DD so very unsettled....

(This is kinda like a vent thread but I am also after help!!)

I feel like I am not satisfying Avaleigh with my milk... Dont most babies have a feed and then go to sleep??!! Well my lil princess is not doing that... and I dont think its the colic that is keeping her awake as she isnt showing any wind signs.... Pretty much she feeds maybe 20 mins on one side, I then give her the other side and she is there for only a few minutes before coming off and 'shutting up shop'. I cuddle her for a little while, put her down. Shes maybe down for 15 mins before she wakes up crying/screaming!! And then about an hour later she is acting like she is hungry again.... Its driving me insane!! Does she really want more or what?! I wouldnt have a clue!! I am thinking of maybe expressing some milk out and give that to her after she done with my breasts but Im not sure if i want too...

Could she be going through a growth spurt thats making her so unsettled??? Should I be feeding her whenever she wants?!! My nipples are sooooo sore!! I do give her a dummy to suck on after a feed and especially in these really cry-ie times so I dont know what she wants at the moment.

And I have the biggest headache too!! I didnt get much sleep last night cause she was feeding so often and then she would just 'play' with my nipple and then start screaming again!!

Any thoughts, advise, help??! Should I maybe express milk out as a top up???

(AHHH!!!)

Big Hugs to you first of all, it can be so hard in these early days.
Its hard to tell with milk supply, is she putting on weight and having plenty wet nappies? The other thing too is its common for them to be unsettled at this stage. I remember at around 3 weeks with Ash she just sort of started crying more, I remember the first 3 weeks being easy she fed, slept etc then all of a sudden she'd have periods of crying. Gave me bit of a shock. At that age they just don't know how to calm themselves the worlds a whole new strange place to them and maybe Avaleigh sees the breast as a comfort. I know with Ash in the early days especially of a evening she could be on my breast more often then she wasn't.
Best thing I can suggest is just to do whatever you find that works to calm her and get you both some sleep. Use the breast, use a baby sling, rock her in the bouncer (our bouncer was a life saver for settling!) Good luck, hope you find something that works.

Yeh she is definitely putting on weight and getting so much bigger. Plenty of wet nappies but not as many dirty nappies as a week ago.

They must turn a corner at 3 wks because thats when Avaleigh started crying so much more!

I just gave her another feed and am now cuddling her and she is asleep. but will probably wake up when i put her down!

:hug: Veronica, you poor thing! I remember how hard it was to know whether Natalie had had enough to drink... I agree with Shell, the wet nappies are the best way for you to tell if she's getting enough.
I can't really remember what we used to do... But I know around this time of night it was always a battle. We did get into a pattern after a while, but there was always a couple of hours of rocking and dancing around with her while she cried, then she'd finally settle.
I did find it reassuring to give Natalie a bottle of EBM before I went to bed. The idea was that DH could give it if he wanted, but he really never did. I gave it for a few weeks until I felt confident that she was taking in a good amount of milk. Our routine sort of went like this:
* Get through all the crying and get her into bed
* She would wake, sometimes only an hour later
* Keep her wrapped and feed EBM from the bottle
* Transfer to bed asleep (when I kept her wrapped, she would fall asleep sucking on the bottle... Same with the overnight feeds - if she needed a change, I'd change her, then wrap and keep her wrapped while feeding)
The first few weeks were really hard. You are doing so very well! The crying is so hard to listen to, I know... Natalie cried *a lot* for the first 6 months of her life. But try to think of it as Avaleigh just expressing herself the only way she knows how. Like, 'Oh, mum, I'm soooooo tired!' or 'Oh, mum, this feeling of milk in my belly is just so weird!' LOL, I know that's corny, but it helped me sometimes to think of it as just her way of talking to me.
Hang in there, Veronica! Hopefully that circadian rhythm will kick in soon :)

Hi Veronica,

Maybe your DD isn't tired / ready to go to sleep. Is it possible to keep her up for a bit (only during the day/early night) and have a chat, sing and play with her. You will notice when she is tired, she will probably turn away from you and make a face, start moving her arms and legs around in a jerky manner and possibly start wingeing.
I am not bf now so I cannot comment on that part for you, but I can remember a midwife telling me when I bf in hospital that bf is not just about feeding for some babies it is also a comfort thing, so maybe she is looking for some comfort from you??? To comfort my DD since I am not bf, I turn her into me like I am bf and pop her arm closest to me under my arm and hold her top arm so she doesn't jerk it around and then wake herself up. I also try to wrap her before I put her down, so I don't wake her up.
HTH

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Hi Veronica,

Maybe your DD isn't tired / ready to go to sleep.

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I actually t hink she is over tired!! I definitely dont think she is sleeping as much as she should be because she has stopped sleeping during the day since she was about a week old. The only way she'll sleep would be in my arms and she only now has started sleeping a few hours a day in her bassinette..

And yeh, she is wrapped up when the evening rolls around but she always tends to get out of it!! I mustnt wrap her tight enough...

Well she was awake again and now i am holding her and she is asleep. I know she just wants to be held, i gotta start making good use of my hug a bub i think!

I may try the EBM, we'll see how the next few days go

Hi there, I know exactly how you feel. I held Charlie 24/7 (that's how it felt) after about 4weeks & it was driving me insane, each time I'd pop him into bed he would wake up & scream. Many tears when DH got home from work!!! I borrowed a book from a friend called "Save our Sleep" by Tizzie Hall & I highly reccomend it!! I was able to realise much easier when he was tired, often he would cry & I would just feed thinking that's what he wanted...no wonder he's a big boy LOL. It really saved me, what you have described above is exactly what we went through & I was very embarrassed when I went out with other Mum's as I held him all of the time & when he got overtired he would scream & not settle.
We just perservered with putting him down each day & walking out of the room...some days he wouldn't last long, but before long he knew what it meant. We also added music & that seems to calm him. I would do this the same time each day & from this I was able to tell by when he fell asleep how long he can stay up before he starts getting tired, this has helped me to capture his tired signs.
It is very hard the first few weeks....big hugs. I've only just got to a comfortable stage going out & am only just starting to think I could do it again, one day.

hi veronica, so sorry to hear that Avaliegh is unhappy atm. Im really no expert but i had a very similar experience with DS who was about 4 months old and formula fed at the time, he would have his whole bottle then 2 hours later he would be screaming for more. It turned out that he was confusing his wind pains for hunger pains as whilst he was feeding his wind pains didn't bother him, but of course the more he drank the more wind he got and the more pain he hwas in. It was a vicious circle which we managed to get out of by slowly stretching out his feed to 3 hourly, we would stretch each bottle out by 10/15 mins til he was at 3 hourly then things started to settle a bit.

I know your experience is a lot different but i thought i'd let you know that it probably isn't your milk that is causing her to be upset as my DS was on formula and was doing a similar thing. Well done on the breastfeeding you are doing a wonderful job. I really hope Avaleigh feel happier and more settled soon, goodluck.

Hugs for you Veronica! It's so hard to know, isn't it? Like the others said, if she is gaining weight and having plenty of wet nappies, then I would say she is getting plenty of milk.

In the early days, Nicholas certainly spent more time on the boob than off it. Especially in the evening. It didn't help my confidence when people would come over and say 'oh is he on the boob again?'. It is completely normal hun, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It will get better, she will get faster at feeding, and have days where she is more settled.

As for the age thing, I can't really comment as Nicholas was prem, but I do remember that he started crying alot more at about 8 weeks, which was when he was 3 weeks corrected, so maybe there's something in it?

As for giving EBM, I personally would stick it out with the BFing for the moment, if you can. We have had to comp feed Nicholas from birth, giving anywhere between 1-6 bottles a day at different stages. It is a pain in the bum, and he is now showing signs of preferring the bottle at times, I think because it's easier for him. This breaks my heart, but I can't do anything about it now. I'm not saying don't ever give her a bottle, but if you can try and stick it out until BFing is well and truly established, maybe after 6 weeks or so, it might be better in the long run. Have confidence in your ability to feed your baby, you can do it! She is a beautiful little girl, who is obviously loving spending time close to her mum. I know it's hard work, and tiring, but try to enjoy it hun.

ETA Yes, I would feed her whenever she wants. She could be doing a bit of growing, and your boobs need to know that she wants more. As for wrapping, I have to wrap Nicholas really firmly or he just wakes himself up all the time. I find big flanellette wraps are best for us, he manages to wriggle out of anything else.

Veronica,

Yes, I remember Rylee would do a cluster feed in the evenings from about 4 - 9 pm - so she was constantly on the boob. I would feed then put her down and then an hour later she would want more, I would think to myself that can't be right, what am I doing wrong? Apparantley, they cluster feed to try and build up a supply for the night, also bf bubs love the comfort of the boob, nice tasting milk, close to mum - who wouldn't?

It is hard...but it goes so quickly and it DOES get better......the crying gets less and less, it really does...you just have to believe in yourself and your bm supply is still being established that is for sure. It all takes time, these little bubs have come from being in a nice warm place, being fed whenever they want to coming out into the noisy, scary outside world where the feeling of hunger is a strange one for them, big adjustment. They aren't crying to annoy you just to let you know how they are feeling like what Snacks said. Also, like what the other girls said, wrapping is a really nice thing for them, makes them feel nice and warm and secure..

It DOES get easier......:) Really it does....
Laurin xx

Hi Veronica, just wanted to check in how last night went.

Hey shell
Things went good with Avaleigh the other night. She ended up sleeping for 5 hours in between feeds so we only woke twice during the night. Must be from all the milk she had during the day! Last night was the same as well.

What I have noticed that Avaleigh cant bring up any burps during her night feeds which is making her really windy and in pain and has a really unsettled night sleep. Has anyone got any pointers on how to get a burp out of her? I try everything!! Pretty much she feeds, and then I sit her up and rub her back but by this time she is fast asleep. I also put her over my shoulder or have her tummy down on my chest and rubbing/patting back but I cant get anything out of her!

I dare say, if I was to get burps out of her during the night feeds, she wont have an unsettled sleep. Any pointers??!!

I really struggled getting burps out of Izzy too when she was breastfed - especially at night. The best "position" I found was open your legs slightly so she can sit on one thigh with her little legs dangling between yours. Then lean her forward so she is resting her weight through her sternum on your hand. Then pat her with the other hand on her back quite firmly. Like I said, I didn't have great success but this was a bit more helpful.

Izzy went through a really ratty stage about 4 weeks with lots of feeding too (and yep, you just need to keep feeding them) and had horrible colic pains. The Brauers Colic Relief worked quite well for her. I also tried the so called miracle Colic Mix from the Padbury Pharmacy but it didn't work for her.

Could Avaleigh have a bit of reflux? If she is very content sleeping while you're holding her a bit more upright but gets upset when you lie her down it could be that. Try elevating her cot/cradle a bit so she is on a slight angle and see if gravity can help her settle a bit. This helps with colic and reflux. Also, if she does have a bit of reflux or colic, then like someone above said Avaleigh could be feeding from you again shortly after a decent feed for comfort, but the extra food is aggravating her little tummy.

Good luck.

I havent really thought about Avaleigh having reflux... She has been throwing up a bit more lately than usual.. I am trying to not let her feed any sooner than 3 hrs in between feeds as I know the more she feeds the worse her colic is.

I actually have Avaleigh on the Colic Mix from Padbury and I must say it hasnt given me the results I would have hoped for! She is burping a lot better than she used to, but still keeps a lot of wind in her. I might try something else when she gets to 1 month (which is Monday!)

I guess I will look in to reflux. Is reflux diagnosed at the Drs?/ We are 2 more weeks off going for a check up with her, would it be best to go in sooner you think?

hmm well I found a pretty good website about Reflux and a lot of what it is saying, Avaleigh is displaying. I think a visit to the doctors is in order and hopefully we can get this sorted out quick smart!

I think real reflux can be over-diagnosed but from what I've been told, lots of very little bubbies can get some form of mild reflux - their little digestive systems just aren't developed enough and the valve thingy isn't strong enough to stop stomach acids rising up when they hit food. (Don't you love the technical description!!). Fortunately most babies grow out of it quite quickly.

Colic is not the same as reflux, so if its reflux that is her problem rather than colic the Padbury mix, Brauers etc won't help at all.

Definitely give the elevated cot/cradle a go - Izzy still won't sleep at all if she's completely flat. Also try to keep Avaleigh upright (on your shoulder) for a good 10 minutes after each feed to give her tummy a chance to settle. Not good when its 2am and you're desperate to get back to bed for some sleep but well worth taking the time to avoid getting up 20 minutes later. Hopefully that will give her a bit of relief until you can get to your Dr.

One final thing - reflux babies don't all throw up. Izzy has silent reflux and isn't really much of a sicky baby at all. You can hear the acids working their up her little body and see the results when she spasms and screams, but nothing usually comes out.

Hey Caro :)

Do you have any recommendations on a paed?? Do I need to go to the doctors to get a referral to a see paed or is that not needed?

Well I am feeding DD and then when she has had enough, I give it to her while she is laying down or sitting up (depends on how much she is squirming). I'm giving DD 1.2mls and i give it to her slowly. After this I will sit DD up and have her chin on my hand and my other hand supporting her back and trying to keep her straight. She will then give me some good burps. She normally burps the best when I burp her half way between a feed, (this may be because she feeds so quickly or my flow is too fast??)...

The other night she projectile vomited pretty much her whole feed out, I try and move her has gently as possible. And I would say, nearly at every feed she will have a small vomit..

About 50% of the time, DD will settle after a feed while I am holding her upright and the other times she is squirming and screaming, which I then give a dummy or walk around and she settles. She may fall asleep on me, I put her down and she might sleep for an hour before waking up again.. Also, she has started screaming right after a feed too or when she unlatches herself..


I might actually put a thread in the forum, i'd be really interested in what Scarlett or others have to say..

And Hugs to you! I hope your DD is much better now. What a scare that would be!

Hopefully it is just wind. I may go to my doctor who I have been seeing since I was a toddler and see what he says, he might recommend I go to a paed but we'll see what happens.

What do you think I should do at night cause at night DD doesnt burp at all. I have tried doing the same as I do during the day with her, but I find myself falling asleep...

Oh I agree that people who are sick should stay away.... DF's brother is sick at the moment and I have told DF to do everything possible to not get sick, but they work together.. hopefully DF wont come home with it tho

Where did you give birth? If it was a private hospital, you should have a standing referral to the paed who checked Avaleigh in hospital - the referral is for three months from her birth. So, as a starting point you could go back to that paed. Unfortunately, like Caro's experience, I wasn't overly impressed with the paed that we had, nor the GP I had taken Izzy to in our new suburb. I ended up taking Izzy back to my GP, who I know I can count on for great medical advice as well as support. So, I think your old GP is a good idea too.

Hi, Ngala,

You said " I feel like I am not satisfying Avaleigh with my milk... Dont most babies have a feed and then go to sleep??!! "
Well, strangely, no! Though I'm sure that that is what we all believe when we happily concieve our first baby.
The first 6 weeks with a new baby are hell, really, even though we love them to bits. Many mothers notice that for the first 2 weeks their babies are really quite settled. We quietly think we've made it as a mum. Then reality (and exhaustion) set in. A baby is born expecting his or her mother to be his whole environment - food, shelter, comfort, all rolled into one. Human babies are designed to feed 8-12 times in 24hrs. But that won't be in even 2-3 hrly spaces. You will find that they will have one time of the day or night where they feed almost continually for a number of hours, and another time of the day or night where they will sleep a longer stretch. At this age, 3 hrs is about as good as it ever gets. By this stage your baby should be back over her birthweight, and you should be looking for a weightgain of between 150-250g per week (but at 3 weeks, there won't be much of a pattern to go on) Babies come out hard wired to suck - it's an important thing for a baby. So they tend to suck when they want to feed, but also suck when they are tired to soothe themselves. Usually at this age it is not necessary to worry too much about burping. Most mothers almost instinctively put babies up over their shoulders between "sides" to see if they burp, but many just don't burp, and they are fine.
When they are feeding they get a bust of a hormone called CCK. This makes them sleepy (you get a burst too, and it makes you feel sleepy) They get a peak in response to succkling, and often go to sleep on the breast. But as you have found, they often wake up then, and need a bit of a top up. This is normal. They get a second peak of CCK as their food digests - hopefully they will sleep for an hour or more. But as they go through normal cycles of heavier and lighter sleep they may startle and fully wake as they come out of a sleep cycle and they can't put themselves back to sleep, yet. They need the help of their parent - patting, rocking and generally reassuring them that they are OK and mum is near.
Parenting in the early days is a lot about watching your baby, and tryig to read their signs, and caring for yourself, as the workload is tough. It sounds a bit "twee" and old fashioned as we seek for the ultimate solution to get our babies to sleep - but sleep when your baby sleeps - keep her close so she hears your breathing and your heartbeat. she will usually settle much better like that. Carry her in a sling. When she goes through a lighter sleep cycle and wakes briefly, she will register that she is with mum, and will be rocked by your movement as you go about the things you need to do, and she'll go back to sleep. Call on your support networks. Do you have friends or relatives who will be happy to drop you in a meal? Get your partner to help out with the rocking, comforting and burping. Make sure you eat well, not because your milk will suffer if you don't, but because you will feel much better if you are eating well.
Hope some of that helps. Let us know how you are going. You have lots of people hear who care about you for a start
Warm Regards
Barb

I think Barb has given you great advice (as per usual!)

I agree with Caro. I think reflux is very 'in' ATM, and is probably a bit overdiagnosed. A bit of wind pain however can sometimes be overlooked. That's not to say that every time she cries it's because she has wind :) Nicholas has a little bit of silent reflux. I don't get too bothered about it as it doesn't give him grief very often, but at times you can hear the acid coming up and down and he arches his back and screams. Sometimes you can hear the vomit coming up and down for ages, and it doesn't bother him at all. He also does small vomits after every feed, but I think this is normal.

The biggest thing that I find helps us sleep well at night is to keep him up on my shoulder for 30 minutes after his late night feed. He is usually asleep during, or straight after that feed, but I still burp him (or try to) and then keep him upright. We have had a lot less problems at night since I started doing this. I also keep him upright for awhile if he feeds during the night (which he doesn't do that much anymore). I also give him Gaviscon with his last feed, but that's to stop him choking in the night.

It's very hard with a new baby, you haven't yet worked out every little cry, and what it means. It does get better hun. And you know what, sometimes babies just cry. The might feel tired, or lonely, or who knows what, but apart from cuddle them, there's not much you can do. As long as she's fed, dry, and being cuddled, she will be fine. Everyone else around you will want to give you a reason as to why she's crying and explain what's wrong with her.........but you know best, you are her mummy!

Oh, and I'm with the others......elevate her when she's sleeping. About the height of the yellow pages should be alright! It's definitely helped us here.

When everyone says 'elevate' while sleeping, do you mean to just make sure the head bit of the mattress is elevated or have the whole mattress elevated.... that doesnt really make sense but I hope someone understands!!

DD sleeps in a bassinette so I have put towels underneath to elevate it, I have made sure it goes up at the same angle (hopefully that makes sense!) Is this OK?

Veronica, just put the head end up so she is on an incline with her head hgher than the rest of her kwim? usually just a towel under one end of the matress or even a phone book under the stand is enough.

Ngala - yep, sounds like youve done the right thing with the bassinette matress...

BTW, my DD#2 used to ALWAYS projectile vomit after some b/f feeds. It would be quite frightening seeing this little thing explode white substance out her mouth. It happened regularly in the first few weeks....looking back now, and reading Barbs advice, i think i was over feeding her. She had too much in that little tummy of hers and was just making her unsettled.

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but also suck when they are tired to soothe themselves.

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...this is what sophie wanted - she wanted to suck, but not have milk KWIM? SHe didnt take a dummy....but i guess we got over it, coz after a while, when my milk settled, so did she - and no more projectiles....!!