Whyyyyy?

I know he's teething. I know he's getting over a cold. But to not let me sleep for more than half an hour at a time is just not on.

Last night he did 8-8.30-9-9.30-10.15, then I was up until 11.30 (he slept) - btw, I was napping on the sofa in the sitting room until about 10, so it isn't my presence that keeps waking him - then he woke up again about 11.45,12.15,12.45, needed me pacing the floors until gone 2, awake again at 2.30 and I was pacing the floors another hour, same again at just before 5am, then at 6.30 and 7. If I stop pacing he wakes up and screams. If I try to sit down still holding him he screams. He didn't even want me to have a shower this morning (tough, I can sing to him for ten minutes and he managed not to cry for about 9 of those minutes).

What on earth is going wrong? Why am I such a dreadful mother he won't sleep for me? I know it's not about my mothering, but every time we have a bad patch (this has gone on for about a week now) all I can hear is my mother saying "Well, I don't know what YOU'RE doing wrong. I had you both sleeping through at 8 weeks. Your grandmother was very good with babies, all hers slept through at 6 weeks." Implicit inference from that is that she thinks I'm a crap mother.

I feel like crap - he still does his 3 day sleeps but I have to enforce them too, he fights every single sleep all the way.

We have a routine we stick to, we have a lullaby that works (although my throat is very sore now), our day routine is even the same day in, day out (mornings for sitting, stories and quiet play, ie Mummy time after a bad nights sleep; afternoons for big play, sometimes with other babies; evenings for bedtime routine (I am serious, this starts with DH coming home at 5.15, everything is pretty much clockwork until sleeping time), sleeps at 9.30-10ish for 30-60 mins, 12ish for 1-2 hours, 4ish for 30-60mins). We go out in the fresh air every single day. Usually in the mornings.

When he wakes he isn't hungry, just grousing about something. I say grousing, five seconds later it's full-blown screaming. He sleeps ususlly on his back or his side. He has a bedtime toy that he seems fond of. He knows he is in his crib as when I put him in there he opens his eyes briefly and grabs his rabbit to cuddle. What else can I do?

I'm sorry that I don't have the answers for you Ryn...it sounds like a tough time with little sleep :( Would massage relax him enough to sleep? It could be worth a try. You're a wonderful mother. I enjoy reading your posts through your journey into motherhood, and never once have I thought "man, she's a terrible mother". Quite the opposite - I really admire you! I hope someone with more experience that me can offer you some helpful advice so that you can get a more restful night's sleep.

Ryn, you poor love, it's so hard to find a solution and get any perspective on things when you're sleep-deprived. Let alone a sleeping solution!

First of all, in my experience (on the end of receiving advice) mothers and grandmothers seem to have very rosy memories of what we/their children were like as babies (and toddlers and I assume it'll continue right into childhood). Even when it comes to comparing with beloved grandchildren. So I wouldn't take what your mum is saying too seriously, I swear the mind must forget a lot (I'm hoping for one to forget stinky nappies)! And for some reason their advice always comes across with a dash of criticism. Nobody knows your baby better than you and you are absolutely the best mother he could have!

Secondly, the only tip I can offer is to try sleeping with Liebling while he isn't well or is unsettled. I think I've read before that you have? I found that was a winner with Lucy and still is if she isn't well. It's usually only for a night here, but whatever works, I say, go with it.

Have you tried using something like the Hug-A-Bub or a sling during the day to keep him close (not in the shower tho!)?

I'm sure some of the other girls will have some great tips. He will get better and I hope you get some sleep soon!

Ryn you poor bugger I would be tearing my hair out by now....I dont have to much to offer in terms of advice as my 2 still wake most nights. All I can say is that you are doing a great job as a mum.It's bloody hard work and I think our mothers forget that. I sometimes get comments from my mum about things and while I know she's not trying to be nasty it does come across as critisism and then has me questioning myself am I a good mother? I remember during my pregnancy (mind you I was carrying twins) every test I had done or appointment I had was met with "I never had to do that when I had you kids." I got the comment once about us sleeping through early and I just responded "well were'nt we nice to our mummy"

I know its hard but try and ignore the comments.If he is unsettled because of his teething just think that it will pass in no time.:hugs:

Ohhh hugs Ryn, sick unsettled babies aren't fun.

A couple of things that work for us when River transforms into Dr. Whinge were and are, carrying him around in a sling, it seems to calm him and I just wander around the house.
Also co-sleeping, and at first I had to let him sleep on top of me, which didn't make for a comfy nights sleep for me, but now if he's unsettled, he'll sleep inbetween me and dh.

Hope you find something that works for you, and hang in there!

We co-sleep and babywear alreay! He won't sleep atop me (would fall off, I've lost that much weight recently) but usually we sleep on our sides, him with a faceful of breast (DH is most jealous LOL) and me cuddling him. Sadly DS is wanting feeding so often the sling isn't his favourite place right now as he's so close to his milk.

The bedtime routine includes a massage and a warm bath just prior to that.

BTW, my mother even thinks DS's reflux is my fault for not winding him properly in the early days She is anti-baby wearing, demand feeding and co-sleeping so keeps telling me that this causes the problems we're having. He's actually an angel during the day most of the time but that doesn't stop her telling me everything is wrong! And she's invited herself round on Sunday and Monday (even my clothes aren't good enough, she's taking me to buy some more on Monday!).

Oh Ryn, it seems awfully harsh from your POV, but I'm sure your Mum doesn't mean to hurt your feelings. As long as she's paying for the new clothes!

Liebling will feel better soon, and then so will you. You are doing everything you can to soothe him.

He's been like this since Monday so I'm hoping it passes soon! As for my mother, she gets in a strop when I tell her she has upset me and I have to spend hours apologising to her for my mean streak - I do not like her at all!

To be fair, I looked after her for years and ran around trying to get her to love me (yes, I know she did love me, but I had this mad idea that I had to make her notice me in a good way and love me) and just this last year she's wanted to be a mother to me and I should be grateful for that - I even got things wrong in pregnancy, like I couldn't possibly have felt my first kick when I did, despite seeing my tummy come out with it; she got in a strop when I corrected her and said I had felt a kick, she was wrong!

Ryn - it sounds like he has "colicky" symptoms (sorry if this is something you already know) as to me it seems most unusual for him to scream and be unhappy throughout the night. IT IS NOT YOU - but you know that. It sounds like there is definately something wrong with your DS. Have you seen a paediatrician? Is he on meds for reflux? I'm sure you've already looked in to this but it doesn't just sound like sleep is the problem but rather there is a physiological problem causing him to wake frequently and cry (leading to no sleep for all!!!).

I did see a GP on Monday (DS had vomitted blood) but she was unconcerned - she did call a paed for advice, but told me there's nothing to worry about. Meds for reflux, don't make me laugh, we aren't allowed those! Even kids who have severe reflux aren't allowed those - the docs won't prescribe it and we can't get it over the counter, unless you class Gavisgon as an AR med.

I did see my GP this morning for coffee and she has made me an appointment for tomorrow to see her as I completely broke down when a friend asked how the sleeping was going, so I hope we may get something sorted soon.

I'm also wondering about solids as he is very hungry - he does feed and not possett overnight, but not feed to sleep in the middle of the night and doesn't take a full 2 breasts of milk, only one.

Hmmm. Well he is almost 5mths so a little bit of solids could help? I have been told that around 6mths of age (or when they are sitting up independently) the reflux gets much better so it's not that far away for you to hang in for. I can't believe they don't give you reflux meds. It has made such a difference for us as my DS would only sleep short periods of time before waking up screaming until we started meds. Gosh, I wonder what's in the meds that makes them so bad that they won't give them to you. Could you look into finding a paed experienced in reflux? I find the GP's are more reluctant to medicate.

BTW - you've gotta stop worrying about your mum, she doesn't sound supportive at all. Please try to ignore her unhelpful advice. :hugs:

It's the cost issue - as DS is so young he gets free prescriptions so he's prescribed little so the health services stay within budget. That's my "I have worked for the NHS and been involved in drug pleas" side coming out - I'm sure other people would come up with a less political view.

To be fair, the reflux had almost gone until just this week and now it's back with a vengence. DS can sit up unaided, stand with support (that can be non-parental support, like a solid activity arch), feeds sitting on my knee (he dislikes being held horizontal to me) and I'm at a loss with what else to do!

And you're right about my mother, it's just so hard to go from working to keep her happy to doing something that will upset her - I can't cope with the fallout right now.

Oh gosh Ryn - you're bringing back memories of teething. DS would wake up screaming blue murder, and not really be comforted by cuddles either. We had a few nights in a row of 30min sleeps and I was just exhausted. Of course, being me, I didnt' realise it was teeth, so the poor little man was given no relief like panadol or anything.. It's only once 5 teeth appeared at once that I went OMG you poor thing, you were teething!

Have you tried paracetamol with him if he's teething? Or do you have something like Brauer's Teething Relief (natural herbal thing) ? I think they have some Calm one as well, which might help if he has tummy troubles.

I hope it passes soon and you get some much needed rest. *hugs*

Baby paracetamol all has E122 in it, or at least all the ones I can find do, and this sends DS hyper. Then again, couldn't be worse than this! He also has had homeopathic camomile, but this does little.

The teeth are nearly here (12 weeks after teething started!); they are now poking up a bit but still under the gums.

Thanks for all the help and support girls - even if I've tried all your ideas it's good to know I've tried everything, not just thought I had and really missed out on a huge chunk of things I could do!

Hi Ryn

Just a stab in the dark - have you tried elevating his cot at all if it is a reflux problem. Also, I don't know if they have Bach's Rescue Remedy in the UK at all, I read somewhere else on BB that it can be used for unsettled babies, or Calms Forte 4 Kids (it is a homeopathic remedy also) is another one. My mum kept saying to me that me and my sister were sleeping through at 6 weeks and can't understand why DD isn't at 10 months....

Hugs to you and hope this passes quickly!!
Laurin :)

Ryn

I'm a new mom with a little screamer. Don't have a lot of tips, but I found that dancing (like the waltz) around our kitchenroom table and singing any tune that poped into my head helped (It's a great full body workout :P - last thing your thinking about I know)

Thinking of you - you sound like a great mom.

Hi, Ryn,

It sounds like you are at the end of your tether! It sounds like your sick, and he's sick. You are doing all you can. He's just miserable. There things don't last forever, but it's really hard going while it lasts. You are a great mum, it's nothing you are oing (repeat that to yourself) If things don't get better, take yourselves to the doctor just to get it all checked out. Some things, like sore ears, aren't always obvious but can be very painful for a little guy.
Warm Regards
Barb

Hey Ryn,

:hug: you poor things :(

My DD was another one who started with teething symptoms at around 12 weeks and didn't get a tooth until 7 and a half MONTHS - all those weeks of drooling, hot little face, clawing at cheeks and screaming and screaming.... *sigh* - it passes, it's all i can tell you, it passes. That's no bloody use at all now is it?!

Your mum sounds like mine. It probably makes me sound like a nasty piece of work but i can see if she had been around for my baby-having i too would have been doing EVERYTHING wrong. Apparently i toilet trained at 9 months - that's right everyone, i could use a toilet around 9 months before bladder and bowel control become physically possible! And i never used a potty (even though i can REMEMBER using a potty and i must have been at least 2), only a toilet. She had a very imaginative and selective memory of our babyhoods. In addition she told me, because i was "moody" during adolescence (when i was coming to terms with sexual abuse and dealing with her having 2 terminal illnesses and having 7 heart attacks and a stroke in 3 years) that i would certainly get post-natal depression - which sounds stupid now but i worried SO much about that when i was PG... She was also the sort of person to play martyr - she would find fault with someone and if they objected go on about how cruel and unfeeling they were. Her nasty comments were "honesty" ours were "cruelty". One COULD NOT win with her. I loved her, she was my mother, but she was in incredibly complex person and all of my achievments (however i felt about them) were really about her. My DD would have been the same, i'm fairly sure of it.

The truth of the matter with Liebling is that in the middle of the night, when his mouth hurts and his oesophagus is burning and he's tired and hurting and desperate to feel better, the only person he wants to tell is you. That's not you being unable to soothe him - you ARE soothing him, you listen, you care, you hold him and love him and let him know he's justified in feeling how he does. You validate his distress and allow him to express it. That is incredibly valuable Ryn. When he is 5, 13, 19, 24, 37, and he needs to be able to tell someone how he's feeling, he'll be able to, because you're teaching him, right from day one, that he is loved, cared about and LISTENED TO. To listen to your child, to let them know by your interest, by you trying, no matter how much difference it SEEMS to make or not make, is such an important thing. He is learning, he already knows, that when everything is bloody terrible he can trust Mummy, Mummy cares.

I know how exhausting it can be, we still have the occasional night where i'm up lugging a big 12kg toddler round in my arms as i sing and she sobs, but i know it's me who helps, me she wants to cry to, me she wants to tell. She doesn't keep her feelings to herself, and that's what i want - her to feel she can talk to me, that her feelings are valid. She's not old enough for real tantrums, but even now, with her limited vocabulary, she tries to talk to me before screaming her head off - tonight she was over-tired, cranky, desperate for bed. I was putting her nappy on after her bath and she started to cry - i couldn't see what was wrong, "what is it sweetheart?" i asked her. "Teeth. Teeth" she wailed - she wanted her toothbrush (she "starts" her teeth then mummy finishes (cleans ;)) them) so she could brush her teeth and hasten bedtime. Already, at 15 months, she knows if she comes as far as she can towards me with communication, i'll meet her. That is worth 1000 nights walking the rooms (though only in retrospect, NOT at the time :) lol).

In the meantime YOU need to be able to tell how you feel. Come here, tell DH (it might help, before you tell him, to say "i need to vent - you don't have to "solve" this, please just listen to me moan" - men think any complaint is a demand for a solution), tell anyone who'll listen. Let it out, you're not a bad mother Ryn, you are a BRILLIANT, BRILLIANT mother. Don't let your less-than-brilliant mother tell you different.

:hug:

Bec

xxx

I am now fairly sure it's a solids issue - he has an elevated cot (and a pillow when he's in with me), we love dancing (Lieby's favourites are 1970s disco hits - your should see him do Satying Alive!). Anyway, last night I decided to not feed him, I'd just pace the floor all night if that's what it took. I figured I couldn't get more fatigued at this point!

He did 2 and a half hours between feeds (last feed started 7.40, ended 7.50, asleep 8pm, awake 10.10 and screaming) so I picked him up and started singing his lullaby. After five minutes of him screaming non-stop to this I figure I am engorged so may as well feed him - straight back to sleep. So he is needing to be fed. He did a few more 2-hour stints, but mostly 1-hour stints, so I feel a lot more rested today - only awake for pacing between about 3.30 and 4, then 5.30 and 6.

Anyway, we're seeing my GP today for a proper check-up, if she identifies anything we'll go on that but I think it's time to give him a bit of baby rice now. None of my friends here with boys managed to make it anywhere near six months with their lads (girls were less hungry, apparently) so I'm not going to beat myself up too much about it.

And I'm out of milk now - I am so drained I can't produce more. So I'm typing this while walking up and down with DS and trying to eat breakfast so I can make more milk! Sounds like he's hungry - but if it's something else we'll get it cracked. Seeing a couple of LCs this morning too and will see what they think.

Thank you everyone!

Hi Ryn

You poor love, I hope you get some more answers today. It sounds like he is wanting to be fed more while he is sick, but I think babies are very clever and know that it will help them to bf more often.

I well remember one period with Lucy where she fed every hour during the day and was down to a half hour stint by the evening and I thought there was absolutely nothing left! Thankfully they get better quickly.

I wouldn't think you'd need to introduce solids if he's bfing more. It won't take long for his demand to increase your supply to what he needs and if he's sick it might only be temporary. It'd just be one more thing for you to worry about!

Let us know how you go.

Ryn,
You say your milk supply is drained. I don't know if you have the same stuff, but when I had low milk production my caregiver gave me the recipe for Jungle-berry juice. Its 1 liter of apple juice, mixed with 2 liters of water. Add 50ml blackthornberry-extract and a packet or Rehidrate (electrolyte booster) You can also put some natural shock-remedy drops in it to calm you down (about 10 for the whole batch), but I left that out. It's a day's juice. Drink when your need to. I should last about a day and a half. And it does not taste that bad. Like watered down appeljuice!

I hope the dr can find something - not that I am hoping he is sick. It's just then you know whats bothering him and if and how it can be fixed.

Ps. Blackthornberry-extract is not for diabetics. If it applies to you, I am not sure if you can substitute it with something - sorry

Jennifer, I've just had to fight him so I can eat my toast - he kept trying to grab it and stick it in his mouth. I have this most mornings, and with my cereal too.

My supply was at 0 because DS had about 10 feeds in 12 hours and I had nothing in that time... I may just need to put food by my bed. I ate breakfast and instant milk!

He only possetted, not threw up, twice yesterday and seems to be breathing a lot better so I think he's over his cold and reflux flare-up, but I'm still going to keep an eye on him. I'll be asking for a lot of advice before I start solids... although the main reason I don't want to is (yes, you can beat me with a stick for this) because I don't want my mother to tell me that she told me so - while I was pg she was pushing for me to do solids at 3 months and I kept correcting her with current guidelines of 6-9 months. I know I don't have to tell her, but it's just the principle of the thing. She's NOT right about ANYTHING to do with my son! Then again, she keeps telling me I was eating chocolate at 4 months (we have photos) and had my first hangover at 10m - I've seen pics of me drinking ?red wine/sherry at the party. So I'm determined she will have no say whatsoever in DS's diet... but then, doing this because of her is letting her have a say, isn't it? Well, just see what the LCs and the GP say today.

Ryn, you know your baby better than anyone. Maybe just keep it a secret from your Mum and then you can take the credit for how well he 'takes' to solids after 6 months! I don't think it's a bad thing to aim to do it differently from your Mum if she set a good example of what not to do! I spend a lot of time trying to make sure DP and I don't do anything his parents did and a lot of what mine did!

I like to think of it as learning from the mistakes of those who made them previously.

RYn my DD was the same at 5 and a little bit months - starvin! And milk was only cutting it for an hour or two. See what your GP says, but if all looks well then i'd be inclined to agree that a little something to fill his belly better might be a good idea.

Bec

PS - BOO your mum, YAY you!

Ryn - as you know, I agree with the idea of starting solids - however, have you thought about giving him one formula feed just before bed at night to 'top him up' if you feel your supply is not adequate for him? Might be worth trying and I'm pretty sure you can get anti-reflux formulas. You could maybe give this a go before starting the solids - worth a try anyway! (and you don't have to tell your mum either way)

No sure if anyone else has mensioned it but have you tried giving him some panadol when hes like that? Might just relax him and lessen any pain or irritability he has?

It was the solids/starvation... he slept normally again last night. Well, awake for the day at 5.30, but thst just shows how much sleep he has been missing because he was happy then. He was spoon-feeding himself (grabbing the spoon in my hand and my hand to stick that food in his mouth ASAP) and had babyrice with my milk (which is pretty yuk, I tried it myself after DS finished with it) then banana, which he loved and kept saying/drooling "bbbbbbb" all evening after that.

Anyway, we're all happy now, thank you for all your encouragement and ideas. Guess I didn't "need" the cream buns and apricot danishes yesterday then... oh well, at least they went to a good home! (Yummy yum in my tummy tum!)

Aww, so cute with the "bbbbb". Esme says "nana! Nana!" and points enthusiastically at the fruit bowl. :)

Glad you got it sorted out Ryn :) Liebling's Mumma knew best now didn't she?!

Bx

Hungry man ate twice as much banana tonight - I had to get him seconds! Now just have to hope he sleeps even longer... wouldn't it be nice to have my (nice clean with fresh sheets) bed to myself for a bit tonight!

Banana was one of Lucy's faves when she was little too and still is! She's even gone to the bin to retrieve the skin at her godmother's house to tell her she wanted more!

Hope you get a good sleep and enjoy your fresh sheets!

Dear Ryn, You are not a bad mother, my Mum forgot what is was like to be a new Mum too. She told me my milk wasn't "strong" enough and that was why my baby cried. What rubbish! They forget what it was like i'm sure. My little man has never been a great sleeper, he thinks sleep is for losers! Pity his Mummy doesn't share his opinion....He is now 16 months old and we still get up one (sometimes twice)a night and have just accepted him for who he is. He is a very out there child who gets lonely and wants comfort through the night. Luckily for us it has always been a quick feed, nappy change and we are all back in bed in 20 mins or so. The times when I have been a bit cranky or stressed he senses it and gets very upset and cries much longer. We wEnt to sleep school when he was 8 months old and they had a lullaby CD that played all night which we now use, it's supposed to be a bit comforting to hear familiar music when they wake in the dark of night. He also has a bed buddy - a Gund bear that he adores, it too helps him feel less alone when he wakes up. He is starting to get better we will sometimes get a few nights a week of straight through sleeping from 7.30pm to 6.30-7ish am.He did go for 2 weeks straight with no wake ups but he has popped a new tooth this week so has been a bit unsettled again. I know probably none of this helps but sometimes it's just good to know that not all babies sleep through from 6 weeks no matter what our mothers tell us!

Hi there
I really feel for you. You sound like a great mother, just ignore all those with hazy memories of how brilliant their babies slept! My MIL likes to tell me how her sons slept through the night FROM BIRTH - ???

Anyway your bub sounds like what my DD did until recently. She was a reflux baby, has been on zantac and losec and neither did much. We finally saw a new specialist about a month ago and he diagnosed her with food intolerances - apparently most reflux babies have these, especially to dairy. Have you tried that path at all? My DD's severe symptoms didn't start till around 5 months, which is also apparently common for food problems (she is almost one now)

I went on an elimination diet and so far we've identified dairy, soy and wheat are problems for her. She used to wake screaming between 5 and 10 times a night. She has slept through the last two nights after a month on the new diet. We've also been able to drop the losec dose by two thirds - seems the tummy pain was causing most of the reflux symptoms.

May be worth a try? The elimination diet really sucks but it was soooo worth it for us - let me know if you'd like info about the one I did.

Thanks girls, DS is back to normal now, the only food thing I have to do is sus out what he likes; he doesn't like necterine so didn't eat much and thus slept poorly last night. He loved apricot and slept for long stretches after scoffing loads of that. And avoid E numbers; Calpol makes DS hyper so no E122 for us!

I actually want a calming music CD on low all night; we have no plug points in the bedroom save one for a bedside lamp (I know!) so that means my DH doing a lot of re-wiring. Battery powered lullaby machines just make DS cranky. He also has a bed bunny and this has worked - he grabs it and cuddles/eats it. Having to wear it again today as it's not working so well of late.

I do have one friend who delights in telling me over and over that I don't have it bad, her son is 2 and has never slept through. After 3 months of her doing the "I'm more hard-done-to" routine I mentioned to a friend (who hears this from her a lot too) how much this bothered me; she told me the lad doesn't sleep because he drinks tea and coke all day. Well, at least I have no caffeine so can eliminate that reason. It's good to know not all babies sleep through, but it's not a "poor me" contest!