Desperately Seeking Advice - 9 wk bub

hello there
i am in desperate need of some help. my nine week old girl, Hollie, has stopped sleeping during the day unless I am holding her. She can be up from first thing in the morning and not have a sleep until late in the evening. I can see she is tired, well, over tired, but unless I am going to curl up on the couch with her and cuddle/hold her, she will not sleep.

She used to go down for naps and stay down, I would hold her until she slept and then put her down, if she woke up we would go again. Now I am having no luck whatsoever. I feel I have tried everything. I know about sleep cycles and have tried waiting til she is in a deep sleep, but still she wakes up. Tried putting her down awake and patting her, she cried for up to an hour and I gave up. I have been trying to follow a sleep, feed, play, then sleep routine but have also tried feeding her before her nap, offering a top up feed before, still no luck. I have even tried giving her a bottle of formula (am breast feeding), and still no luck. She isn't hungry, she just doesn't seem to want to sleep unless she is with mum.

The only time she goes down and stays down is last thing at night, she has her bath, then a feed, then will usually sleep for 4-5 hours. I have tried giving her a bath during the day too, to try to settle her but it doesnt seem to work. Have blacked out her windows so it is dark in her room too. We have a fisher price rocking swing thing, which can give me some relief for up to an hour, but other than that, I am left to either have an over tired baby that doesn't get enough sleep, or I have to hold her so she can get a good nap, which means I can't do anything and sometimes I won't have had a shower or anything to eat.

I have booked in to a Day Stay program in about two weeks, but until then, does anyone have any advice for me? I have tried everything my maternal child health nurse has suggested but still no luck. She (bubs) also seems to hate being in her pram too, and I can't seem to take her for a walk without her crying, as soon as mum picks her up she is okay.

Will this ever end?

*hugs* Emma it will end. Jovie went through unsettled days on end when I thought that was it. She wouldn't let me do anything.

My advice is hard to hear but throw out routines. Stop looking at what you "should" be doing and start doing what feels best. I would often have a sleep during the day with Jovie in bed next to me. I used a sling to be able to get washing up done and then didn't do much else but feed her and me the rest of the days. I closed my eyes to the washing and the floors and just tried to make it through the rough patches.

You are going really well... its very frustrating and tiring and hard to figure out why your baby isn't doing what they are supposed to be. But it passes after a while. And while those first 6 months feel like they will never stop, they do. And suddenly things get a bit easier. *hugs*

i am having the EXACT same problems!! Mason is perfect when my mum is around too..but she is working really long hours and already spends every spare second she can here. But never when i really need it :(

oops i was referring to mum as the third person so prob wasn't very clear, as in me, she only wants her mum - me, so it is becoming such a huge strain....

christy thanks that helps, i guess i am worried that by having a nap during the day with her and carrying her in a sling, i am somehow contributing to the problem by teaching her to only sleep when she is attached to me.... but at the same time i sort of think u have to do whatever it is u have to do at the time to get thru the day, and deal with any repurcussions at a later date if or when they arise....

its tough especially when the babies at my mums group just fall asleep on their own, I am in complete disbelief even though i see it in front of my very own eyes!

if i take her in bed with me i have to have her physically laying across my chest, like in a nursing position, she wont even sleep just next to me - is this weird?

Mason wont sleep next to me either, he must be held across my chest too

Sophia went through a similar stage when she was very young, she would only sleep if I held her or if she was lying next to me in bed. For a couple of months I simply sat comfortably reading a book or watching TV, or had a nap myself, or carried her in a sling. Then one day something made me try to put her down after she'd fallen asleep and she stayed! Over the next couple of weeks I slowly got her used to having all her sleeps alone. THat was a long time ago and she now has all her daytime sleeps on her own.

I think sometimes you just have to forget all the "rules" and advice and do what you have to do.

Just a thought from an inexperienced mum, if they only want to sleep across your chest, perhaps it is your heartbeat that soothes them. Have you tried one of the sleep cds that mimics the sounds in the womb?

huge hugs to you Emma! You are NOT alone. reading your post bought back so many memories. I agree with Christie throw out the routines and the advice from MCN and do whatever will work at the time. DS only used to sleep for 20 mins at a time during the day and that was never in bed it was either in his swing or being rocked in the stroller. As he had reflux i ended up hiring a hammock and he finally started sleeping again. When he was 9months he stopped sleeping day or night and i ended up having to walk him in the stroller for up to 1.5 hours to get him to sleep day and night then transfer him to his cot. As u have said doing this did get him into a bad habit but it worked at the time and we did end up teaching him to put himself to sleep. It feels like it will never ever end and u feel like a hopeless mum but your not we all go through it and at bubs first birthday you will look back and think how quickly the year has passed and how insignificant those sleepless weeks were.

Goodluck, you are Hollies mummy and only you know what is best for her, please don't worry about 'spoiling' her or teaching her bad habits, im sure she wont want you to rock her to sleep when she's 5 years old, it does end and you are doing a fantastic job, and you are doing all the right things xx

thanks guys, its amazing how much reading this helps. i have a 'sounds of the womb' teddy bear which goes off on movement or her cry, but it only plays for five minutes, i might have to try getting a cd, definitely.

actually hollie has a lot of the reflux symptoms and the doctor has given us zantac syrup, so i might start her on that and see if it makes any difference.... she does seem to be in discomfort alot of the times she is waking from her nap shortly after going down, and i think she likes being with me as if she stirs i will rub her back or pat her etc, so maybe it takes her mind of any discomfort associated with the reflux, well that is my theory anyway.

how old can the baby go in a hammock for? hmmm im wondering if she would like one. i just bought a new baby sling off ebay so hopefully that will be of assistance next week.

amazingly she actually slept for about three hours yesterday in her baby swing, unbelievable, so out of the ordinary that i kept on checking to see if she was breathing, hahaha.

Oh emma, big hugs to you... im with what Christy ssys... listen to ur special mummy instict.. the sooner i did this with Eden the better we were...
we wentt hru a massive patch of her only sleeping on me or whilst being held.. then i bought a HAB carrier and got some things done that way... i was like you and thought.. ooooo noooo she'll never sleep alone now.... But she does....
Babies have just come from ur tummy where it was warm and safe and snuggled, its a tuff world out here, shes just getting used to it. Give her what she needs and listen to your heart. You are doing a great job and things will seem clearer and easier as each day passes. Hope things improve lovey.
xoox

You can keep them in the hammock for ages, depending on the baby. Jovie was out of hers around 5 1/2 months, but I've known babies to stay in up to 10 months. They are fantastic for refluxy babes.

ETA: For some reason our society is hell bent on keeping babies from doing things naturally. We seem to be set on routines and fixated on what a baby "should" be doing. I get so angry when I hear people telling new mum's that their babies should be sleeping in a set routine. Whose routine is it?? Why do babies have to sleep in a cot?? Who said so? I'm sorry but I haven't seen any 12 yr olds sleeping in their cots or bassinets still or in their parents beds unless its okay by everyone. I have a neighbour who keeps telling me to finish breastfeeding.... I keep asking her "why? who says I should?" because all I can find is information on continuing breastfeeding. Opps... sorry for the rant.

that has actually been my biggest stress factor i think , people telling me what my baby should be doing.... ie having two to three big naps during the day of around three hours, so of course i completely freak out that mine doesnt do that. every baby HAS to be different so how can you pigeon hole them all into doing the exact same things.... its nuts and so unnecessary for a new mum to be bombarded with things the baby should be doing.

that said i am now dead keen to investigate a baby hammock, anyone know how much to hire and where from? (melbourne) she is asleep in her baby swing again (god bless that swing) so am thinking i just may have some luck with a hammock for day time sleeps.

i don't think im allowed to tell u where to hire a hammock from, but just look in your phone book under 'hire' and you will find some baby hire places there. They say bubs can sleep in a hammock til 12 months but it really depends on the baby. DS was out of the hammock at 5 months cause he was strong enough to turn himself over onto his stomach then he would get stuck, but if your bub isn't that restless u could prob keep her in it longer, ours was worth every cent. We paid $75 for either 3 or 6 months, i can't remember, it seemed like alot of money at the time but it was a godsend i would have paid $300 for it!! i just remembered that when he slept in the hammock i would also have to turn on the radio for him. Goodluck

Google baby hammock. Seriously.... I have the Amby hammock for Jovie & have passed it on to another BB member. It can not be the answer everyday, but it does help.

Big hugs Emma. I guess the only thing to say is that it will get better over time.

Priorities you and bubs. If you are feeling run down then you wont be producing as much milk...and that would just add to the nightmare. But on the plus side you have a beautiful healthy baby who wants nothing more than to be with you! This is her time to bond with you. Its hard to get things done but i dont think you want to miss out on this period either.

We went through the same thing with Ella, and now she looks at me and knows i will comfort her if she needs me. She now sleeps on her own and still from time to time likes me to rock her to sleep (which is fine by me)

Call family and friends to help clean, cook, come over to chat. I had ella sleeping on me and had a friend over for a quiet catch up.

Hope it improves for you soon.

Ann

Hi Emma
I have/had the same situation with my daughter. However she does have silent reflux which we later found out, before when she was lying down, the breastmilk would come up (even though we kept her upright after feed, burped etc), this caused a burning sensation and she would end up crying and crying.
I also have the fisher price swing, and she sat in there too for some time becuase it helped keep the acid down.
However Zantac has helped, and also feeding her on an angle and I have elevated her cot.
I also feed her in a pattern, I feed her from one boob, hold her upright, and then let her lying on the rocker upright and play with her, and then feed her again, this gives her a little relief. Granted no relief to me .

Hi Emma. I almost thought it was me posting! My little precious "angel" only sleeps during the day if she's on the couch next to me, with my arm under her head, so not only do we have to snuggle for hours on end on the couch, but I get a dead arm too!

Bella's over 3 months old now, and I would REALLY love for her to have a decent day time sleep so I can get stuff done! I tried the dummy yesterday and got around 40 minutes which is better than I've been getting, but that was it. Still not enough. Just as well she's a wonderful night sleeper (in her own cot).

Good luck with it - like you, I do hope this phase passes and they'll start sleeping during the day soon.

IMPATIENT - ohhhhh i know all about dead arms!! its so great to hear that i am not alone and that this is quite common baby behaviour!! i have actually mastered a position on the couch where i can lie down and she sort of lies on top of me and my arm is propped up so doesnt go as dead, sometimes i even nod off too.

hey i was wondering what is bella's night time routine (if u have one)... as in what time is her last feed, then when does she usually wake up for a night feed (if she has one) and when is she up for the day?

we usually put hollie down about 11pm and she has a feed between 4am - 5am then is awake at say 7.30am.... am just trying to see if i can re-gig it so she sleeps more hours, like put her down at say 8.30pm then wake her for a top up at 10.30pm then hopefully what she usually does which is a feed at 5am and up at 7.30am... that would give me some free time in the evening that way..... oh who knows!!

Hi Emma. Isabella's night routine is as follows:
Around 5pm-5.30pm - Bathtime
Between 7.00-8.00pm (it varies) - Put into sleeping bag and give the bottle (breasfeeding went out the window at around 3 weeks as I couldn't take the pain any longer).
She either falls asleep while drinking, or waits until after her feed and we've walked around with her for around half an hour before starting to nod off. If she's happy to be in bed, she goes off to sleep witout a sound, otherwise we have to pick her up and give her a top-up before she'll go to sleep.

She then sleeps through until 6-6.30am, so we're very lucky in that regard. IF I'm able to settle her and get her to have a sleep during the day, it's around 11am for a couple of hours (on my arm!). Otherwise, she's awake for pretty much the entire day, give or take a few minutes whenever we're going somewhere in the car. VERY frustrating!!!

The other night she woke up at 3.46am for some reason and was sooo happy to see me and was all smiles! She wouldn't go back to bed until over an hour later! She was fine last night though, so must have just had a bad night.

I'm really glad you get a dead arm too - I thought it was just me!! While it's a pain and I can't get anything done, I kind of enjoy it too as it's nice snuggle-time for us!

I do hope they'll grow out of this phase though??!!

holy cr@p! you really are lucky she sleeps such a long stretch!!!! i am considering giving hollie a bottle for her last feed from now on, and putting her to bed at 8.30pm... i am going to give it a go tonight and see how long she sleeps.

last night we gave her a bottle at around 8.30pm and then a bath, and she was asleep by 10pm, and she managed to stay down until 4.50am which i thought was amazing. i then had to take her on the couch with me from about 6am to 8.30am as she wouldnt settle on her own.

i am hoping that eventually they just sleep longer and longer and then miss there middle of the night feed, and that is how they end up sleeping thru the night, is this right? (in theory!?)

amazingly she is now asleep in her hammock (we hired one) and has been down for about an hour!!!!!!!!!!! i am fighting the urge not to go in and check that she is still breathing!

Hi Emma. DD #1 gradually slept longer and longer until she was sleeping through. I'm just lucky Bella did it from only 4 weeks.

She's just had a 40 minute sleep in her rocker, which is better than she's been doing so I suppose I should be grateful! If only she'd do that in her cot!

Glad to hear the hammock is working! When did she eventually wake up? How did she sleep last night?

I've just been to have Bella weighed and the MCHN said her grandson was the same, not sleeping through the day. He's now 3 and sleeps during the day, but not without a fight! We have interesting times ahead I think!

well i tried to get her down earlier but no such luck, bathed her early and gave her a bottle at about 8.30pm, but she just wouldn't settle, i am beginning to think maybe she 'needs' to breast feed in order to settle at night, the bottle just didnt seem to do it. so anyways out of desperation i breast fed her at about 10.30pm and she seemed to be dozing but fitfully, like squirming and waking up, so i took her into bed with me which was such a bad mistake, i barely slept all night as i had to hold her and she kept squirming.... next time i will persevere with getting her down in her own bed as last night was a nightmare, am so tired today so plan on laying on the couch with her and having a nap. the house is a pig sty but i just cannot be bothered to fix it.

oh and she woke at about 3am last night so it wasn't a great sleep as if she is fed at 10.30pm she usually sleeps until at least 4.30am. i keep telling myself it wont be like this forever..... i hope not anyway!

today she slept for about 45 minutes in her hammock, then woke and i had to resettle her in my arms (lots of squirming) then i put her down in her hammock again, she just woke up but i stuck a dummy in and fingers crossed she has gone back to sleep which would be a miracle!

she seems to wake between sleep cycles and i have to resettle her each time, i wonder if she will learn just to go back to sleep if she wakes.

Emma - Nicholas is the same. He sleeps well at night, we give him a bath/shower at 6pm, then a bottle and story and is in bed by 7pm at the latest. We then wake him at about 10.30pm for a "dream feed" and he will usually sleep for about 5 hours. I always start his day with a feed at 7.30am and he feeds every 4 hours from then on until the 6.30pm bed time bottle. I try to get him to sleep during the day, as he is usually tired after being awake for a couple of hours, but he will only sleep for about 20 minutes and then wakes again. I am trying to get him to stay asleep longer by catching him early and putting the dummy back in ASAP. This means that every 20 mins or so, I am running up and sticking the dummy in though. I am hoping that he will eventually be able to settle himself during the day. If all else fails, I put him in the HAB and get on with things around the house, he will usually fall asleep in this.

Good luck, I know it is tough, Nicholas also has reflux and colic, so I try to do what I can and it seems to be different every day. I just try to take it as it comes and try not to stress about the housework (this is hard for me as I am a control freak!!)

DS only settles in my arms unless he's dead tired, then he'll open his eyes as I put him down, let out a short cry (usually just waa, waa) then that's too much so back to sleep again. He usually has a nap between 9 and 10 (in the pram/my arms), a 2-hour nap at lunchtime (in his chair) and another hour-long nap at some point in the afternoon (arms only), depending on how he feels. I have to force him to have the third nap though. He screams if I try to get him to nap in his crib or cotbed. His bedtime routine is 7pm naked time and massage, 7.15 bath, 7.25-7.40 into sleeping outfit and bag, say goodnight to daddy, story, prayers, feed, then lullaby. Oh gosh, we can be at that until 8.30 at night! That's up to an hour of lullaby! Aaagh! I lose my voice some nights.

Most nights he'll do a six hour stretch (he's fully breastfed, pretty much the only February bub who doesn't do a 10-12 hour stretch overnight!) but some only 2-3 hours before being fed to sleep again - he stays in my bed in my arms as I just can't cope with trying to get him to settle in his own bed again. He kept me awake with kicking until I put him in a sleeping bag, that contains him nicely so I can sleep. We're now at the stage where I can sleep on my back with my arm under him and him on his back (relief!); I'm hoping to get my arm back at night soon.

Every baby is different, but at least you know you're not alone with having a sleep-hating baby!

hello again...
its great to hear that i am not alone!!

i just wanted to share an update with you... on monday hollie and i, plus daddy went to a day stay program. i was 100% sure that nothing they could teach me would work, i knew everything (tired signs, sleep cycles etc etc).... anyways, they taught us a method for getting hollie to sleep in her cot, and so far it seems to be working for us. they said they hadnt quite seen a baby so defiant and so determined not to sleep, but after a while she gave in.

basically we do the same thing each time before nap time, we put her in her cot and let her cry for a few minutes, then go in and comfort etc (which for her is just putting the dummy in and shhhh shhhhing, anything else makes her angry), we do this a couple of times and she seems to go to sleep. unbelievable. i had tried this sort of thing before but i was just making her mad as patting her or touching her just made it worse.

i am going to persevere with it as we do seem to be making progress. after her middle of the night feed last night i put her in her cot and didnt hear a peep from her, she just went to sleep. i never would have thought it possible.

:dance: WTG Emma! So happy to hear Hollie is sleeping for you!

Oh yay Emma! Did they say to do the same thing with day sleeps too? I've tried that a few times too, but no luck (with the odd exception here and there), and Isabella's been the baby from hell the last two days, crying all the time and carrying on like a pork chop!

At least she's sleeping through the night, but the day sleeps really need to happen before my sanity disappears!

yes, we are doing it for all sleeps. the first day she slept over 3 hours and i had to go wake her up as it was getting too late in the evening and we wanted to bath her etc. yesterday she only slept two sleeps of 40 minutes, so not so great. but i am going to persevere with it for two weeks, as i have to give it a really good shot - i keep expecting it to work instantly. i think being consistent is important too. it is really hard though, as she screams and screams, but the screams are out of anger, you can really tell she is furious at being put to bed and not being nursed in my arms.

it is really hard but my partner is a tower of strength and keeps me going. he says, well what are u going to do when she cries for lollies, you cant just give in, you have to be strong. it is hard though as she is so young, but i know she isnt hungry, she isnt wet, she isnt too hot or too cold, she is tired, and she has to learn that when she gets put in her cot its for sleeping.

anyways hopefully over the next two weeks it gets easier.

I really hope it works out for you too! I've got a crying baby in her cot at the moment, so I'll see how many times I have to go in and comfort her. Hopefully not too many....!

Ok, I tried letting her cry for a few minutes (she wasn't too upset) before going in and popping the dummy back in. It took three times and she finally went to sleep. It seemed too easy so I checked on her just in case! lol She was fine and slept for 40 minutes. Yay! I hope we can keep it up now with the weekend looming...!

I think I have you to thank Emma, seeing as you posted your experience here, so THANK YOU!! :)