Alternatives to HPTs, blood tests & ultrasounds to confirm a possible pregnancy

Hello, this is my first post.

I believe I am 7-weeks pregnant but keep getting BFN with the HPTs.

I do not want to be get a blood test because I had one previously which I'm certain induced a very early miscarriage. However, the pregnancy nor the miscarriage was confirmed because my HCG level was below 5 i.e 3-4. (But I 'know' that I was because I kept getting very strange pulling and fluttering sensations in my belly over the weeks but the HPTs kept showing a BFN).

On the day I took the blood test, I started to bleed that very afternoon lightly and I bleed thereafter for 2 weeks (really heavy clots with strands and had excruciating pains like I've never had before). My period stopped for the first time since beginning my menstruation for two months. I resumed them after but the length of my period varies greatly now.

So, I will not be getting any blood tests. Also, I've read that ultrasounds can cause spontaneous miscarriages and harm the baby. Thus, I'm not sure what else I can do besides having a doppler stethoscope used to hear the baby's heartbeat, but I think I need to wait until the 8-10 week milestone for that method. I'm wondering if there are other safe, non-invasive methods to test for pregnancy (besides wait & see!)?

Here are my pregnancy symptoms to date: (NB I did get my 'period'late last month, and at first I thought it was a sign of miscarriage, as I bleed heavy and had some clots & excruciating thigh pain like I never get from my periods. But the period/ bleeding lasted about 2.5 days and they usually last 4-5 days. So, I think it might have been really heavy 'breakthrough' bleeding. Not sure...)

- Really sore stomach muscles & side muscles
- Need to sleep elevated in the early morning because of intense lower back pain
- Breasts are growing and so is my abdomen
- Constant dull headache
- Major daytime/ evening bloat (I already need to start considering maternity pants - can't wear my former jeans etc)
- Turned off my usual 85% dark chocolate craving
- Sides of breasts are tender
- Knees are wobbly (have no previous problems with knees)
- Hip pain (no previous problems with hips)
- Eyes are lighter and changing colour
- Feel much warmer (feel real warm- hot in bed, must sleep with far less bed clothes).
- Felt dizzy/ faint today
- A little more vaginal mucus (no pain, itch, or strong smell so it's not yeast related etc)
- Ultra tired and sleepy - go to sleep really early
- Very vivid & strange dreams
- My stomach is hyper sensitive i.e. hurt stomach badly the other day just by placing a skirt over my now flabby stomach (lifted entire stomach accidentally with the skirt and it got caught my belly "fat" and I felt really strong belly pain/ sore muscle pain for 2 days).
- I had implantation pain. My implantation 'stitch' pain lasted 1 week. The day following the commencement of the stitch pain, I had light implantation bleeding for 2 days (light brown streak).
- Drool a little at night
- Can't 'hold' to go to the toilet to do a pee (which is unlike me).
- More clumsy, less able to multitask (i.e. usually have lots of thoughts going on in my brain, but my mental capacity has somewhat diminished - this is sort of good & bad, for example, good that I don't get so stressed & sensitive about little things, but bad that I forget to do some routine things/ tasks)
- Have problems sitting at desk for too long
- Can't exercise or walk long for too long (not that I have tried exercising since finding out I could be pregnant to be on the safe side, but I'm too tired to or sore to do anything)
- Can't lift heavy items without getting stomach muscle pain
- Feel physically completely different to my usual self.


I'd like to see a doctor soon to get confirmation of a pregnancy (and start planning), but I want to know what pregnancy options I can ask the doctor to perform that are 100% safe and non-invasive (NB I don't want a vaginal inspection as I've heard these can potentially be harmful to the baby too). Any advice?

Also, are there people on this forum that never get a positive pregnancy test but still deliver? Or are there any women that have received a positive pregnancy test result after 7 weeks?

Thanks!
Pegasus :)

if you dont want to have a blood test, or an ultrasound or an internal there is not much more they can do, unless like you said you wait until 13-15 weeks to try and find the hb on a doppler, or you wait 8 months and see if a baby pops out. A simple blood test would be highly unlikely to cause a miscarriage, and an external ultrasound again would be highly unlikely to cause a miscarriage...even an amniocentsis only carries a miscarriage risk of 0.5%. If you really do think you are pregnant you are better off going to talk to your GP or obstetrician who can give you some answers. Yes there are people around that dont get positive HPT's and late HPT's but they usually go in and have a beta done to confirm pregancy

A blood test on you cant hurt a baby. Many pregnancies end in miscarriage. A blood test wouldnt cause that. The timing would be coincidental. If the HCG was low then it's likely it was a chemical pregnancy, a term given to pregnancies that end before a heartbeat is detected. It's sad but it's noone's fault.

The other way to confirm a pregnancy is wait. Back in the day, women were advised to wait until they'd missed 2 periods before confirming a pregnancy. It depends on what model of antenatal & birth care you'd prefer. Private OBs book out fast - like 5/6 weeks pregnant fast. It's not such an issue with public hospitals, depending on where you live.

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if you dont want to have a blood test, or an ultrasound or an internal there is not much more they can do, unless like you said you wait until 13-15 weeks to try and find the hb on a doppler, or you wait 8 months and see if a baby pops out. A simple blood test would be highly unlikely to cause a miscarriage, and an external ultrasound again would be highly unlikely to cause a miscarriage...even an amniocentsis only carries a miscarriage risk of 0.5%. If you really do think you are pregnant you are better off going to talk to your GP or obstetrician who can give you some answers. Yes there are people around that dont get positive HPT's and late HPT's but they usually go in and have a beta done to confirm pregancy

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Hi Mummame, thanks for replying! Yes, I might have to wait longer to try the doppler heart beat method.

As for ultrasounds, I read that they potentially carry risks
As for seeing an obstetrician, I'd like to bypass that option and only see a midwife/ doula. I'm planning a natural birth as I'm into natural health.

Re the blood test, it was too much of coincidence to rule out it induced a miscarriage, especially since I took it far too early (maybe week 3-6?), thinking also it could not induce a miscarriage (but I did start to bleed the afternoon I took the blood test - so the potential correlation of a cause-effect is there, also, I've read on other forums that women have miscarried on the day they took an ultrasound that confirmed their just pregnancy. So I think it is possible that any unnatural medical intervention can cause a miscarriage, that's why it's not traditionally medically advisable to take a blood test if there are no compelling medical reasons for it. That's why I'm so upset about taking the blood test & feel that the doctor perhaps was not properly informed/ educated of the possible risk of miscarriage risks so early in a pregnancy. In hindsight, the doctor should have told me to go home and wait longer i.e. wait until two missed periods etc. I am now much better informed, and hope doctors in future will also understand the hazards of unecessary medical intervention. But still, I'm no expert and eager to be better educated on such matters by others such yourself :)


Cheers :)

I guess all you can do is wait... like L&B said back in the ole days women waited for two missed periods before they started any form of testing and even then it was minimal. If you don't like ultrasounds you will not like dopplers, they work exactly the same as ultrasounds (sound waves) look up doppler danger on FB. I guess if you are happy to not have ANY intervention you should be happy to just wait it out...

ps-Dr's can only 'intervene' if you go to them. When you turn up in a Dr's office they naturally want to help you, their way of helping people is tests etc. I think you can't blame them, the patient has as much responsibility to ask questions and understand what is going on before they say yes to what the Dr recommends. (As a person who uses homoeopathics and natural remedies I practise the above mentioned)

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A blood test on you cant hurt a baby. Many pregnancies end in miscarriage. A blood test wouldnt cause that. The timing would be coincidental. If the HCG was low then it's likely it was a chemical pregnancy, a term given to pregnancies that end before a heartbeat is detected. It's sad but it's noone's fault.

The other way to confirm a pregnancy is wait. Back in the day, women were advised to wait until they'd missed 2 periods before confirming a pregnancy. It depends on what model of antenatal & birth care you'd prefer. Private OBs book out fast - like 5/6 weeks pregnant fast. It's not such an issue with public hospitals, depending on where you live.

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Hi LionandBears, I think that's very sage advice about waiting for two missed periods before seeing a doctor. Wish I new this a while ago! And no, I'd prefer not seeing an OB if that's at all possible. Only a midwife/ doula.

I thought these two websites were elucidating on the possible risks of non-essential medical intervention:


After my own experience, it has even more resonance.

Re the potential I had chemical pregnancy that would never have become a baby, that's entirely possible. But maybe my HCG does not metabolize in my urine nor my blood (if that is at all possible??). I'll never know now. But what I do know is that I had intense fluttering, stretching and pulling sensations so something was 'happening'. I also had the stitch pain (implantation?). So in my heart, I feel it wasn't a chemical pregnancy but a miscarriage brought on by the early blood test. Could I be wrong, yes. But intuitively & circumstantially, I feel it is the case.

Thanks for replying to my question LionandBears :)

to add to my above reply... your uterus pops above your pubic bone around 12 weeks, so a midwife can confirm then for you.

HCG will show up in the blood if you are pregnant >5 and it is considered pregnant.
it appears by the results of your previous BHCG you were not considered pregnant clinically. as others have said there is no connection between having a blood test and a spontaneous miscarriage the 2 are simply not connected. the 3mls of blood taken to be tested would not have made any difference to the blood supply to your uterus. perhaps the pregnancy had already ended and that day was simply the day you started to bleed.

fluttering stretching and pulling sensations are not normal early pregnancy signs, which it appears you have already searched for to decide if you are pregnant. A blood test is likely to be the best and safest way to confirm pregnancy. IF you want to confirm it rather then waiting to see what happens.

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I guess all you can do is wait... like L&B said back in the ole days women waited for two missed periods before they started any form of testing and even then it was minimal. If you don't like ultrasounds you will not like dopplers, they work exactly the same as ultrasounds (sound waves) look up doppler danger on FB. I guess if you are happy to not have ANY intervention you should be happy to just wait it out...

ps-Dr's can only 'intervene' if you go to them. When you turn up in a Dr's office they naturally want to help you, their way of helping people is tests etc. I think you can't blame them, the patient has as much responsibility to ask questions and understand what is going on before they say yes to what the Dr recommends. (As a person who uses homoeopathics and natural remedies I practise the above mentioned)

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Hi Ladybirdflies, thanks for your important insight. Gee whizz, I never knew that dopplers carried risks too!! Are there any pregnancy test methods that don't carry risk?? For example, can the doctor use just a regular stethoscope? Can that hear the baby's heartbeat (or just my gas?lol). I don't know what to do. Guess I'll keep using the HPTs and see if my belly starts to grow significantly.

Otherwise, I was thinking of trying this unconventional method. Using the "Intelligender". Apparently, it has some success on determining whether you are having a boy or girl. I'm wondering whether it only gives a 'reading'/ changes colour if you're pregnant?

Re blaming the doctor for the 'miscarriage', I don't blame the doctor per se for giving me a blood test, but I do believe that it was remiss of the doctor to give me a blood test when I had no compelling medical reason to do so apart from verifying a potential pregnancy. It was unnecessary and ill-advised. The doctor was the "professional". But of course, I know they were only trying to be helpful and obviously was not cognisant/ educated of the potential risks of early blood tests (i.e. carried out at an early stage of pregnancy). So, no, I don't blame the doctor. But as I see it, I lost my baby. So it was a major error. But it was more my error. I totally blame myself for seeking a blood test. It was up to me to protect my baby, even from well-intentioned medical professionals. As a result, I'm so weary now of all non-essential medical interventions. (And if it wasn't for my pregnancy symptoms and having no positive HPT results after 7 weeks, I wouldn't be divulging the issue now, as I've moved on & learned from that heartbreaking experience. Hopefully, the doctor has too so no other women is subjected to a potential miscarriage via an unnecessary blood test). Then of course, it could have been a chemical pregnancy as others suggest. And then there's the fact that there will always be a risk in everything we do - that's life! But we can minimize risks and should take the less risky option when we can (especially in relation to a pregnancy).

In any case, the experience taught me to be extra careful, more accountable & read widely on pregnancy related issues. It's also reaffirmed my wish for a natural birth with lest intervention/ no intervention. And I do appreciate greatly learning more about pregnancy from you and others on this forum. Thanks for replying Ladybirdflies :)

Cheers :)

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to add to my above reply... your uterus pops above your pubic bone around 12 weeks, so a midwife can confirm then for you.

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Awesome, thanks for this information Ladybirdflies :) !!!

I don't think blood tests would have a risk of miscarriage and if your result was 3-4 at the time the blood was collected then it was probably a chemical pregnancy and failing prior to the blood test already
I don't want to sound harsh I had a Chem too and feel it was just as important as my own living children
If there was a notable risk they would have a duty of care to advise you of it
But ultimately I guess you can only do what you feel your are comfortable with and if these tests are going to give you stress then waiting is really the only thing you can do eventually a baby is going to come out if you are pregnant

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HCG will show up in the blood if you are pregnant >5 and it is considered pregnant.
it appears by the results of your previous BHCG you were not considered pregnant clinically. as others have said there is no connection between having a blood test and a spontaneous miscarriage the 2 are simply not connected. the 3mls of blood taken to be tested would not have made any difference to the blood supply to your uterus. perhaps the pregnancy had already ended and that day was simply the day you started to bleed.

fluttering stretching and pulling sensations are not normal early pregnancy signs, which it appears you have already searched for to decide if you are pregnant. A blood test is likely to be the best and safest way to confirm pregnancy. IF you want to confirm it rather then waiting to see what happens.

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Hi Glorious, yes, my signs were pregnancy signs (just research) and the fact I bled very heavy blood & clots for two weeks (this has NEVER happened to me before, I usually bleed 4-5 days max), had excruciating pains as I bled (far more than usual period cramps) and that my period stopped for 2 months thereafter are all classic miscarriage signs (just research). And I knew/ felt I was pregnant. Moreover, I read that HCG can only be present if you're pregnant (unless you're a female over 40- 44 yo).

So, I respectfully disagree with your assertion that blood tests are 100% safe for pregnant women. I certainly would never choose that option again. But thanks for replying Glorious :)

Cheers :)

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I don't think blood tests would have a risk of miscarriage and if your result was 3-4 at the time the blood was collected then it was probably a chemical pregnancy and failing prior to the blood test already
I don't want to sound harsh I had a Chem too and feel it was just as important as my own living children
If there was a notable risk they would have a duty of care to advise you of it
But ultimately I guess you can only do what you feel your are comfortable with and if these tests are going to give you stress then waiting is really the only thing you can do eventually a baby is going to come out if you are pregnant

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Hi Jellybean88, thanks for sharing your similar experience. I appreciate your insight, experience, empathy and point of view.

Re blood tests, I've read caveats on numerous websites that doctors don't normally perform a blood test on women to confirm a pregnancy unless there is a specific medical reason to do so. So, I guess the risk is recognized, otherwise it would be a standard procedure.

Guess I'll have to wait & see unless I source another non-invasive method or get a positive HPT result.

Cheers :)

Blood tests do not cause miscarriages. Around one in four pregnancies end in miscarriage due to problems inherent in the developing fetus.

Ive had a chem. I bled for 10 days and it was exactly as you described. Normally I would bleed for 4 or 5 days.

By the time I had the blood test to confirm (the afternoon I started bleeding, AFTER I started bleeding),there was nothing to suggest the pregnancy had existed. But like you, I just knew. Although, I had also had positive hpts to confirm, some women dont get positive hpts for up to a week or so past when their period is due.

The reason that the pathology results say a result of less than 5, is negative for pregnancy is because some women DO have small amounts of hcg present whether they are pregnant or not. It says it on my beta hcg result forms, as well as quite a few websites I have visited over the years. Thats not to say you werent pregnant of course. No-one can know that for sure, except you. But it can happen.

The only reason I can think that a blood test may 'cause' a miscarriage is if you find them particularly stressful. Even then the jury is out on whether extreme stress really causes miscarriage or not.

Whatever the case, Im so very sorry for your loss. I hope that you are correct, and that you have a very happy, healthy and boring 9ish months.

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Re blood tests, I've read caveats on numerous websites that doctors don't normally perform a blood test on women to confirm a pregnancy unless there is a specific medical reason to do so. So, I guess the risk is recognized, otherwise it would be a standard procedure.

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Are you sure it's not a specific kind of blood test they're talking about though? Or something like an amniocentesis? Because a blood test to confirm pregnancy is standard procedure.

I'm very sorry for your loss, but I wonder if perhaps you're simply looking for something to blame (completely understandable!) and have jumped on the blood test because it happened to be the same day you started bleeding? I've never heard of a blood test causing a miscarriage, so I'd be looking at the more common reasons if it were me. Big hugs, it's tough not knowing for certain what happened :(

Sorry if this is crass, but having a vaginal exam to confirm a pg would be no more damaging to the baby than a penis would be during sex. I think you are well within your right to choose not to have a vaginal exam or any other test, but I do think your logic is a little flawed. Are you wanting a midwife for a homebirth or a birth centre birth? You would be hard pressed to find a midwife that would be comfortable with your refusing of any testing during your pg because it can reflect on them if you don't and something goes wrong if you were having a homebirth and if you were wanting a midwife birth centre birth then you won't be able to avoid the tests and still be able to birth there as they have their own regulations that must be followed etc.

To answer your question, yes a well trained doctor /midwife would be able to use a stethoscope to detect babies heartbeat but not until after 20 weeks, some women it takes even longer to hear it through the skin...like closer to 30. That is an awfully long time to wait for confirmation of a pregnancy

Mummame I would be very concerned if a dr or midwife could not find the fetal heart at 20 weeks! Let alone 30 :o

Actually its incredibly difficult to hear a fetal heartbeat using a stethoscope - they just aren't sensitive enough.

I'm 38 weeks and even 2 weeks ago we couldn't hear the heartbeat with my husbands stethoscope. And baby definitely has one LOL

My midwife was using a pinard as we prefer not to use a doppler. She was able to locate the heartbeat everytime and left it at our house for the children to use in between appointments. Right at the end and because of baby position my hubby could hear it through my skin without using anything!!

Thanks for everyone's answers (even though I disagree with most posters answers re the safety of blood tests for pregnant women i.e. just as they've confirmed certain vaccinations can cause autism [just research various court judgements], most doctors or big pharma won't recognise the link yet).

But especially a big thanx to the people that expressed kindness & empathy. It means a lot. I'll keep looking for alternatives. Perhaps, this isn't the forum for exploring that option or non-traditional birthing methods etc.

Blessing to All.

double post

There is a lot of unnecessary intervention in pregnancy and birth these days. I believe it is important to acknowledge this, and research the options and their benefits and risks to out what you are comfortable with.

The Thinking Guide to a Better Birth by Henci Goer is a great place to start.

I am interested in your idea that blood tests can be harmful, because it's not something that i have encountered before. Is it the volume of blood that is taken, or just the puncturing of the skin that can be harmful? Are you concerned that something is injected in to you during the blood collection?

I understand that vaccinations can be harmful because 'stuff' is being injected into the blood, and many other women here also question the safety and efficacy of vaccines. There is a section on vaccines you can check out. Vaccination Information and Research

Is there a reason you need your pregnancy confirmed by someone else? A good midwife can palpate and often feel the pregnancy and baby position without any need for ultrasound or doppler.

take care

-Intelligender will not determine whether you're pregnant or not, it's based in the ph levels in your urine with the theory being the ph rises or falls depending on the sex of your baby

-Blood tests won't cause miscarriages

-If you don't want a medical way of finding out if you're pregnant, just wait until your belly starts to grow

-It has never been confirmed that any vaccines causes autism

A urine test can confirm your pregnancy at around 5/6wks by your GP. I'm sorry for your loss and it is unfortunate that it happened on the day you had a blood test but it really is coincidental.

Regards,
Dianne

I'm sorry for your previous loss.

I'm also sorry to hear that you have so much mistrust of health care professionals. I don't know if this stems from any other previous experiences besides your pregnancy loss but if so perhaps it would be helpful to discuss it with someone.

I hope you have the pregnancy outcome you desire and can find a care provider (eg. midwife) who you're happy to work with without compromising your health or that of your pregnancy/baby.

Hi there Pegasus. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. Whatever the cause, it sucks that you've had to deal with that. No wonder you are anxious to avoid going through it again.

I would suggest that you try some different HPTs, maybe research to find the most sensitive. It could be that your cycle is still out of whack and you've conceived later than you first thought. The lighter bleeding than your normal AF could just be that your lining is still not back to your usual levels, or hormonal changes since your m/c. I often have an AF exactly like you described that bleed.

The urine test at a dr will not be any better than what you can buy at a pharmacy. It must be driving you nuts to have no period and negative HPTs, but I'd give it another try in a week or so. You may have used faulty tests too.

If they are still negative and no AF, then I'd suggest you talk to a health professional about other causes for a missing cycle. Internet research aside, there is no way you'd have too little HCG in your urine to test positive and sustain a pg from about 2 weeks past conception. Even though levels do taper off after 12 wks they are still many thousand times higher than what is needed to get a positive HPT.

TTC can really mess with your head and all the physical symptoms you've noted may or may not indicate pg. You only have to read our TWW threads to see how every little thing messes with your head!

All of the other medical procedures that may or may not affect your pg and baby are entirely up to you, of course. But by the time they are a consideration, there would be no doubt you are pg. As an aside, there are birth attendants and some midwives (not all registered) who would be willing to care for you and your pg at home under all of your conditions. But you would need to ask around and I'm not sure where you're located. The homebirth groups are a good place to start as their are people in those who form a range of views across the continuum.

It wasn't me...

Glorious, using a standard stethoscope it is very hard to find the foetal heart rate and its not unusual to have difficulty finding it prior to 20 weeks.

Sorry I misread stethoscope and thought fetoscope.

Hugs Pegasus. Sounds like you're in that awful realm of not knowing something you really want to know!

Of course, it's ultimately your body and your life, and I totally respect your desire to do nothing that might harm your precious little one. I've been there myself.

But 2 kids later, what I've realised is that going through life trying to stop anything bad from happening is a futile exercise. And it's one that will do your head in. This isn't to say we should be careless with our lives or the lives of those entrusted to us, but I think we risk missing out on the joys of life if we spend our time avoiding its sorrows.

I hope you are holding your precious little one in about 9 months.

Double post

As others have said above, there is no mechanism by which taking blood from a vein in your arm can trigger a miscarriage. I'm sorry to hear of your loss after your b/t, but it would just be a horrible coincidence.

While I respect those who prefer to avoid unnecessary u/s (due to a perceived risk), there are many, many healthy pregnancies during which the foetus is exposed to multiple u/s without any repercussions. There are very clear medical reasons for performing obstetric u/s. For example, my missed m/c could not have been diagnosed without an u/s. If the (dead) foetus had been left in me it could have caused an infection or other nasty consequences and so I am grateful that we have the technology to identify these problems.

Additionally, a doppler uses the same technology (ultrasonic sound waves) as a medical u/s, so objecting to u/s but embracing a doppler is quite a contradictory stance...

If you really want to avoid modern technology in diagnosing a pg, you have to go back to waiting for the baby to start kicking (usually after 20wks). That's how they used to know that women were pg in ye olde days...