Composite classes

Dd1 is in a k/1 composite, she's in the year 1 part.
(My background is teaching)
So.. Given the children she has been placed with from year 1 (all but 3 have severe learning difficulties), and that the kindy kids who are joining the class are all boys who have issues (according to the teacher), I'm worried about dd1 learning.
Last year she constantly scored high in everything, reports were great, shes a fast learner, but reserved socially, but she has a great friend base.
There are 3 kids in her class from las year, two of which bullied her at the end of last year, and one who just didn't like her.
I know they say that composite classes aren't graded, but they are because they have to know that the children in those classes are able to handle it, etc.
I'm not happy with her being in this class, I'm pretty annoyed that she has been placed in this class, I'm worried that her learning will suffer.
What do you all think? Can anyone put my mind at ease? Should I talk to the school (and be one of the how ever many parents whinge at the school)? Or deal with it?
Fwiw, dd1 has always been pretty talkative and happy at school, today she didn't have much to say, that very unlike her.

i would talk to the school. If you are not happy (and i would have concerns too), request that she be moved rooms.

I would have concerns too, it doesn't sound like it's a class where she is going to have much of a chance to learn.

I'd be questioning that combo of kids, why so many in one class with issues?

This may be daft, or I may be missing something, but how do they have an entire class bar 3 who all have severe learning difficulties? And why are they all grouped together in a single class? That in itself seems strange to me... so I suspect I missing something!

If you are concerned, I would speak up and ask that she be moved. Has she herself voiced any issues to you about the class she is in?

Olive, my DD's schools puts the kids with 'issues' in the one grade so they share aides. This year she is in a composite and there are two aides and the teacher full time.

The other thing is that composite classes are the way of the future. There is a real shift towards them within the education system. Most of the classes in my DD's schools are now composites.

It could be that your DD is seen as an independent learner??

Thanks all
I kinda wish there was something missing and perhaps there is.
But when they read out names this morning, almost every child in that class was listed last year as having learning issues, and needing secondary help, like aides, extra help (can't remember the names of the classes they used).
Dh keeps saying that it's probable because she has been identified as an independent and reliable student, that she works well unsupervised etc, but I seriously doubt she could handle the length of time required that this class may require from her.

Tonight before bed we had a chat about school. She tells me that she doesn't like her new class because they are too loud and noisy and most don't want to do any work. When I asked her if she wanted me to talk to the school, she cried saying she didn't want me to make a fuss.
Now if she were in a composite (which I don't believe should be used in first year of schooling) that was designed because it aided the learning of child, and that was measured and designed around the child's needs then that would be awesome, but this one I am worried it will hinder her at such an early start to her education.

Definitely talk to the school and outline your concerns. They should be able to explain why she has been put in the class but if you are not happy and they don't agree to change her to another class, I would seriously consider moving her to another school.

So tricky - on one hand you don't want to get a rep as a painful parent, but on the other hand a year is a long time to be in an unworkable situation.

I always figure it's up to me to look out for the best interests of my child - no one else is going to care about them as much as I do. If that makes me unpopular, it makes me unpopular.

I think you are reading too much into this. You said you've got a background in teaching - does that mean you are a teacher? You should know that a lot of planning goes into selecting which child goes into each class - last year we had 3 staff meetings to sort it out and work out the dynamics of the year group coming through for this year and it was not an easy task working out who went into what class and how they get along with the other people in that class. I highly doubt that they are expecting your child to be an independent learner all the time or even much of the time, but I'm sure that it would have been worked out so that the combination of students worked well and they could make the most of the (limited) aide hours. Aside from their 'severe learning difficulties' is there anything actually wrong with these kids? Or do you just personally have some issue with your child being placed in a class with kids with severe learning difficulties? Do you think that today was an ideal way to measure how the entire year is going to pan out? It's the first day back at school and all kids are going to need an adjustment period. Of course she's not going to be terribly chatty if she feels she has no friends in her class, especially if she's got social issues. You bring this up like it's a composite class issue, but it sounds to me like you have a bigger issue with there being these other kids in the class. Composite classes are not, in my experience, graded. It usually comes down to numbers (where they can allocate teachers) and also the blends of kids and how they get along.

The way it works out is that they will try to spread the special needs kids across a learning stage - if you have 10 kids with high needs, then those 10 kids will be split across all the classes for that stage/year group. Last year at my school we had one stage 3 (yr 5 and 6) teacher with the most special needs kids because the teacher's background was in special needs ed. Then they split up the kids with behaviour problems (I had most of those) and then the other teacher had a mix of both. Maybe it's not ideal for your child, and by all means ask the teacher about it, but I bet they would have a very good reason why the classes were arranged as they were.

I don't have a problem with composite classes at all. I do understand how hard and time consuming putting classes together is. I do think that yes I am being over critical as it is first day of the year. That's why I asked the question. Dh is worried but can rationalise it in different ways. Mil who has been a teacher for decades has a different point of view to both me and dh.
My thinking so far has been this. Last year dd was bullied by several kids in her class. After months of talking with her teacher and getting it sorted, things started to get better. Her teacher said she was worried about who dd was friends with because she wanted to make sure she was put in with at least one friend. We had many hours of talks about this years class. Her report even made reference to her finally working out the friend thing.
My concern with this years class in reference to this is that he was placed with 2 children who were known to bully her. No friend in sight.
Now to address the learning difficulties, yes it's not overprotective parent being judgemental of other children's learning level. And to be honest I wouldn't be worried about that if it was a straight year class. Composite, though, I know is used to fast track those who are at a higher learning level, or can help those who are a little behind catch up whilst still doing the years work.
Yes it's early days, but honestly seeing those who are making up her class doesn't give me concern for her learning.
Yes she is overtired, yes she may be quiet, but honestly my daughter not talking about school and everything else means she's either about to throw up or she is seriously ill, sleep doesn't stop her though, she talks in her sleep about her day always.
I wanted to voice my concerns and work out my head space. I don't want to jump the gun and make noise out of nothing, but I needed to voice it, and hoped I could get some balance here.

I wouldn't be ok with it, unless I was very, very happy with the teacher.

I was in a composite class in grade 5 (a 4/5 class) where there were several high needs students (one student with no English, one student who was blind, some students with serious behavioural issues, etc).

Mum was unhappy with it, and the school basically took the attitude that I was smart, so "she'll be right" and they wouldn't move me to another class. They needed to keep the numbers there.

I had such a minimal amount of actual challenging work and progress that year, it was unbelievable. I was friends with the blind student and she taught me braille that year, and I'd read at my desk when I finished work, etc ... I learned how to play poker ... I wrote some stories ... the teacher decided I was a troublemaker - I was just completely bored.

It looked like I was going to be in basically the same class set up the following year, so my parents pulled me and my siblings from the school, and we all went to a different one. I had a bumpy start at the new one (due to the lack of structured education the previous year) but was able to catch up promptly enough.

But I wouldn't want the exercise repeated with my own kids if I had any real concerns.

I've seen composite classes work really well, and I've seen them work really badly. If I wasn't happy, and I had reason to be unhappy, I'd be pushing for my child to be moved into another class.

I don't have a problem with the composite either, it would be having all the kids with learning difficulties all together most of the attention will be on them rather than the rest of the class. With only a couple of kids without any high needs I can see it would be like pn described with them bring left to look after themselves.

The fact that your daughter has been placed with bullies and no friends is the biggest concern to me. I would absolutely bring it up and ask to have a meeting with the teacher. I'd just say you're concerned after all the discussions last year that she has been placed in a class with known bullies and no friends and you would love to hear more about the reasoning behind the decision to put her in that class. As that discussion unfolds I would then either be happy for her to stay or put your foot down that she really needs to move classes.

I would have a problem with her being placed with her known bullies. And I would make a fuss. Having been bullied myself but in a small school with no chance of changing classes simply because there was only one class, it made life difficult and not much fun. I really didn't like school at all at that point. If there was an option for me to change classes, my mum would have tried to make it happen.

I also was in composite classes from years 2 - 5 (1, 2 & 3 together & 4 & 5 together) and IMO, they don't work. I hated it. I was a quick learner and could work well on my own. So I pretty much always left on my own. Changing schools in yr 5 showed me just how behind I was and I was ahead of most of the class in my other school.

I don't think you are being silly at all. Talk to the school. It would be better to do it early. I know at DS's school they have said that there is a possibility that things might get changed around after 3 weeks depending on numbers, allocated staff and funding.

I don't think there is anything bad about composite classes, I think they can work quite well.

But you seem to have several concerns about the class placement, roughly along the lines of:
* Thinking that a higher-performing yr 1 should be in a straight yr1 or 1/2 composite, not in a k/1 composite (fair assumption IMO - however also consider that socially she may do better with younger not older kids)
* Concern that your DD hasn't been placed with any students that she socialises happily with - which is even more of an issue given that she has been socially reserved at times
* Concern that she has been placed with children with whom there was recent overt conflict over an extended period of time
* Concern that she has been placed in a class with a high ratio of children with extra need for teacher time/attention (and behavioural issues) and a suspicion that she has been placed in this group because she seems "quiet" and "good" and therefore may be overlooked
* Concern that that combination of two or more of any of the following things means that she is not in an optimal learning environment.
* Concern that her response coming home from school over the first few days indicates she is stressed and anxious already about this classroom

Look, without being judgey about the other children in the class, I think any combination of these concerns warrants a discussion with the school. In the past, my DD1 has been placed in classes with the (commonly known) "difficult" children, and we've found it's often a strength because those teachers are usually the ones with the most teaching experience and the really good kid-whispering skills, so there's a payoff. Some teachers have a magic knack of seeing a room full of individuals, and not a class, and if you've got one of those it wouldn't matter if half the class were aliens from the the planet Zorg, they would all still be actively included in the learning dynamic.

Also - my DD started grade 1 this week, and I noticed a lot the kids were not their usual happy selves. It's a big change leaving the classroom/teacher/grade that you know and starting all over again. We're really happy with our class placement and the teacher is a darling, and DD has still be out of sorts (and even wet the bed last night). So, part of your DD's withdrawnness might just be the stress of the transition. :hug:

BUT - if you're still concerned (and you may well be, just on the social aspect alone) you could ask for an appt with whoever (teachers,principle, deputy, junior school coordinator) is involved in the placement. It may be helpful in the first instance to ask the reasoning behind the current placement before you outline the specifics of your concerns, and be polite about it. Depending on their response, you might or might not decide to ask to have her moved. It's worth thinking in the longer term - these kids will still be in her peer cohort next year, and the year after that. Might it be better for her in the longer run to be in a class where there are more adult helpers on hand to learn how to interact with these kids in positive ways? Are there more tailored learning options as a result? But if you're going to talk to the school about it, do it now/soon - otherwise it'll be even more unsettling for your DD.

DD1 was in composite last year and I really worried she would fall behind (was a P/1) class, but it was the complete opposite. She thrived, had to make new friends as her P friends were in different rooms etc. This year she's in a 2/3 class and I couldn't be happier. Hate the teacher with a passion, but I've been told she's strict but good too.

If you're not happy, give it a few weeks then speak to the school, it's early days and things could be better then you think right now. I would bring up the bully concern now, however!

I agree with Trillian about the work that goes into classes...it's a minefield! Marydean also made excellent points about the teacher themselves having a huge impact on the class environment (and Peanutter illustrated the point perfectly with her story - obviously a poor teacher).

I'd give your daughter a while to settle into her new class, but I'd also speak to the school pronto with your concerns about the bullying and lack of friends to ask for their rationale behind their decision. Hopefully they put real thought into it and can explain exactly what went into making their choices, thus putting your mind at ease. You could also mention that the rationale behind their class decisions is something that every parent has a right to know, so therefore should've been communicated to parents clearly last year, saving a lot of worry and questions this year. If you are still concerned about how your daughter is settling in a few weeks, or if the bullying recurs, follow it up. I'm a huge fan of communication, so I'd see you as being a caring, interested parent rather than a pita!! I'd have loved a class full of parents like you. :)

Also, it may seem like 'all' the students with learning and behavioural difficulties are in the one class, but I'd suspect the other classes have their fair share of those students too.

And, as a pp said, 'final numbers' may still impact on class sizes and make up. Our classes were always provisional until day eight.

Apologies if this isn't clear as I'm up to my eyeballs in feeding/burping newborn and Lego criminals! :)1

I'm a painful parent. At the end of last year I discovered that a particular teacher was moving from PP to year 1 and I informed the school that under no circumstances was my child to be in her class. I'd rather be known as a painful parent but be acting in what I considered to be the best interests of my child, than a parent who just shuts up to get along.

Having said that, I would give your DD some time to settle in and then see if you need to ask for her to be moved. I would however voice my concerns to both her current teacher as well as the principal or deputy - that way they know what the issues are from the outset (the bullying and lack of placement with at least one friend being a huge one), but you are demonstrating that you are at least willing to go with their judgment at this point. Good luck.

We called the school this morning. But they said that they are overwhelmed with complaints so far, so to email them. We mentioned the bullying, that made them listen. But we have now sent an email, outlining our concerns especially about the bullying.
We know the bullying is back, we know it's started because we have noticed particular behaviour and side effects that were only present when there was bullying occurring.
As far as the composite part we have expressed our concerns that their reasoning behind placing her in that class is perhaps misguided and uninformed. (This comes after talking to her teacher from last year and her comments on the class placement procedure)

It shows that something has gone wrong with their planning if they are overwhelmed with complaints. I am glad they are listening about the bullying. Keep calling and emailing so they take action quickly, your poor dd shouldn't have to be in a class with them.

Oh good luck it all.

I agree that lots of thought goes into class planning, but I doubt that every single decision in a school of hundreds of students is made based in what is best for that particular student. Unfortunately that's the reality of dealing with large numbers of kids. So as parents it's our job to stand up for our kids if there is a problem.

Just an update: this week they split up the k/1 and 1/2 classes. Dd's class became a straight yr1. Only change in students was that more of the group that is known for bullying dd were put in that class!
Before they changed classes I talked to dd's teacher from last year, explained the situation and she agreed that dd's placement was not in her best interests.
Yesterday dd had a major breakdown at me, stating that I had no idea how bad school was for her this year with the kids, that was the first time she verbalised anything serious.
This morning I wrote the school a letter thanking them for looking out for my daughters safety and needs, yes it was full of sarcasm. Today the school had a meeting about dd, with her current teacher, last years teacher and future teacher. They all agreed that dd moving class was in her best interest, so tomorrow she starts in a new class that has two friends and no kids that are known to belong to the other group of kids.
I just wanted to add, that my I initial concerns were about the kids in the class, then I think it being a composite class with dd being in what I believed to be a negative environment with no friends and only kids that put her down.
When the composite class was split, it didn't make me feel any better, sure didn't help that they put more of that group in with her. Dd's behaviour and self esteem has hit rock bottom in this time.
I am now hoping that things will improve, that things can only go up x

Beansbeans just wanted to offer you lots of hugs. It must be very emotional as a mum to see your dd so upset.

I know i was heart broken when dd1 started school and no one wanted to play with her.

I cant imagine how you are feeling.
I hope the move helps with your dd and she starts enjoying school again.

X

Well done to you for looking out for your daughter with such resolve and huge kudos to your DD for being able to open up to you, be honest, and speak to her own needs. That is really, really awesome.

I am so glad they are taking note of this issue now and taking the right steps to resolve it, I hope that moving forward your little girl can really enjoy school and start feeling confident and happy there. xx

I'm glad that your DD was able to open up and voice her feelings, knowing you would hear and act, and that you persisted and were heard. Good job, mumma!

And good on the school for acting promptly, getting the right people together to figure out what would be best for her, and then implementing a plan!

I really hope that this makes a world of difference to your DD - not just because she is away from the bullies / composite class / with her friends, but also because she won't feel helpless - she has seen that raising concerns results in discussion, and - where appropriate - action.

Thank you :)

When school started she made me promise not to make a fuss, but honestly I can say tonight she is more than happy that things have changed. The school let us tell her what was happening, we thought that would be better for her. We haven't explained to her why she has changed classes, as much as these kids have been mean to her, I don't want to label them as something that will hopefully change. Her excitement this afternoon at changing classes, was incredible.

When it came to bullying with dd, she doesnt talk about it. Instead what happens is she gets physically ill (in every way possible), talks negatively about herself and us (her family), she uses words that are never used at home, and she lashes out physically then cries. Last year when this started we didn't understand what was happening to her. It took months to work out what was going on. We had her at the drs, making her have blood tests, allergy tests, we even talked about behavioural issues. In the end, dd mentioned something very small, but it made everything make sense. She didn't see what the kids were doing as wrong, she didn't get that it was not the right behaviour. We went to the teacher and had a meeting and made an action plan. As soon as it was implemented the symptoms that I just mentioned slowly stopped. This year, this started on the first day back at school, we gave it a couple of days before we realised that it wasn't coincidence.
Im now hoping that by this time next week, my normal dd is back to normal.

I hope so too :heartbeat:

I've been reading along, I'm so glad she is Changing classes and the school finally listened. I'm thrilled your DD is happy too :)