Worst sleeper in the world award

Hi all
Just about had it with dd2 and her sleeping habits.

Dd2 cosleeps with me. She constantly wakes up every 30 to 40 mins.

Either sooks or cries. When she sooks
I will feed her and she will fall back to sleep (she is exclusively bf)

Sometimes in the last few weeks she would wake ul crying and crying and nothing can stop her not even bfing. After about 5 to 10 mins of inconsolable crying she would want the breast and sleep again.

Worse of all she can only sleep on arm and is a light sleeper so i cant move

And i cant get out of my bed coz she will cry. Cant even pee so i need to hold it until shes in reallly deep sleep and even then she will wake and start crying. I think she is teething

Today im just totally fed up. 11 months of this and ive had it.

I cant enjoy a tv show anymore and must sleep by 6.30pm. Lucky i got my phone but i just feel like im gonna go jnsane with this sleep behaviour soon.

How can i stop this constant wAking and reliance on my presence?

Oh dear that's so hard on you. :( I don't have any advice as my LO is hit and miss with sleep too but I didn't want to ignore your post. I hope you can find some ideas and advice from other mamas here.

Gosh that is insane. How can you stop constant waking and her reliance on you? I guess that depends on what you are willing to change. Do you want to keep feeding overnight? Do you want to keep co sleeping? Do you want to be able to settle her without resorting to bf'ing? Do you want to introduce solids? I'm not suggesting any of these things are wrong, just that the combination of these things doesn't seem to be working for your child.

Any or all of those things could contribute to frequent night waking. all babies will learn to sleep through the night eventually but if you want to change this behavioural pattern (assuming there is no medical or developmental reason for frequent waking) then you need to change something about what you are currently doing in order to change your daughters night time behaviour.

Thanks ladies

I forgot to add that i need to cosleep with her because i need to stop her itching her face when she wakes.

She has severe eczema and will itch until she bleeds.

This is with socks on her hands already

Like last night i was so exhausted when she woke i didnt and her face started to bleed again from rubbing

I do definitely want to wean her. She refuses foods and does not want any type of milk or bottles.

Have you modified your diet? Eczema is a sign that she has food intolerances. Cutting out dairy, lentils and beans really helped us. I also cut out gluten and sugar but it wasn't till I cut out the dairy that we saw improvements so you've got to find what works. I would put her on a probiotic like baby biotic too.

The fact that she's refusing food also says to me that she may be in digestive pain and is aware that food hurts. GAPS diet would be a great diet for her. Perhaps look at putting her on the GAPS baby diet because it starts with very gentle and healing foods.

Yes ive cut out diary eggs seafood nuts

But not bread?

I truly sus its diary as she cannot tolerate formula even the soy one she gags


Im on a waiting list to finally see an allergist/immunologist

As my paed said she was too young before.

Will look up GAPs now

Check out Dr Jay Gordan
Xx

I wondered if the needing to sleep on your arm was diet, or uncomfort from lying down, too. My DS has eczema too, but not as bad as your LO, and it flared up with any illness, teething etc in addition to a definite dairy intolerance. This has eased as he has got older (he is 19 months), but dairy is a still a trigger and his tolerance for it decreases when he is sick.

I also had the GP saying there was no point in seeing allergy dudes until he was 2 cos they wouldn't do anything :wall:, which i understand is incorrect, and certainly doesn't help you right now. I suspect that getting the medical issues under control would help the sleep (i know this probably doesn't help right now either!), but i wonder if trying to make behavioural changes now might not be very successful while she is feeling poorly. How long til you can see the allergy people? I wonder if an OT or speechy might also be worth trying to get into, so you can get some advice on positive ways to encourage eating. My MCHN was able to arrange referrals to these.

Is there anybody else who she will go to, so you can a block of sleep every so often? Will she sleep on you, or on the couch next to you, if you are in the lounge? Going to bed that early would drive me crazy, i would prefer to have her up, if she was able to rest or sleep, just so i didn't go mental. There is a spot on our couch where if dd lies down, she can't see the tv so she isn't getting the stimulation from it and can sleep. Headphones so you can hear the tv might work if the noise keeps her awake.

Take care,

From your other posts she eats very very little right? And is 11+ months? I would go back to your GP or MCHN and really push to see someone. Her problems sleeping probably won't resolve until her eating is sorted and at her age really she should be increasing food intake, I would think there must be something more to it than just preferring BM.

Thanks lady
Another bad start to the day with her.

Anyway, i saw the mchn last week. She said she can refer me to a dietian but to tell me to write down all the food she eats in a day and what i eat and her eczema severity.

I booked to see allergist a few months back. First available is november.

He was a highly recommended one and is private so i was extremely shocked with the waiting list.

My dd1 also had severe eczema but was good at eating and became less severe to none.

Some days i can handle it
Other days im struggling hardcore.

I go back to work in a week and her weaning has gone backwards and my mum chucked it yesterday as she could not handle her anymore.

Im just so depressed.

My dh cannot comfort her either as all she wants is mum

I really dont mind her being bf to sleep even at 6.30 but its the screaming non controllably and constant waking thats taking its toll.

Also she wont sleep anywhere but the bed foe her 6.30 sleep :(

J is much the same. Last night a total of 3 hours sleep between 8.30 and 7 :o no thanks to DH's boss who dunked his dummy in beer last night when I picked DH up!!! Grrrr

Food intolerances are the culprit here, which flare up the eczema (though doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as C's). What I eat doesn't affect him thank goodness but he cannot tolerate very much rice, and I suspect he is celiac. We saw a great improvement when we stopped giving him bread. Unfortunately for us though, gluten is in foods you wouldn't suspect so I have to be quite vigilant. Even the tiniest bit will destroy his tummy for days.

reading your post, i would strongly suspect the frequent waking is related to the eczema - if she scratches to the point of bleeding every time she wakes, it's possible (probable?) the itch is waking her - and she needs you to distract her/comfort her back to sleep. when you move away it would take her out of the deep sleep and the itch would irritate her again... i can't imagine sleeping through a severe itch myself, so i assume it would wake her up too. i would push for as much help as you can get. is there something the gp can offer that will help reduce her discomfort, particularly over night?

i don't know much about it at all - but your mention of the severe itch/scratching at every wake up just screamed at me that it was related. poor possum! (and poor mummy - i know how much sleep deprivation screws with you!

Bg thats why i dont mind her bfing to sleep if its a distraction coz thats the only way of stopping her from itching.

Once she starts itching its a vicious cycle because her face starts to weep which causes more itchiness ...

Ive been to a specialist who gave premix creams and oral meds. Her skin became perfect but then her skin got use to the cream and she flared again.

Ive also tried tcm which worked for dd1 but not for dd2.

She is the most full of life gorgeous bundle if not for her eczema. Even the broken sleep doesnt seem to affect her as much as it affects mummy :)

I have read the article Olive gave. Will give that a go tonight!

I have a friend with a baby about the same age as you and she saw a naturopath. This little girls skin when for inflamed and angry looking to completely normal inside a month. It was a dramatic difference. The naturopath prescribed oral herbs, a baby biotic and dietary changes.
Would something like coconut oil keep your DD's skin moist overnight and reduce itching?

I have tried the coconut oil from when kelly suggested it months ago. Didnt help but she did smell edible :)


I just got a referrAl for a naturopath but its $400 a visit which i need to save up for

Many therapies are so expensive. Just while offering up options, there is a dietician/LC in Perth who does skype consults. Her name is Joy Anderson and she has a great reputation with allergies/intolerances. I think she was around $150 for an appt.

i tried many natural type lotions/oils/creams but needed the script medication to get ds ' skin under control.

Could she have reflux? My ds was the same at that age, he woke like that exactly for months from about 10 months old. From 12-16 months we saw drs/mchn nearly a dozen times for help as i strongly suspected reflux, he also vomited a fair few times a week with big choking vomits. They fobbed me off though as he wasnt losing weight (he actually gained an extrodenary amount of weight because of thw constant bf overnight, also a reflux sign). We eventually saw a public paed at 18months, and even though things were fjnally getting better he said i was right and it most definately sounded like reflux. As things were getting better we done a wait and see approach and things continued to improve on their own.
Definitely something to look into perhaps. It really really sucks, i know how hard and how frustrating it is. Gbh xxx
(and please excuse the many typos, typing on my phone is awful lol)

My DD was similar sleeper but only had mild eczema. She did have reflux and colic though of which she was medicated before we had success with an osteopath. It wasn't until just after she was 2.5 that my gut instinct kicked in and I suspected tonsil/ear issues. It turned out she had HUGE tonsils, and super large adenoids which was causing obstructive sleep apnea. She was also silently suffering ear and throat infections and it wasn't until it hit her chest that she started to fever and we realized she was sick. When I took her to GP with my hunch if what was wrong to ask for ENT referral she appeared perfectly healthy, until the GP looked and she had 2 ear infections and a throat infection. GP was so shocked! Because if her severity we got surgery within a few months. I cannot emphasize the difference this made to her sleep and behaviour. I just wish I had of known about baby sleep apnea earlier... Might be worth looking into.

Also, we found putting some oats into a stocking and using that to wash her helped her skin, friends have had great success using hazlewood necklace for eczema also... Similar concept to amber beads.

Dd2 did have reflux but i thought she grew out of it.

She use to projectile vomit after every feed.

But she doesnt anymore.

I am going to take her to see the gp monday after you mentioned about that hunters mum.

Shd does have a slightly larger lump under her chin that i want to check out
Between chin and neck

And she snores quite loudly

My DD was like this and I feel for you as it is so tough. She was on meds for reflux and on a prescription formula. The gastro pead helped us a lot. Keep chasing doctors so you can find out what is going on. I wish I'd done it earlier but was in such a fog of sleep deprivation and exhaustion my brother was the one to push me to see different doctors. Hang in there.

I really feel for you :hug: sleep issues must be so hard :( no advice, but I have settling/sleep issues at the moment too. Xx

I have no advice but just wanted to offer lots of :hug:

I do have a friend with a LO that had allergies and food intoletances and she was def able to see a specialist before her LO turned 2.

good luck, I hope you get some answers and some sleep soon xx

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Dd2 did have reflux but i thought she grew out of it.

She use to projectile vomit after every feed.

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Another thing in common with DS. Reflux symptoms also returned when teething or when sick. It was like he got to a point when he was ok, but illness or teething or growth spurts seemed to lower his threshold for triggers , and his bodies way of expressing it was tummy issues particularly when he was younger, and then later laregly through his skin. a

Oh thanks ladies

To be honest reflux never even crossed my mind as i thought once she got over it it will never return!!!!

Maybe her constant inconsolable crying that bf couldnt fix was coz her tummy is sore???!!

Can normal reflux become silent?

She only had normal projectile reflux not silent one when she was little till around 6 to 7 months.

And yes she is also teething, her two top ones are coming out.

It sounds exhausting but it also sounds like there are a lot more factors going on other than just a reliance on you being there. It will get easier. Hang in there. You're doing a great job.

I just got a referrAl for a naturopath but its $400 a visit which i need to save up for[/QUOTE]
That sounds quite expensive! I've seen a few naturopaths over the years and consult fees have been between $50 and $90. Supplements can add up and herbs are usually about $30.
Perhaps it might be worth giving them a call for a better idea of cost. Some also do payment plans.

Maybe trying mylanta would giveyou an indication if it is reflux again. was she previously medicated?

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Maybe trying mylanta would giveyou an indication if it is reflux again. was she previously medicated?

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Because she was gaining weight and not in pain the gp wasnt fussed.

He did prescribed her Zantac but she only took it once

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That sounds quite expensive! I've seen a few naturopaths over the years and consult fees have been between $50 and $90. Supplements can add up and herbs are usually about $30.
Perhaps it might be worth giving them a call for a better idea of cost. Some also do payment plans.

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This naturopath charges $350 per hr. she comes highly recommended and my friend said first consultation for her was $400 (rates are pro rata)

Then she had to pay for bloods and stools to be sent to a lab in the US which was more money and on top of that supplements.

Atm im not working so i need to research more if this naturopath will help babies.

I can pm you her link if curious :)

My DS5 is on Zantac for reflux. We stopped it at about 9 months as he seemed ok but just started again this week as he's been waking every few hours at night again and he's just 11 months now. Have started the Zantac and within two days he's sleeping better. Perhaps try starting it again to see? It can't hurt anyway. I feel for you - it's hard when only mummy will do xx

Couldn't not post wrt eczema...how are you treating it? Sounds like she def needs something to reduce the itching - when I had a bad flare up, I needed ointments, wrapping with cling wrap and antihistamines to help with the itching so I could sleep, otherwise it kept me awake/woke me up constantly. That should mean she's not trying o constantly tear at her skin at least. Once it's under control, lots of moisturiser and the less invasive stuff help manage it. I can second the oats in the sock in the bath trick too :)

Sounds like there are definite food issues causing our little one lots of discomfort and i think you're onto something with the ears and snoring too. Hope you can sort this out as it sounds horribly draining for you all, and must be so uncomfortable and painful for DD.

Currently i am applying a mixed cream by the doc then 10 mins after vitamin e cream.

Then a few hrs later bactroban then ten mins later dermaid

Then few hrs later bactroban again then ten mins later dermaid

Then bath with qv bath oil

Then mixed cream again
10 mins later vit e cream

Before bed for three nights another premix

The bactroban and dermaid is 7 days on snd 7 days off but i have used it sparingly only as it doesnt seem to help much

Inbetween creams im using qv intensive

:hug: sleep deprivation is the worst

In regards to the naturopath - have you tried calling them and explaining your situation and seeing if there are payment options?


:crossfingers: you get some answers soon

That's certainly a regime - poor things, both of you. Has the dr suggested an antihistamine for the itch too?

Hope you're having a better night x

Its hard isnt it!?
My oldest is a dream sleeper, but DS is lucky to go a 2 hr stretch at night (more often than not feeds at most every 45 minutes!)
Thankfully though he will go down on his own, so I do get an hour or so to myself before I go to bed.
This too shall pass xox

I have the same with Liebling. Now age six and a half. However, it is no longer every night. Just half of them.

What treatments do you have for the eczema? We use chlorphenamine maleate syrup at night (care, as children cannot operate heavy machinary after taking this) and have to change moisturiser every 6-8 months as it stops working for some reason. We have done a LOT of different moisturisers, but we can go back after a long break.

Nail clipping is also a big event (he now can do his own thankfully), as are baths with suitable emolients - the pair of us with 5x the normal dosage for up to an hour when necessary (btw, it stinks and you and your DD will too after that).

The really bad nights, we used to have a DVD on in the bedroom. DH would sleep in Liebling's room and I'd be with Liebs in bed and when he woke he had a distraction so that helped. Not loads, but enough that I could function the next day without needing to eat braynes. Braynes. And again, I say braynes. *Lurch, shuffle, sit and cry quietly in the corner.*

Oh yes, I almost forgot - we have had a steroid creams prescribed. They work well, but I don't like having to use them. But, yanoo, I don't like craving brains either.

It's definitely tough. Maybe you are disturbing each other? Is she able to sleep beside you in her own cot or bassinet but not actually with you? I know I would try and put mine in with me at times but we both slept worse.

I'm glad to hear you are following this up but sorry to hear that there's such a long wait to see the allergist. FWIW it might be worth ringing them every week or two and asking if any cancellations have come up - tell the receptionist how much it's affecting both of your sleep - they might open an appt for you when they know a little more about your story.

I would also be keen to follow up with the dietician - there is a limited window to introduce solids after which children become quite resistant so it's important you get some help with this soon.

Have you started back at work yet? How is that going? My DD was waking frequently between 5-9 months and I was a complete zombie, I can't imagine trying to get to work every day like that. Hang in there, it will get better :hug:

I had to get a mat leave extension.

Wanted 6 months but only got 2 months extension which i guess is better than nothing so returning end of oct.

I went to a dermatologist specialist and got her blood and skin tested.

What a traumatic experience!

I get my results back tomorrow to see if she is allergic to a few things.

With regards to me waking her. I share a queen just with her and have tried putting her on one side while i sleep on the other but she still wakes.

I also have to be close so i can restrain her arms when she scratches.