Arg here I am again lipstick nipples and all

You would have thought that feeding DD for 18 months and that the pain/latch issues we had at the start would make me a pro but DD2 is less than 48 hours old and I am back in painful old territory. I just cannot get her to latch correctly- she cannot open that little mouth wide enough or when she does she soon pulls away so that too little boob is in her mouth again. She does correctly latch - on outside appearance - part of the time but it only took 24 hours for my nipples to become so pink and sensitive that i cannot tell if it is incorrect latch pain or correct latch but overly sensitive nipples. She wants to feed all the time (obviously just colostrum at this stage- born 6:47 Sat morn) which I know is great but it hurts! and already I feel frustrated. i get a bit of lipstick nipple but a few midwives have said I have long nipples anyway? Or that my fair skin makes nursing hard for some. Or they just say keep reattaching until she is on properly but she gets so frustrated coming off and on (DD2) that she starts screaming and her hands go in her mouth before I can get my nip in. I know how to position her. Will get her checked for tongue tie etc. Just don't know what I am doing wrong... Again! I already have a little ridge of blisters. I had such a great birth experience this time I was praying for a similar BF experience but I feel so dissapointed!

Congrats on your new DD. Please get her checked for an upper lip tie. I had the same problems with DS not being able to latch but I stopped bf before it was discovered that he had a lip tie at 12 weeks and I really regret not knowing sooner as we could have had it corrected. If she does have a tongue or lip tie ikids in Freo are fantastic and use a laser to correct them.

Thanks Em, will do.

Congrats on your baby
Definitely get an LC to take a look at her mouth and tongue. It could well be that there's something there. If the midwives are telling you unhelpful things, then ignore them and find an IBCLC right away.
Also, how are you feeding her? If not already, you can try laid back nursing/breast crawl/ baby-led feeding (whatever you want to call it) to see if that helps. Recline in bed or a chair, support yourself comfortably with cushions etc and put her on your chest - skin to skin - and see how she goes.
When babies are upright they're working against their natural instincts, so being on their bellies, with gravity helping them along, they can sometimes get it right when they couldn't before.
Good luck!

Good advice madb I remember back my LC got me it feed in bed reclined and it was so much better especially as DD was a bit smaller.
I'm doing a bit of cringe thinking of that raw ouchiness that nipple damage is :(
Hugs

I'm BF my third baby, she is nine days old and seems to have the best latch of all my three. However, I still have very sore nipples at the start of a feed that fades over the first minute or so. I have been wondering if it just hurts for some people as I think her latch is great? That's no help really is it...

Patti, how would you rate the pain out of 5 (1 almost none, to 5 unbearable)?
If the pain fades after the initial latch, it often means that there is damage there which means the nipple hurts when it is first drawn into baby's mouth, but if the pain does not persist, then the latch is now ok and so it doesn't hurt during the feed. Probably - and I'm just guessing - you had one or two not quite right feeds at the start where a little damage was done and this is why you are feeling that initial pain.
Some sensitivity is normal, so maybe 1 or 2 on the pain scale, but more than that - like proper pain - means something is not right. The most common reason is damage caused by baby not latching quite right. If you're still experiencing problems, I would also suggest the reclining breastfeed to see if that helps.

Thanks MadB, I'd say you are right and it's been a couple of bad feeds through the night, when I'm less inclined to reattach her if it's a little uncomfortable. The pain is probably around a 3.. I'll try to recline more :)

Thanks everyone. I did try some baby led attachment today, felt heaps better but still dull pain. Maybe a 2-2.5 using your scale MadB. The hardest part of BLA for me is popping her on and supporting her neck etc without rigidly guiding her. Should I pop her roughly below the nipple I want her on so she can tilt her chin up and take it in/scramble up? Or put her nearer the middle of my chest and let her smooch across?

MadB also I know you are in WA - can you recommend a Perth LC that would do a home visit? I know the hospital (SJOG Subiaco) have their own contractors but interested in someone independent too.

I can't wait to go home! I hate being away from hubby and DD1 at night, it is so clinical and isolating/ed here.

Hugs. It's horrible pain. Get some Rite Aid hydrogel breast discs. Awesome for healing. In NSW available in Coles but not Woolies

I have some- thanks for reminding me surprised! Forgot I had them packed!

Ouch! I feel your pain LL I had similar issues with DD2, lipstick shaped & white patches from blanching. I found a LC really helped with attachment but I also took DD2 to a chiropractor (family member, very much trusted) who gently worked on her jaw, neck, shoulder & collar bone to help loosen off the muscles which really improved how wide she could open her mouth. I just regret that I waited 2 weeks to take her as the crack in my right nipple is still healing & DD2 is nearly 5 weeks old :(
My supply was affected by lack of proper stimulation so it's important to get your gorgeous little girl on properly :)

Where are you in Perth? I know a few out in east/hills area, and a few others elsewhere in Perth.

You can check on
Lactation Consultants Of Australia And New Zealand | LCANZ
or breastfeeding help perth|college of lactation consultants|lactation wa|lactation perth western australia

I'm pretty central - top end of Northbridge, border of North Perth area.

Joy Anderson is great, she's in the Freo area.
I think Cathy Garbin might be in your neck of the woods

Or just try any of the LCs on those pages. Some only service specific areas, but some will go further.

First of all YAY congratulations I've obviously missed the BA!(shall go hunt for it now ;))

I know the feeling I was so disappointed I had pain with dd2 as well. I ended up putting it down to the nipples being sensitive again because after day 10 the pain practically went away an now she feeds no worries and no pain.

I ended up being religious with lasinoh(sp?) after a feed and I found it helped because they didn't dry out and crack as much.

Hopefully it is just a "reminder" stage for your nipples too.

Joy Anderson!! She doesn't do home visits, but will do Skype/email consults. Definitely worth the trip over this way to visit (and you could even pop in to see me on the way ;)!)

BTW, I call it Mentos nipple after the ad, but I love 'lipstick nipple'!

Baby led attachment and feeding semi reclined seem to be helping. There is pain on attachment but it dies down on feeding though there is still a dull sting- but it does not feel like bad latch pain if that makes sense, but rather, sore nipple pain. The paed will check during her discharge tomorrow for tongue tie just in case.

Today was virtually pain free feeding! Blisters are healing, almost gone. A couple of initial attachment stings but overall great. I think my milk coming in helped actually as DD2 had more liquid to draw in and I knew my colostrum was transitioning as she suddenly started taking bigger more noticeable gulps and working her jaws harder so she was less inclined to delicately 'nibble' if that makes sense.

Oh this is wonderful news!

YAY for our sweet, smart babies finding their way and helping us with BF! I remember finding it such a relief to let my DD2 just do her thang (after all the boob mashing tactics of DD1 lol).

*goes off to check BA*....totally missed it!

Are you two still doing ok, Ladylove?

I am! Right side can be a bit tricky still as in I still sometimes have to help her reattach properly but I have so much milk at the moment and my right side seems to get particularly tight and full so it is harder for her to latch and also the milk pretty much starts flowing the moment she is near my nipple so it can all get a bit slippery too.

So glad. Sounds like you're doing a super job!

I'm so glad it's sorting itself out :)

How is it all going now with two?

A bit craycray little o! DD not coping fantastically but is ok. Breaks my heart to see her looking so vulnerable. DD2 is much more settled than DD was as a newborn which helps heaps but she wants to feed all the time - she is big on the cluster and 20 minute later booby top up feeds - so I can't avoid holding her all the time which I know is hard on DD who keeps trying to climb all over me.

It's hard in the early days feeding all the time. Can you get dd to help or play near you?

Yes we read stories or if I'm feeding near bedtime DD has her own milk or a small cup of breastmilk if I've pumped. Otherwise I feed near where she is playing or invite her to bring whatever she is doing to where I am. Today DD was really good - she stroked DD2's head (her own initiation) and noted how soft her hair was, and she came running up with a dummy whenever DD2 cried which was a lot today as she was quite unsettled.

Do you use a sling at all to feed on the go?

Onthefly - No I don't, i've been looking into carriers but was a bit overwhelmed by the options!

DD2 has been a bit windy/uncomfortable because I have either too much milk still or very fast flow. She is only 18 days old. My boobs look and feel like they are settling now but DD2 still gags and sputters during feeds and gets ansty afterwards unless being held so I'm beginning to think some sort of carrier is a good idea.