How do I get him to self-settle?

Okay. We're starting daycare in July and I'm really quite peturbed about DS sleeping. He is 7.5 months old. At the moment the only way to get to DS to sleep is to either feed him off to sleep or to sit on a fitball and bounce gently up and down (both options with the Music for Dreaming CD playing) till he shuts his eyes and goes to sleep.

The daycare centre has a fitball and they have said that they settle all the babies in accordance with how the parents settle them. This gives me some comfort but in any case the fitball thing can't go on forever and it is starting to drive DH and I mad. And DS is getting heavy!!!

My dearest wish - even more than getting him to sleep through the night - is to be able to pop him in his cot and say nighty-night and let him go to sleep all by himself. I am thinking the best way of doing this is to slowly wean him off the bouncing by trying to put him down not quite asleep, then drowsy, then slowly stop the bouncing, then turn the music volume lower and lower...etc etc.

Has anyone else had a similar situation? How long did it take to get your babies to self-settle? Can I hear your war stories please?

Chels used to be hard to get into bed.. was a feed and rocking to sleep. Now we do bath at 7pm, bottle, then bed round 8 (give or take). DH and i both go into her room, daddy hugs and kisses.. then me.. i put her in bed...start her music thingy, dummy, tuck her in and pat her head for a few seconds and tell her i love her and i will be back later...walk out.

She usualy cries for bout 5 mins, then goes to sleep. Will sleep til 7-8am....but of late we have a midnight wake up, but puts her self back to sleep or a hand off mum with a dummy, then sometimes a 4-5 am wake up, quick bottle and back in bed, again sleeps her self.

This is a toughie. I haven't any personal experience to share, but from what I hear if your baby needs help to get to sleep then getting rid of one thing will only mean exchanging it for another thing... Unless you are willing to teach your baby to sleep, meaning letting them cry somehow. I guess if they are able to self-settle, they'd just do it, kwim?
With DD, I found my arms were getting tired when I settled her in my arms, so I now do a combination of settling in my arms, then when she is pretty relaxed, putting her in her cot and firmly patting her bottom. I can tell by the noises she makes what I need to do (ie, if she is crying I need to hold her. If she is 'talking' or making softer noises I need to pat.)
I assume she can't go to sleep without my help because if I leave her alone she just cries. (And I'm not comfortable with leaving her to cry.)

ETA: Good luck, by the way! I hope you find something that works for you all.

I wish I knew the answer - I am beginning to think I will be helping get Rylee to sleep for the rest of her life - at the moment the only way I can get her to sleep is to walk around the house with her upright, head on my shoulder and singing "This old man, he played one, he played knick knack...." you know the song. I will be watching this post closely.

Laurin :)

Julesr - Its hard not to become obsessed with our bubs selfsettling. the theory goes that afer 6mths they should be able to do it but I think each baby is very differet and some will need eaxtra hep with sleep for quite a long time.The rocking and bouncing to sleep, however, would start to drive me mad as baby gets heavier so I defnitely understand your point.
I don't have a magic answer but I'd say you are on the right track with the gradual weaning idea. My DS has gone from needing to be BF to sleep whilst I lay with him for up to an hour (does become VERY draining and hurts when they start to bite!!) to now going off in the cot in a grobag with just me holding his hand (sometimes only takes 5mins).
Dummy has replaced breast and i did initially do a lot of patting/bodyrocking/shhhing and even rocking of the cot. Gradually have been doing less and less depending on how settled he seems. I never let him get upset and even now I am not that desperate for him to fall alseep without me there. i like sitting with him and watching him drift off but i could probably move further and further away.
Whoops he is awake now so will BBL to finish this post

Even as a tiny baby he wasn't good at falling asleep - he just seemed to be completely unable to "shut down" and he would fight and fight it. I'm basing this "weaning" theory on Pinky's book "Sleeping like a baby". She has a 4 week plan to wean off the feeding to sleep and I'm sorry to say it's not going well. She talks about introducing "sleepy words" and if we start talking to him he perks up! Therefore I'm trying to devise my own plan. He won't take a dummy - he thinks it is a toy and just wants to examine it.

The other reason I'm asking is because I'm holding DH off on CC. He wants to do CC and I don't. I will do almost anything to avoid this but I'm running out of stalling tactics.

You can try books like No cry sleep solution - Elizabeth Pantley and Save our sleep - Tizzie Hall. I'm going through this at the moment and fingers crossed it's going well. But do your research and figure out what you are prepared to do...Good luck,

jules, My Yasin didn't self-settle until he as almost 2. I just stuck with comforting him to sleep and eventually he was ready to put himself to sleep. First during the day and then at night.
Now he tells me when it's time for baa' and be' and after we read a few books he snuggles up with ted bear and quack quack and I say good night and leave the room.
It took a long time but it's worth it to me because I know he's secure and happy in his room at night.
I always read 3 books to him before sleep time and at least one of them is a favourite. I think that having a routine in place really helps him - on the nights that I've been unwise enough to skip part of the routine he's always had a harder time sleeping.

LOL BooBoo my DS loooooves Knick Knack Paddy Whack! I find that singing Silent Night will get him off to sleep if I don't have access to my magic CD. I am soooo sick of that carol...I even googled it to make sure I had all the words to all the verses so I wouldn't just have to sing the same verse over and over.

Magic, I actually have Tizzie's book but I must say I haven't really read it - just haven't got around to it. Tizzie has gotten a really bad wrap elsewhere on BB (I've read some old threads) and I therefore haven't rushed to read it but that's a bit of a weak excuse, I should make up my own mind.

We do have a routine going - we've had our rituals from day 1 and he always knows what's going on. As soon as I put him in his sleeping bag he will sook and kick his legs to try and stop us zipping it up because knows it's bedtime. I am happy to keep helping him to sleep for as long as it takes. I'm just really worried that the daycare centre won't be able to put in the effort of getting him off to sleep because they have other babies to deal with and I'm quite worried that DS either won't sleep at all or they will give up and let him cry himself off to sleep. Hence my wanting to try and speed up his ability to self-settle, if possible.

Jules

I am so with you on this, I did try the Save Our Sleep method, but it is very routine based and Rylee didn't fit in with the routines which resulted in alot of crying from both of us....so...then I read the Pinky McKay Book - Sleeping Like a Baby - which has been good ideas but it is just a matter of putting those ideas into practice which is alot easier said than done especially when you are sleep deprived. I know eventually Rylee will self settle, it is all a matter of timing I guess. I am with you on the CC - my DH keeps mentioning it as do a lot of other people and I have left her to cry on the odd occasion and it breaks my heart, does my head in and really doesn't work as she ends up more stressed than when she started....

Anyway, enough rambling, wishing you lots of luck and fingers crossed.
Laurin

Hello,
My son James will not self settle during the day, but seems to at night. He sleeps through most of the time at night. Probably because he is so exhausted from only sleeping approx 1 hour all day! People say I am so lucky to have an all night sleeper, but I am equally exhausted by the end on the day from having to entertain him. I an ideal world, he would BF to sleep, but I try not to let him. I am considering a sleep school, but I am scared that they will tell me I have to do the cry out method. It breaks my heart hearing him cry.

julesr- no advice here, except do in your heart what u think, you know ur bubba better than any book... i figure you can always read and such but in the end u will figure it out caz you're his mummy...
I hear ya on the bouncing on the fitball!!! i also have to do stairs!!! i call it the Eden diet regime LOL... Eden does not look even close to self settling - not that i expect her to- but like you said, she cannot completely shut down... very easily distracted, will use any excuse to stay awake...
I'll be watching this thread to see any ideas people give you.... I hope u come up with some ideas as CC will prolly be so hard for you if u dont want to do it...

I started Tizzie's routine (the Save our Sleep ones) about 10 days ago. So far, Nicholas has gone well, but still has had a couple of rough days. He has a dummy as was recommended by the GP and CHN due to his reflux (it's supposed to help), and every time it falls out, he cries for it again...quite exhausting! I dont like to leave him to cry either, but I have worked out what is crying and what is just 'protesting' and this means he will sometimes settle himself without too many dramas.

Nina did a very similar thing in the first 6 months as well. The only way she'd go to sleep is to fed, or rocked. The time it all changed for us, was when we introduced a sippy cup with EBM. She's a very independent baby, so when we introduced the sippy cup, she'd rather lay in her cot, hold her own bottle, then go to sleep, without us interfering.
Nina now knows the routine so well, that as soon as she sees me preparing the bottle, she starts rubbing her eyes as if to say 'ok, i'm tired now'!!
The daycare will (or should) work with you. And at the same time, they will try new things with him. If they think he'll go to sleep on his own, then they'll try it.

I must say that I am kind of hoping daycare with help with this - that he will get used to falling asleep in a different kind of environment and that it will help overall. I also figure they must have seen other babies that are difficult to settle and might have ideas!

I would be prepared to let him "protest" in his cot as opposed to cry. We did used to let him protest for a while but it would very quickly become distressed crying so we gave that up quite some time ago. I might give it another go.

He does like to sleep on his back, tightly tucked in. However in the last 2 days he has actually rolled over onto his side in his sleep so maybe I'll let him wriggle around for a while in his cot after putting him down and see what he does. He loves having a play in his cot and will stay in there for ages before eventually calling out for us.

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except do in your heart what u think, you know ur bubba better than any book... i figure you can always read and such but in the end u will figure it out caz you're his mummy...

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Good advice - when Yasin was a baby I must have read almost every book on baby care there was lol until Michelle (mooshie) reminded me that non-one had written a book about my baby. With Imran I was much more relaxed and prepared to listen to him not books.
That said, I think that books have thier place but the best approach is to take what you need from each book rather than trying to make your baby fit a one size fits all approach.
For me personally the books I found most useful were Dr Sears books and Pinky's books. You can find alot of Dr Sears stuff on his website.
I know that all childcare centers are differant but at Yasin's they try really hard to comfort children so they won't cry because it upsets the other children if one child is crying.
I would give you my honest opinion of Tizzie but as you may have noticed from previous threads she tends to pop up and threaten to sue any time our members express reservations about her methods :rolleyes: .

Here is a really good link I'm trying to follow now:
karitane

Its so tough... I have a day time cat napper and I'm exhausted. DS2 goes down ok, but only stays asleep for between 20 and 45 mins... But then every 3rd or 4th day he does 4 hours in a row :wall::wall:

Hope it all goes well for you, I know how your feeling Charly is BF to sleep most of the time. But she is learning to settle herself in the middle of the night, just depend on the type of cry. She doesn't sleep during the day much a quick 20 to 40 minutes after a feed or in the car. Lately she as been to eager to stay awake and play but all the tired signs are there, I have had to hold her a let her cry and sooth her she quickly goes to sleep withing 5-8 minutes the crying is just a whine... any longer and I don't thing I could do it. If I try and let DH do it she thinks it is play time.

I don't like to let her CC as I don't think she understand so would like you love to find an alternative way before I start back at work.

Moving to general baby discussion

Its a tough one but i think now he's over 6 months he will learn new sleep cues quickly. They are very clever at picking up new associations eg. spoon, food, not opening mouth. ;)

With Ella I did her sleep training early at 3months. She was a rocking singing patting bouncing baby. And she also had a wrap and a dummy. So sleep was a complex set of actions. I didnt want to do control crying so i slowly removed one thing at a time to reduce the impact and distress on her. I stopped singing and bouncing and just had patting & rocking for a few days. Then we would do it a little until she was drowsy and put her in her cot where she would cry and i'd pick her up and do it again and again...until she slept with just a little rock and pat. Eventually she needed less of that and she then associated sleep with the wrapping and dummy and a kiss and cuddle. (this took ohhh about 1 month).

Its not a quick solution but in the end i'm happier that we did that than a week of CC. :) But its up to you really. The important thing to remember is to start doing it when you notice their tired signs and I think what ever method you choose you have to really stick with it even if it feels like some days its not working...

Now we're slowly trying to get rid of the wrap. She's been wrapped with one arm out for the last few weeks and next week i'll have both arms out so she will slowly get use to it. Seems to be working fine so far :crossfingers:

Good luck!

Thanks luua - nice to know that the kind of approach I have in mind (slowly easing off on the bouncing and music etc) has actually worked for someone else.

Dach - yup, I read the Tizzie threads closely. On first flick through I wasn't keen on her approach so her book is sitting pristinely on the shelf. She did have a couple of points that I thought were worth consideration however eg making sure the baby is warm enough. My DS is a "hot" baby so I'm never quite sure when to increase his layers now that it's getting chillier down here in Melbourne.

When we bounce him he often kicks up a bit of a fuss - but we know that's just an "I don't wanna go to bed" whinge so I don't have a problem with that kind of protesting cry - it usually only takes 5 minutes to bounce him off to sleep (I know this because I can see the readout on the CD player LOL).

When I first had my DS I read quite a few books - I've never had much to do with babies and both mine and DH's family aren't in Melbourne so I was very much on my own. As time goes on I'm so much more comfortable with going with my instinct and those of you who said that I'm the only one who knows my baby are so right. He's my little individual, adorable scrap of humanity and mummy knows best!

I'm not sure leaving him in his cot to protest will actually work. He has a musical mobile and he knows how to turn it on. I can't bring myself to get rid of it because he loves it so much. I never know whether to laugh or not when I hear the mobile go on at 3.00am - it's like his room service bell!

When Jesse started getting heavy i would hold him and rock back and forth in his room with his music playing, in the dark. After that worked for a while, i started putting him in his cot just before he fell asleep in my arms so that he would fall asleep in the cot. After that worked for a while, id put him in the cot (all the time music playing) and stand in his room.. if he became unsettled id go over and pat him, until he fell asleep. Now i can just go and put him in bed, turn the music on and walk out. He sometimes talks and rolls around and whatever but will put himself to sleep within 10 minutes or so. I might have to go back in to put his dummy back in but i leave again. I havent had to rock him to sleep for about 4 months now. Works during the day now too.

Routines work - DS will go to sleep with his lullaby now, no matter where we are (car, pram...) well, unless it's bedtime. Then he fights it. But he's still asleep within a few minutes of jigging and singing. I have been putting him into his bed as soon as he closes his eyes now, then picking him up because he screams, then back down again, all singing his lullaby. He only needs one pick-up now! It's time-consuming to train this, but I want him to be put in his bed and have his lullaby until he goes to sleep (he has managed this at night twice) because he's big and my back hurts even without carrying him all night. Sometimes he does refuse to sleep and I have to just feed him to sleep, but that's rarer and rarer now. Other nights he just refuses to sleep at all, but that isn't that common.

But this is a baby who would never self-settle or go into his cot awake and just go to sleep. He can now wake up and close his eyes and go back to sleep during a nap! I am also able to cut down his lullaby from 5 minutes long to just 2 minutes long now, even better! (This has taken 6 weeks to do, but we had a nasty accident at 9w and a few routine changes during the course of this, like a change of lullabies and change of bathtime location.)

Yeah Ryn, I'm a big believer in routines. And you're right...what it boils down to is just a change in his routine.

I guess I've just been hoping that he would magically do it on his own - he managed to learn to settle himself back off to sleep instead of waking up every 40 minutes, and he can sometimes go back to sleep after waking up in the middle of the night. I hoped if we hung in there long enough he might take the next step by himself as well, but imminent daycare is now forcing the issue.

Now I just have to motivate myself to do this. Trouble is that it is so EASY to just bounce him or feed him off to sleep, only takes a few minutes and it's such a relief after the terrible times we had with getting him off to sleep when he was tiny, with his eczema and him being so badly affected by my diet that he couldn't settle (NO caffeine, NO chocolate, NO sugar etc). I really questioned whether routines would work but when I threw the routine out the window for a few days it got even worse. I'm so glad I persevered.

Time to find the mental fortitude to persevere again...

Thank you all for your input!