Can You Believe This??!!!

Just had to vent in here - I have posted most of this in my journal, but wanted to say it here to people that would understand!!!!

I had my nephews 1st birthday & Christian Dedication yesterday - Just at SIL & BIL's house... It was a big day!
SIL had invited most women from her mothers group, so along with the normal children in our family, there were 1yr old babies everywhere.
I do really well with babies & pregnant women - You can surround me with them & it doesn't bother me... even when the discussions are full on pregnacy & baby related... But had a tough moment yesterday.. (Not due to this, though)
The Christian dedication was done by DH's Aunty... She is a pastor in her local church.
Not sure what religion they are (I know its not one I'm too familiar with) - Because she has a big problem with IVF - Believes its up to God as to whether we are blessed with children.. and technology has no right to interfere.... HHHMMM... Yes, wait because it gets better!!!
She married into the family - And there are many members of his family that she is a little hostile with for various choices they have made (Living together before marriage, etc).
I was expecting it to be tough, but her speech hit me hard yesterday... She quoted a passage of the Bible relating to having children, and then gave her own beliefs of what it meant... Her interpretation was that Jesus blesses those who are deserved with children... and if you are not blessed with them, it comes down to 2 reasons.... 1. Because he doesn't believe you have what it takes to be a parent... (WTF???!!!!), or 2. You just haven't asked him the right way..!!!!! (Basically going on to say that Jesus believes that SIL & BIL are great paents, and so have been blessed with my nephew)
OMG, I almost lost it at that point, and made myself scarce inside until I had calmed down!!!

This is just a ridiculous thing to say anyway - I'm fairly certain I am not familiar with any section of the Bible that says this - I'm not overly religious, but Come ON!!!!!
A completely unnecessary addition to the ceremony - and incredibly insensitive by a stranger doing the service... Let alone DH's Aunty.. a family member who knows EXACTLY what we have been through TTC over the last 6yrs!!!

To top it off, afterwards I had a number of different people come up to me and say things along the lines of "Holly, did you hear that part in the service.... maybe you guys just aren't asking Jesus properly"...... AAAUUUUGGGHHH!!!!
Not only that - the 9year old I brought with me - Last time I checked, he was my son, so is he invisible to everyone there???!!!!
I ended up snapping at my MIL (only because she was about the 6th person to comment) - And said "You don't think after everything DH & I have been through over the last 6yrs, the thousands of $$$ we've spent, that he hasn't held me many times while we've both been heartbroken & crying and said Oh please God, give us a baby??!!!! - Is that not the right way to ask???!!! And does it matter how you ask the question???!!!"
As soon as I said it, she realised what she'd said, and just gave me a big hug & apologised for being insensitive - It took everything in me to not fall apart at that point and burst into tears.... But I held it together!!!
To make it worse, DH wasn't even there - He & his father had to work... But his brother was livid in my defence... anyone would have thought HE was my DH!!!!
Lucky DH (or his father) weren't there, because I know they for sure would have said something... and my poor little nephews day would have been ruined!

Sorry for the big rant & rave, but could not believe this yesterday, and needed DESPERATELY to get this off my chest!!

Love Holly
xxx :D

Oh Holly - how incredibly insensitive and narrow minded. I dont blame you for being upset hun, I grew up in a christian church too and totally agree with you - where exactly does it say that in the bible!?? It DOESNT and its one of the things I dislike the most about religion at times... the liberty people take with what is in there and the superior attitude they take on. "..not asking Jesus properly? Pppffftttt what a crock...grrr sorry Im really cross now.

I hope you are ok and Im glad your MIL apologised - I guess sometimes people think they are helping when actually they make things worse in a way... huge *hugs* to you and your DH.

i know i posted in your journal hun, but i just wanted to post again to say how horrified i am over the comments this woman made. it makes my blood boil when such utterly baseless and hurtful remarks are made in the name of faith (or anything else for that reason) - you're a remarkably strong person to have been able to survive the day yesterday without completely losing it. congratulations hun

you DO deserve to be a mummy to another bub - and i'm sure it will happen for you soon - take care

Oh Holly you poor thing. I can't understand what it would have been like for you but I do sympathise. It's amazing how SOME (exgerating the some - don't want to start a debate) religious people take oportunities to make other people who don't agree with some of their beliefs feel bad. Very un-christian I believe.

Huge :hug: for you.

Oh sweets :hug: I would have been furious too!! I'm lucky that no-one in my family or church ever said anything like that to me while I was going through IVF.

:

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Her interpretation was that Jesus blesses those who are deserved with children... and if you are not blessed with them, it comes down to 2 reasons.... 1. Because he doesn't believe you have what it takes to be a parent... (WTF???!!!!), or 2. You just haven't asked him the right way..!!!!!

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Sorry, but that's just bollocks!! I'm a Christian, and I still think it's bollocks!! #1 is just ridiculous, because there are PLENTY of people out there who have children but definitely don't have what it takes to be a parent (e.g. abusive families). #2 ... well, without wanting to start a religious debate, I believe that Jesus answers prayer ... sometimes he says "yes", sometimes he says "no", sometimes he says "wait - not yet".

I would have been just as angry if I were in your shoes. I hope you feel a bit better for venting hun. And I hope that another bubs for you is just around the corner :hug:

:angry: That makes me so mad!

Obviously they are lacking in compassion. I'd love to know which passage was read to see exactly how they could have interpreted it that way.

Holly, I'm so sorry you had to go through something like that, and I'm very, very proud of you for holding it together, because I know there's no way I'd have been able to.

I can only imagine just how many people that church would drive away with that attitude, and I'm so incredibly grateful that my church has none of that and has supported both me and my DH through this journey.

:hug:

BW

Wow Holly that is just awful. What a horrid woman to use a little boys dedication day to preach her views to a captive audience. She was completely out of order doing that and if she was aware of your situation in any way she really should have been chucked out!

I'm not a religious person as such but have my own beliefs and i certainly don't think her comments about god only giving people children who ask correctly or deserve them would be agreed by anyone who was a Christian! (or probably any other religion)

:hugs:

Julie x

Oh my hun... how rude and selfish... im sorry you had to deal with that. No one deserves it.

i totally agree with eveything all these girls have said you poor thing haveing to put up with that crap im so happy you held yourself together hun well done some people just have no idea and im sorry you had to go through that

Oh Holly, I'm absolutely gobsmacked at those comments, I don't know what to say!
sending lots of hugs...

Nic

OMG. OMG. I can't imagine what that was like for you. Not only am I shocked, but my blood pressure is just boiling up.
What a load of crap! Everyone else has summed up all the reasons why she's wrong, but if i was your BIL i'd be p!ssed that someone would use my child's special day to babble on with their own crazy agenda.
I know that people were just jokingly trying to reassure you afterwards (they must have all been cringing too) but they just should have given you a hug rather than try to make a joke of it. But we are all used to that aren't we!
I am so proud of you for keeping it together. Why did you have to put up with that crap. It is so unkind. In this case i even think God might be cringing!!!
Many many :hugs:
Jo

Holly
The woman is obviously an idiot and caught up in some cultural belief that doesn't have anything to do with the christian doctrines but some ridiculous 1950s ideology.
You poor love to have had to sit through her rant. Understand her for what she is and try to move past it.
I like the sound of your MIL(and other in-laws) who showed compassion in her response to your distress.
Hugs to you hun.

dusty

Oh Holly...that is so appalling...

I'm a Christian and have never come across teaching like that...

I'm so sorry you had to sit through such insensitive, inaccurate teaching...

I agree...I think God would have been cringing...

Wishing you all the very very best...

Holly, I did not read all the replies, but as I was reading I thought of something and would just like to say. I believe in God and that if he would like you to have a baby, you would be blessed with one naturally, BUT if you can't have one naturally, would he not have made man stupid enough not to do IVF?? IM, he made man smart so that we can help ourselves and people around us. I feel that we must praise God for the ability to help dr make babies for people who can't concieve naturally.

I think that woman is probably the most insensitive person on earth and that she read in the bible, only what she would like to belive.

I really hope He give you your second child and ps on the asking - God don't have rules about that. You can ask what you want, when you want and how you want, He just don't always give as you would like.

:hug: to you and DH. You are in my prayers.

oh how awful!!! that woman must be so judgemental!!! (well, IS judgemental!) you poor thing.. i bet you wanted to say a few words to her afterwards... and it would have been worse having everyone coming up saying stuff to you afterwards like maybe you arent asking enough etc etc... how awful for you :hugs: sorry...
i am a christian (not religious though IYKWIM) but i have heard enough to know what the bible is about etc and i've never heard of that in the bible... what the?!? thats just not right... to stand there and say some ppl dont deserve a baby and others do.. thats just ludicrous....
(well, i'm sure some ppl dont deserve babies with the way ppl abuse etc kids but for a lovely couple like yourselves who clearly yearn for a baby, then its so wrong of that woman to judge)

Holly don't waste another second thinking about it, or her. She got what she wanted and that was to devestate you and anyone else that does'nt fit her agenda. It always amazes me how these people can call themselves devoted Christian, religious whatever!!! Often they are the most nasty, self centred people with no compassion who, when ever it suits take something from the bible and twist it with their warped mind set to whatever suits them. I'm mad, I grew up with this kind of thinking it's no wonder I am not a practising Christian. Try to forget it as hard as it may be. Pam.

Holly,
I am so mad with all that was said to you. So basically what was said was that if we are not blessed by god to have kids we don't deserve them - I WANT TO SCREAM AT THAT ONE - so i guess all those drug addicts that have kids deserve them do they? Or the parents that abuse their own kids deserve them do they? What a load of BULL@@@T!
I am so livered at all of that - you did so well to hold it together - i know if it were me i would have given them all a piece of my mind - i think all of us TTC have asked god to be blessed with kids whether we are religious or not im sure we have all had that conversation with him - good luck hun and don't let people like this play on your mind they are just not worth it - feel sorry for them is all i can say.

Thankyou so much for all of your support, ladies!!!
Sometimes it just feels like we've been doing this for so long... and yearning for this for so long that you start to feel like you're being paranoid taking things personally..... I'm so glad it wasn't me making a big deal out of nothing!!
I probably wouldn't have been as upset had it have been a stranger who said the service (actually, thinking about it, I probably would have!).. But for it to be DH's Aunty - Who knows exactly our situation... It just shows what a cruel woman she is.

Not only was there myself who has trouble TTC... But honestly, how does she know how many others she may have offended in the same situation??!!! There were definately other couples there who are childless... who knows whether or not its by choice????!!!!

Thankyou so much for your words of support... Nice to know it was worth being upset over!!!

Love Holly
xxx :D

Oh My God (who is evidently not the same one that DH's Aunty beleives in),And I thought we were living in the 21st century. You poor girl, and what amazing self-control you have. I'm afraid I wouldn't have been able to help myself, I'd have interrupted the service with, "Does that include child abusers and crack addicts? " when she said the bit about God giving 'deserving' people children. Seriously, the woman is dangerous and shouldn't be aloud to speak in public with opinions like that!
Sienna

Arrrrrrrr, people like that make me so mad. So do they believe that if someone has, say, kidney failure, that that's gods way of saying you aren't deserving enough to live? Arrrrrr. And to know exactly what you have been going through. It wouldn't taken a lot of strength not to go up there and gouge her eyes out.

Holly, big *hugs* for you!

I would have been livid also, just fuming. I've heard some wild things as well, especially from people who claim that they get i all from the bible, so I know EXACTLY how upsetting it would have been.

You are definately deserving to be a mummy, and it will happen eventually!

Oh Holly, that's just awful! I'm not surprised you're upset. Children are a blessing, but you already know that as you have a little boy! But as for what she said...!!

I wonder how she reconciles that ppl who live together before marriage have children? Or someone who is single has a child? Not to mention all those who abuse their children..!

I take it she wouldn't have dedicated our DD... We had her christened at our local Anglican church, and she was conceived and born outside of wedlock (still haven't gotten around to it). There was no problem with our church though, and you would think we have the same God... (although our minister would dearly love to marry us soon!).

I would have assumed the principle of loving your neighbour and recognising God's compassion for those in difficult circumstances would kind of override an interpretation that you just don't know how to pray for a baby properly or you don't deserve one. Stupid woman.

*hugs*

I agree, God would have cringed, to say the least. What on Earth could have motivated her to say such a thing? Would she like to be treated in such a judgemental manner? I can think of more examples in the bible condemning HER behaviour than women enduring IVF!!! "Love thy neighbour as yourself" springs to mind...

If you have the strength I would write her a letter. She can't continue going around citing such nonsense! I wouldn't try to clarify biblical statements as they are notoriously able to be taken out of context. I would simply reveal your pain. If she was any kind of Christian she would be terribly upset to know that she could have hurt you so much. You might find that putting your anguish into words is healing too. Maybe just something to consider. I agree, imagine how many other people in her audience could be suffering in silence. She needs to be made accountable. Just a suggestion... just a way that you could turn a terrible negative into a postive.

Oh and for the record I believe that God has absolutely nothing to do with whether you conceive or not. However i also believe that life is a bit like a spiritual bootcamp... situations such as these can either strengthen your character or make you weak and bitter. Be strong:hug:

ETA: Jennifer: you read my mind!!! Just saw your post... posted at the same time LOL

Holly,
This started out as a story that made me mad but in the end it's made me realise that there are so many people who don't feel like that at all. And we are the ones who are going to be bringing up the next generation of new and more tolerant and open minded kiddies...
So, yay for all of us!!! In the future let's hope no-one has to listen to what you were forced to listen to.
Jo

here here jo! :clap::clap:

Mmm,

I wonder whether if she was struck with a severe illness or serious injury whether she would decline advanced medical care on the grounds that if she couldnt get better without it then a) she clearly just didnt have what it takes to get better and didnt DESERVE to get better or b) that she just hadnt asked Jesus the right way if she could please get better...:angry:


Puhleese!

Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry you had to be subjected to that, that is just awful behaviour no matter how you look at it.
It astounds me that someone with such an obvious lack of compassion can in the next breath call themselves a Christian.
I hope you get your much wanted, and much deserved baby soon :hugs:

Holly,
I can't beleive anyone would say that to you, that is simply rude. I am very proud of you for keeping it together so your nephew had a great day. I totally agree with leasha i probablly would have gone up there and tackled her hahahaha. Well done and don't let her comments get you down, you do what you have to do and don't worry about what a silly old bird has to say about it :)

Hi Holly

I have only just read your post and cannot believe that in the 21st century people still think like that! Relative or not, you need to distance yourself physically and mentally from this person in the future - you do not need narrow minded, hypocritical, nasty people in your life, regardless of their motivations, intentions or explanations. Life is too short to have those people around. I am sure many other people at your nephew's celebration will be thinking the same thing. People like her just make us stronger because that is who we are, without hiding behind any rubbish from the bible! Well done on holding it together and remember these sort of people want a reaction - good on you for not giving it to her! You are an amazing lady and an inspiration to many of us here at BB!!

Cherylxxxx