 30-40% of a feed, but had to increase to 60% as my babies were always clearly dehydrated by Day 5-7.
This is the advice I was given for a known issue with supply and I impart it here as it may help you. There are always lots of great people to encourage you to BF but sometimes someone needs to say it is OK to give a bottle too, if that is what is going to work for you. I know that there was so much positive BF support that I hated the thought of giving my babies a bottle, even though that is quite clearly what was needed at the time.
:hug: The early days and weeks are such a huge adjustment and it's always extra hard when we're tired and unsure how things are going.
How do you feel the feeding is going? Are you confident your baby is getting plenty of milk?
If you're uncertain about the ins and outs of feeding and how your baby is going, you can try giving the ABA a call - 1800 686 268 - and one of the counsellors can talk you through everything and give you relevant information and some suggestions.
Sometimes, babies take bottles even when they're not really hungry because the milk flows into their mouths and they have to swallow. They may or may not spit it up afterwards. If you're giving her a bottle, you can try pacing the feed, so she has more control and can take only as much as she wants. (more info on pacing feeds here - https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bf-...breastfed-baby)
Being with mum and being held close is pretty much the default for little babies, but it's hard work for mums if we're not well supported ourselves. It's great you have your mum and friend stopping by - are they able to help out with other things so you can rest?
Do you have a sling or carrier to use to settle your baby? It's also something partners can try to help out when baby is unsettled.
Feeding lying down is an excellent way to get some rest while meeting baby's needs, too.
It helps sometimes to switch to survival mode when things are overwhelming - one day at a time, you'll make it through. Take care. I hope you get some rest and things seem a little better soon.
How are you today? Hope you're getting some rest and support. x
Sounds right :) DD would always start a feed actively (and loudly) sucking back the milk, then gradually slow into a more rhythmic flow. And Yes, can can feed laying down or bed share alone. Heaven's co-sleeping post was excellent. In my experience bedsharing with my babies, even when asleep I seem to have an awareness of them next to me and I've never felt they were unsafe or that I would roll on them etc. With both children I found this the best way to get some quality sleep. Both of them slept longer and more soundly having me close (would settle between sleep cycles as they would be snuggled into me or have me close), and as they slept better, so did I.:
Do what works and maximises sleep for you :)
How has your day been, Tasha? I hope you spent lots of it lying down snoozing or resting with your gorgeous DD.
You've been given lots of excellent advice above. I just want to reaffirm that these first few weeks will be really hard. They will. But it'll get easier. Every day, things will seem a little more manageable. There will probably be more bumps along the way but you'll get the hang of this being a mum business.
How are you going with the top ups? Did you end up giving DD a bottle, or did your DH? Someone above mentioned already but remember there are so many other ways your DH can help support you at this time. Many mums find it easier to just concentrate on feeding and leave everything else to their "support crew". Your job, right now, is feeding. Just concentrate on that.
Re feeding lying down - it can be a bit tricky to master, but give it a go. It might just be what you need :hug: