Where in Melbourne, good public high school, on train and tram?

Firstly this has nothing to do with our "neighbor issues". It is something that has been on my/our mind a while - we currently live in a small 2 bed flat in Camberwell, we are zoned for a good public primary (bilingual program) which I like (DD due to start 2015), and also I am happy with the idea of the local high school Camberwell High.

However, it is going to be difficult to afford to move up to a three bed house here (in part due to shortage of that size of residence), and we may end up always having to rent. We also don't really 'fit in' round here, which isn't really a problem but maybe elsewhere would be better? We ended up here by complete chance, and the only other place we have lived in Melbourne was 3 months in Elsternwick.

Anyway so in terms of doing my due diligence really and actually thinking about if maybe we should look elsewhere, trying to work out where else might suit us.

Criteria

• On train and tram (train approx 20 mins from city)
• Good public high school (co-ed)

So not many criteria really - I tried looking on a list of good schools, but I am not that convinced those lists are always the best account of schools, also was taking forever trying to rule out single sex and selective schools and not knowing where half the schools are in the first place.

Maybe we would still not be able to afford a three bed in these areas but at least I would feel like had looked into them.

Glen Waverley Secondary
Balwyn Secondary
Ringwood Secondary
Mount Waverley Secondary

The problem is though that property prices/availability are affected by the fact they are good schools!

Eta - sorry, didnt see the 20 mins from city criteria.... These are all further than that. I think you'll find the 'good' public schools close to the city are either selective entry or single sex or both.

was going to say Glen Waverley High too. It's got a great rep and is used as a selling point for many of the properties in the area. It is further than 20mins but there is a train line right in the heart of Glen Waverley.

over the other side of the city is Williamstown High. It's 20mins by train from the city

Thanks for those replies - yes those schools all come up if you do searches - we would rather stay put than move further out. Balwyn isn't far from city but its public transport isn't much cop in my opinion, and is as pricey as where we are really.

Yes good schools do effect the prices significantly it seems. Camberwell High School - which would be current possibility, or Auburn High School (which is new - well is Hawthorn Secondary rebranded and offering new language initiatives) is not as high as those listed above in the rankings - so I suppose I am looking for is schools of a similar standing - when I say good I suppose what I mean is not a 'bad' school - not necessarily placing that high in academic rankings etc. It seems difficult to find out much information on people's perceptions of schools without knowing the names of schools to start with IYKWIM.

Northcote is one that have read positive things about - and while area is still pricey median is significantly less than where we are. I looked that up because happened to drive past it yesterday.

I suppose the other thing is - is there an easy way of working out what the zones are for the various schools - some just say it has to be nearest school by distance - but if you don't know the other schools in the area how do you work that out?

Blackburn Secondary is good too. On the Camberwell line.

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I suppose the other thing is - is there an easy way of working out what the zones are for the various schools - some just say it has to be nearest school by distance - but if you don't know the other schools in the area how do you work that out?

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Some schools have maps on their website. Otherwise, the schools will be marked on a Melways, etc.

Yes seems very few have maps unfortunately. It seems a hardcopy Melways is the only way. Some even have a predefined email format to use to ask for confirmation of an address being in a zone.

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I suppose the other thing is - is there an easy way of working out what the zones are for the various schools - some just say it has to be nearest school by distance - but if you don't know the other schools in the area how do you work that out?

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Have you looked at the myschool website? You can get a list of schools in particular suburbs and compare stats etc... Take some of the results with a grain of salt, but you can compare them a bit. You can at least see how far different schools are from each other...unfortunately schools are not "zoned" per se anymore. It really is simply which is the closest physically. They used to have particular zoned areas, but it's different now... Although you could argue its still a "zone"- DEECD just doesn't really refer it them in that way anymore... It seems to be just the real estate agents that do that.

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Have you looked at the myschool website? You can get a list of schools in particular suburbs and compare stats etc... Take some of the results with a grain of salt, but you can compare them a bit. You can at least see how far different schools are from each other...unfortunately schools are not "zoned" per se anymore. It really is simply which is the closest physically. They used to have particular zoned areas, but it's different now... Although you could argue its still a "zone"- DEECD just doesn't really refer it them in that way anymore... It seems to be just the real estate agents that do that.

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Thanks that is what I have found - it certainly doesn't make it easy to work out when you are looking at areas you are unfamiliar with - it seems the only way is to get Google maps, and plot on to it where the schools are (using the myschool website listing) and then can see which would be closest to.

The primary school here does actually display a map showing it as a zone - but it is under review so I wonder whether they will stop using the term zone too. It seems funny they are considering shrinking the zone - we are dead center of it, but I don't actually know anyone else with children who lives in the zone, and yes they are building more flats and apartments etc in the zone (which is the rational listed for the review) but these aren't in the main getting filled by families. I would like to know where all the children that are filling up to the enrollment ceiling hang out - because I never seem to see many or cross paths with them. The other family in this block of flats that had two children have moved out now they have got them both into the school - so maybe lots of people do that?

I doubt we will end up doing anything - things could all change by the time DD is ready for secondary school - but at least now I know how complicated working out a move would be.

You are right, it is tricky. Probably things will change when she is old enough for secondary, so it's probably something you can't plan right now. Other families are probably doing both those things. I work within the Glen Waverley SC area and families will do a lot to "get in" the house prices are ridiculous for what they are - and really it's still just a school. If you bring your child up with the values you have, it probably doesn't matter if you get don't go to the 'so called' best schools... Cause... How do you define 'best'? Depends on what your values are ... Some of the schools we are discussing here have pretty crappy welfare structures, and don't deal with special needs well... Which annoys me, cause even if my child is doing well... I want to know that there is that support there if I need it.

Hi wysiwig,
It must be really difficult to work all this out when you are unfamiliar with areas. it is bad enough trying to work out a high school in the area we live! we are on the lilydale/belgrave line about 25 minutes from the city so thought I would put in my 2cents worth.
The zone thing is confusing. it is my understanding there is no such thing as a boundary. It is more about going to the closest school to where you live. it seems to vary across the suburbs also. I have heard that in some of the inner city suburbs there are specific "zones" but at DD's school about 4 years they applied to DEECD to put a ceiling on numbers as they did not want to get any bigger. So they got approval to not advertise and to actively discourage people from enrolling if it was not the people's closest school. I got the impression that they weren't allowed to apply a "zone" but it may be possible closer to the city where there is a higher density of population. But as you say, it is strange that you never see these children!
In high school, they seem to be able to enforce the "zone" much more. AT the school DD will be going to , you have to prove you are a resident of the area every year and they don't guarantee enrollment if you are not a resident.
So to your specific questions, but I am only familiar with eastern suburbs so can't help much. Anywhere in from Box Hill toward the city is unlikely to be have property much cheaper than Camberwell. So that means you need to go out between Box Hill and Ringwood. But that will extend the travel time on the train to more like 25 minutes.When those areas were developed in the 1940's to 1960's there were lots of 3 bedroom homes and now they are knocking many down and building 2 or 3, 2 or 3 bedroom units on one block so there are lots of options.
As for schools, as N2L says Blackburn has developed a good reputation. Box Hill is good but has a selective entry component so difficult to tell how good the "normal" stream is as you can't separate out the selective entry.
Another option is Doncaster. If you are close to the EAstern Freeway, it has a bus lane and the bus trip to the city is really quick. Also you are then close to Eastlink for work in the south east. (I think I remember you are needing work in a specific industry) There is a good high school in Doncaster, doncaster east I think it is.
Perhaps you could go to a few open houses in an area that meets the criteria and just see if it is option for buying or renting. Moving out of Camberwell to a bit further out, sooner rather than later, might help you get some money together for a deposit.
good luck. schools are a difficult enough decision without having to factor in moving as well.

Agree entirely with Myturn. I have friends that have a child at one of the top public high schools in the east but their second child has special needs and the school basically refused to take him.
You would be seriously annoyed if you paid alot of money to buy a house to guarantee that you child could go to the high school in the area and then they were refused. And you have to question, because they are geared to achieve results at VCE, what happens with the children who encounter problems both social and academic, along the way.

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You are right, it is tricky. Probably things will change when she is old enough for secondary, so it's probably something you can't plan right now. Other families are probably doing both those things. I work within the Glen Waverley SC area and families will do a lot to "get in" the house prices are ridiculous for what they are - and really it's still just a school. If you bring your child up with the values you have, it probably doesn't matter if you get don't go to the 'so called' best schools... Cause... How do you define 'best'? Depends on what your values are ... Some of the schools we are discussing here have pretty crappy welfare structures, and don't deal with special needs well... Which annoys me, cause even if my child is doing well... I want to know that there is that support there if I need it.

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Yes we are not really bothered about 'best' - but it is most difficult to find out much about schools unless you have some area to focus on apart from the schools rankings - and if you google for opinions you always get the same few schools. I suppose all I would really be concerned about is moving to an area where all the high schools don't have good reputations, as I don't really believe in private school, and I also don't want children to have a big commute time.

I don't think I actually know anyone in Melbourne with their children at high school, so is difficult to find out much and living where we live most people seem quite dismissive of public high schools (e.g. there must be parents of all the children who go to Camberwell High somewhere round here though). Most of my friends put a much higher value on the rankings of the school - so we are not really in the same sphere when talking with them (either they will live in area for one of schools mentioned above or will go private) - one is a teacher so should be a good source of info, but she is very dismissive of anything that isn't ranked in top 10 public.

Although it is true further in towards the city isn't going to be significantly cheaper - but it does seem to depend - if you compare the median house price in Camberwell with lots of further in suburbs they are cheaper because the 'median' house in Camberwell for example is significantly bigger than other suburbs which historically were less affluent. Richmond for example has far more small three bedroom properties - but there seems to only be two state schools in Richmond (Melbourne Girls College - not much good for DS and I strongly favor co-ed anyway & a community college which is extremely small and seems to cater for students who have had problems in mainstream schools). Northcote area also seems to have more of the right size housing.

I hadn't realized that about Box Hill having a selective entry stream, or really realized the effect that can have on rankings.

The lack of the train at the moment to Doncaster puts me off there, but who knows maybe they will get something soon:-)

At the moment unless I have to drive to work (e.g. at moment am in Truganina for a couple of months) we can go weeks without having to use the car at all - I really would love to maintain that, and people I know who live further out east even if near a train line do seem to be more car dependent than that.

Before I started this thread and started doing more research I think I thought I was missing something - some vital website or piece of info that could help - now I know better :-)

No magic website unfortunately :-( I think most people rely on local knowledge and word of mouth. But sounds like it will be difficult for you to get that at the moment. Just keep asking everyone you meet.

As your DD goes through primary school you will pick up lots of info from other parents and teachers...at least, that's what happened with us :lol:

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Hi wysiwig,
AT the school DD will be going to , you have to prove you are a resident of the area every year and they don't guarantee enrollment if you are not a resident.

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So is that you have to prove you are a resident every year to retain your position at the school - so you can start there and then if move away even a little bit you might not be able to go back the next year??

Its' difficult to pick high schools based on location now - as things can change and somewhere that is 'good' may not be 'good' in 5-6 years time (though your 'great' ones such as Glen Waverley etc should maintain that 'reputation'). Also people within an area are often more negative about a school then people a little out of the area as they hear more negative stories. I can't imagine how difficult this is for you! Just keep asking and asking and you'll start to build up a little mental map of suburbs/schools and whether schools are good or not.

Another idea is to make the acquaintance or ask teachers that are in the areas you are looking at - I know that in primary school the schools are in networks and the teachers seem to know a bit about schools in that network and I have used that information to hear about schools that are not 'great'.

Yes wysiwyg, states on the website for box hill high that people may be asked to move from the school if they move house but I think it is mainly to deter people from renting short term just to get in and then moving. Don't know how many schools do this.
With the rising cost of housing and private schooling I guess people will try anything to get in.

Apparently, McKinnon is a highly sort after high school.

Thanks for all the ideas. Any tips on how you find out what its like to live in an area without living in / knowing anyone in that area?

We would rent first in whatever area and rent out this place just to see how like it, but it would be in 3-4 few years anyway I think. (I read an article today - from May when DD turns 5 our flat will be officially classed as overcrowded, and that is when we don't have any overseas visitors :-) - that doesn't change my mind about our plans but thought was interesting that the age used for opposite sex children to share was less than 5)

Interesting about McKinnon as I wondered what options were for people on Sandringham line, I quite like West but we are better off due to DH's work and sports etc being on the side of town where train lines go into Richmond area in addition to knowing more people this side of town - I want to have some areas that I can try find info about, so that when the time comes I already know our options.

I suppose this thing about picking up information during primary school if stay here is in part what worries me - as I know that the % that attend public high schools is pretty low round here. I can't really work it out myself - if the % moving to the public high schools is so low where are all the children who go to the high school coming from? Hawthorn Secondary shut down and has become Auburn High School because the numbers had gone so low it wasn't sustainable - so has had to rebrand itself and bring in new programs to try and get people to go there instead of going to private schools. Several peoples view is that the public high schools here only get the 'dregs' that don't get to go to private school! That view doesn't bother me in itself (people are entitled to their own opinions :-)) is just I wonder how fair a view I am likely to get of the public system and in addition I am not sure will get much info about schools in different areas from school acquaintances here.

Maybe we will just have to go hang out in some areas on weekends to see what they are like.

Bentleigh/McKinnon/Ornond are great. If we could afford to buy there, we would. They're on the Frankston line. Hampton & Sandringham are also great. I don't know what the schools are like though.

I have been reading suburb reviews on Homely - maybe not that useful but some are funny.

Ah, wrote a long response and lost it. Darn.

Let me try again.

Ivanhoe? 20 mins from the city, in the Kew High zone, which is an awesome school. Can be pricey to buy into it but you can look around the surrounding suburbs and sometimes there are some bargains in Ivanhoe itself.

How about the Northcote/Merri/Thornbury area? Some great schools there and I think still some affordable areas.

Or, would you consider a bit further out? How about near me? I love this area. Schools are plentiful :D If you look a little closer to the city from me, Rosanna/Viewbank, you are in the Viewbank College zone, which is the school I want to get my kids into, but it is zoned and we are just out. We will try anyway. Rosanna is really nice.

Re your wondering about how fair a view you are getting of the public system from people in your area, I suspect they don't even consider public schools so you would not get an informed view. Fwiw I would love to be a "dreg" in camberwell and send my child to a local high school. LOL.
Re finding out what it is like to live in an area, just ask on here. There are heaps of Melbourne people who could give their opinion/experience.

Kylie Minogue went to Camberwell High. Make of that what you will :)

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Ah, wrote a long response and lost it. Darn.

Let me try again.

Ivanhoe? 20 mins from the city, in the Kew High zone, which is an awesome school. Can be pricey to buy into it but you can look around the surrounding suburbs and sometimes there are some bargains in Ivanhoe itself.

How about the Northcote/Merri/Thornbury area? Some great schools there and I think still some affordable areas.

Or, would you consider a bit further out? How about near me? I love this area. Schools are plentiful :D If you look a little closer to the city from me, Rosanna/Viewbank, you are in the Viewbank College zone, which is the school I want to get my kids into, but it is zoned and we are just out. We will try anyway. Rosanna is really nice.

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Northcote area seems good - good public transport, schools sound ok, houses of the right sort of size scale. (I am not really thinking price particularly as long as is not more expensive than Camberwell, as we may never buy another place but just rent anyway depending)

Ivanhoe area - just had a friend move that way but not really into the sort of housing we would want or ever be able to afford either. The area doesn't seem to be that walkable? Attractive, leafy etc but not very compact? Maybe there are other parts though.

We have one car, and is important to not go somewhere that would require two. I want the kids to be able to walk to school, or if at high school have a short public transport journey.

Rosanna - I think is a bit far out and is probably less walkable - have been using a site called walkscore to assess that part (not sure how good it is but currently seems to agree with my thoughts about the suburbs I know about, but it does depend where you live in a suburb too - but the less 'compact' ones have less options on the rail links).

Box Hill area I wouldn't rule out in the future - providing could get close to train station.

If either DH or I were likely to have long-term jobs not in the city, then I might think more about moving further out, but I don't want to move somewhere where we are looking at school days being school and after school care from 7:00 till 18:00. Currently daycare days are 7:30 to 17:30 and that makes everything rush enough and is only three days a week. If you can get a job that is CBD extension of train times past 20 mins or so is not so bad - but if you start having to tag on getting down St Kilda Road for example adds on an extra 20 mins. Would rather stay put and live in our 2 Bed forever - than consign us to lengthier commutes.

Northcote is great , I lived there for many years and would recommend it. Well serviced by train and tram and even walkable from city, definitely cycle able. Northcote high is also pretty good.

Brunswick, princes hill and UNI high are also zoned but good schools in the area. They do have specific catchment areas and are published on the websites.

I was going to suggest mackinnon as well. Apparently esp good for music. Sandringham high good for art (this is from working at a uni a few years ago so may have changed now!).

Northcote High. we lived down the road and we have heard fabulous stuff from there. has both train and tram and is within cooee of the city.

Will def keep an eye on Northcote - DH likes the idea of Northcote - because he thinks Batman park sounds cool :-) Lots of Batman stuff around Melbourne, maybe I should investigate all areas with places/streets named Batman!!

I grew up in that area- my parents still live there.
Nothing to do with schools- but batman park is COOL!