Lucy's 3 under 3 parenting debrief.......

OK, deep breath!

I have decided to start this up, as over the past 3 weeks, since Lexie was born, some days have been great, other days have been vile. So I want to start getting it "down on paper", so that I can possibly see what works for me and for my babies, and what isn't working, or what triggers potential meltdowns!!

Olivia is the one, at two and a half, who causes the meltdowns, to be honest. She is in the terrible twos, and whilst I know she is pretty good in comparison to most, she still drives me mad a lot of the time. I feel like she is insecure but I go to every length to sepnd so much of our days reassurring her.

I know a lot of her behaviour is "normal" for a toddler, but I feel like she is constantly trying to test my patience/ test the boundries. The problem is the way I react I guess.

She is totally rebelling against a lunchtime nap most days. And is giving us loads of grief over meal times. She has always been a great eater, and is now just having a field day of "naughtyness" at every meal time.

I also know that because I am tired, I probably react less calmly than I should, so no doubt she is reacting to that too.

Charlie at 14 months is a constant........he is too young to be bothered by a new baby in the house, and appears to not even notice Lexie! Although, as he gets a little older, and Lexie is more active, I can see trouble ahead. His sleep and eating are both perfect at the moment, long may that last!! Although the poor lamb has just started to walk, and I feel like I am "too busy" to make a fuss of him like he deserves.

Lexie, at 3 weeks, is sleeping and feeding round the clock......she feeds well, and usually goes 3 or 4 or 5 hours between feeds. I noticed today though, that she was a lot more alert after feeds, so she may be heading to that more awake stage........

Olivia is very very very affectionate with Lexie, thank goodness, and so feeding Lexie is easy as Olivia just sits next to us and chats and kisses and cuddles. It is cute.

I usually have to restrain Charlie in the high chair or his activity seat, as he is a bit too interested in climbing over me and not as gentle as he needs to be........I think he thinks Lexie is a doll to paly with............

Whew.... constant. WOW... sounds so full on. *hugs* not advice ;)

Thanks guys.
I should add:

DH: Is amazing and gets more amazing every day. He has stepped up BIG TIME with all the practical help and support he gives me.

Perry the Dog: still incontinent

Lucy you are a supermum!!!!

I am struggling at the moment just with 2 and feeling a little relieved we did not have a +ve POAS this month! We are having seperation issues with my 7 month old at the moment and the last hour before DH gets home is hell, so I can't imagine trying to stretch myself to one more!

All I can say is I take my hat off to you! You are amazing!!!!!!!

Well done Lucy, your an inspiration :D

LUCY, SUPERMUM it is, I want to see you in your suit? With ya undies on the outside hee hee
Seriously your a legend!

Lucy, Does Olivia need her lunchtime nap?
Just wondering if maybe she isnt interested coz she does really need the nap?
Do you have a nap or lay down & maybe she can lay down with you? Would she do that? Could she take a book to read & lay down on the couch with ablanket or something?
It might not be ideal for you, but if it gets her to rest atleast & you some time to take care of the others???
Your doing an amazing job & I guess its' alot for Olivia to take in too?

Perry on the other hand, pop a nappy on him???

Good Luck

I just think you are an absolute legend Lucy :) And I'm sorry, but when I read the bit about Perry the poor dog, I actually laughed.
Its all the little things like weeing dogs that build up and cause the melt downs too. Well done on brilliant hubby. I'm hoping I have one of these too - time will tell ;) And of course I'd actually have to marry him, which aint really on the agenda.

Anyway - Its great that Charlie isn't too interested in Lexie yet, the longer he gets used to her before noticing may be a good thing?
Does Olivia have anyone her age or older to play with? Are you able to set up a play date with a respnonsible friend that would look after her? Something like that once a week might be really nice for her.

Keep slogging away with it, you truly are an inspiration!

Oh guys, thank you for being so kind.....I have a few tears in my eyes now. I don't feel like an inspiration to anyone, I just feel knackered to be honest, but I do know that I am doing my very best for this babies of mine......

In terms of Olivia's sleeps at lunchtimes.......I haev thought & thought about this at so much length. I have read every toddler sleep book, even ones I know I won't "approve of" IYKWIM, in the hope that it can give me some ideas.

Certainly some days she doesn't need the sleep. But on other days (ie today!!) she will fall alseep in the car as early as 11am,s o I know that for about 50% of the week she DOES need one. Certainly if she doesn't have at least "rest time" she is FERAL by 5pm, and incredibly whingey. (She talks as well as a 5 year old, but jeeeez, can she put a WHINE in her voice when she is tired.......drives me batty!!)

One thing that all the books say is that change in family circumstances brings on sleep issues, relating to security, so my main aim is to keep her topped up with Mummy time. I am happy to sepnd as much time with her as she needs, as I can, cos Charlie is so independant and Lexie is always alseep!

Although, and tell me your thoughts on this, I am in a quandry. One day last week, she threw a really really bad tanty.......and hit Charlie, and I was so furious with her I took her for time out in her room (at about midday) and shut the door on her. (Usually we keep it open for her). Anyway, the tanty continued but becasue I was SO mad at her, I decided, for once, to leave her to it, so that we both would calm down. ANyway, I left her for around 5 mins, then it went quiet. So I went to check on her and to have the "I'm sorry" convo (and to check she wasn't doing something evil like ripping pages out of a book or something!!) and she was FAST asleep in her bed..................

I told DH about it and he suggested we shut the door on her every time. But I am such a softy, it doesn't "sit" right with me, IYKWIM? But if it works? (We do close the door on our way to bed at night, so she can't night wander too much......this also, thinking about it, seems to stop the night wakings.......?)

We don't have a TV in our room, and Lexie is in our room, so I am trying to avoid letting her use our room. I have tried to let her watch TV on the couch, but she just continues to play and then gets really foul and grizzly by about 3pm.........

Either way, I shall persevere. Just getting it out helps to be honest.........

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when I read the bit about Perry the poor dog, I actually laughed.

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......Fi, I don't blame you......he makes me laugh too, despite the piddles......little bugger.....he is not even old......only 8 years old and as fit as a fiddle.......just BONE IDLE!!! Through the day he quite cheerfully wanders round the block & pees outside. And he is happy to go outside at night if he gets a sniff of a possum or a koala. But then decides to pee in the kitchen on the way back???????????? LOL.....

Little note on Perry... is he desexed? If not sometimes their prostates can get enlarged as they get older & that can put pressure on his sphincter & make him incontenent. Even desexed male dogs can have issues with their prostates but its heaps more common in undesexed male dogs. Just throwing that out there for you ;)

Otherwise... the door issue. For us it is a matter of Matilda going to sleep in under 30 minutes or 2 hours. If the door is open it takes us hours to get her to bed. If its closed she will complain but go to sleep quicker. So we leave it open and she has 2 tries if she comes out of her room or leaves the bed she gets those tries & then the door closes. Thats it. But then again we've always had to be tough on our sleeping issues...

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So we leave it open and she has 2 tries if she comes out of her room or leaves the bed she gets those tries & then the door closes

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Kind of like 2 strikes and you're IN! LOL.

That is such a good idea......Christy, thank you.....I may try that tonight and see how we go. I can explain it to her as well. (Because at the moment I can't think of a way of making her underatand that if we close the door it is for her OWN good and that we are not cross? The other day the air con sucked her door shut and she was BESIDE herself thinking I was cross with her........it was heartbreaking........)

Christy, the Perry thing....he is desexed. But based on your knowledge I may bite the bullet and take him to the vet......he is due some vacs soon anyway, so I may get a general check up done and ask about the prostrate. Is there anything that can be done to fix it? It would save me the mop and bucket every morning, for sure!!

I think the treatment varies hugely depending on what is going on, some dogs that aren't desexed that have enlarged prostates all it takes is desexing them... but sometimes its meds as well or a series of injections. It just depends on what happens when the vet sticks their fingers up his bum ;) Maybe encourage them to take him out of the room for a prostate check...hehehehe.

Lucy, even though Lindsay was just over three when Paige came along, there were still the same issues.

Re Olivia's sleeping during the day. Paige isn't that much younger than Olivia and she has the one afternoon sleep anytime from 1.30pm onwards. she normally sleeps on the lounge, but if she mucks around too much I put her in her room. But because you already put Olivia in her room, I would choose your method of either leaving the door open or closed depending on her mood. Like if she happily goes in there to sleep, leave it open, but if she fights it, close it over, then she will start to understand that 'right, Mum's not going to take it anymore' kwim? It's all about choosing your battles.

I think Charlie is just that bit too little to both worry about Lexie, or to understand why he can't jump all over you. By the time he is old enough to bother with her, then Lexie will also be that bit older and will be doing more and have longer wake periods.

With the mealtimes, are you using the star chart for treats if she eats her meal by a certain time frame? Even if she sits and eats something, that is worth rewarding, because it is all about the bigger picture even if it takes baby steps to get there. We often have trouble with Erin not eating her meals and Paige just being Paige and getting up from the table and mucking around, so we use treats as a reward for good mealtime behaviour and stand firm on them if they don't. There have often been times where Lindsay will get dessert and the girls won't, which proves to them that we aren't pushovers on the subject.

Overall Paige just fitted in nicely with our family, and there wree only a few times where things would get hairy, like co ordinating bathtimes and feedtimes etc. but it does all work out in the end and before long you find that you have fallen into a nice little pattern of doing things.

You are doing a fab job so far - it will only get better and easier.

Thanks Sherie: I Really appreciate it...knowing you have "been there done that" and survivied gives me a lot of hope!!

I kind of know it will all work out eventually......I just need to get through the next few months!

In terms of meal times, I am so scared of turning into my Mother.....(long story) in relation to food....I have tended to be really lenient and relaxed over mealtimes, and it has worked till now, and I try SO hard to not make mealtimes a battle. The reward chart thing......I have it all lined up ready to go....

It doesn't help that Andrew let Olivia have laods of treats and snacks whilst I was in hospital.......there are a lot left in the pantry.....I may just chuck them out, so neither of us can "give in" to her and give her junk, that way hopefully she wil get back on track with proper meals.....

Lucy, When Maddy was 2 I moved out of my parents & into our own place, it was a smal 1 bedroom bungalow & Maddy had the bedroom all set up for her & I slept in the lounge on a fold out couch!
We needed to be just the 2 of us instead of having Mum, Dad & I parenting her!

If she got grumpy or wouldnt listen I'd ask her to go sit on her bed quietly & think about what I was saying, telling, asking her, I would ask if she could close the door behind her & she would & within 5 mins she'd be asleep!
I knew she was onky arguing coz she was tired & after a few weeks she'd wander into her room close the door & I'd peek & she'd have put herself to bed!
She knew I wasnt too grumpy coz I had let her close the door herself....

I know you'll get there & with meals times I make sure we all sit down together for dinner & not til you have finished (or had as much as you want) & put your own dishes away are you allowed to leave the table....

Maddy sometimes will say she doesnt like it & I ask her to try it & funnily enough she'll polish it off, if she still says yuck, I make her eat whatever else there is...
She told me she'd never eat Cous Cous & then tried it & told it's like Green Eggs & Ham & she did like it!!!

I dont make her sit there & eat stuff she doesnt like,m as long as she has tried it, I am Ok with that, but I will still offer it again in a few days time! Thankfully she loves veggies & isnt actually big on meat!?

We have always shut the door on Jenna. Otherwise she just wont go to sleep.
It will be interesting to see what we do in summer when she needs the cool of the air con through there. Hmmmm.
At night we open the door so she can get out of the room if she needs to, but there is still another door that she can't get through.
We have to shut all the doors otherwise my cat would get in and chew all the fabric in her room.

Fi we open the door after she's gone to sleep in the summer to let the air flow through ;)

OLIVIA WENT TO BED LIKE A CHARM TONIGHT.....(I reckion she reads my posts and knows I am on a mission, LOL!)

The door is shut. I told her that it was to keep her safe from mosquitos.....

She called out for about 2 mins, but I was outside the door and she didn't even get out of bed (I always know when she hops out of beds because the floor boards are creaky!)

PLUS........a GF of mine sent me the details of an Adelaide GP blokey who has some "tough love" advice on food.........and I tried it this afternoon....she ate a big bowl of spag bol, no probs.........

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Basic Principles

· The problems with food are almost never about food.
· The problem is about power
· The child's view is that they are in charge and not mum. This is normal human behaviour.
· Clearly mum is the only person with the knowledge and wisdom to be in charge not the child.
· From this moment mum is in charge of nutrition.

Food principles

Think of feeding in three tiers. The first is breakfast lunch and tea. The second tier is morning tea and afternoon tea. The third is snack eg a chocolate biscuit.

When there is a feeding problem with the child then IMMEDIATELY move to basic feeding i.e. breakfast lunch and tea AND NOTHING BETWEEN. These three meals must be successful for the mother before moving on.

How can a child demonstrate "failure" at meal time.
A child can fail in any of these ways.
1. Will not eat the range of food.
2. Will not eat the volume that is appropriate.
3. The behaviour pattern is not appropriate eg spitting, throwing food, requiring distraction, leaving the table multiple times, etc
4. The time taken is prolonged eg beyond 30 minutes.

The Plan

Begin at breakfast on the first day.

Note that at all meals that solids are given before liquids. Liquids and dessert are only available after success with the main course solids
Present a meal for breakfast which is what YOU believe to be adequate and appropriate feeding at that time. You present the meal and the child then has two choices. Eat the meal or not. To fail at the meal can occur in one of four ways as mentioned above. If the child "fails" then do not become involved in a dispute. Remain calm and in charge. The meal has not been a success and thus clear it away. The KEY NOW IS THAT THERE IS NOTHING TO EAT OR DRINK UNTIL THE NEXT MEAL. There is no water, milk, juice, apple, orange, biscuits or anything. Ignore the 1000 requests for "just a drink". This is most important.

At lunch time (lunch may be an hour early today) deliver a normal, balanced, diet which you think is appropriate for the child at that age. The child then has two choices. If the child fails again then there is no food or DRINK until tea time.

Once a meal is presented and the child eats the main solids well then the parent can give desert and/or drinks.

This program usually works quickly i.e. a couple of days. Failure is rare. Remember it takes weeks to starve. Make hunger and thirst your allies

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I am not sure if I like his "tone" but I had nothing to lose, so we skipped afternoon tea, I showed her that we had NO SNACKS in the house at all, diverted a few "I wanna bisuit" tantrums by playing with her in her paddling pool with her for 2 hours.......and she ate like a piglet!!

Feel about 200% better than I did this time last night.............

YAY Fantastic Lucy!!!

BTW We have had HUGE issues with food over the past few months as well. Matilda went 2 months eating only a handful of dinners. We applied some of those strategies about (maybe a bit more "gentle") and now she eats 6 out of 7 dinners!

That is good to hear Christy.......the above is a bit full on for me too......I cannot refuse a drink of water FFS!

Olivia slept all through the night, no night wanderings at all.......I kept the door shut till about 5am (after I got up after feeding Lexie) and Olivia came out at 6am on the dot....(roll on daylight savings pleae, LOL!).......a very happy girl this morning.

And Lexie slept from 6.30 pm to 4am...............so I feel like a new woman this morning!!

I'm sure I thought I wrote it, but I didn't.... Christy - we open the door after she has gone to sleep too. But there is another sliding door that we dont open into the main living area for noise reasons. The airflow comes into her room from the other part of the house. All very complicated!

Lucy - tough love sounds like good advice, but like you say - how can you tell a kid they can't have a glass of water!! Sounds lie success for you though! Well done!
And I hear you on daylight savings - even if the respite is only a month or so, I'm looking forward to a little bit of dark (and not so many birds squawking) first thing in the morning!!

YAY Lucy!!! That's Awesome what a tremendous Family you have!!!

No water seems too cruel... OOOh yay for Olivia being safe from Mozzies too!!!!

I agree with the water - I think it's always important to have that available!

In principle however, I agree with the thing about holding out the food until the next meal time - it's not as if it's days away after all, just a few hours IYKWIM? We've done this with Jacob too and if he still doesn't eat or mucks with the food, then we take it away with minimal fuss on our part and just play the waiting game again and try not to give in to requests for inappropriate things like biscuits! We figure that if he doesn't eat at his mealtime, then he clearly isn't hungry. Some days I swear he lives on fresh air!!

Had a good weekend. It always helps simply to have 2 pairs of hands,a nd DH is amazing.

Charlie was a bit scratchy....he has just started childcare on a Friday (from about 9.30am to 4pm) and it REALLY tired him out and we all "pay" for it on a Saturday. But Dh was doing loads of "chores" with Olivia so Charlie and Lexie and I were all able to spend some time just playing on the floor without Olivia "taking over" so it got him a bit mroe familiar with Lexie and I managed to get the comcept of "gentle" over to him, I think/hope.

Olivia was on great form.....I think she gets bored at home just with me, but with Daddy she is really stimulated (they did "building" and she "helped him" replace our deck steps) and so much less grizzly and whiney.

Her sleeps have improved heaps just in a few days, just by virtue of the fact that we have been shutting the door and really watching her food intake.

Lexie is great......still just sleeping and eating. Although she had a very awke period from 4pm to 9pm last night......so we just had her in the sitting room with us and she hung off the boob for hours and finally crashed at 9pm...........(3 week growth spurt perhaps? Dunno..)

Photo of Olivia booby feeding Lexie!

Awwwwww Lucy that picture is just gorgeous!!!

yay on having a wonderful weekend!!!!

It is Shannon. He has just started walking too, so I am missing some of his cuddles.

He is a great little boy in as much as he very rarely gets grizzly and doesn't whine or usually show tired-signs etc, so I know for a fact that childcare is the problem, in as much as he only sleeps for 40 mins at lunchtime there, and becasue he is so cheery and placid for the rest of the afternoon they don't pop him down again. Then he crashes happily at night with us but always needs more sleep on the Saturday......or 2 sleeps......poor wee man.........

Lucy that was exactly what Matilda was like at childcare early on. They wouldn't pop her down for sleeps because she wasn't "looking" tired and then was so overstimulated when she came home she would crash & struggle the next day. Soon enough we started putting her to sleep earlier for her night sleeps & she was much better the next day.

Is Andrew back at work Lucy?

Yep Mel, he went back a week last Tuesday........he no longer works for Optus and although he loves the new job, they are not anywhere near as generous with paternity leave..........but to be honest, whilst he is brilliant and helpful, I kind of was relieved to have to "go it alone" sooner rather than later as that is what I need to get a handle on, IYKWIM?

Yeah for sure Lucy. I think you are absolutely amazing - you seem to be handling everything so incredibly well. I don't know how you do it! I wish I was handling things half as well!

Thanks Mel. To be honest, I just lurch from hour to hour in the hope we all survive! For me, when I was still pg and crapping myself over how I would cope, I realised that, for me, it is simply mind over matter.

I forced myself to realise that MILLIONS of women, with a lot less than me (emotioanlly adn materially) have coped with more than one baby, and they all survive, so surely I must be able to as well.

In terms of coping with the meltdowns, I'll be honest too, In-Liven has been worth its weight in gold.......physically I feel great, but more importantly at this stage, it really helps me stay calm and cheerful.

I know that for me so much of this motherhood malarky is mind over matter......what is that quote by Henry Ford?

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Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're right !

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......it works for me.

Mel, you will get there, I promise.