my disappointment...

ok i need to get this out.

I had no choice in my c/s. Mason was a footling breech but because i was a public patient, it had to be a c/s. After a while, I grew to the idea.

Just days before he was born, I got some GREAT advice from fellow BB members about birth plans and preferences and I was really looking forward to implementing things.

Imagine my disappointment when none of these were possible :(

*I was unable to have the screen dropped
*I was unable to wait before clamping the cord
* I was unable to have DH cut the cord
* I was unable to hold my baby immediately after delivery
* there was no skin-to-skin contact
*I was told NO BABIES in recovery
* I was ALONE in recovery :crying:

Im sure there is more...but i cant remember at the moment.

My doc advised all the details about trial by scar to me the other day and Im scared about having to make the decision with baby no #2.

I am just so lucky that I wanted this baby more than anything in this world, because I am scared at how much worse I would have felt at his birth.

I dont know who to blame...the public health system? the hospital?

Danni, were you ever told why you couldn't have what you wanted? Because what you've listed there doesn't seem like an unreasonable list to me. Even though Mason was so longed for and gives you some consolation, I still think that a little bit of courtesy should have been extended to you and Dale, especially things like lowering the screen and Dale cutting the cord.

Thanks Sherie...

Im pretty sure no one explained the reasons why not to me.

I had planned to ask the obs and midwives at my last appt before his scheduled c/s, but as you may know, Mason decided to arrive early and spoil our plans ;)

So I was asking all these questions as they were wheeling me into the theatre! Im pretty sure it was just "no, we cant do that...no, we cant do that either etc etc"

I know at the time with everything going on because he was a bit earlier than expected that you and Dale may not have been able to push for certain things to happen, but that's no excuse for the blatant 'no's". How does Dale feel about some of the things, like not being able to cut the cord or be with you in recovery?

to be honest...we havent really had a chance to talk about it together. Im sure deep down he was disappointed also, but was just happy to finally be a dad.

He spent most of that first night with Mason in the SCN...I know it was hard for him to be torn between the two of us though as I wasnt allowed to visit the SCN :( Thats another disappointment too..

If you had a birth plan - with your ideal requests - this should have been discussed with the obs/midwifes etc before you went in for the c/s. It sounds like Mason decided to come early and the birth plan wasn't available or implemented.

Did you discuss any of your requests with the hospital staff before going into labour?
Did you take the birth plan with you when you went to the hospital & was it with you in the operating room?

If its "no" to either of these questions - then you can't really blame anyone for what happened. Its sad, and very unfortunate - but I don't think laying blame on others is the answer.

When they were prepping you for the c/s... did you vocally ask them to lower the screen? If they said no... you should have got an explanation right then. But if you didn't ask - then the usual procedure is to have the screen up.

As you were alone in recovery - I'm assuming Dale was with Mason. I too was alone in recovery because my DH was with Shaun. Personally - I preferred DH to be with Shaun rather then him be alone. So who would you rather be alone... you whilst your recover - or Mason ? (yes, I realise that the ideal situation is to have all three of you together - but many public hospitals just don't allow babies in the recovery room).

I wrote a full birth plan. I have a private ob - and took it to my appointments a couple of months prior to giving birth. I discussed the requests with him. Worked out what was feasable & what wasn't.

Then I went into labour... and I gave my DH instructions to bring that & the contact list inside... But he left both in the car.
As a result - he wasn't able to cut the cord... because we didn't have the birth plan with us for all the staff to view. And although I had discussed it with my ob, I ended up having an emergency c/s - so I imagine he was more focussed on birthing my baby rather then the things I had written down (and not bought with me). I certainly don't blame the doctor or any of the staff for what happened. And the c/s happened so quickly, little Shaun was out and having photos on my chest before I even realised I'd been cut open!

I'm sorry you are disappointed about certain aspects of the birth of Mason.

I just think that trying to find someone to blame is not best way to deal with it. Although I'm sure others will be quick to refute that.

Hopefully you will have # 2 and be able to have all your requests. Maybe you could go private... or pay for a doula... and ensure you have your birth plan with you at all times and discuss it with all the people you come in contact with at the hospital.

Danni sweets :hugs: That is really disappointing that none of your wishes were respected, even the 'easy' ones such as Dale cutting the cord.

Whilst my c/s wasn't really an emergency, it wasn't even an option until about a half hour before it happened - but they still agreed to let the cord pulsate, DH cut the cord, and DH and Jambin were with me in recovery. Your requests were not unreasonable, so I can understand why you are feeling disappointed with how things turned out.

Just remember, even if you decide to have a c/s for #2, it doesn't have to be the same as this one was for you. Even going public, you might be be able to negotiate in advance, find out what the hospital policies are about certain things (forewarned is forearmed), you might even choose to use a different public hospital.

Danni,

I am so sorry that you feel so much disappointment. I had an emergency c-sect and some of what you have listed above, happened to me. I was in a private hospital and had an OBS, so perhaps some of what you have listed is standard procedure for hospitals in general? (I didn't have a birth plan at all and was happy to make decisions as the need arose, so a very different view on what you wanted with the birth of Mason)
I have listed below the same occurences in our c-sects.
*The screen was up - I was not asked either way but wouldn't have wanted it dropped
*I was unable to wait before clamping the cord - Again I wasn't asked but didn't specifically want this.
* I was unable to hold my baby immediately after delivery - Same but I understood that the Paed wanted to check over bubs straight away and DH was with DD then, so I was ok with this.
* No skin-to-skin contact - until I was transferred into my room b/c bubs was with DH & Paeditrician.
* I wasn't alone in recovery a nurse was with me at all times. I am unsure if you meant alone with nobody or separated from your DH & Mason. If you were with nobody, then that is really terrible.
* I did ask if I could breasfeed DD in recovery and was assured I could but DD was with Paed & DH and I was only in recovery for a maximum of 20 minutes. I was a bit dissappointed about this.
I think you should have a chat to DH about this b/c he may have some issues too and if need be speak to a professional to further debrief.

Hugs to you Danni

Danni, I just went and re-read Mason's birth story and I know why quite a few of the requests weren't carried out.

Because he was stuck and they had a bit of trouble getting him out they probably didn't think you needed to see that going on - both while they made the incision bigger and also the manouvering to get his head out. Then because of that and he wasn't crying or anything, they sometimes call the baby 'flat' and in cases like that they don't like to let the cord pulsate (which is the bitter irony as there is evidence to suggest that leaving the cord intact actually helps and not hinders baby) and probably why Dale couldn't cut the cord.

Then because of all that happening and with him needing to go to SCN they couldnt' let you have the time you wanted and needed immediately after the birth with him.

I know that this isn't going to change anything but it does give an insight into why things happened like they did I guess. With Dale not seeming to be concerned about it, well men see it differently to women sometimes - all he saw was that both of you were fine and that was all that mattered to him at the time. If he has had time to think or talk about it since then he may realise that he feels differently about it.

Whatever you decide to do for your future births, you now have the gift of hindsight and can put into place a birthplan that really suits your situation. I really feel for you that you didn't get the outcomes you wanted, and am I right in thinking that you aren't looking to place blame as such, but you just want answers as to why things happened like they did, which if you can resolve it, will go a long way in helping you heal emotionally from this birth?

great post Sherie...

It is a great explanation of why a hospital has done certain things... for the safety and emotional wellbeing of both mother and baby.

I hope that # 2 will not be as traumatic for you Danni. As Cherie has said forewarned is forearmed.

Hugs to you....

I can understand your disappointment. I think it's great that you are expressing this now, and questioning so as to feel more empowered for next time. Hopefully everything will be more straight forward next time and you won't have the same complications. I hope that you do achieve your ideal birth down the track.

oh Danni *hugs* its really hard. I think finding a way to debrief would be fantastic. In Brisbane there is a session called birthtalk and it helps women express what happened to them & there are doulas and midwives there to help explain things. I think looking into something like that where you are might be helpful. You may be able to find out by phoning a doula in your area. *hugs* its so hard to process all that goes on especially when it seems as though choices are thrown out the window.

Thanks guys. It has certainly helped to get it out.

I had a few minutes with DH while I was cooking dinner before and he said it all happened so quickly, and he just forgot to have "feelings" iykwim? he was just happy that we were both ok and that we were finally a family.

Men really are different:rolleyes:

I had my preferences jotted down and in my pregnancy book ready for my appt on the wednesday. Mason decided to be born on the Sunday before...

So I hadn't had a chance to ask any of these questions to see if anything was possible. So this is why the birth plan was not brought in with me to the theatre.

Sherie, in regards to the complications...they actually said no before i even got to theatre, so thats why im still a bit confused.

I am certainly going to try a different hospital next time. There is a lovely small public hospital in the town that I live in but they wouldnt let me birth there because I was "overweight".

Now I have lost some weight so fingers crossed I can keep it off and have bub #2 there. It is so much more friendlier and I am sure they can help me fulfil some of my wishes if not all of them.

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forewarned is forearmed

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yes!! how true

And no, Im not looking for someone to blame as such. But surely its not my fault? It just helps me deep down to know there is nothing else I could have done...blah blah...I cant even explain what I'm trying to say...

Danni i know how you feel this happened the same way when i had Kimberley.

*I was unable to have the screen dropped - They only dropped the screen when i had Alex and Eleanor.
*I was unable to wait before clamping the cord
* I was unable to have DH cut the cord
* I was unable to hold my baby immediately after delivery - The only one i held was Alex. Kimberley was shown to me and taken straight away to SCN and Eleanor i was too sick to hold her.
* there was no skin-to-skin contact - I only had skin contact with Eleanor once i felt better and in recovery. Alex was taken away after my first hold.
*I was told NO BABIES in recovery - Not sure why they told you this but if Mason needed speical care they wouldn't have let him in as they would have needed to look at him.
* I was ALONE in recovery - I was alone for Kimberley and Alexander but with Eleanor DH was allowed in. It's the first time he has seen me so ill.

I hope you are able to work through all this.

Danni hun it's far from being your fault. What else could you have done in the situtation? Pull the screen down yourself, jumped off the table & grabbed Mason for a cuddle.

You did nothing wrong.

I hate that when births don't go as we planned we feel the need to blame ourselves. I know exactly what you mean about knowing there was nothing else you could have done. I spent a good year going over all the things I could have done differently. In the end though talking about it with Cailin, both in person & on MSN over a few months was what made me realise I did all I could. You need to talk it through to get past it.

Maybe there is some hospital policy that says the things you requested are not the *norm* for caesarean births & that's why you got the stream of no answers. I have noticed a lot of stories on BB saying that when you have a c/s or a VBAC you generally have to fight hard for what you want. Maybe if you had that appointment & Mason didn't arrive earlier you could have fought for what you wanted. But he didn't & you didn't get that opportunity.

For sure though, without a doubt I say you did the best you could given the circumstances. There was no way that you were going to change their minds whilst lying on a table waiting for surgery. You were there ready to go, what would happen if they said no, it's not like you were going to say "sorry not good enough I'm going to another hospital" IYKWIM.

*hugs*

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jumped off the table & grabbed Mason for a cuddle.

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I should've you know!

I'll never forget them telling me that he was born, and trying so hard to stretch my neck out the side just to get a glimpse...

I couldn't see anything :(

That has got to be the worst feeling ever doesn't it.

As I said there is absolutely nothing you could have done. It's dodgy stupid hospital policy that did that to you & to me & to countless other women that have had caesarean births.

IT JUST PLAIN SUX.

awful isnt it sarah...

why cant all birthing women have it THEIR way? (within reason of course!)

I couldn't agree with your more babe.

Danni - whilst i didnt have a c-section, my first labour went horribly wrong. I had a birth plan, i had details such as 'skin to skin contact' 'breastfeed after clean up',
DH cut cord' etc....but i had a retained placenta, major haemorraging and was whisked away for manual removal. I remember my DH followed me out of the birthing suite to be with me.... all whilst our less than 5 minute little girl was alone in the birthing suite !! ALONE !!!. I told DH to go back in there. This was about 11pm...i didnt feed her/cuddle her till 4am.
DH and myself were deeply, deeply scared by this labour. He was literally left with a crying baby (i dont think he had ever held a baby before) all whilst the midwvies were pushing him to bottle feed (he knew how much i wanted to breastfeed).
Anyway, thats my story, whilst my 2nd labour was a dream come true (2 hr labour, fully dilated once at hossi, 2 pushes, out she comes, no tears etc) my birth of my first daughter still has me thinking some days.....why? why did it go horribly wrong?
I really was lucky to get #2 out of my DH, coz he suffered really bad afterwards.....
I guess lessons can be learnt from our experiences.....

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But surely its not my fault? It just helps me deep down to know there is nothing else I could have done

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IT IS DEFINATELY NOT YOUR FAULT.

But I don't really think it's anyone's fault. Some of it was circumstance. Some of it is hospital policy. And there's not a lot you could have done at that time.

It was the first time you were having a baby. You had no experience of what to do and Mason's early arrival wouldn't have helped the issue either.

There are a number of things that I have learnt from (1) my first birth and (2) suggestions that I have heard on BB.

For example - I had never thought to lower the screen... or ask for the baby to be bought into recovery or to try to breastfeed ASAP. But in 4 months - I'm going to ask for all of those things! And this time I WILL carry my birth plan with me everywhere (and not rely on DH) - so that he can cut the cord. I am having an elective c/s... and now I keep getting the feeling that baby #2 will want to come into the world sooner, and I end up having a VBAC. :lol:

It seems that Mason had a bit of a stressful entry into the world... and hopefully your #2 won't have to experience that. But at the end of the day you have a beautiful little boy. Look forward Danni... think about all the positive and wonderful things that have happened.

XOXO

Big big hugs Danni... I have had a little weep reading your story. Thankyou for sharing it - I hope it has helped.

Sheries post was excellent she explained why and I hope that can help some...

Birth plans I believe are really really important. To have them implemented we have to talk them thru with our careproviders so a place of mediation can happen. Essentially you both have to agree to the "conditions" or the contract so to speak.
Now, when things go smoothly it is often not a problem to implement them. But when there is a hiccup it is sometimes not that easy. I am so sorry that you have been left feeling the feelings you have.
I also understannd the need to blame someone. That's a normal stage of the grief process and what you are experiencing is grief that your birth didn't happen as you had hoped. :hugs:

Maybe in time you can look at it a little differently - or maybe you won't. Next time will be different. If you chose a VBAC I would choose a midwife/doula to go through the prg/birth with you as extra support. If you choose a c/section I would do the same. Advocacy is important as important as the support of someone trained to support women through this experience.

Men do see it differently sometimes. It's the result that is most important. But often for women (I know for me this is true) the process is so intertwined with the outcome so as not to be separated.

Lots of love Danni :hug:

A big Thank you to everyone.

This thread got DH and I talking and he doesnt really remember much about the day and says it is a blur. I feel somewhat the same, but it is an unhappy blur to me.

It has really helped to get all of this out after 3 months (finally!).

As for bub no#2...should we be lucky enough to be blessed with another baby, I have a HUGE decision coming my way. VBAC or no VBAC....now thats another thread :rolleyes:

Glad that you and DH had a chat about it... but I don't think guys feels any of the emotions that women do. I think they just see the outcome (healthy baby & healthy mum) and focus on that. They haven't experienced the actual pain of pregnancy or childbirth, nor understand the disappointment of things not going as you had planned.

Happy that it has helped to get it out. Maybe you can work out a way to turn the negatives into positives... like write something down that says...
"I didn't get to (blah blah) - but I got a beautiful healthy baby"
"I didn't get the things I wanted this time - but I have learnt things for the next time"

And I'm sure there will be a next time - and maybe one after that!
And the next time you won't be a "first time mum".

Like you - I've had to decide VBAC or not. I've gone ECS... but I have a gut feeling that baby will come early and I will be faced with VBAC at that time. It's something I have to discuss with my ob on my next visit.

mbear thanks for posting your traumatic birth it actually made me realise it's not just mum's who have c/s that feel that dissapointment and need support :hugs: big hugs to you!

Danni I really feel for you I know that feeling of bewilderment and blur when birth doesn't go to plan and you just expect that it will happen naturaly. We don't expect to have to have a C so we don't prepare for one which makes it more of a shock :hugs: