Bec's debrief

I'm not sure whether this is the right place but if I keep it all bottled up I think I am going to do myself an injury.
Eliza is a child that I suppose has been spoilt and let get her own way for awhile and now we are approaching the trying 2's it has escalated so much.
She is fine when she is with children we see often but go thru patches where she may bite but then we have no trouble , she is alittle delayed with her speech and all the childcare workers keep on telling me it is a frustration stage when she can communicate she wont bite.

Today was the end of my threshold we often go to story time at the local library and she has a push and pull scene she does. She grabbed a poor child and scared the life out of her, I'm not sure whether she does this at daycare but has biten atleast one child every time she goes.
DH and I have a good relationship there is never any pushing or grabbing so I'm not sure where it is coming from..although we can have an argument rarely.
Eliza has great receptive vocab following instructions so getting her to understand is not the problem it is finding a way to teach her right or wrong.
I'm frustrated and sick to death of hearing all the solutions like "bite her back" yeah that is not going to happen or "one day she will grab the wrong kid" well I would like to stop it before she gets clobbered.
I feel like I have done a bad job and she isnt 2 yet it is so depressing...I have decided I dont want to go and play with other kids anymore, I'm sick of all the other parents having perfect kids.

Awww HUGS Bec.
For starters, no one has a perfect child! If anyone thinks they do, they're kidding themselves.
I agree... biting her back is not a solution.
You are not doing a bad job at all! I think the childcare workers are spot on. It's Eliza's way of venting her frustrations. Total PITA and embarrassment for you, I can imagine.
I wish I had a constructive solution for you or a suggestion at all but I too have issues with Gab's social interactions. She's hardly one to share and is actually quite bossy and aweful to other kids.
Not having her around other children wouldn't help tho... at least I don't think. It's all part of socialisation... but it's hard when they're actually injuring other kids.

Thanks Deb,
I just went and got the bin and had a howl, its just so hard when your child is the one to watch out for.
I sometimes think Nick plays too rough with her she loves it and if I told him to tone it down...I can't even imagine the response as she is his child too.
Bec

Bec you are doing a fantastic job. I agree with the others that the biting is her way of venting her frustrations. When Matilda was that age (not long ago...) she would throw massive tantrums to the point where she would hold her breath & pass out, or throw herself into a wall... real physical battles. DH & I get frustrated and we may growl from time to time, but there is no physical outworking of frustration from us. Matilda goes to family day care & the other children were often in the line of fire when she wasn't getting her own way & wasn't being "understood" I felt awful everytime she bullied another child. She did grow out of it. And she did behave better towards other children. She still has tantrums & even bit me the other day... BUT its a rarity now & I know she's just pushing boundaries every once in a while.

And like Shannon said, I have never had a problem with rougher kids or Matilda being rough because the parents have always dealt with it (or I have had too) immediately.

:

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IMO, I have never had a problem with the rougher kids who do things like bite or pull hair - IF the parents deal with it immediately and appropriately. That doesn't mean that I want little Johnny torn a new one in front of me, but if I can see that the parent is trying to teach the child right from wrong instead of ignoring or blaming the victim

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Totally agree with you there, Shannon.

Bec... if Eliza ever bights Gabby (not that they ever get a chance to play together anymore), I won't be upset :) Gawd only knows what Gab would do back! LOL

Huge HUGS again!

Bec - you know that generally speaking Jenna and Eliza play beautifully together. They share, sit with each other, giggle and have a lovely time. Sure they have occasional spits with each other, but its so rare these days that I really do think they have gotten used to each other so well.

I was talking to Shane about story time this morning, and how both the girls were beastly, and I said to him that I dont understand where Eliza gets this roughness from that I generally dont see at all when its just Jenna and Eliza. We both sort of agree that its daycare, but then how can anyone know unless they are there.
I dont think its daycares "fault" so much as the fact she is being immersed into a room with lots of other kiddies, and she is developing socially a lot quicker than what Jenna is.

Jenna is still fascinated by other kids, she doesn't feel insecure by them, therefore she doesn't have a go. Whereas Eliza is sharing with children like these on a regular basis, she's in their play zone, and the kids are changing all the time, they are different ages, and there isn't the supervision like there is when you and are having a playdate.
2 on 2 is a pretty good supervision level.

You aren't a crappy parent, and of course its nothing to do with how you and Nick and play with her. Look how rough Shane is with Jenna - and she bloody loves it! Eliza probably loves her dad being rough with her.

She isn't spoiled, and she is a typical 2yo trying you every step of the way. In a years time you more than likely wont have a problem anymore, and I reckon the more supervised social time you have with Eliza, the better you will both get at figuring it out.

Please dont stop playing with other kids. You know Eliza has a ball with Jenna, and sure there have been a few "incidents" but its nothing that worries me or Shane at all. If jenna sticks her fingers in a kids mouth, she deserves to be bitten ;)

That woman today was a cow. She has been giving me the evils for the last 3 weeks like I can't control my child, yet today she had the sooky child who was being a sap. I reckon it might have been because it was her last story time - I reckon she is off to kinder/school next year, so she was all sad about it. Good riddance - hopefully she wont be around next year to glare at me cause at 40w pregnant I can't make my 20mo child sit down and listen to a boring book. She was a cow....

Big hugs to you. You are a great mum, and you are doing a wonderful job with Eliza, she is a really top toddler - well as far as toddlers go. Most of the time we would all like to give them away.

Bec - wasn't Eliza biting before childcare?

OOo by the same token... I'm just curious as to when the biting started... no having a go at you or Fi, Shan :)
I just remember Bec having troubles with the biting long before Eliza started in childcare, that's all ;)

From what I remember Eliza was biting Bec only before daycare, not other children. And if she did bite it was when she was teething??
Even the biting kids thing I think only happens when she is teething, and I think she is getting the 2yo molars at the moment.

I think Bec is more worried about the pushing thing at the moment.
It was pretty hard today. I could see that Bec was getting frustrated, the two girls were being funny to a point, but the stories just dont interest them at all. And Jenna was being such a trollop there really wasn't much (anything) I could do to help.

I personally think even the pushing to a degree is a form of frustration in communication at that age. I know now when Matilda pushes or does something to another child that I consider mean or rude, I pull her aside & tell her that what she did wasn't nice and she could hurt that person's feelings and even make them have an owie. I ask her to say sorry & if she doesn't I tell her that she has to have a time out. When time out is finished (there is ALWAYS a time out with my girl) she is given the same option, say sorry or time out. She has asked for another time out twice but by the third go is willing to go say sorry.

This isn't really about the other children, but about teaching Matilda how to behave in an acceptable way & learn that biting or pushing isn't acceptable.

Thanks girls,
I suppose the hardest part of it is that for the majority of it Eliza is a good girl but put in a position with all new and different kids she gets agressive therefore giving parents the overall picture that she is a menace.
Eliza has been biting for a while lol and yes when Jenna likes to point out different objects she thinks it is an opportunity.
Being in a difficult position as she has changed daycare ( 1 day a week is all she does) and put with 18 months to 3 so alot of the tots are nuturing mothers in the making and she doesnt like her space to be intruded lol abit like her mum. Nick usually picks her up from care so the odd times I do she is playing nicely or absorbed in an activity.
I had a good talk to Nick tonight and MIL was here (primary school principal). She made sence in what she said...to pick our big battles like the pushing and grabbing and biting as our priority issues.
My daughter really isnt a bad child.
Thanks Girls, Im still alittle upset but I suppose...tomorrow is another day.
Bec
Shannon I'm sure a talking toddler is over rated ;)

Awww Bec you haven't done a bad job and I'm yet to see a perfect kid.

My son used to be the one that made me leave places becasue of his behaviour. Actually with Joel not alot's changed. LOL. There were times that I felt I couldn't even be bothered in taking him out because I knew he'd play up. Then I fiugred if I didn't just go I'd never leave the place and that he had to learn how to behave in public. It happened eventually. But Joel is a different child altogether to Eliza.

I am also agreeing that the biting might have something to do with daycare. Only in the fact that in daycare she has to be able to stand up for herself, she needs to be assertive or she get's left behind. Tehya is a very assertive little girl and I am dreading how this will change when she starts daycare next year. In Tehya's case she has to be assertive to get what she wants from Noah. Noah has to do it with the big boys, although he is more of a sooky la la to get his way.

Assertive is a great way to be, as our girls get older, I think just learning to deal with it as toddlers is that hardest part. I think trying to teach or explain to them that biting, hitting or pushing isn't the way to get what they want is the first battle. Tehya doesn't bite, she likes to pull Noah's hair. I think they do what get's a reaction. Bites work fantastic for that, they bloody hurt.

Try to see Eliza for all the sweet and good things she does. As hard as it can be try to ignore her bad behaviour and reward the good things she does. Now I don't mean turn a blind eye to the biting and pushing, of course that still needs dealing with but when she is being a good girl praise her for it.

She is such a pretty and cute little girl, looks like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth hey :)

And your right, kids hat can talk can be very over rated. I don't how many times I tell them to stop talking for a while for some peace ;)

Bec - it doesn't matter what other parents think. Only what you guys think.
And if you are treating the pushing etc seriously like you are, noone can have a go at you anyway.
I get annoyed with parents who let their kids get away with this stuff. You are certainly not one of those people.

Bec - I second what Fi said.... and Eliza is not a bad child. She is amazing, gorgeous and wonderful. Like you said, she likes her own space. At this age, our children are very egocentric and don't really "play" together in the classical sense. They can play alongside each other but kids don't generally play nicely together until well into Primary School age.
Like the others have said, she's just being assertive...whether it be at childcare or other places where there are lots of children.
Other parents are probably happy that you follow up on Eliza's behaviour and that you're not just brushing it off.... you're doing all you can (and you're doing a great job at that).

Its funny how a good night sleep can make you see things in a different light. When I dropped her at Daycare this morning the head girl in her room pulled me aside and said quietly.. see that little girl over there she is one Eliza is biting and really if someone was in my face that much I would want to lash out. The girl is 2.5 and been told you can play but dont get so close ( in her face) so I feel better she isnt randomly biting kids she sees. Now the pushing but I think I can work that out with alot of hard work.
I will keep you all posted thanks again mmmwah
Bec

Awww well there you go! Eliza's just standing up for herself. Good on her!
When Gab has older kids in her face like that (3yo's don't really know how to keep a nice distance), she gets aggressive too. You can't blame them tho, hey?
Well done for the head girl pulling you aside to reassure you!
Pushing is normal, normal, normal. She'll figure out that it's not the right thing to do :)

lol yup Nick said to me would you rather have the quiet reserved child that wont play with other kids or the ring leader lol cause we have a ring leader.I was trying to add that she tends to play with boys at daycare older boys lol so she has to hold her ground there. Maybe a few lessons on ettiquette

Exactly!! Have you read my debrief? In there I have had some amazing support for Matilda's behaviour & one thing that I absolutely cling too is something a few said... Matilda will never be a follower, she will always stand up for herself & her personality is one that will determine the direction, rather than follow the path. She is a "spirited princess". Thats what we call her now. When people ask me if I have a "good girl" (for goodness sake why even ask???) I say I have an amazing "spirited princess". They usually want me to explain, but I won't. Especially if Matilda is in earshot.

Thanks Christy I just read your debrief, Matilda is a special spirited girl.
Bec

Great that you are feeling a tad better today Bec :) Anytime you need a slap around the ears and a reminder that Eliza is a very, very special little girl, you let me know :D I'd be happy to oblige.
At the end of the day none of our children are perfect. There are always things you would love to swap about them, but we just have to live with the knowledge that you can't change them.
And yes - that means I can't stop my child throwing things when I say no, and then banging her head on the ground...... More red marks on her forehead today!

I've been in a similar situation to you Bec, in that I worry that other people have perfect children, and there's Jacob throwing a monumental tanty. I ask myself "where did we go wrong?"

It's not until a day or two after the event that I realise that we haven't done anything wrong as parents - we always put our children's needs first and try to set the right example. What Jacob does is simply what a lot of toddlers do - I remind myself of this a lot (of course I still have meltdowns!)

There's been many a time when I'd have Jacob at playgroup and he'd throw a wobbly - throw himself down on the hard floor, kick, scream, hit me, bang his head on the ground - all the while others were playing happily, not making a fuss, and I'd have other parents staring at Jacob and I and whispering amongst themselves. It was awful. Personally if another child is throwing a tantrum where we are, I just ignore it - much better for all involved I think.

Jacob also had issues with communicating and was a bit on the later side to start talking, so a lot of his tantrums at that point, stemmed from not being able to communicate effectively, and from us misinterpreting whatever other signals he was trying to give us. In the end he started walking over to his stroller and sitting in it - that was his cue that he'd had enough and wanted to go home!

It was a whole new world once he started talking.

Now we still have tantrums, but it's because he's pushing boundaries and wanting things he can't have. Those kind of tantrums I am much more tolerant of because I know what they are about. Sure some of them might be a bit peculiar (perhaps I rubbed a moon we had drawn, off the blackboard when I shouldn't have done LOL) but at the end of the day, I do know what they are about and we can problem solve and negotiate.

The other thing too I found, is finding an activity that is suitable for Jacob. I found that playgroup just wasn't his bag at all - he's so physically active that he needed something more than playgroup where they sit and do playdough, painting (he dislikes having his hands dirty and freaks out with paint LOL) etc. So now he goes to Kindergym instead and what do you know - a lot less tanties! Sure we have them because he doesn't want to get off the trampoline or something, but overall, he enjoys Kindergym IMMENSELY and it's much more appropriate for him. Do you think it's possible that sometimes Eliza isn't enjoying where she is or what she's doing??

Jacob's latest trick is that he is refusing to say please. Instead, he will pat you gently on the head/face/shoulder/leg, give you a big kiss and cuddle whilst smiling ever so sweetly, thinking that that alone will suffice. So he's being 'nicely' defiant. Very clever little boy - but it ain't workin'!!

Chin up Bec - you're a great Mum and Eliza sounds like a special little sausage who is asserting her very unique personality.

Thanks for replying Shannon and Melinda

Shannon: Eliza is very fluent in her own special language she has great expression in her voice. I totally agree with the milestones being met at different times and when they are 10 I'm sure I would struggle picking the first walkers and talkers in a classroom and deep down I know it BUT as time ticks away and words still are hard to come by I know that appointment with the MCHN is looming in the picture where I fight for acceptance that she will get it and doesnt need to see a specialist.
I find it difficult too that Eliza is a special child in so many ways that people presume that she was so hard to concieve and carry that they often think that I will let her get away with alot of things that I dont, maybe the issues of having failures of pregnancys maybe stem to feeling a failure when Eliza is peforming to the normal percentage of kids.
Guee but is a whole other kettle of fish.
Melinda I havent forgotton will be back child is awake
Bec

UPDATE:
Eliza has been to see the speech pathologist that has diagnosed her with "developmental delay" but only speech. She exhibits no signs of any intellectal disabilities or autism. And with the the few tools the speechie gave us we are making progress. Daycare has turned the corner she enjoys going and I enjoy picking her up as there is usually no incident reports to sign (biting). They even told me what a joy she is to have there something months ago they would internally sigh when they saw her coming into the room.
My little girl is saying yes please and up please...things that she couldnt do....dont get me wrong she is still delayed but is making progress and that makes for a happy mummy.
Shannon...hows Jess going with daycare?
Bec

Aww Bec, you must be so happy with Eliza's progress. Sounds like she is going fantastic.

YAY for you Eliza, what a clever little girl you are :D

Bec that sounds great :) Good for Eliza!!

ive read most of the post Bec from what i can gather you are doing eveything in your power so dont feel to bad. I have a now 3 year old DD we have a large family in saying this becouse of kaos we would talk for not to say this if what you have done but as a result DD wouldnt talk just grunt and scream yell and cry you can understand my frustration then she would bite not just any one just her older sister 17months older if she could nt get her point through she would bite for what ever reason we never really new but i think it was to defend her self against her older sister we never would bite back i would ask her would she like it if i bite her with my big teeth i would show her she would say no then i would explain why not to do it blah blah then time out it was a long process but it has worked i would make her kiss and cuddle her sister a say sorry it takes time make her use her big girl words i hope this helps
kath