Article: Bad Advice Puts Babies At Risk

ARGH! Some articles are so badly put together. They need to just tell everyone what the safe sleeping guidelines are! Because it is safe when done appropriately just like cot sleeping! But it is the media - drama drama for the story...

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Bad advice puts babes at risk
Article from: The Courier-Mail
Janelle Miles

July 04, 2007 12:00am

AUSTRALIAN babies are continuing to die because of unsafe sleeping environments, such as sharing a bed with their parents, experts warn.

Despite sudden infant death syndrome cases dramatically falling in recent years, experts believe some parents are being given inconsistent safety messages which may put babies at risk of suffocating in their sleep.

In a letter to the latest Medical Journal of Australia, mortuary worker Glenda Cairn, a new mother, said she was alarmed when she rang a health advice service about her child's sleeping problems and was told to take the baby to bed with her.

When she explained she had seen babies who had suffocated in bed with their parents, the response was: "Don't worry about it, it doesn't happen very often."

University of Adelaide pathology professor Roger Byard questioned the responsibility of organisations giving such advice when it put children at risk of death.

"If you get a couple of parents who are overweight, really tired, or intoxicated and the baby is between them with soft mattresses and coverings, that's a very dangerous situation," Professor Byard said.

He said that if parents wanted their babies close by at night, they should put the cot near their bed.

"The baby can stay in the cot, you can touch the baby, they can hear you and you can interact," Professor Byard said.

"But the baby is protected in its own environment."

Professor Byard also warned parents against allowing their babies to sleep with V-shaped pillows, often recommended to mothers for breastfeeding.

"The problem is if the baby is left to sleep between the two arms of the pillow, it can wiggle down between the sides and that's when they suffocate," he said.

"Ideally, babies should sleep on firm mattresses with no pillows."

In 1998, the South Australian coroner recommended a public warning be issued against the use of V-shaped pillows by infants aged under two.

But Professor Byard said the pillows were still being sold in the foyer of at least one obstetric hospital.

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I can see the masses nodding their heads, thinking of people like me and wondering how I could be so wilfully negligent. It's a wonder human populations have made it to the 21st Century, really, huh?
Someone should tell the Inuit, the vast populations of Asians who co-sleep, many Latin Americans, Indians...cos they are obviously at great risk, with no proper professionals to tell them that they are killing themselves off.
At least WE know that babies are actually at greater risk of SIDS by sleeping alone, because they don't have a parent's CO2 to trigger breathing in sleep, where that parent is not drug-affected (prescription or otherwise), does not have a condition like sleep apnoea or obesity as an issue. No, it's not popular to say this because it could offend Western cultures where it is so (nonsensically and counter-evolutionarily) important to keep our little ones separate from us.
I say good on this doctor for recommending co-sleeping! 'Poo' to the lady who ran to the media in a hysteria that someone could suggest bringing a child into the 'marital bed'. Ooooh, society in meltdown!
Better tend to Oscar, who after 12 months, is still miraculously alive and extraordinarily content...(despite also being 'still' breastfed, sling worn, attachment parented in general...)

gosh the midwife at the hospital I had Jack at when he finally cam eot my room @ 3 days we had a real rough night so she put me in bed placed him on his tummy on my chest and tucked us both in I was concerned at first and she said calm down everything will be fine he will settle well and you will be less anxious enjoy this time together we both slept for a hour :)

I think that's on the back of a video I saw on ninemsn about a SIDS warning yesterday. It sounds very different to what the man on tv said. Also if you google The Courier Mail and find the article you can post comments against a particular article.

When i was hospital the nurses slept Chelsea with me....

AND they put pillows around her...with the sides of the bed up....

DS and I sleep on the couch during the day together, I don't consider that to be risky - when he was little he would be on my chest and now he's big enough to definitely feel where he is at all times.
I hate being told that if I'm going to co-sleep that I should do it according to the 'guidelines'. As if my own instinct mechanisms should have come with a manual. Although I DO realise that many people feel more comfortable using the guidelines and need them in order to co-sleep safely, like people with higher anxiety and stress. I've been told "well, as long as you're following the guidelines"...whatever!
When you do natural things like co-sleep and breastfeed, you're probably more in tune for naturally safe co-sleeping anyway.
How about, more babies, proportionately, die from SIDS when sleeping in another room than babies who co-sleep? I realise I'm repeating what I said in my last post, but why is this obvious trend overlooked when one is greeted with horror at the mention of co-sleeping?
I'm glad that even in the BC, DS didn't spend one second in the bassinette and was in our bed from day one. It's just right for us :)

Ah-ha, so my mother was right, co-sleeping WILL kill DS. Oh wait, he ain't dead yet and I actually get some sleep!

Caro, it's great to hear of someone else with a baby in the bed and a husband in the other room! DH won't sleep with DS in case he rolls over or something, but I quite like being able to lie in once in a while. And DS loves a pillow - well, his head propped up. He needs that to sleep; I currently use a soft toy but when he's in bed with me he has my arm and a pillow. I wouldn't let him have a pillow on his own, but he does sleep better with his head a little propped up. As IK says, maternal instincts are better than guidelines.

When Grace was born she was really unsettled in the hospital cot that we were advised to sleep her with us in the bed, so for the first 3 nights, Grace slept on either mine or DHs chest in our bed - and we slept! When we got home, that first night we did the same thing then she went into her own cot in her room with no troubles. We were told by the post natal nurse that we were to not sleep her in our bed as it was dangerous - both DH and I smiled and nodded and thought 'if that is how we chose to sleep and settle our gorgeous newborn girl who is frightened and in this new big wide world, then we will, we aren't stupid'. No wonder people don't know what to do with such mixed advice. I figure if you want to co-sleep - good for you, if you don't want to - good for you too! As long as all practices are safe for both you and baby does it matter?

I find these articles really ironic because I know that co-sleeping saved Imran's life. One night when he was about 3 months old I woke up in a full panic and I knew absolutely that he'd stopped breathing. I poked him and he didn't breath so then I shook him and he took a massive gasp of air and started breathing again. It was the most panic stricken minute of my life - by the time he took that big breath I could hardly breath. To this day my heart pounds a bit when I remember. Had he been sleeping anywhere other than right beside me my spidey senses wouldn't have woken me up and he would have been a SIDs baby :(
After that I never slept so deeply beside him and there were other times that I woke up and felt the need to poke him although he never needed to gasp for air like he did that first time. I'm never sure if those moments were paranoia or if I was just more highly tuned to his breathing so it never lasted so long.
TBH I don't know how well I'm going to cope when the time comes for him to sleep in a seperate room.

Oh Chloe that is so scary!!

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If you get a couple of parents who are overweight, really tired, or intoxicated and the baby is between them with soft mattresses and coverings, that's a very dangerous situation

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Yeah, just like if you get a mum or dad driving a car at really high speeds while drunk with a kid in the car there is a real risk of an accident - so we should ban kids in cars then?

And what is it with the "overweight" thing. Now I can imagine if you were obese, tired and intoixcated there could be issues, but this kind of comment is going to make every new mum carrying a few extra kilos panic about cosleeping.

Personally I have never co slept but even the sids and kids people say its ok if guidelines are followed - shesh!!

Ha! Oscar slept between us, under our duvet (it's wool)! He started out wrapped separately, but got too hot and wriggled out anyway, so we just dressed him less and stuck him between us. Then for ages he slept on top of me and wore even less.
Nowadays, cos the weather's cold again and I'm a sook, he sleeps beside me so that I get cuddles on both sides! He would be better off between us because when he wriggles he has been known to wriggle off the bed (and stay asleep!).
Yeah, the guidelines say 'overweight' (I would read that as 'obese', rather than a less than ideal BMI!), and as far as the other 'rules' about on top of the duvet, up at the bedhead etc. the guidelines can bite me.
The way I see it, is that any condition you have that inhibits your instinct and normal conscious awareness is contraindicated - obesity because of space awareness between two parents, smoking (also because the breath you breathe on your child should be what you naturally breathe out and not from damaged lungs!), mood or consciousness altering medication.
I don't consider what I do to be risky, even though the same practice might be risky for another family. People who are capable of doing their own evaluations shouldn't need these prescriptive guides. There ARE people who do need them because they have anxieties and don't trust the instinct they have, and that's what is good about the existence of guidelines. Otherwise, I don't buy into 'guidelines'.
Anyhow, how fickle is our society? You say you co-sleep and people shake their heads and say, as a 'compromise' that makes them feel better "as long as you follow the guidelines". You say you are breastfeeding a 6 plus month old and people give you all sorts of excuses for not continuing to BF (in instances where there was no actual impediment to BFing) and laugh when you give them the WHO worldwide recommendations. So, 'humph' to guidelines and credit to instinct!

QUOTE: "Yeah, just like if you get a mum or dad driving a car at really high speeds while drunk with a kid in the car there is a real risk of an accident - so we should ban kids in cars then?"

Exactly. More kids die in cars than beds... are we going to legislate against kids in cars? ppffft.

Guidelines are just that, and if you feel that you need to do something outside of the guidelines then consult a professional and there is usually a safe option to make everyone happy.

None of my children would ever sleep on their backs as babies. So I have never put them on their backs. However I have firmly abided by the "firm, clean mattress, no bumpers, ventilation etc side of things. Every time I have been in hospital with my babies the hospital staff have 'allowed' me to settle my babies on their tummies. On every occassion I have been told that my baby could be one out of every ten who just wont settle on their backs and this usually runs in families and is accompanied by a strong neck (almost able to support from birth). And what do you think is natural? Does a newborn human, after crawling up to the mother's breast after birth, have a drink and then roll over onto it's back to sleep? Just food for thought.

I wouldn't go around advising mums to settle their babies on their tummies though... it's not up to me to decide what's right, it should be sanity checked by a professional.

I also co-sleep and I agree with all the comments in here about more babies dying of SIDS in their own beds. Chloe: how frightening!!! More women should be encouraged to trust their instincts rather than subscribe to the "save my infant from me" syndrome.

Well I'm a fat mother who chooses to co sleep with her babies. All 5 of them! It's my Athletic build deep sleeping husband that is more inclined to roll on them. I never have and never would. It is a gross generalisation to suggest that because of ones size they shouldn't do something.
And sorry to say but co sleeping with very overweight parents is not safe co sleeping
I think such nasty comments are better left unsaid. Mothers don't need singling out because of their size. Mother's don't need to be told they are bad mother's because they are so fat. How hard is it already without such comments being made. The article is absolute drivvle, biased, uneducated rant at best.
One word Poppy****.
Dee:(

Proudly co-sleeping since 1996

I wouldn't call you obese, Dee! And yeah, I'm inclined to think that the 'overweight' thing would depend on other things, and not a risk on its own, as with many other things it would be subject to combinatorial factors.
We use our duvet, it is made of natural fibres. Our mattress we chose for health reasons way before DS was conceived...it's made of latex and it's a futon, so we don't have synthetic fumes interfering with our sleeping. In his bassinette I used a latex piece that I cut myself.
Like I've said, where you have your wits and instinct about you, I don't think you need to refer to guidelines to feel you are doing the right thing. I've never asked our caregivers about how we co-sleep or feed and I know DS is doing fine as fine can be. I won't say 'common sense' cos that's non-existent and that's why we have 'guidelines'...for those who lack trust in themselves.
Well, Dee - your kids and my kid are theoretically dead, then!

Lol IK, you made me smile, lol:) I was feeling very fragile there for a minute.
Thanks Ik but I am very overweight.
I never consulted a book or labelled my parenting but its true, my babies are cloth wearing, booby fed, sling worn, co sleeping bubba's. I just go by instinct and intuition, I co sleepbecause it works for us. We are getting to a stage now where Nate will sleep in his cot which is next to my bed but he always ends up back in it cause that's where the booby is. Lol. It nothing for me to wakie in the morning with extra bodies in the bed. It's lovely.
Dee


Proudly co sleeping since 1996

I must have only seen flattering photos, then, Dee!
IMO it comes down to quality of life - if you dont' have quality of life by co-sleeping, don't do it. If you do and it enhances your parenting experience, all power to you :)

Yes exactly, it works for us. :)
Bath my babies were the same they wouldn't sleep well on there backs but on their tummies they would sleep for hours. I never tell people not to sleep babies on their backs, infact I don't comment on it because at the end of the day I'm only concerned with my babies and no one elses and I shouldn't have to justify my choices just as no ones should feel they need to justify what they do. Do what works, is the only advice I give.

P.S Ik What are you having on your avatar, is Baath making you one, it'll be awesome, I love Amanda's, Bath.


Proudly Co sleeping since 1996

You're right Caro, I did take it personally and responded for all fat mumma's.
I now get what you were tring to say, I should know better, an take into consideration that at time you lack the tact button;) and don't really mean what you write they way you write it. I just took it at how it was written. I know it wasn't aimed at me personally but It was a comment about very overweight parents of which I am a member. I realise now that is not what you were trying to say. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
:hugs: peace offering. :)

It was so wonderful to co-sleep with oue DD for the first 3 months! I had to move her in to her cot though, 'cause I found I would wake up really stiff from laying in the one position. I would consider doing it again next time and I would also consider one of those little baby beds with the night light and all, that lays on your bed. Does anyone have one?

Do these people think that mankind always had cots?

Bath, interesting about the tummies... DS has always had a strong neck, held up his head the day after he was born (too drugged up to do so on the day) and DH is a definate tummy sleeper. DS hates back sleeping so I may see what the tummy does for him tonight - anything for more than half an hour's sleep at a time! My main insistence with back/side sleeping is that I hate that DH won't cuddle me on his front and I dont want my future DiL to go through those arguments with DS! I hate front sleeping and no cuddles - DS WILL cuddle me LOL. Oh yes, and his future wife. Very selfless of me.

Dee, my DH is on the skinny side and won't co-sleep in case he squishes DS. It's awareness, not weight, that's the problem - I think mothers are naturally more aware of babies than fathers in a lot of cases. I'm a bad mother for covering DS with the duvet, I'm sure (then again, I'm a bad mother for co-sleeping full stop, if you listen to some evil witches), but it's what works for you.

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Actually it was aimed at very overweight Parents sleeping on either side of a baby sandwiching that baby in, I have read reports of a baby that died that way in the USA on a another message board in the USA when i had my DD.
Also a very overweight woman who unsafely coslept on the lounge

It certanly wasnt a comment of any kind saying anything about bad mothers

And it wasnt about being overweight or very overweight I should say it was more about then needing to follow the guidelines because of it.. Which I still think is a fair comment...

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:rolleyes:Well actually Caro this is what you wrote, the last line is what I took offence to. You clearly stated that co sleeping with very overweight parents is not safe co sleeping. Which implies that very overweight people who co sleep are bad parents for co sleeping in the first place. What you're saying is that it's okay aslong as one of the parents isn't overweight. As I stated my DH is of an athletic build, you'd be very hard pressed to find an once of fat on him, but he is the deepest sleeper and he tosses and turns and snores all night long, I would never leave a baby in bed with him cause he is likely to roll on him. People who are heavy sleepers probably shouldn't co sleep more so than people who are fat. You didn't say anything about sticking to the guidelined in that post although in retrospect I'm sure that's what you were impling. My problem was with the last added rogue statement in this particular post. Which I have already apologised for misunderstaning you.:)

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Ooooh Chloe how scary and yep that is what Co Sleeping is all about...I know what you mean when our DD Went to her own room at 15mths I freaked :( she had the breathing monitor under her and sound on as well heh heh ! until she went into the toddler bed
But she is the most confident sleeper and we have no problems

Aurora that is correct Overweight, really tired or intoxicated between two of them with soft mattresses and coverings IS A dangerous situation.

You need to have a Firm Matress , bubs in their own grobag for warmth and not inbwetween two parents but on one side of one parent

And sorry to say but co sleeping with very overweight parents is not safe co sleeping

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Ryn exactly right it is awareness not weight that is the problem.
Dee

Proudly Co sleeping since 1996

I'm glad we cleared that up, chickies :)
At least our babies will be less likely to have issues with sleeping in the dark!

This is on the sids & kids site:

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Research has shown that the risk of SIDS and fatal sleep accidents increases in the following circumstances.

• If a parent who smokes bedshares with their infant
• If a parent is under the influence of alcohol or drugs that cause sedation
• If a parent is excessively tired
• If other children share the bed with an infant
• If the infant gets caught under bedding e.g. pillows and duvets
• If the bed is a water bed or if the mattress is too soft
• If a parent falls asleep with an infant on a sofa
• If an infant gets caught between the bed and the wall or falls off the bed
• If the infant is rolled on

Research in New Zealand and the UK has shown that sleeping baby in the same room, but not in the same bed, with the parents in the first six to twelve months of life is protective. This is thought to be because parents can see the baby and easily check to see that baby is safe. This protective effect does not work if the baby is in the room with other children probably because the children do not know if an infant is safe or not.

Never sleep baby on a soft mattress, couch beanbag, or waterbed with or without a parent as there is a very high risk of a sleep accident.

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No mention of parents being overweight? I would think one of the above factors came into it rather than it being a weight issue if something went wrong.

Can someone point me to these 'guidelines' that are supposed to be followed? I kinda agree, that co-sleeping is natural and instinctive rather than something you need to follow rules on (the guidelines on the SIDS site are common sense really) We didn't co-sleep until DS was about 7 months or more. Will probably co-sleep earlier with the next one, now we have more confidence in it. I was always a bit nervous when he was tiny. But he's always been between the 2 of us, and under our covers (well... as under as I can get him to stay! LOL - he wriggles his way out most of the time)

ETA: Just wondering - do those of you who co-sleep with subsequent children change your own mattress for each child just like the 'guidelines' say to get a new cot mattress for each child?

hehe - still no mention of overweight! :)

Well, the thing with changing the mattress is a buildup of bacteria etc.. you can't tell me adult mattresses don't get the same buildup - if not more, coz of 2 people using it etc etc.

I'm not actually getting a new cot mattress - nor would i spend the money on a new queen mattress! I was just wondering how strictly people follow "guidelines" :)

We've got latex, because (as a firefighter) when you see a few lots of furniture burn and you know why you are wearing breathing apparatus, it gives me the heebie jeebies to think that I sleep in that! I know I won't be sleeping in a burning mattress (duh!), but I just decided that it was one of a few reasons to go natural. That and my concerns about the synthetic estrogens in PVC. So, it's quite apart from SIDS, and my mattress choice is an accidental compliance with the 'guidelines'!

Ha! Madness wouldn't be too off the mark!
It's a recognition of part of my heritage, which is Mayan, from Central America. I guess I haven't gone to much effort thus far to incorporate it into my life and it's just high time I did :) I have been thinking of a new username for over a year!