How to help her sleep longer at night?

Hi there,

Just looking for some ideas on how to help my daughter sleep longer at night! She is almost 5 months old and wakes every 2 or 3 hours overnight, which, as you can imagine is reallly starting to make me feel like a zombie as she wont settle without booby then it takes me a while to fall back to sleep myself so I am sleeping in 1 and 2 hour blocks...

Any how, my question.. basically.. is there anything I can do to get her to sleep for a longer time over night?

I've tried relaxing baths with lavender and stuff, massages, extra feed (EBM in a bottle) before bed, calming music .... but she still just wakes every couple hours. The ECHN told me to get hubby to comfort her at night, but he I doubt he will as he has to work and doesnt want to get up in the middle of the night.

Any ideas?

I know not all are open to it but is co-sleeping a option?
Isla is 8 months old & we co-sleep. Makes it much easier. I don't even have the cot up anymore.

thanks Fiona, I thought co-sleeping would help too but she just wakes exactly the same when I co-slept. :( which is sad because I like co-sleeping but she wakes up my hubby and he hates that.

Thanks Mads, I might have a look at the No cry sleep solution. Hopefully my local library has it.

Karina,

It's not much fun when they wake their mums up all night long is it....we went through this for a very looooong time and things are only getting a bit better now....when we went and stayed with my parents for a few weeks, my Mum said she would get up to comfort Rylee to try and change the pattern of her waking all the time - but Rylee just wouldn't go back to sleep for my Mum - screamed the house down, just wanted me :(!! I waited until Rylee was 6 months before I started getting worried about her feeding all hours of the night as I have heard physiologically (sp?) they still need food during the night until they are 6 months...(someone correct me if I am wrong)...what about if you wait a couple of minutes and see if she will resettle as you going in may wake her even more, maybe she is just having a bit of a whinge in her sleep?? There are a few good books - Pinky McKay's books - Sleeping Like a Baby, Dr Sears The Baby Sleep Book, Anni Gethin & Beth McGregor - Helping Your Baby to Sleep.

Good Luck & sorry I havn't been much help.
It does get better - this is what I keep telling myself and it has - just little by little I am seeing an improvement.
Laurin:)

I co-sleep; only way for me to get to sleep after feeding. DH sleeps in the nursery and won't get up at night.

Can't help too much as DS is still waking a LOT, but a massage/aromatherapy specialist told me the lavender that sends you to sleep is bad for babies; therefore you either use a product you shouldn't or a baby product, which contanis stimulating lavender! Also, some babies are stimulated by massage.

I have started to introduce a bottle of hungry baby formula at night to fill DS's tum - he will go for a bit longer, but not too much longer. If it is just hunger it may help you. I didn't want to give bottles, but I also want sleep and had been running out of milk at 3am before I added in one bottle, so it's worth it.

We had the same thing happen with DS (now 12 months) from the time he was about 4 months, until about 7 1/2 months, when I could take no more. We booked into a residential 'sleep school' and did the whole 'controlled comforting' thing as Mads said, and worked a treat for us. Yes it is an extremely hard thing to do, but I needed some sleep!!!!

He is by no means now a 'perfect sleeper' now, but he goes to bed at 7pm (in his own cot) and will usually wake at about 1am for a quick feed and then at 5am for a quick feed and then up for the day at 7am. A big improvement on the 40 min wakings all night every night.:lol:

When his wakings first started at 4 months, I thought he would get better with age, but he just got progressively worse, so I thought I had no choice. I am glad with the decision we made and no harm done to him!!

Good luck

I am really in two minds about the controllled comforting thing. I will have to read about it more and do some more research about it because I am just still not sure.

Ryn, really (re the lavender)?? I never knew that.. I was using it because it is in the Johnsons Baby Bedtime Bath stuff we have.. maybe I should try something else hey. Maybe that is why she gets all excited.. it stimulates her?

Laurin, I have just places a bid on ebay for one of those books you mentioned!! I hope I win, lol. I heard the same thing re needing food during the night until 6 months of age, but then I get people saying to me things like "oh, are you STILL feeding her at night" and the ECHN seemed very surprised that I still feed her over night.

Ryn - thanks for the info re the lavender - I have been putting some in Rylee's room at night - will stop doing it.
Karina - If I had a dollar for every person who said to me "are you STILL feeding at night" I would be a very rich person - I figure if she's hungry, she's hungry - and if someone (adult or baby) is hungry then there is no way they will go back to sleep. Claire is not even 5 months yet - I think she may still need a bit of food overnight to get her through, though I may be wrong and some babies don't - and you definitely don't want to know about the babies who sleep through from the day they come home in hospital (do they actually exist????). The only other thing if you want to try and stop the feeding overnight is to only feed the alternate times she wakes up but if she relies on booby to get back to sleep this may be a bit difficult. The Annie Gethin book - Helping your baby to sleep really explains why in fact babies do wake up and why they are programmed to - it is interesting and kinda helped me stopped feeling a little bit annoyed when I would get woken up 10 times a night.

Laurin :)

Laurin

mads, you probably will get shot down, just wait for it!
it is really hard to listen to your baby cry, but i am of the belief that if they are never given the chance to settle themselves, then how are they ever going to ever learn to settle themselves...? sure they will learn it eventually, but maybe not for a long long long time, like when they are 2 or something! (or you may get lucky and one night they have miraculously discovered how to do it) if you are patient then there is no problem. i don't believe in leaving your baby to cry so that they feel abandoned, but a bit of grizzling and protesting while they learn that 2-3 hourly feeds in the middle of the night are not on offer anymore isn't going to emotionally ruin them (just what i believe).

that is just my opinion and im not starting a debate on controlled crying as i don't completely advocate it, im just offering my opinion. i think every baby needs to be given the chance to learn to settle themselves if you are expecting them to settle themselves... IYKWIM.

my DD is 4 months and gets her last feed at 10.30pm, if she wakes in the night which she usually does around 3am, then i take her into bed with me until her next feed whenever we wake, usually between 6-8am. its not ideal as we don't sleep as well as we would if we were on our own, but at least she knows that night time is for sleeping not eating....

good luck... at 5 months i'd say it probably isn't a hunger issue (assuming she is getting loads of milk during the day) it may be more of a sleep association issue, ie she thinks the way she needs to go back to sleep is to have booby first... if thats all she has ever known. girls in my mothers group do things like read a story before being put down to bed, so it isn't booby then bed, if that makes sense.... so bubs doesn't associate booby with bed.

they are all so different and really what works for one isn't going to work for another... but if it were me i would definitely try to prolong feeding her in the middle of the night as 2-3 hourly sounds like what you would do for a newborn, not a 5 month old? does she go a long stretch at all without food? usually they will go one long stretch (Maybe 5 hours) and you can sort of help this happen when you want it to, ie in the middle of the night...

okay again will say this is just in my experience what i have learnt and im not saying this is gospel for all babies, just offering up what i have learnt in case there is something in there that works for you. good luck xx

Hehe kick DH out of bed, and let DD sleep there :) - joking...

I've heard of offering babies a bottle of water at night, maybe you can do this at alternatve waking times... ive also been told, But at night time, don't talk to thewm, and keep the room fairly dark, so they can establish betwen bed time/day time

HTH n u get some sleep soon :)

Laurin, i get so frustrated too when people gasp and say 'oh are still feeding at night? my *insert name here* slept through from 3 weeks'.. well I dont frickin' care if he slept through, you have no idea what my daughter needs so shut up!!! LOL and yeah, boy would I be rolling in cash if I had a dollar for each person who commented on feeding overnight!

I dont talk to her when I feed her over night because if I do, she thinks it is play time. She does go back to sleep relatively easily most of time. Its just the waking for an hour every 2 hours.

Do you think that by boobying her back to sleep, she is making some sort of association with it?? Like, that she has to be boobied before she can go back to sleep?

Karina - Emma is right the boobying back to sleep would be a sleep association Claire has - do you booby her to sleep in the day - maybe try putting her to sleep during the day drowsy but awake and then do this for her last feed at night and then when she wakes during the night she hopefully won't need the boob to get herself back to sleep - does she have a comfort toy - little blankie or teddy that could maybe take the place of the boob when she wakes.....yeah I don't mind a bit of grizzling but my DD does full blown hysterics and I really can't cope with that. I am going to have a look through some of my no cry books and see if they have any other tips for you.
Laurin :)

I still feed my DD back to sleep overnight, usually twice and sometimes 3 times. From about 3 to 8 months she was a regular twice a night feeder and then I tried to cut out the night feeds, oh it all fell in a heap then and the next two months were awful for the nights (up 3 to 5 times). This last couple of weeks she's back to mostly twice a night and I feed her because I'm the one who responds to her cries first. She rarely if ever settles for me without a feed at night and I'll often follow that with a back rub is she is still not settled. Her dad can do pat/cuddle her back to sleep, but he's much slower to get out of bed!
I've had mixed success with that controlled comforting however I will often become just as upset as DD with that.....in the end I just resign myself to sleep debt.

My son can go to sleep alone during the day, but not at night. It's really frustrating! He's only just started to go to sleep in his cot, and that's with a bottle. Babies do learn to settle without crying it out - OK, DS learns later than the so-called "wonder babies" how to do it, but he's better than any of them so I don't mind.

People who do control cry find it works for them; I won't knock how anyone else chooses to parent, but I will say it isn't necessary. DS can re-settle himself without crying too (he hums to himself, maybe lets out one cry but that's it); it does take a bit longer to learn but it does happen.

No, I dont really booby her to sleep during the day unless she is super duper cranky. She only has two small sleeps during the day and the rest of the time she plays and we talk and sing, or I just leave her to play on her own and when she gets bored she often falls asleep. I usually put her into her cot tired but still awake and she can usually just go to sleep on her own. Its only really at night that I booby her to sleep, as it just relaxes her and seems to help her wind down.

I jhave recently introduced a comfort toy. It sounds stupid, but its a cloth book. She loves this thing and she will hug it, wave it around and suck on it, and then fall asleep with it, so I suppose that is what is her comfort toy for now.

Well I just got the Pinky Mckay book - Sleeping like a baby. Hopefully its got some tips for me. Going to look on ebay and my (very crappy and small) local library for the parenting books there.

thanks so much for all your responses. Its nice to know other peoples babies are waking over night at a similar age to Claire. I suppose I just freaked out at the commment the ECHN gave when I said I breastfeed every 2-3 hours day and night and the fact that other people make me feel like I have a freak baby because she *still* wakes over night... Claire definately seems more normal and youve all given me some good stuff to think about.

Karina- just a quick thought - apparently the amount of sleep a baby gets during the day can effect their sleep overnight. If they don't have enough sleep in the day then they can be restless overnight. You said Claire is sleeping 2 hours during the day in 1 hour naps? Are you able to get her to sleep more during the day? I just wonder as there have been a number of times when Grace has had a terrible day sleep (she doesn't sleep much in the day anyway but still has at least a 30 min nap in between each feed) and then she has been unsettled overnight. In fact the nights that she has slept great are often the days that she has had a big sleep in the afternoon. Not sure if this is the problem just thought i would mention my thoughts. Good luck.

Rachel, I just read the exact same thing like 10 minutes ago in one of my books!! I'm so glad you mentioned it too. I have given it some thought and I dont really have anything to compare to as she has never really been much of a day-sleeper, kwim?
I will definately start trying to get her to have longer naps during the day. I have no idea how, but I'll have to try working something out.

I still get up to DD a couple of times a night, I have been alternating BF and rocking to sleep the last couple of weeks. Depending on the time between that is,if as been over 4 hours then will BF.

Also about a month ago I started waiting a little long to see if she would but herself to sleep (you can usually tell by the cry) because she was waking every couple of hours still. It was no longer than 5/7 minutes and she was back asleep. This was only by accident the first time because I detoured to the bathroom.

In the last week she has slept though the night twice.

Good luck.

Hi Karina, thought I'd post because night-waking is always on my mind ;)
I have always winged about Natalie's sleep patterns, and in hindsight, I had it soooo good until about 4 months. Then she started waking more frequently, say 3-5 times a night.
Here are some of my thoughts...
Firstly, I'm led to believe that often babies who sleep ok in their first months of life can become more wakeful at around 4 months. This leads me to think partly it is developmental, and certainly her pattern of night-waking has chopped and changed over this time, perhaps due to developments she was going through.
Secondly, you have my blessing to punch in the mouth anyone who seems incredulous at you feeding a 5 month old baby overnight. How utterly ridiculous. I'm told that 5-month-old babies who go to tresssillian residential sleep school still have a feed overnight. 5 months old is still very little. And I reckon people who say their baby slept through every night from their first night home from hospital are not being entirely truthful.
Thirdly, regarding associations with sleep and booby - definitely true IMO. Since I have stopped feeding Natalie to sleep, I think her sleeping pattern has improved. Her day sleeps tend to be longer if she self-settles, and I try to feed her at least 20mins before bedtime, and put her to bed awake to self-settle for the night. Sometimes she only goes for 2 hours, but sometimes she will go for 3.5-4 hours which is IMO great. (BTW, she didn't start to self-settle til about 5 months old, and only occasionally. It is only in the last couple of weeks that she'll self-settle for day sleeps more often than not. Before I used to pat her to sleep to settle her.) She will only settle with booby overnight tho. Part of me believes she is thirsty, but if I'm totally honest, I think she needs booby to get back to sleep. Not sure how to get through this...
Lastly, in regard to the day sleeping affecting night sleeping: I was a great sceptic! I had a thread not too long ago about this. However lately I have found it to be true to a point for us. If Natalie has two 2-2.5 hour sleeps in one day, she does tend to wake for a play in the night. However, if she has one 1 hour and one 2 hour sleep during the day, her night sleeping is as good as it gets. Today we were out most of the day, and she only had 10 mins this morning and 40 mins this afternoon :( She fell into bed at 6:30 (usual bedtime is 7) and woke up at 7:40, resettled herself after a minute or two, then woke for a feed (ie wouldn't settle herself) at 8:45. This is not particularly good for her, and I'm blaming it on the small amount of sleep she had today.
I know this is long-winded, and TBH probably more for my benefit than yours ;) but know that you're not alone in having a wakeful baby. I'm lucky in that I am able to get to sleep easily after a night feed, so for me its a no-brainer. I just feed her. (I tried settling with cuddles for the first wake-up, which did work for a while, but no longer unfortunately.) For you, I can totally understand your frustration - having very little sleep overnight and not getting a decent nap out of her during the day in which to catch up on some zzz's yourself must be beyond exhausting. If I were in your position, sleep means that much to me that I would probably seek some help. Tressillian have a phone help-line and I have found them to be great on the two occasions I have phoned them. They have made some helpful suggestions.
Hoping you can find some resolution soon. Sleep deprivation sucks. All the best as you work it out.

When Cooper was 8 weeks old, he started to sleep for 12 hours a night, and at 12 weeks, started to wake up once, then by the time he was about 5 months he was waking sometime 3 times a night. I also breastfed, and I also SO know what it feels like to be so exhausted like yourself.

This continued up until he was about 9 months. I tried everything - and was on the verge of going to Tresillian. I also rang them so many times, and they said it was most likely just behavioural. Plus he was average in weight, and I had plenty of milk, so I knew there wasn't a problem there.I tried control comforting which only worked for a few days (and I hated it)

I asked many people about whether formula may make a difference, and so many said no.

By the time he was 9 months, I was ready to stop breastfeeding, and as soon as he was on formula he started to sleep SOOO much better! He still liked a 10pm feed, but other than that, he stopped waking in the night.

Now saying that, I know every baby is different, but for us, formula made a difference. It is harder to digest, therefore keeps them fuller for longer.

TBH, had I known that was all it was, I would've either a. just kept breastfeeding and relaxed knowing it wasn't behavioural, or b. put him on formula if I was really desperate for sleep.

Hope this helps.

Karina

I put Rylee on formula from about 10 months - in the last couple of weeks her sleeping has improved - the best has been last night she was unsettled till about 10 pm but then slept through until 5.20 am (so she went from 7 pm till 5.20 am without a feed) - this is the longest ever. I think previously IMO she had been waking for comfort feeds but now she knows she won't get booby anymore she only wakes when she really needs it....so a behavioural issue - now I don't want to say formula babies sleep better - I have heard all kinds of stories but my mum kept saying to me to just put her on formula and she will sleep better but I dug my heels in as I really wanted to keep bfing for as long as possible - but in Rylee's case she seemed to need booby for comfort. ONe of my girlfriends bubs is fully breastfed and she sleeps 12 hours a night so it is all just dependent on the individual bub.

Anyway, not that I have really helped you but just another angle I guess. These bubs are quirky little people aren't they.
Laurin :)

I've heard the formula theory too. I have tried to introduce a formula feed before bedtime as the last feed of the day, also at the 9:30-10pm feed. She won't have it.
I suppose if I were desperate, I could wean her totally onto the bottle, by starving her until she takes it, but it would mean giving up breastfeeding for me, I think. I haven't been able to express for quite a while, so it'd mean either dried up boobs and/or mastitis in my case.
I just love the convenience and all the benefits of breastfeeding moreso than the chance that being formula fed will help her sleep, KWIM? That's my take on the issue... FWIW.
How has Claire's sleeping been this week?

I have heard the same thing about forumla, but I am a bit scared to try it incase she likes forumla better than my breast milk. I like breastfeeding her so I dont want to stop before I really need to..? I also talked to the ECHN and she seems to think that forumla wont her sleep longer and that its just a marketing thing from the forumla companies to try to get tired exhausted mums to buy their products!! LOL

Amy, I was so proud of Claire, she slept a whole 5 hours in one go the other night. All i did differently was to lay down in my bed with her and let her booby for as long as she wanted to (it was like an hour and a half!) then I stroked her tummy, and she slept for 5 hours. Dont know if I can do that every single night though!

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I am a bit scared to try it incase she likes forumla better than my breast milk. I like breastfeeding her so I dont want to stop before I really need to..?

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I was pretty desparate, so I tried it even though I felt the same way. Turns out she doesn't like formula anyway. And because I don't want to give up breastfeeding yet, I'm not going to push the bottle on her. I totally understand where you're coming from there. If Claire's a real booby baby like Natalie, she'd probably be the same and not know what on earth to do with a bottle LOL. It is actually really funny to watch... Natty sort of chews on the teat and gets this startled look on her face when milk squirts into her mouth LOL, then she promptly spits it out and gives her hungry cry (as if to say, 'what the hell are you playing at, woman? Get your breasts out, for crying out loud!!!).
WTG Claire for sleeping 5 hours in a row!!! (You know in many peoples' books 5 hours is 'sleeping through'?) Did you get any sleep yourself, Karina? Or were you lying there waiting for her to wake up, LOL? I do hope it becomes a regular thing for you both.

Amy, i did get more sleep thn normal but I kept waking up!! Maybe becuse I am so used to frequently waking, i dont know. I kept waking up and waiting for her to wake too.

i now think it is just that she feels isolated when we're not with her. She sleeps much better with us in our bed and luckily hubby is happy for her to be there for the time being.

We have tried a bottle (of ebm, not formula) nd she just plays with it. She insists on holding it herself but then she'll just lick it and not suck it, or just hold it and look at dh. Maybe she just doesnt understand wht to do with it, mybe ebm that has been frozen and thawed tastes/smells differnt...

Sounds like Claire is booby baby like Natalie! How cute about her rection to bottles. She prefers it fresh from the tap lol.