brachial plexus palsy or erb's palsy?

Hi,
when my daughter Emelia (2 months) was born her shoulders became stuck and i had to have an episiotomy as she was 9 pound 4 oz and she had brachial plexus palsy or erbs palsy which is where the nerves in the shoulders are damaged simply because the baby is too big to make it through the birth canal. she has feeling in her arm and can lift it a little but she can not bend her elbow or lift toward her mouth or over her head...they say most cases it will spontenously start working properly if not they can do surgery and this must be done between 3 to 6 months old. this could have been prevented if i had been induced earlier, but my doctor said no everything will be fine she isnt that big. but i cant turn back time and im very happy and consider myself very lucky to have a happy healthy baby...i was just wondering if anyone else has had a bub with this and if they got full use of there arm again?

Hi Blanchie

I don't have a child with this condition, but I am a paediatric nurse and have seen a few children that I care for with this palsy. It most often self resolves (at least it has in every case that I have seen), but paediatric neurologists and orthopaedists are VERY talented and will be able to answer any questions you may have.

Sorry, not too much information really, but HTH

hi princess kylie
we are hoping it heals itself, Emelia is going back to Princess Margaret Hospital in march and that is when we find out if she will need surgery she is almost 3 months and her arm his getting more and more movement every week, i have to do exercises everyday and they seem to be helping so im hoping this is a good sign it will eventually work normally without surgery, its great to hear all the cases you have worked with have all got full fuction of the arm. thankyou for replying

Tho i don't have a child with this condition, i do have Erbs palsy myself due to my being born naturally and also getting stuck. I was a 10lb 11 oz baby and was born with a broken collarbone and a dislocated shoulder as well as the nerve damage. Unfortunately for me, medical science wasn't as advanced 40 years ago as it is now, and apart from my parents taking me to a chiropractor at 6 weeks of age for several months of extensive treatment, i regained the use of my left arm to a certain extent. I have the typical limp looking arm, slightly shorter than the other, unable to raise it to the full extent,and unable to turn my wrist over. Tho through my life i have found some things difficult, such as Gymnastics, Ball games and Athletics at school, i learn't to swim and managed several other sports. Through out my life my arm has hindered my from some activities, some days even styling my hair gives me shocking cramps in it, but most things i have accomplished and it has gone unnoticed by the general public. I have never had a problem in any of my jobs. I have had to have physio every several years to loosen up knotted muscles, but am proud to say that the last x-rays on it 6 months ago showed no signs of arthritis yet.
In this day and age, with medical technology as advanced as it is, I'm sure your daughter will recover the full use of her arm without any worries.

Hi Blanchie

My daughter was also born with a brachial plexus injury so I can understand a lot of what you must be going through. We also go to PMH for treatment. Danielles right arm was completely paralysed when she was born and she also couldn't open her right eye. Thankfully her eye healed completely. Her arm healed very slowly, she could lift her arm to nearly shoulder height and could use her fingers. She still couldn't use her bicep or wrist. When she was 8 months they did the nerve graft surgery. Now she can use her bicep and she is still slowly improving.
I more than happy to answer any questions. Hopefully Emelia will heal on her own

hi Captain

great to hear Dannielles is improving still, how has she gone with like crawling, walking etc?

had an appointment today went well physio said improving more..doc said that doesnt look like she will need Nerve reconstruction, maybe later down the track she will need operation on her shoulder :( not sure he will see how she is next month..

Hi Blanchie

Glad your appointment went well and that Emelia doesn't have to have the nerve grafts. What kind of shoulder surgery are they talking about?

Danielle started to do a commando crawl at about 7 months. She pulled with her left arm and pushed with her right leg. She did that for about a month until she has her surgery. After that she used a bottom shuffle. She started walking at about 15 months. It took a while for her to learn to stand because it was hard to pull herself up. But she keeps up well with the other kids.

We are heading in for an appointment next month so hopefully we'll know more about what to expect next.

the doctor didnt go into to much about the shoulder surgery cos he said he will wait till she's over 6 months to look at that is she needs...so dont know really know wats involved in that..we go back next month again.

was danielle a big baby when she was born?

Danielle was 3.9kg, I think thats about 8'10. She was three weeks early. She wasn't huge but she has very broad shoulders. (Got that from her dad.)

We're going into PMH on the 20th, we haven't been for a few months but I'm sure they'll say we just need to keep waiting to see if she improves anymore.

What kind of movement does Emelia have now?

what doctor do u see we see dr page, i feel everytime we go there he doesnt really say much pretty much says see u again in a month.

she can lift her arm up so she can chew her hand when sitting up and reaches out to things, laying down she can lift a little bit over her head and reaches things on her playmat that hang down..physio says good that improving everytime. its a waiting game, just gotta keep doing her excersisers..did u have to do any with danielle?

We used to see dr Allison, but Dr Page was always there. They both did the surgery on Danielle. Dr Allison retired at the end of last year so this will be our first appointment with Dr Page. We were told the same thing with the waiting game until she was six months and then the surgery was planned. Since the surgery we've gone back to waiting. It can be very frustrating sometimes.

We've had to do physio since Danielle was born. We only go every couple of months now cause I pretty much know all the exercises.

It sounds like Emelia is doing really well!:D She has far more movement than Danielle did at the same age. Can she use her bicep?

yeah on one of our visits the physio said that her biceps and triceps are very strong.

i sometimes find dr page very distracted i know he must have alot on his mind but whens hes explaing something it will take him a while to spit it out!!! i find that very frustrating.

I know what you mean. I feel like I have to ask so many questions just to find out what is going on.

Which physio do you see? We see Cheng.

My hubby, Luca, and I were talking about organizing a picnic or something for all the kids with OBI's that go to PMH. Do you think people would be interested in going?

yeah we see cheng, shes great!

picnic sounds great, im in, im sure other ppl would love the idea too. would be great to catch up. :D

Great! I'll organise a date. We see Cheng in a couple of weeks so I'll talk to her and see if she can pass the details on to other parents. She was the one who started the idea of a picnic.

How does Emelia sleep? I remember Danielle at that age and she always had trouble sleeping. We think because she had pain or pins and needles through her arm.

ok cool, yeah we go 27th this month...im sure heaps of ppl will love to go!

Emelia is a good sleeper since 3 weeks she has sleep through, last few weeks she would wake through the night..but last 3 nights all through again so hoping it stays like that i feel like a complete different person ive had good sleep!!!

talk again soon

Big achievement today. I put some cheese in Danielle's right hand and encouraged her to put the cheese in her mouth. She nearly got her hand to her mouth!!!!:clap: This is the best she has ever done. Gives me hope that she will be able to do it as she gets stronger.

oh thats great news..yay Danielle:D cant wait to meet u both. i remember when emelia first started lifting her arm i was almost in tears!!! it does give ya hope though doesnt it, oh wonderful news :dance:

do u have msn?

I don't know. I'm not very computer literate, I only know the basic stuff.:(

ok it probably is on ur computer !! just thought might be easier to chat on there than in this thread!!

Just asked DH. He had a look but said we have to set it up properly first. But it would be a lot easier. I'll let you know when it's set up. For now I have to go to bed cause I start work at 7 tomorrow.:(

Talk to you later.

ok cool

oh u poor thing where do u work? i thought everything was closed for good friday

I've set up my msn. Did you get my message?

Poor Danielle's been having a rough day. Whenever she gets some more movement in her arm she also seems to get a lot of pain. At least that's what I think it is, because she can't tell me. She was crying and grabbing at her arm. I gave her some panadol and it seemed to help. I wish there was more I could do for her.

Hi,
My lil boys name is Cody and he is 6 months old (was born 19/9/07). 3 weeks ago he had a nerve graph to fix his shoulder. He was 9lb 2 born and was a forseps delivery. His left shoulder got stuck during the delivery and the doctor basically just yanked him out and damaged his shoulder. We were told his arm would be normal in 6 weeks. At 4 months he could only just move his elbow when laying down but still had no shoulder movement. Upon agreeing to his surgery we were led to believe it was a pretty common surgery but none of the nurses looking after him had seen a surgery like this. The surgeon took a nerve out of each calf and placed them in his ahoulder. The surgery took 6 hours and when we saw Cody for the first time after surgery in the ICU he looked in so much pain. 3 weeks on and Cody still has no movement. the surgery doesnt garuantee Cody will get full movement back and we will have to wait 6-12 months to see just what movement he will get. No parents should have to go through this. Surely there is some way to prevent this from happening. Does anyone no what can or could have been done to prevent this from happening again? :cry:

Hi Alisha
Sorry that you have to be going through this. It is so hard having to watch the poor little ones going through such a difficult surgery. It's sounds like the same surgery that DD had. Don't panic yet if Cody doesn't haven't any movement. DD didn't have her arm out of the sling for 4 weeks. She took another couple of months just to get back to where she was before the surgery. It's been nearly 2 years now and we are still seeing improvements.
As for what we can do to stop it, I really think it comes down to awareness. It seems there are many Dr's who just don't know how to handle shoulder dystocia.
Keep us updated on how Cody's going and I'm here if you need to chat.

1st off hello,

I know this is an old thread but had to post.

I have 3 kids none of them have erb's palsy...........but I do.

I was born in 1975 and had shoulder dystocia, which turned into erb's. I have total feeling in my arm but do not have full rotation.

I guess for me being born so long ago there was no surgery for me, I just wore the brace as a child. By the time I had enquired about trying to fix it in my teens was too late. The dr's said it was possible but the recovery would have been years and I woulda been in massive pain so not worth it.

I just felt the need to post as somebody who has it but grew up with it.
I'm up to chat if anyone has questions.

Hi Aylilth

Thanks for posting, I've never really spoken to anyone who grew up with Erb's. I guess my biggest question is, does your arm ever cause you pain? It's hard because sometimes Danielle mentions pain, but then can't elaborate so I don't know how she is feeling. If it does cause pain, what helps?

Thanks for sharing ur story Aylilth, i guess my only question is when u were growing up did ur arm effect u playing sports?

Hi Tenille, hope ur all well :)

1st off very sorry it's taken me so long to reply:redface: My hubby did something with our ISP and we were w/o for a bit there:doh:

@Captain it does cause me mild pain from time to time, mostly when trying to put my hair back. Tho I have noticed recently sometimes I will get just a spasm pain. I also haven't had anything "done" with my arm as well. Just the brace when I was born and nothing since.

@*EmJa it did affect some sports, like vollyball never tried tennis. I grew up in Canada and I did play Ice Hockey w/o and difficulties infact I was on a 'AA' team;) I also did play baseball as well, had no prob's riding a bike.

Basicly I guess I have adapted with the cards I was delt with as there are always ways around it if you are determined. I will add tho because for 30+years of overcompansating with my left arm there have been minor difficulties. My left arm has carpel tunnel but this was caused by a job I had with repetive motions all the time, tho I guess I prob would have happened eventually

If there is anything else lemme know......if u wanna chat on msn or email it's buzanko@hotmail just add somethinmg so I know who it is. Cheers:D

There was a story in Woman's Day April 20, 2009 edition on a young girl with Erb's palsy. It sounds like she has had a rough time, and had to have operations later, but might give you some ideas of what can be done if you have ongoing issues.

Hi

Sorry to drag an old thread up yet again, but I have just found this.

My son has Erbs Pasly as a result of shoulder dystocia. He is currently 10 months old and at 5 months had surgery to repair 4 damaged nerves. He had the surgery at RCH Melbourne.

We have seen great recovery, although now the other arm is displaying the palsy position, which is concerning

He has a very long way to go, and every time I see the older kids there for the clinic I get a pang of saddness, as I worry thats going to be us in 10 years time

Hope to be able to chat to a few other mums whos kiddies have this condition

Hi Musolissa

Your definately welcome to chat. I've always found it really helpful to chat with other mums who are going through this. I was just thinking that next week it will be 3 years since Danielle had her nerve graft surgery. I still get pangs of sadness about how the whole thing will affect her, but it has certainly gotten easier. It is amazing how well Danielle has learnt to adapt, and so many people don't even realize there is an injury.

I'll be here if you have any questions.

Hello. This is an old thread i know... but its the only place i can find info on this topic. My son has a bracheal plexus injury affecting both arms. (cant lift up or out) Im told it can not be repaired with surgery and will not improve with time. I would love to hear from others who have been through this. We are in Perth.

Hi Jaybee
Sorry to hear you're going through this. How old is your son? I'm in Perth too, are you going through PMH? It can be hard to find a lot of info and it can be hard to get answers from the doctors. Ask away with questions and I'll help where I can.

My best friend has erbs palsy. Similar thing she was too big to fit through the birth canal.
Her right arm is littler than the other one and a bit deformed. She can move her whole arm up and down but can't lift it over her head or straighten it.

She lives a normal life with it though and has learnt ways to do her etc, make up, paint her nails etc.
She also was a swimmer at the paraolympic in sydney.
She has had heaps of ops and grafts etc on her arm. She often says, if they'd (her parents) just left it and didn't worry about the operations it would have been better as now she has more problems with her back and shoulders where they operated.

Wahoo...this thread is still going :D

Captain- You are soooo right about getting answers from doctors! They are so vauge!! My son is 14 months old, ten months corrected. This is crazy but unlike most erbs palsy bubs who are generally either big or full term (from what i have read) My little guy was 690 grams... And he got stuck! Yep we go to PMH, we see Dr Page. I was/am devasted when told nothing at all can be done. (maybe ops in the future but thats just to relieve pressure on joints not fix nerves) I have made an appoint too see Dr Alison privatley just to get more info on all this.(am hoping he not so vauge??) Are there many other erbs children in Perth? Support groups etc? my email jwboyce@bigpond.com if you free to catch up let me know!
Thankyou Jennjorja for sharing about your friend, its positive to know she is carrying on as normal. I cant help but go through all the things in my head by son will not be able to do which i know is the wrong attitude... Guess this is all still very new.
We had always known something was wrong but only offically diagnosed last fri.... hence my crazy woman babble! (im still digesting all this)

If it's only just being diagnosed I image you have heaps to digest. There are no support groups as such in Perth. I was going to organise a get together, but it kind of fell through when I was pg with DD2 and I've lost contact with a lot of the mums. Dr Allison isn't much better than Page when it comes to answers. They both did the surgery on Danielle. He is good though, just make sure you take a list of your questions and keep asking. Are they saying no to the surgery because of his age? There are a few little ones around with erbs, but most heal quite well in the first year only a small percent have long term problems. I'm on a time limit atm (DH is waiting for me) but I will email you later and we can organise to meet up.

Hi Jaybee, sorry to hear ur going through this, its all abit overwhelming to deal with at first. i had never heard of erbs palsy till my DD was born. she is 2.5yrs now and is going really well now, we also see Dr Page, as Tenille said make sure u ask alot of questions cos he isnt a big talker!!

we r probably quiet lucky with DD as she hasnt had any surgery yet and at our last visit we were told if she keeps going the way she is now there will be no need for any surgery and we wont have to go back for any appts.

wishing u all the best and we are here if u need a chat :)

I guess if its something they have grown up with they don't know any different and will find ways to do things...as strange as they may look to use... :)

Hi all,
Firstly this is a great site, has been a really good source for info. My daughter suffered a shoulder dystocia birth on July 2nd, her partner and I were both present. It was her first child and what should have been a wonderful occassion turned into the scariest day for all of us. He was 4440g, and when he became stuck so too did his cord. When he was finally delivered it took 2mins to get his heart going and 15 mins before he breathed on his own. He was raced up to PMH and was kept cold (on ice) for 72 hours, to reduce the risk of brain damage. Pulling him out also ruptured C5,C6 and the suprascapular nerves in his neck leaving him with a paralysed arm, however he has hand and wrist movement.
At 3 months old he underwent 6 hours of nerve graft surgery taking the sural nerves from both calfs and grafting them to the ruptured nerves in his neck. 4 weeks on now and he has more shoulder movement and resistence, but still can't lift his arm or bend it. Really interested in knowing how other children that have had this surgery are doing now. He is such a happy and bright little man, and doing all the normal things bubs of his age do. Long story i know, however I feel the more we share, the more informed we are, the less alone we feel.